Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone. My name is Rom, I’m just an average GW2 player trying to have a good time with my friends. I’ve rarely ever taken part in forums, but I felt I needed to bring this to attention.

A few days ago, someone close to me got scammed. She wanted a particular item and saw someone in Lion’s Arch map chat advertising it for sale. She asked him how much and he stated a reasonable price. He claimed he couldn’t afford the listing fees of the Trade Post and that he wanted a quick sale. Once she agreed he asked that she forward half the payment and some materials for insurance, then he would send the item and once the rest of the payment was made he would return the materials. He seemed like a friendly GW2 player trying to make a trade, unfortunately this was far from the truth. Once she sent him half the payment and the materials he blocked her and continued to advertise in map chat. Of course she tried to warn people off but he claimed that she was a liar and that she couldn’t afford the price he was offering.

After doing some research we found out that this wasn’t the first time something like this had happened, another person from a different server had been scammed by the same person using the exact same method. That player had gone through the processes too, trying to get something done about this, but nothing happened. Her thread was deleted and she was punished.

Now, you might be wondering why I’m making this post instead of the person who got scammed or who is the scammer and what’s being done about this? I’ll answer that last question first, nothing. She’s gone through the process of reporting and making a support ticket too, but the scammer won’t be punished. Secondly, I won’t be revealing who this scammer is even though I have that information because it’s against the CoC and I don’t want this post to be deleted. Finally, I’m making this post on behalf on the person who got scammed because I want her identity protected. She does not deserve to be the victim of any snide comments regarding this, she’s already beat herself up about this enough.

Now some of you may be thinking it’s her own fault and maybe it is, but ask yourself this…Haven’t you ever trusted someone who appeared to be a straight-up person? I don’t make this post in the hope of any sort of revenge, I do it so that you, your friends, your guild and even maybe your server knows that this is happening and knows how to avoid it. If you’ve read all the way down to this sentence, I thank you, you’ve taken the time to read this and now at least you know that this is happening.

Please, inform whoever you know about this, tell them about it or even bring them to this post, but don’t let this scamming continue. The only sure way of fighting this type of scamming is to prevent it.

Yeah I never thought trading via mail was a good idea. It’s too easy to get ripped off. Here is a thread from someone that wanted to sell using mail and wanted the gold first. I hope it isn’t them:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Trading-per-Mail

Have I ever trusted someone who appeared to be a straight up person? Of course.

Would I trust someone I have never met or seen in real life who is asking for money? No.

I’ve been in a party in fotm, found 2 destroyer cores, exclaimed that in chat.
someone in the party said they were collecting them for a legendary and could he buy them.
I quoted a price that was below market value and said sure.
I sent them, he sent the silver (pretty much at the same time), we finished the dungeon.
would I ever recommend anyone to do that? no way.
why did I do it? because I was feeling generous and could afford to lose them if he was scamming. basically I saw it as: “here’s a gift, can you please give me a gift back?”

My condolences to your friend. It sucks that we can’t just trust people, but leeches do exist.
It’s worth noting that it’s likely gold sellers that do this sort of thing. Anyone who plays the game will have a soured gaming experience after scamming – there’s just no reason to play: “look at this shiny sword that belongs to someone else”. gold sellers, on the other hand, don’t play the game.
I had a good read a couple weeks ago: http://www.wirm.net/nightfreeze/part1.html

Hi rom,

Make your friend report the person (even if she doesnt remember the name, stating the time and location of the incident should be enough). The tradepost is a good mechanic to prevent these things but in GW1 this wasnt the case. There was a collector with special gifts for a specifick item (nicholas) thatchanged location once per week. One week I didn’t had much time and bought the items. I saw on the wiki whathe needed and saw one advertising. He sold me something with a very simular name but bout 5% of the value. I didn’t realise till i went to nocholas and didnt had a name. But i did nreported the incident to support and a few hours later I got a message back that they investigated and that they took ’ disciplinary actions’ to the person. It didnt bring my money back, but I think thats the best warning for any person that wants to scam people.

And this is why I would NEVER go outside the TP for trading, unless it was a trusted friend. Your friend has my sympathies, but the TP exists precisely to protect players from scammers like what you described. If you ever trade outside the TP, you are doing so at your own risk.

I echo mercury’s advice though. Report the scammer and there is a good chance they will get punished/banned for it, although it won’t get your friend her goods back.

remember trading?

a good feature.

Romulus.6823:

Hello everyone. My name is Rom, I’m just an average GW2 player trying to have a good time with my friends. I’ve rarely ever taken part in forums, but I felt I needed to bring this to attention.

A few days ago, someone close to me got scammed. She wanted a particular item and saw someone in Lion’s Arch map chat advertising it for sale. She asked him how much and he stated a reasonable price. He claimed he couldn’t afford the listing fees of the Trade Post and that he wanted a quick sale. Once she agreed he asked that she forward half the payment and some materials for insurance, then he would send the item and once the rest of the payment was made he would return the materials. He seemed like a friendly GW2 player trying to make a trade, unfortunately this was far from the truth. Once she sent him half the payment and the materials he blocked her and continued to advertise in map chat. Of course she tried to warn people off but he claimed that she was a liar and that she couldn’t afford the price he was offering.

After doing some research we found out that this wasn’t the first time something like this had happened, another person from a different server had been scammed by the same person using the exact same method. That player had gone through the processes too, trying to get something done about this, but nothing happened. Her thread was deleted and she was punished.

Now, you might be wondering why I’m making this post instead of the person who got scammed or who is the scammer and what’s being done about this? I’ll answer that last question first, nothing. She’s gone through the process of reporting and making a support ticket too, but the scammer won’t be punished. Secondly, I won’t be revealing who this scammer is even though I have that information because it’s against the CoC and I don’t want this post to be deleted. Finally, I’m making this post on behalf on the person who got scammed because I want her identity protected. She does not deserve to be the victim of any snide comments regarding this, she’s already beat herself up about this enough.

Now some of you may be thinking it’s her own fault and maybe it is, but ask yourself this…Haven’t you ever trusted someone who appeared to be a straight-up person? I don’t make this post in the hope of any sort of revenge, I do it so that you, your friends, your guild and even maybe your server knows that this is happening and knows how to avoid it. If you’ve read all the way down to this sentence, I thank you, you’ve taken the time to read this and now at least you know that this is happening.

Please, inform whoever you know about this, tell them about it or even bring them to this post, but don’t let this scamming continue. The only sure way of fighting this type of scamming is to prevent it.

Sorry for your friend… whats your friends in game name?

tfwzyko.3516:

remember trading?

a good feature.

Didn’t actually help with scams. If you browsed the GW1 wiki you would run into warnings about various items being related/used in scams or see mercury’s post.

The next time you or your friend makes a transaction like this, make screenshots and record the transaction and agreeement.
Sendig a dupport ticket about being scammed should always get reviewed imo, anet has the tools to view chat and sent mails, and i find its very unprofeseional they simply delete your friend’s thread without even a warning/reason/advice.
I really hope a dev reads this, things like this just frustrate me so much…

My advice for now would be to get guildies/friends tofeel sorry and donate a little bit, thats what i would do. Try not to get scammed again, or just make screenshots for easier reporting.

Ive heard good things about the arenanet customer service/sending tickets… For them to ignore you just seems out of place to me.
Try sending another ticket? Dont forget to put in the exact date of when t happened and stuff like that.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Yeah I never thought trading via mail was a good idea. It’s too easy to get ripped off. Here is a thread from someone that wanted to sell using mail and wanted the gold first. I hope it isn’t them:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Trading-per-Mail

That’s not the scammer in question but I would be wary of anyone wanting to do business using the mail system, unless you know them well enough to know otherwise.

IVIUIEI.9631:

Sorry for your friend… whats your friends in game name?

Thank you. I won’t be revealing that information because I made this post to protect her identity while still getting this story heard.

Alissah.9281:

The next time you or your friend makes a transaction like this, make screenshots and record the transaction and agreeement.
Sendig a dupport ticket about being scammed should always get reviewed imo, anet has the tools to view chat and sent mails, and i find its very unprofeseional they simply delete your friend’s thread without even a warning/reason/advice.
I really hope a dev reads this, things like this just frustrate me so much…

My advice for now would be to get guildies/friends tofeel sorry and donate a little bit, thats what i would do. Try not to get scammed again, or just make screenshots for easier reporting.

Ive heard good things about the arenanet customer service/sending tickets… For them to ignore you just seems out of place to me.
Try sending another ticket? Dont forget to put in the exact date of when t happened and stuff like that.

Thank you. We’re in the process of communicating with Anet on the issue, but it has been reported, a support ticket has been filed and emails have and are being sent. The person who had their thread deleted was actually another victim of the scammer that we came into contact with, not my friend who was scammed this time. Regardless of what Anet does or doesn’t do, players need to be aware that this is happening.

Sorry for the double post, but the victim of the scam felt like she needed to have her say on the matter. I’ll be posting for her so her identity is protected.

:

I would just like to reveal myself as the friend that got scammed and I would like to clarify a few things as well as explain what is happening now.

Firstly, I have sent in total, three emails to the support team at Anet now, including screenshots of the ‘deal’ and the proof that the player had indeed blocked me post trade.

Anet have dismissed my claim, stating they cannot (will not) take action against this scammer. For reasons they have not disclosed.

However, a little bit of independent research has revealed that I’m definitely not the first victim this guy has taken advantage of. Infact he transferred from another server where he had pulled the same stunt before.

Secondly, while I don’t feel like I have to justify myself. I’d like to explain WHY I felt like I could trust this guy. And just how convincing he was. If you like an extension of Rom’s warning to others.

This wasn’t the first time I’ve had dealings with him. Recently I’ve seen him in WvW and even stuck with him in a small zerg before. If I remember rightly, he may have been sporting a commander tag.

However, when he advertised in LA map chat, it was on an alt. It seemed like a good idea at the time to engage him with an offer. This was reinforced when he seemed to show a genuine concern about being screwed over himself. I was sympathetic of course, I figured he had been screwed over before by another player. And for the nature of the item he was selling I could understand his paranoia. Being a seemingly new 80 alt, and showing no achievements, it was through my own fault that I did not check out his account name first to check for achievement points or the like. I simply assumed this character in green armor had chucked in a few rares to the forge and had gotten lucky. But could not afford the listing fee.

For all my brash behavior, I’d like to consider myself nice by nature. I genuinely thought I was doing this guy a favour and being a trustworthy community player by trying to reassure him with insurance items.

So that’s how it happened.
It’s all very well to say you wouldn’t trust someone in an online game that you’ve never met. All that means is we are two different kinds of players. If you were never to reach out to strangers, you would never network with anyone online.

And it’s very well to say always use the trade post. But the listing fees can be extremely taxing for high value items. As I mentioned before, I had no reason at the time not to believe him in his statement that he could not afford the listing fees. (especially for Dusk)

And it’s all very well to say to report it to Anet.
Truth is, they’ve done nothing. They did nothing when it was reported by another player. They’re doing nothing for me. And they’re going to continue to do nothing when he scams his next victim.

The attached screenshots are as follows:

-One response I received from one GM, which was repeated by the second, even though I asked completely different questions about what they will do with the scammer. (My email responses are too long to catch all in one screenshot unfortunately, but will deliver if it seems necessary)

-The second is a screenshot of a translated Cache file of a deleted thread. Another user trying to raise awareness of the scammer before he switched to our server. She is being punished by Anet for doing so. To avoid this post being deleted the names have been obscured. (although I wish I could name and shame)

(Edit: The second screenshot has been removed but is available on request. Thank you Mercury.)

Romulus.6823:

Sorry for the double post, but the victim of the scam felt like she needed to have her say on the matter. I’ll be posting for her so her identity is protected.

:

I would just like to reveal myself as the friend that got scammed and I would like to clarify a few things as well as explain what is happening now……..

I shortened your text a bit cause of the maximum lenght of this message
I want to advise you strongly to remove the second screenshot. A closed thread is closed and stays closed. It’s against the forum rules to re-open a closed thread or put any information of a deleted thread in the open.

As for the matter at hand. If you disagree with a decission made by support you can ask an arenanet official to review your appeal.

You do so by making a thread (on your own, not through Rom) on the account-issue section of this forum. Make sure you do note the 12-digit ticket number. Make sure you do not share any information bout the identity of the person who did this. The info is in the ticket so the official can look this up.

I think what is happening is that the GM is taking action on your report by marking the account of the person, but that they want to discourage usage these kinds of trades. The GM is right that they can’t force him to live to his end of the agreement. The accountmark would mean that if Arenanet gets more reports on this person they can still take action. I do hope that the official will tell you that or something in the same line of wording.

As for the problem of lucky newbe’s not being able to pay the listing fee. Maybe show some support to my suggestion wich is in my signature. It is a suggestion to prevent that from happening.

That’s a lesson to learn, don’t trust random people.
Even if the person says he can craft an item for you if you give the materials, you should not send items to that person if you don’t know him/her. Ask a guildmate you trust to craft items for you, or level your crafting to make the item.

Mystic.5934 said he sold the cores. I’d not do that. Either you give the item to the person, or don’t do that. Imagine if the person gets the cores, blocks you and disappears.

I really wanted to help people around, but this world is corrupted

Apart from the issue of whether she was too trusting I do think it’s strange that ANet doesn’t act more decisively towards the scammer. Although I appreciate the argument that the scammer wasn’t contractually obliged to live up to his end of the agreement or whatnot, it was still a scam.

Sure, if someone uses a money-trade trick on you, or scams you out of your credit card details or scams you into using some service you didn’t want to sign up for, maybe in retrospect you realise you could have been more wary or you could have kept your personal details somewhere else. That doesn’t mean that the scammer isn’t to blame. The scammer is still the person who did something wrong.

Since you can buy gems/gold for actual money in GW2, this is pretty much the same thing for me. Someone scammed her out of a lot of gold which is worth actual money. I think it’s troubling no action is being taken against the scammer, who can just go on and keep doing what he did. That’s the very LEAST Anet could do. I don’t see why I should invest my money in a company that doesn’t have the interest of protecting players at heart. I would find it very comforting to see the scammer getting punished for scamming, regardless of the context.

But that’s just my two cents. I think it’s strange, is all.

Iammara.7934:

Apart from the issue of whether she was too trusting I do think it’s strange that ANet doesn’t act more decisively towards the scammer. Although I appreciate the argument that the scammer wasn’t contractually obliged to live up to his end of the agreement or whatnot, it was still a scam.

Sure, if someone uses a money-trade trick on you, or scams you out of your credit card details or scams you into using some service you didn’t want to sign up for, maybe in retrospect you realise you could have been more wary or you could have kept your personal details somewhere else. That doesn’t mean that the scammer isn’t to blame. The scammer is still the person who did something wrong.

Since you can buy gems/gold for actual money in GW2, this is pretty much the same thing for me. Someone scammed her out of a lot of gold which is worth actual money. I think it’s troubling no action is being taken against the scammer, who can just go on and keep doing what he did. That’s the very LEAST Anet could do. I don’t see why I should invest my money in a company that doesn’t have the interest of protecting players at heart. I would find it very comforting to see the scammer getting punished for scamming, regardless of the context.

But that’s just my two cents. I think it’s strange, is all.

If they actually took action for every report that system would be easily abused. They have also stated many times that they will not get involved if people decide to trade using mail or other methods besides the TP. The TP allows making the transaction without the risk but someone decided to gamble for a cheaper alternative and as with any other form of gambling sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

On the other hand the TP itself isn’t 100% safe either but it’s still less risky.

Just out of curiosity, what was the item?

We have some person named Sohpia on TC that spams mail trade all day for several months now. (s)he claims to not be a scammer but you never know. Bottom line, do not buy from mail chat. You’ll likely put yourself in a state of rage because even in game, some people don’t care to make an honest buck.

Wolfgang Michael.8217:

Just out of curiosity, what was the item?

Wondering that also.

It would be nice if they added a cod feature to the mail system. And not allow anything stupid like gift wrapping. Also have the cod mail have a short timer on it before it is auto sent back if not collected. Like an hour or so, this way a person cant say yea send it cod and never accept it and keep the item in limbo.

Bailey.6892:

Wolfgang Michael.8217:

Just out of curiosity, what was the item?

Wondering that also.

It would be nice if they added a cod feature to the mail system. And not allow anything stupid like gift wrapping. Also have the cod mail have a short timer on it before it is auto sent back if not collected. Like an hour or so, this way a person cant say yea send it cod and never accept it and keep the item in limbo.

The problem with mail trading is that people would be spamming /map non-stop. If they had a trade channel it would be so full of non-stop posts it would be almost painful to try to follow because people would be spamming it non-stop as well.

I imagine this is one reason why it is discouraged in GW2 and why it is fairly risky if you do it.

I feel bad for your friend, and I hope it was not a huge amount of gold. The reason why this game has no trade system between player to player is so we have to use TP which basically taxes us, This helps put imaginary made money back into the game to keep inflation down.

This was done on purpose and I highly suggest anyone that if someone can’t afford the listing fee, its probably a high price item and I wouldn’t trust someone, and if its a small priced item, in my opinion, its highly unlikely they will voluntarily sell it for cheaper.

Hope it works out.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Bailey.6892:

Wolfgang Michael.8217:

Just out of curiosity, what was the item?

Wondering that also.

It would be nice if they added a cod feature to the mail system. And not allow anything stupid like gift wrapping. Also have the cod mail have a short timer on it before it is auto sent back if not collected. Like an hour or so, this way a person cant say yea send it cod and never accept it and keep the item in limbo.

The problem with mail trading is that people would be spamming /map non-stop. If they had a trade channel it would be so full of non-stop posts it would be almost painful to try to follow because people would be spamming it non-stop as well.

I imagine this is one reason why it is discouraged in GW2 and why it is fairly risky if you do it.

Cant be any worse than the spam anet programs into the game, your invited to dance as an example. But yes I can see that.

The thing that baffles me is for the few honest mail traders, they take time to sell the items (atleast from what I see, since they repost the same items over and over and over…) So by the time, if at all, the item sells they probably have farmed or collected the tp tax it would of costed them.

Why not just sell it on the tp? It’s quicker, you’re still making a large profit (15% off 50g is still 42.5g, which is a lot) why worry about it? The tax is there for a reason. It may not solve the economy’s core problems on it’s own but it helps, same as all money sinks do. Most people got over the wp costs, it’s time to get over the tp tax..

Sad that your friend got scammed. But its a good leason to all, to not buy from mail traders. Block them, and let them waste the next X months trying to sell an item that cost nearly the exact same on the tp. Best part is, the tp is scam free as long as you have eyes (i.e, don’t buy t2 bags for 5g each. Things like that)

He didn’t stole money. You can’t pickpocket ingame. She gave him the money, it was her choice to trust him.

from the attached email to support, the item in question was Dusk.

It was probably a tough choice for Anet to decide to never intervene with scammers. On one hand, no one likes them. But on the other, the lengths it would take and side effects of going after them would be huge.
People would get into an argument with someone, then turn them in for scamming out of rage. The hours necessary to look through logs to determine who is telling the truth is worth more than a lot of players have even bought in gems. If players knew they would be backed up if scammed, they would put themselves in more situations where they could get scammed, further increasing Anet’s burden.
Personally, in theory at least, I’m a big fan of: “If you accuse someone and they were proven innocent, you should receive the same punishment they would of received”. It’s just hard to put that into practice, as you would still be claiming to be a victim.

If Anet wanted to have a trade window in game so that people could be sure they would not get scammed, they could.

Just an update to the status of our communication with Anet, a GM has infact said that they will look into the matter and inform us if any action will be taken.

I think most are missing the point here. Rom is trying to spread the story of what happened to prevent others from becoming victims to this kind of scam. Some people are aware that it’s better to ignore advertisements, but there are others who may be a little more trusting of others and try to get a good deal on an item they would rather not farm for, try their hand at the forge, hoard gold etc. Just keep an eye out for people trying to pull the wool over others eyes. The person in question is still trying to sell the item, and has convinced others that he is genuinely selling it and I’m sure there are others out there trying to pull the same stunt. Look out for yourselves and for others.