Guild Wars 2

The previous attempt was deleted without any explanation I would understand so I will try another time, but now I will be as brief as possible to minimize a chance to write something which would cause this to be deleted:

Remove NPCs Marjory Delaqua and Kasmeed Meade from the game. They are very unlikable and annoying. Also many people I meet ingame do not like them, so I think that this step would be welcome by many.

I don’t like Rytlock, he should be removed from the game with no explanation.

Lazaar.9123:

I don’t like Rytlock, he should be removed from the game with no explanation.

Be just and make it the whole DE. But they DID have a chance to make some likeable NPCs in the living story and Delaqua with Meade are such a critical fail. Everytime I run into them during the LS which is pretty often they make me mad.

I disagree, something should not be removed from the storyline just because some people do not like it, in their opinion.

Hmm, funny you just said you wanted to have Rytlock removed, and I agree with you because he is a militarist warmonger as many other charr. Now you disagree with yourself?

I would say the writers need some kind of a feedback. There should be a poll ingame to let people vote if they liked a friendly NPC (or hated antagonist NPC).

Hint: It was sarcasm.

Hmm. So you in fact LIKE Rytlock, and for some odd reason you expect me to like him as well? :O I would never expect that.
Is it the fact I hate Delaqua and Meade what makes you believe I should like Rytlock (!) for some reason? Why?

Actually, my point of it was that there are people out there that like Marjory and Kasmeer, and they should not be suddenly cut out of the story just because some other people do not like it. It is all a matter of opinion.

OK, this is a valid point. But I still don’t understand what does Rytlock have to do with that. Is it because he is one of the few male NPCs in the game who is not somehow controlled by a female NPC? But never mind.

Rytlock has nothing to do with anything. He just chose a random NPC to illustrate that many people have differing tastes when it comes to NPCs. Just like with people IRL you will like some and dislike others.

If we started removing NPCs some people dislike, we might someday wake up in a NPC-less game.

Is this real life?

Removing them may be too much but I think that their relationship is pushed much more than desired into the story. Personally I am more interested in Mordremoth and saving Tyria than listening about their relationship. But that’s just me and I am sure that the devs will make a very interesting story for HoT

So what is it exactly about Kasmeer and Marjory that you hate? You should let us know in detail so we can decide how seriously to take your suggestion!

I would take it one step further: remove all the “Bore-conics” and their writers.

Fext.3614:

The previous attempt was deleted without any explanation I would understand so I will try another time, but now I will be as brief as possible to minimize a chance to write something which would cause this to be deleted:

Remove NPCs Marjory Delaqua and Kasmeed Meade from the game. They are very unlikable and annoying. Also many people I meet ingame do not like them, so I think that this step would be welcome by many.

Hm, I kind of like them; their dialogue is sort of amusing and slightly whimsical, and yet they provide enough guidance to help me advance the mission I’m on without too much trouble. So please keep them around.

I got a petition of my own: More Evon Gnashblade!

Xiahou Mao.9701:

So what is it exactly about Kasmeer and Marjory that you hate? You should let us know in detail so we can decide how seriously to take your suggestion!

OK, let me explain.
Do this mental excersise: take Marjory Delaqua and swap her for a male, say a daredevil investigator named Marty d’Eau. Now replay all the dialogues between our Marty and Kasmeer, namely the dialogues related to their relationship.
Do you really like their relationship?
From my point of view, with the lesbian glamour gone, we are left with pretty much abusive relationship, which is not much about love, but about dependency and possession.
I don’t know if there was an intent to show a bad relationship, but I doubt it. This prejudice, that only these who are able to do a service to others or, even better, those who are “keeping their loved ones alive”, can get laid, is twisted to the extreme, yet, sadly, very widespread. It is a model of relationship from the patriarchal society, where the wife depens on her husband in everything and is, practically, dead without their kind protection. Like Kasmeer removed from Marjory custody.

Usualy when you run into some gender /equality issue (and this game suffers from it) the rule of thumb how to get a good point of view is to mentally swap genders of main protagonist. This way you can evaluate, for example, the relationship between, say, devout guardian Megan Thackeray, who deeply loves king John The Barefoot, and the complicated bond between freeminded adventurer Styr Egalkin and his daughter Beryl Styrdottir, who didnot knew who was her father until she was seven, since Styr let her alone with her mother and did not bother to show up… etc., etc.

KyreneZA.8617:

I would take it one step further: remove all the “Bore-conics” and their writers.

Well I’m behind you in the first statement, concerning the other one, well not all of them. But what they need is some feedback they obviously sorely miss and the best way how to get a feedback would be through some ingame poll.

Fext.3614:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

So what is it exactly about Kasmeer and Marjory that you hate? You should let us know in detail so we can decide how seriously to take your suggestion!

OK, let me explain.
Do this mental excersise: take Marjory Delaqua and swap her for a male, say a daredevil investigator named Marty d’Eau. Now replay all the dialogues between our Marty and Kasmeer, namely the dialogues related to their relationship.
Do you really like their relationship?
From my point of view, with the lesbian glamour gone, we are left with pretty much abusive relationship, which is not much about love, but about dependency and possession.
I don’t know if there was an intent to show a bad relationship, but I doubt it. This prejudice, that only these who are able to do a service to others or, even better, those who are “keeping their loved ones alive”, can get laid, is twisted to the extreme, yet, sadly, very widespread. It is a model of relationship from the patriarchal society, where the wife depens on her husband in everything and is, practically, dead without their kind protection. Like Kasmeer removed from Marjory custody.

Usualy when you run into some gender /equality issue (and this game suffers from it) the rule of thumb how to get a good point of view is to mentally swap genders of main protagonist. This way you can evaluate, for example, the relationship between, say, devout guardian Megan Thackeray, who deeply loves king John The Barefoot, and the complicated bond between freeminded adventurer Styr Egalkin and his daughter Beryl Styrdottir, who didnot knew who was her father until she was seven, since Styr let her alone with her mother and did not bother to show up… etc., etc.

A heterosexual relationship is not the same thing as a homosexual relationship. The fact that you’re suggesting we view a homosexual relationship through a heterosexual lens to figure out whether or not it is ‘healthy’ or ‘acceptable’ is oppressive and degrading.

I personally don’t see anything abusive about their relationship and you’ve failed to provide valid evidence that would suggest as much, so your post comes across as homophobic which is probably why it was deleted in the first place.

Nothing about their relationship shows ‘dependency’ or ‘possession’, at least not in the unhealthy light you’re suggesting. Part of the great thing about being in love with someone is that you can depend on them, Kasmeer and Marjory have both gone through some really tough things during the course of their lives and it’s great that they can depend on one another. Kasmeer has been able to rely on Marjory for emotional assistance with her family/nobility situation, and Marjory has equally been able to rely on Kasmeer when her sister Belinda was killed. There is mutual reliance going on there, which is pretty standard to any kind of human relationship, what on earth do you think is so unhealthy about that?

Just bigots hating on our funny lesbians :S .

Please remove Taimi from the game. I feel she is utterly annoying and adds nothing to the game or the story.

While we’re at it, please also remove Primordius from the game, or what little there is of him and his minions. It is a complete waste to have any mention of him at all when there has been almost no use of anything outside of what existed at launch.

And can you remove miniatures? They don’t do anything other than give me messages about how my miniature isn’t visible anymore due to high population levels.

Astralporing.1957:

If we started removing NPCs some people dislike, we might someday wake up in a NPC-less game.

I’m actually almost okay with that. Then make it so players need to create everything from crafting materials, and the only source of them are players who throw on a vendor flag in cities within designated posting areas.

I actually hate all npcs. We should remove all of them. Also, those monster keep attacking me, and I don’t like that either. Let’s get rid of monsters. And the world bosses too. Just give me loot for showing up in the map. Actually, let’s get rid of maps, I don’t like all that walking around. Crafting’s boring, let’s get rid of that, too.

They need to remove everything that I collide with ingame while fighting. I hate having a sudden intimate contact with a rock when me and a champ are trying to work out our relationship.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

If we started removing NPCs some people dislike, we might someday wake up in a NPC-less game.

I’m actually almost okay with that. Then make it so players need to create everything from crafting materials, and the only source of them are players who throw on a vendor flag in cities within designated posting areas.

Ah, but then we’d go into Phase Two of the Great Plan: removing the players someone dislikes.

Fext.3614:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

So what is it exactly about Kasmeer and Marjory that you hate? You should let us know in detail so we can decide how seriously to take your suggestion!

OK, let me explain.
Do this mental excersise: take Marjory Delaqua and swap her for a male, say a daredevil investigator named Marty d’Eau. Now replay all the dialogues between our Marty and Kasmeer, namely the dialogues related to their relationship.
Do you really like their relationship?
From my point of view, with the lesbian glamour gone, we are left with pretty much abusive relationship, which is not much about love, but about dependency and possession.
I don’t know if there was an intent to show a bad relationship, but I doubt it. This prejudice, that only these who are able to do a service to others or, even better, those who are “keeping their loved ones alive”, can get laid, is twisted to the extreme, yet, sadly, very widespread. It is a model of relationship from the patriarchal society, where the wife depens on her husband in everything and is, practically, dead without their kind protection. Like Kasmeer removed from Marjory custody.

Usualy when you run into some gender /equality issue (and this game suffers from it) the rule of thumb how to get a good point of view is to mentally swap genders of main protagonist. This way you can evaluate, for example, the relationship between, say, devout guardian Megan Thackeray, who deeply loves king John The Barefoot, and the complicated bond between freeminded adventurer Styr Egalkin and his daughter Beryl Styrdottir, who didnot knew who was her father until she was seven, since Styr let her alone with her mother and did not bother to show up… etc., etc.

I dunno how you got abusive relationship out of this. And the rule of thumb is entirely wrong as each relationship should examined on its own merits. The rule of thumb makes for such a generic analysis as to make any conclusion from it largely meaningless.

Kasmeer and Marjory’s relationship was originally born out of Marjory’s support for Kasmeer. The prospect of loss of each other made that relationship bear fruit. The subsequent loss of Belinda and Kasmeer’s rediscovered strength switched the roles around. Their individual tragedies made their relationship one founded on mutual support for each other.

It’s kinda short sighted to not look at the whole picture

“All I want is for gw2 to provide absolutely everything that I personally enjoy, while excluding content that appeals to people who aren’t me!”

Fext, you and your friends aren’t everyone who plays the game, and the fact that there are people who dislike the characters doesn’t mean that nobody likes them.

Fext.3614:

OK, let me explain.
Do this mental excersise: take Marjory Delaqua and swap her for a male, say a daredevil investigator named Marty d’Eau. Now replay all the dialogues between our Marty and Kasmeer, namely the dialogues related to their relationship.
Do you really like their relationship?
From my point of view, with the lesbian glamour gone, we are left with pretty much abusive relationship, which is not much about love, but about dependency and possession.
I don’t know if there was an intent to show a bad relationship, but I doubt it. This prejudice, that only these who are able to do a service to others or, even better, those who are “keeping their loved ones alive”, can get laid, is twisted to the extreme, yet, sadly, very widespread. It is a model of relationship from the patriarchal society, where the wife depens on her husband in everything and is, practically, dead without their kind protection. Like Kasmeer removed from Marjory custody.

Usualy when you run into some gender /equality issue (and this game suffers from it) the rule of thumb how to get a good point of view is to mentally swap genders of main protagonist. This way you can evaluate, for example, the relationship between, say, devout guardian Megan Thackeray, who deeply loves king John The Barefoot, and the complicated bond between freeminded adventurer Styr Egalkin and his daughter Beryl Styrdottir, who didnot knew who was her father until she was seven, since Styr let her alone with her mother and did not bother to show up… etc., etc.

I don’t know, I still don’t get it. You call it an ‘abusive relationship’, and I don’t know that I’ve seen any cases of dependency or possession involving those two. Kasmeer has needed to lean on Marjory sometimes, and more recently with Belinda dying Marjory has been withdrawing and Kasmeer has been worried for her. I’m not sure where the ‘abuse’ comes in. And I’m not sure what the gender of the characters has to do with anything.

I’m also not sure why your example of gender swapping swaps only Marjory into ‘Marty’, but all the subsequent examples of gender swapping you give are swapping the genders of multiple characters. Why can’t Marty Delaqua be romancing Kenneth Meade? I don’t know, maybe I just don’t get where you’re coming from.

I don’t think anyone should be removed, there are some people you will like and dislike. I think the major problem is the dialogue or chemistry between all npcs, it seems lifeless, blah and not all that interesting as you wait for it to be done, and i really feel that way for any of the dialogue I’ve listen to there hasn’t been anything that really make me want to focus completely on the dialogue and it is more “are you done yet?” which is sad since I really like lore and back stories
And it has always been that even back in beta the voice acting just never struck with me.. Of course that’s is just my opinion and I’m sure someone will come and say it is the best they have read/heard.

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

If we started removing NPCs some people dislike, we might someday wake up in a NPC-less game.

I’m actually almost okay with that. Then make it so players need to create everything from crafting materials, and the only source of them are players who throw on a vendor flag in cities within designated posting areas.

Ah, but then we’d go into Phase Two of the Great Plan: removing the players someone dislikes.

They already removed me

FlamingFoxx.1305:

A heterosexual relationship is not the same thing as a homosexual relationship. The fact that you’re suggesting we view a homosexual relationship through a heterosexual lens to figure out whether or not it is ‘healthy’ or ‘acceptable’ is oppressive and degrading.

This statement is as false as offensive, since homosexual love is in all aspects equal to the heterosexual love.
Also, your post is nothing but a personal attack, and as such not worthy replying, but it illustrates an important point:

you put a lesbian label on any crappy writing, and suddenly it becames sacred and out of reach of any criticism, and everybody who dares to criticise is immediatelly called a bigot and homophobe.

Fext.3614:

you put a lesbian label on any crappy writing, and suddenly it becames sacred and out of reach of any criticism, and everybody who dares to criticise is immediatelly called a bigot and homophobe.

Haha, just like real life isn’kitten Some are just more equal…

Anyway, on topic:

I did not find the relationship of those two abusive or in any way something that is out of the ordinary. And to be honest, I would have liked them so much more if they would have had anything outside the “normal” relationship pattern. Kinda sick with black & white personality characters.

Edit: please stop with the “isn’t 1t” filters.

Fext.3614:

you put a lesbian label on any crappy writing, and suddenly it becames sacred and out of reach of any criticism, and everybody who dares to criticise is immediatelly called a bigot and homophobe.

Well, it works for a lot of things. All they have to do is say “you’re not the target audience” and suddenly you can’t bash on Twilight, or Hunger Games, or My Little Pony. Or Fifty Shades of Grey.

Now, let’s be honest, you’re coming off now for having other reasons than bad writing of wanting them gone. Especially with some of the tone of later replies, you’re coming off as though you want them gone because you feel offended by them.

I feel offended by most of the asura. I especially am offended by Zojja, since she talks down to just about everyone. And everyone seems to like her for being voiced by Felicia Day. (Me? I don’t care, I find Ms. Day unimpressive after watching her on Tabletop.)

Guess what? I’m not campaigning several times to try to get the asura removed. I may make sarcastic and silly comments about it but I don’t have nearly the amount of vitriol you’re demonstrating for two characters who . . . while not being amazing or completely interesting . . . aren’t nearly the heart of the problem with the characterization.

I’ve said it before, the problem with the story is how it’s paced, and how it’s presented. It’s lacking because there’s not enough lateral development to these characters we could be seeing. Destiny’s Edge had some of that going on in the early personal story, which is the only reason I’m not on the “I Hate Logan Fanclub” mailing list. (He is hilarious at times, and shows some sense when not talking about Rytlock. And he gets over his crap after Citadel of Flame.)

The B-iconics? They’re just not given enough work outside of Rox and Braham. Marjory and Kasmeer both suffer there from being out of focus for the larger part of Season 1.

That’s the problem with these characters. Much the same as the biggest problem with Trahearne . . . is the voice director who gave a pass to that wooden-sounding line read. But his second biggest problem was not existing for 4 of 5 races until he suddenly shows up on Claw Island.

I’ve noticed this pattern that people hate on human NPCs because it’s so trendy and when you ask what the problem is, they bring up some whacky explanations about bad writing and whatnot.

They don’t get enough focus to be fleshed out but honestly, i bet 9 out of 10 players never read the few lines in the story anyway. I kept hearing about “oh my, wall of text BORING” during missions where you had to read 3-4 lines of text… Most just click on the cute little icon to go through dialogues as fast as possible.

serenke.4806:

I’ve noticed this pattern that people hate on human NPCs because it’s so trendy and when you ask what the problem is, they bring up some whacky explanations about bad writing and whatnot.

They don’t get enough focus to be fleshed out but honestly, i bet 9 out of 10 players never read the few lines in the story anyway. I kept hearing about “oh my, wall of text BORING” during missions where you had to read 3-4 lines of text… Most just click on the cute little icon to go through dialogues as fast as possible.

It’s not like fleshing them out is hard work, exactly.

. . . but it does run into eating up development time, and that’s a problem when you’re trying to meet that two week cycle.

Fext.3614:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

So what is it exactly about Kasmeer and Marjory that you hate? You should let us know in detail so we can decide how seriously to take your suggestion!

From my point of view, with the lesbian glamour gone, we are left with pretty much abusive relationship, which is not much about love, but about dependency and possession.

Congratulations! #golf clap You have just described literally every single relationship (hetero or homosexual) in the history of the universe! “Love” goes hand in hand with ‘dependency and possession’. The only thing is you somehow equate this to ‘abuse’? Has this to do with lack of experience with relationships? I don’t know, that’s not for here.

And you know, additionally as a gay man who has actually had relationships, I certainly know what know what I’m talking about.

Nice to know that I’m ‘glamorous’ just because of my sexual preference though! Or does that only apply to lesbians?

You’re really not going the best way about this now are you? Getting rid of them would cause more problems. Don’t get me wrong, Kasmeer kittens me up the wall (that’s primary because her Mesmeric powers make me feel useless as a Mesmer player myself), so I’m not bias. But at least my reasoning for her ticking me off makes some sense.

kylwilson.9137:

Congratulations! #golf clap You have just described literally every single relationship (hetero or homosexual) in the history of the universe! “Love” goes hand in hand with ‘dependency and possession’. The only thing is you somehow equate this to ‘abuse’? Has this to do with lack of experience with relationships? I don’t know, that’s not for here.

Uhm… maybe in the world of S&M yes, but otherwise not really. “Dependency and posession” do not make for a healthy relationship tbh.

I kinda agree with OP but for other reasons. I think they add NOTHING to the story except more drama.

I like Kasmeer and Marjory, they add some interesting point of view to the game, not everything is perfect and nice, they have their weaknesses and problems.
please explain what is wrong with the cutscene where Belinda entered Marjory’s sword?
In my opinion destiny’s edge 2 is a lot better then the original one.
They are not flashed out enough but i see it as a marker for future development, something to build upon. For me season 2 is a bit darker then the original gw2 and i hope that Anet will continue in this road.

Another thing why do you think that every character should be likable?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Astralporing.1957:

If we started removing NPCs some people dislike, we might someday wake up in a NPC-less game.

I’m actually almost okay with that. Then make it so players need to create everything from crafting materials, and the only source of them are players who throw on a vendor flag in cities within designated posting areas.

gods no…
Lion’s Arch would look like every Korean MMO grinder with sparkly kitten signs and “cheap cheap prices” that run 10000 gold for white items.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now, let’s be honest, you’re coming off now for having other reasons than bad writing of wanting them gone. Especially with some of the tone of later replies, you’re coming off as though you want them gone because you feel offended by them.

Yeah. You’ve got a very valid point here.
Maybe this anti B-iconics crusade is just some way of me trying to find out why every encounter with the “good guys” NPCs in the game, be it with A-iconics or B-iconics makes me mad.
I’m sure it is not the gay thing. And by “sure” I mean sure… for reasons of my own. And after all, Logan & Jennah are as straight as you like and I hate them all the same. I just had a chance to stay away from them recently.
Maybe it is just something like the Elminster syndrome of old AD&D times.

Well enough of it… just give me the skip button, devs, and I’m OK.

I dislike Kasmeer. Marjory can stay.

Kasmeer’s lines are poorly written, her character lacks depth, the voice actor does not correctly elicit emotion with voice tone, and she’s just so annoying.

I was really hoping that Kasmeer would get killed, rather than the “invented just to be killed” Belinda.

Fext.3614:

Yeah. You’ve got a very valid point here.
Maybe this anti B-iconics crusade is just some way of me trying to find out why every encounter with the “good guys” NPCs in the game, be it with A-iconics or B-iconics makes me mad.
I’m sure it is not the gay thing. And by “sure” I mean sure… for reasons of my own. And after all, Logan & Jennah are as straight as you like and I hate them all the same. I just had a chance to stay away from them recently.
Maybe it is just something like the Elminster syndrome of old AD&D times.

Well enough of it… just give me the skip button, devs, and I’m OK.

. . . it’s not like the Elminster thing, because that was highly dependent on how your resident GM handled that. Which is often poorly. D&D was one of those times where you were not limited by what the writers were putting in place, you could do what you wanted.

It’s just that a lot of GMs for Forgotten Realms did not understand how to use those high-power NPCs.

i want scarlet back, she really needs more attention

sorudo.9054:

i want scarlet back, she really needs more attention

Memories… oh, memories.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . it’s not like the Elminster thing, because that was highly dependent on how your resident GM handled that. Which is often poorly. D&D was one of those times where you were not limited by what the writers were putting in place, you could do what you wanted.

Still, people hated him with passion. I never dmastered anything set in FR, and neither played iirc. Yet I somehow KNEW Elminster sucks. Might be the same mechanism behind him being so annoying – that he was a personal pet of one of the writers…

Fext.3614:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . it’s not like the Elminster thing, because that was highly dependent on how your resident GM handled that. Which is often poorly. D&D was one of those times where you were not limited by what the writers were putting in place, you could do what you wanted.

Still, people hated him with passion. I never dmastered anything set in FR, and neither played iirc. Yet I somehow KNEW Elminster sucks. Might be the same mechanism behind him being so annoying – that he was a personal pet of one of the writers…

We’re gonna have a problem.

See, let’s agree people hated him with a passion. People hate Drizzt Do’Urden with a passion. People hate Bilbo Baggins with a passion. The problem is always cited as the same: “poorly written”, without further explanation. That’s a problem because it means there’s no way to actually refute the assertion, since there’s no substance to the complaint.

Saying “Bilbo Baggins is poorly written, because he spends most of the book doing nothing but making trouble for the rest of the dwarves until suddenly in the third act he starts becoming useful to the point of making the dwarves look useless” is something which can be argued against, or discussed.

Saying “Kasmeer and Marjory are poorly written and should exit stage left out of the story ASAP” . . . doesn’t give anything to discuss.

(And by the way, Ed Greenwood personal pet NPC was not Elminster. It was Mirt the Moneylender.)

So OP what about people who like Marjory and Kasmeer. Why should Anet remove something from the game, just because you don’t like it?

I happen to like at least Marjory, and have ever since that really cool film noir cut scene at the Dead End Pub.

I wouldn’t want to see her gone.

The first 10 posts on this thread is just comedy gold ty OP for the giggles