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Posted by: castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

Think of it this way folks, the “teleporting” that Lazarus does could be nothing more than becoming invisible, and moving about and coming out in another location. Have we seen him actually blink from one point to another? He could simply going out of phase with Tyria (as Mursaat have done) and moving from one point to another.

Yes we have seen Lazarus teleport between locations instantly. He teleports more than once in Dragon Vigil within our line of sight, and more importantly it’s instantaneous teleportation between two different spots in the same room, so it’s literally impossible for,it to have just been Lazarus slipping between worlds and coming back, and each,time he teleports, there’s the same flash of light as when he first,shows up in that,mission. So yes, we have very definite proof that Lazarus can indeed teleport.

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Posted by: MelGT.8326

MelGT.8326

I’m guessing it’s Primordus. I don’t why, I just got a vibe from the trailer.

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

Primordius is unlikely due to his size(he’d demolish Taimi’s room if took his true form) so if anything Lazarus would have to be either the Great Destroyer or Balthazar.

Of course for all we know that huge Dragon thing in the Central Transfer Chamber isn’t Primordius anymore than that Dragon Champion in Drakkar Lake was in which case Primordius could indeed take the form of Lazarus.

Of course if we are suspecting the Central Transfer Chamber Primordius of being a fake than we can suspect other things such as Primordius being Balthazar’s father that he decapitated and usurped if we so desire!

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Posted by: Feldorn.9564

Feldorn.9564

Yes we have seen Lazarus teleport between locations instantly. He teleports more than once in Dragon Vigil within our line of sight, and more importantly it’s instantaneous teleportation between two different spots in the same room, so it’s literally impossible for,it to have just been Lazarus slipping between worlds and coming back, and each,time he teleports, there’s the same flash of light as when he first,shows up in that,mission. So yes, we have very definite proof that Lazarus can indeed teleport.

Or maybe this is just a common ability that the PC also can use. (Shadowstep, Blink, Lightnings Flash…) Invisibility is also a utility the PC can easily use with well known skills. That Lazarus teleports inside one room doesn’t mean he can do the same thing from far away.

This character, whoever it turns out to be, is playing with us. It wouldn’t be that absurd if all we saw from his power thus far, was also a well planned “charade”.

I did some reading on the whole human god thingy. It’s true, you don’t get instantly blinded if you look at them. So this theory is back on the table, I guess.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

It’s obvious that whatever I say, you’re hell bent on disagreeing, as you do in pretty much every forum that isn’t yours.

So, sure. Whatever your theory is, is correct. I have no idea what your theory is, but it’s absolutely 100% correct and you know everything.

Done.

Hey man, if you can give me a reasonable explanation for why an established ally of the Pact Commander would lie to the Pact Commander (where said lie would result in the Pact Commander fighting against said established ally) while the two are in solitude, while still being an ally to the Pact Commander, then I’ll consider it plausible.

But no one has. It’s just a bunch of “OH MAN WOULDN’T IT BE COOL IF LAZARUS WAS ACTUALLY THIS GUYOHMANOHMANOHMANIT’DBESWEET!”

And in all honesty… no, it would not be sweet. It’d make no bloody sense is what it’d be.

My argument for that was that eh wants the portal to Ember Bay

Three things though:

Firstly, why though? If his goal was simply “get to Ember Bay”, why not just float over to Ember Bay? It’s been months since he’s been in Auric Basin, he could have simply “walked” over there by now – if not used White Mantle obtained methods of transport.

Secondly, the trailer shows him facing away from the asura gate. So if anything, he’d have been coming from that gate (unless he went towards it then turned away, such as if he was chasing someone out of Rata Novus).

And thirdly, isn’t that the asura gate in the dragon lab? Ergo, the one going into further Rata Novus, not Ember Bay.

And most importantly, the gate we take to Ember Bay actually has at minimum three destinations: Rata Novus Command Center, Rata Sum, and Ember Bay, so even if he was going after the one we take to Ember Bay, nothing says it is still linked to Ember Bay.

Think of it this way folks, the “teleporting” that Lazarus does could be nothing more than becoming invisible, and moving about and coming out in another location. Have we seen him actually blink from one point to another? He could simply going out of phase with Tyria (as Mursaat have done) and moving from one point to another.

Yes we have seen Lazarus teleport between locations instantly. He teleports more than once in Dragon Vigil within our line of sight, and more importantly it’s instantaneous teleportation between two different spots in the same room, so it’s literally impossible for,it to have just been Lazarus slipping between worlds and coming back, and each,time he teleports, there’s the same flash of light as when he first,shows up in that,mission. So yes, we have very definite proof that Lazarus can indeed teleport.

To be fair, there are a lot of short-ranged teleportation spells out there.

But long ranged ones are much more uncommon (if even possible without devices such as the mursaat teleporters, asura gates, exalted teleporters, etc.). We’re not sure if Lazarus would be capable of long-range teleportation. Though given how much magic he has, I wouldn’t doubt it.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: cptaylor.2670

cptaylor.2670

The same reason there are security clearances in the government. They may all have the same goal, and they may all be “allies” but that doesn’t mean they feel that that particular person without clearance is privy to certain information.

And when you think about it, if it were Livia with this theory… she’s lived for over a hundred years. How many heroes and alliances has she had in that time? She’s lived under a secret identity this entire time. How long have we known her as Anise? Whether we’ve been responsible for the fall of elder dragons or not, that doesn’t guarantee that we’re promised her trust. From a character development standpoint, it gives the character more depth than to just assume that because we’re both #teamKryta she’s going to hand us her diary or unveil a carefully crafted illusion when if her purpose was to put on the persona of a mursaat to fragment the white mantle, the white mantle isn’t actually dealt with yet.

Whether the pact commander is trusted or not, if your plan is to portray a long-dead/missing Mursaat, while the commander would obviously be able to keep the secret, it’s going to be a lot more beneficial for the commander to not know until either confronted with no other option but to reveal themselves, or they feel the task has been handled and there is no risk. If the commander speaks among the pact, even trusted members of Dragon’s Watch, and they all believe that Lazarus is truly reborn, those rumors will get back to the spies of the white mantle within Divinity’s Reach and everywhere else further strengthening the disguise.

If the pact commander knows the disguise is false, and even one of these spies hears THAT rumor, then the plan is automatically botched.

That is my point.

I’m not saying that it’s likely that any of this is the case, but you’re acting like it’s completely unreasonable that the person in the disguise would not reveal themselves to the pact commander just because they’re alone in a room when the potential job isn’t even finished yet.

As far as Rata Novus being on fire or whatever you mentioned in one of your posts, who is to say that Primordus minions aren’t wreaking havoc in the labs and that’s who they’re referring to when they say, “He’s trapped us here.”

You mention Lazarus looks menacing, but all we see is a split second of Lazarus looking down, him slightly balling up his fist for a second, and him moving towards someone with his mask on that doesn’t even have a facial expression. So how is someone menacing when we can’t even see a facial expression?

I’m just not taking everything in this trailer at face value. Sure, it may be as simple as he is evil and he is either the real Lazarus or someone with equally bad intentions, but the trailer doesn’t actually prove any of this. Just like in movie trailers where certain clips come before others to convey something to the viewer only to surprise them when they watch the actual movie and realize they were being led to a particular assumption the entire time.

Also, does it ever say how Lazarus is able to bypass the Exalted security to get into Aurene’s chamber? I guess that’s kind of irrelevant given that primordus minions got in though.

Not sure why Lazarus wouldn’t be able to teleport if Mursaat are able to phase themselves in and out. Seems like teleporting within the same realm would be cake at that point.

Still don’t think Lazarus is really trying to get back to Ember Bay though. He seems like he’s going for whatever machine that is, probably Omaad’s, in that screenshot. What he plans to do with, I have no clue. But whoever this is, if not an ally, is clearly out for power. And I would expect a machine that allows you to view or potentially alter things within the eternal alchemy to be a key to obtaining even more power.

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Posted by: Feldorn.9564

Feldorn.9564

Also, does it ever say how Lazarus is able to bypass the Exalted security to get into Aurene’s chamber? I guess that’s kind of irrelevant given that primordus minions got in though.

Short after our arrival, the magical barrier that is protecting the chamber has fallen or was disturbed by something/someone. Thats how the destroyers and Lazarus got in.

But we don’t know yet if Lazarus brought them to this place or not. We don’t even know why the barrier was weakened in the first place. (And until today, none GW2 character did care enough about it to put in some research.) Maybe Aurene absorbed a bit of the surrounding magic and thats why.

(edited by Feldorn.9564)

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

But long ranged ones are much more uncommon (if even possible without devices such as the mursaat teleporters, asura gates, exalted teleporters, etc.). We’re not sure if Lazarus would be capable of long-range teleportation. Though given how much magic he has, I wouldn’t doubt it.

There are long range teleportations. In lake Doric we can see watchwork knights teleporting in and out to fight champion jades via mesmer magic. As we don’t see any watchknights stationed in Doric, it is logical to presume that they are teleported from Divinity Reach. So teleports without any kind of beacons over (minimum) several miles away are possible to powerful mesmers.

(edited by Ider.1276)

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Posted by: castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

Or maybe this is just a common ability that the PC also can use. (Shadowstep, Blink, Lightnings Flash…) Invisibility is also a utility the PC can easily use with well known skills. That Lazarus teleports inside one room doesn’t mean he can do the same thing from far away.

This character, whoever it turns out to be, is playing with us. It wouldn’t be that absurd if all we saw from his power thus far, was also a well planned “charade”.

I did some reading on the whole human god thingy. It’s true, you don’t get instantly blinded if you look at them. So this theory is back on the table, I guess.

While Konig also mentioned the first point about short ranged teleports, it was in response to someone asking “does Lazarus actually teleport?”, to which the answer is “absolutely”. Short ranged teleports DO exist, I fully acknowledge that, and it’s not surprising that someone of Lazarus’ power has access to them. But I entirely disagree with the “Lazarus used invisibility to access the egg chamber”, because the designers actively chose to use the same energy flash animation for every time Lazarus teleported in Dragon Vigil, including his very first appearance in the egg chamber. So by all indication provided by the developers, Lazarus teleported into the egg chamber from some unknown distance. I personally assume it was at least some distance outside of Tarir since his appearance essentially raises no alarms (though there is a significant amount of time difference between the egg chambers system shutting down and Lazarus appearing, and we know both Caithe and Marjory are busy fighting off destroyers, so it’s not off the table that the rest of the exalted were simply busy with destroyers and Lazarus snuck in somehow, there’s also the possibility of Lazarus using the mursaat’s technique of slipping between worlds to at least get closer to the egg chamber if he truly is a mursaat), however I can see arguments for him teleporting from within Tarir.

Also, it’s absolutely absurd to assume that Lazarus’ power is a charade, because he absorbed the power of an exploding bloodstone. We have definite proof of that all over Bloodstone Fen and in Lazarus’ introduction too (Lazarus was glowing red when he first appeared to the player character). Then there’s Lazarus’ ability to one hit kill a sizeable number of enemies (both in his introduction with all the White Mantle he slays AND in Dragon Vigil when he first appears, wiping out the entire wave of destroyers in a single spellcast) alongside Lazarus empowering the Commander with “Spectral Smite”. There’s simply too much indication of Lazarus being someone with an overwhelming amount of power for it to have been a charade.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

If the pact commander knows the disguise is false, and even one of these spies hears THAT rumor, then the plan is automatically botched.

That is my point.

Sure, I could see that, but wouldn’t the fact that Lazarus’ revival failed in of itself “automatically botch” the plan by your argument?

Not only for those who know about switching the relic spreading such information, but those who performed the ritual to revive Lazarus, had any survived the time period (neither Caudecus nor “Lazarus” could have predicted the raid group’s success against Xera so accurately, and it’d be hard to predict the group of mercenaries (as called in-game) even assaulting the Stronghold of the Faithful in the first place).

And for that matter, who among our allies would know of a highly secretive ritual performed by the higher echelons of the White Mantle? I suppose E and Anise might, but could they also know that the ritual failed and react within a matter of days to perform such a plot (according to the journals, Bauer’s “supreme leader” with “virtuous pursuits” arrived in the area in 2 Zephyr, but Matthias died “recently” per a journal on 13 Zephyr, indicating that whomever “Lazarus” is had been working on the plan since shortly before raid wing 2 happened).

Though thinking of it, that kind of implies that “Lazarus” had been around before the ritual was even attempted, let alone interrupted, giving much more credence to him being a fake. But still, who could have predicted, allied or not, that a group of mercenaries would cease the ritual thus giving an unknown air to the White Mantle as to whether or not Lazarus lives?

This implies that the plan only needed to last long enough to absorb the bloodstone, and anything after that was just taking advantage of new situations.

As far as Rata Novus being on fire or whatever you mentioned in one of your posts, who is to say that Primordus minions aren’t wreaking havoc in the labs and that’s who they’re referring to when they say, “He’s trapped us here.”

Maybe, but given the lack of gender to all destroyers, the line is unlikely to refer to a destroyer lieutenant over Lazarus.

Plus [there’s this image](http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/LW3_E5_Teaser_021-1024x576.jpg) which is definitely made to make it like Lazarus is attacking.

You mention Lazarus looks menacing, but all we see is a split second of Lazarus looking down, him slightly balling up his fist for a second, and him moving towards someone with his mask on that doesn’t even have a facial expression. So how is someone menacing when we can’t even see a facial expression?

Erm, being menacing is not just a facial expression… its entire body movement. Lazarus’ slow glide while looking down on others is definitely such, but so is him before that purple crystal spell with Kasmeer and Marjory on the other side of said spell. Then there’s this image, which shows him before the PC and others.

Granted, Lazarus’ very posture is innately menacing to be truthful.

Also, does it ever say how Lazarus is able to bypass the Exalted security to get into Aurene’s chamber? I guess that’s kind of irrelevant given that primordus minions got in though.

The barrier was keeping everyone in, but when the destroyers show up even Marjory and Caithe are fighting inside the chamber (just not in the middle with you, as you can see during the mission).
But what went wrong was never addressed.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Not sure why Lazarus wouldn’t be able to teleport if Mursaat are able to phase themselves in and out. Seems like teleporting within the same realm would be cake at that point.

Honestly, it likely depends on what “phasing themselves out of reality” means from a technical standpoint, and if Lazarus is actually a mursaat or not. And there’s bound to be limitations on this teleportation, otherwise they’d have never needed these to invade the Southern Shiverpeaks in GW1. Of course, with the power of a bloodstone at hand, who knows what more he could do than mursaat, real or fake.

Still don’t think Lazarus is really trying to get back to Ember Bay though. He seems like he’s going for whatever machine that is, probably Omaad’s, in that screenshot. What he plans to do with, I have no clue. But whoever this is, if not an ally, is clearly out for power. And I would expect a machine that allows you to view or potentially alter things within the eternal alchemy to be a key to obtaining even more power.

Not sure about the power bit, but I agree with the rest.

There are long range teleportations. In lake Doric we can see watchwork knights teleporting in and out to fight champion jades via mesmer magic. As we don’t see any watchknights stationed in Doric, it is logical to presume that they are teleported from Divinity Reach. So teleports without any kind of beacons over (minimum) several miles away are possible to powerful mesmers.

When I say “long range” I’m thinking trans-regional. My mind was on the discussion of him going for Abaddon’s Mouth bloodstone and the idea of “why not just teleport there” as a concept. If he wanted to go there, then using an asura gate that goes nearby is certainly a shortcut, giving reason to go to Rata Novus – or Rata Sum, or Salvation Pass for that matter.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Feldorn.9564

Feldorn.9564

Then there’s Lazarus’ ability to one hit kill a sizeable number of enemies (both in his introduction with all the White Mantle he slays AND in Dragon Vigil when he first appears, wiping out the entire wave of destroyers in a single spellcast) alongside Lazarus empowering the Commander with “Spectral Smite”. There’s simply too much indication of Lazarus being someone with an overwhelming amount of power for it to have been a charade.

Well, queen Jennah did something similar in the last episode. Not all at once, but she was playing at the time with some enemies.

I want to point out, that I really enjoy this discussion right now. I hope one of us turns out to be right at the end

(edited by Feldorn.9564)

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Posted by: castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

Well, queen Jennah did something similar in the last episode. Not all at once, but she was playing at the time with some enemies.

I want to point out, that I really enjoy this discussion right now. I hope one of us turns out to be right at the end

Queen Jennah put a giant glamour to cover the city and killed three White Mantle members, one at a time. Lazarus wiped out at least a dozen enemies with a single wave of his hand, twice. Queen Jennah is ultimately a more defensive minded person than Lazarus has been at any point in his appearances in season 3. Also, different forms of magic. We don’t know what the purple aura surrounding Lazarus is at this moment in time, but for me I don’t see any proof that Jennah is Lazarus and I see all the proof why Lazarus absolutely cannot be Jennah (if that is indeed what you’re attempting to point out, if not I apologise).

Also yeah this has been a great discussion.

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Queen Jennah put a giant glamour to cover the city and killed three White Mantle members, one at a time. Lazarus wiped out at least a dozen enemies with a single wave of his hand, twice.

But not while maintaining a giant, city-sized glamour.

Consider the play for power from Jennah in “Meeting of Ministers”. You could take it at face value and count it as being a defensive move. But I’ve watched Star Wars far too many times and I simply cannot resist drawing parallel to Palpatine. So I’m kind of waiting for a reveal about Jennah as well. Now, could the two reveals coincide?

I certainly do not dismiss this possibility. Again, it’s probably my Star Wars view count. But if Jennah was to pull this stunt off and pretend to be Lazarus, she’d end up playing on both sides, at least in regards to Krytan politics.

The actual weak point of this theory isn’t that Jennah can’t be Lazarus, it’s why would she be interested in Aurene and go to Rata Novus. Well. Unless she’s Kralkatorrik’s minion, but that’s quite a stretch.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Then there’s this image, which shows him before the PC and others.

Where does this screenshot come from? I rewatched trailer again and didn’t find anything alike. I am interested because on your screenshot Lazarus doesn’t have his mursaat wings.

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Posted by: Arden.7480

Arden.7480

Then there’s this image, which shows him before the PC and others.

Where does this screenshot come from? I rewatched trailer again and didn’t find anything alike. I am interested because on your screenshot Lazarus doesn’t have his mursaat wings.

http://massivelyop.com/2017/04/25/guild-wars-2-announces-flashpoint-living-story-episode-price-drop-for-heart-of-thorns/

i seems massiveop could get more pictures from Flashpoint.

“The Elder Dragon is no more”

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Posted by: castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

But not while maintaining a giant, city-sized glamour.

Consider the play for power from Jennah in “Meeting of Ministers”. You could take it at face value and count it as being a defensive move. But I’ve watched Star Wars far too many times and I simply cannot resist drawing parallel to Palpatine. So I’m kind of waiting for a reveal about Jennah as well. Now, could the two reveals coincide?

I certainly do not dismiss this possibility. Again, it’s probably my Star Wars view count. But if Jennah was to pull this stunt off and pretend to be Lazarus, she’d end up playing on both sides, at least in regards to Krytan politics.

The actual weak point of this theory isn’t that Jennah can’t be Lazarus, it’s why would she be interested in Aurene and go to Rata Novus. Well. Unless she’s Kralkatorrik’s minion, but that’s quite a stretch.

You still have the issue of them using entirely different forms of magic. So that is a very weak point to the argument, so much so that the Lazarus = Jennah theory has no substance. Jennah could not have led the White Mantle in any way, shape, or form considering the myriad of attempts on Jennah’s life by the White Mantle and their constant attempts on her life which, in no way, mimics Palpatine. The only time Palpatine was in danger was when Count Dooku had ‘captured’ Palpatine at the beginning of episode 3, when Anakin and Obi-wan were sent in to get him back. Count Dooku was an apprentice of Darth Sidious, aka Palpatine, so he was never in any real danger. Palpatine ALSO had the benefit of nobody knowing he had force capabilities, which Jennah does not have the luxury of, since everyone and their mother knows queen Jennah has mesmer training. Queen Jennah also had a problem that Palpatine never had, which was a significantly larger threat than she could ever make the White Mantle out to be. The White Mantle ARE dangerous, very much so, but the comparison between the White Mantle and the potentially world ending threat of the elder dragons is significantly different, by many, many factors. Queen Jennah mimicking Palpatine at THIS exact moment makes no sense in the slightest, even considering the fact that the elder dragons weren’t active and nobody knew the elder dragons would eat up each others domains, because they still existed and were still undefeated. The comparison fails on many fronts and doesn’t make any sense story wise except for an extremely poorly thought out “gotcha” moment.

There is no case for causing the start of an extremely resource and man-power intensive civil war (on both sides I might add) during the threat of the elder dragons, especially when two elder dragons become active at the same time, with a possible two more elder dragons who could become empowered beyond belief after the first two are dealt with or could become a threat NOW and probably crush the living races between them all, in order to more solidly secure yourself as the sole ruler of Kryta. It doesn’t fit.

That isn’t to say Queen Jennah isn’t hiding something from us. Jennah hiding something from the commander, especially a non-human commander, is quite obvious. However, I don’t see any secret Jennah (or any other ruling body) coming up as even mildly important, considering the Pale Tree’s secret about the origin of the sylvari being such a huge reveal and huge plot point this recently in the story, and rehashing a recently used storyline isn’t truly good storytelling, especially when there are plenty of other storylines that GW2 has already set up that we could be going with instead (Livia, Wizards tower, Magdaer and other important artifacts, the not as revered Spirits of the Wild, anything and everything about the elder races, the other continents, the true meaning of the anti-kytheria and several, several others).

I see it as a distinct impossibility that Jennah has anything to do with the White Mantle, bandits, separatists or the crazy members of the circus. (There’s also the absorbing an exploding bloodstone feat, which no member of the playable races has the capability of pulling off, especially since it took Kormir the blessing of five human gods to pull off the same with Abaddon’s power)