Guild Wars 2

Happens often, in most MMORPG games, even in FPS/slasher) games, people will kick the most dominant person.

I have never been in a Dungeon on GW2 as of yet, as I’m only level 77 (almost 78) but I have seen that getting a group of friends/guild members is better as pick up groups (PUG) tend to have this more common.

If you ask me, ArenaNet should hand anyone who voted to kick a temporary ban. They don’t have to take your word for it that you were a valuable team member, nor does it matter if the other group members felt you were a bad player (though it sounds like that wasn’t their motivation anyhow). ANet can look up exactly what happened, and when, and verify every detail of the story. Motives are irrelevant. There’s no “gray area” where it might be okay to kick someone just before the final boss drops. Even if they felt you were a serious liability to the team, they had the whole dungeon to figure that out.

I know ArenaNet have a lot on their plate, and are already in getting flak from some people about the amount of bans they’ve been handing out lately — but there comes a time when they have to decide whether they want to defend well-meaning customers against people who abuse the system, or if they want to turn a blind eye to it and let behaviour like this continue.

Maybe this could be a chance to get creative with their punishments, too. Make them do “community service” like running 5 dungeon PUGs without being able to collect any loot, or have them run a bunch of different dynamic events in low-level zones. Heck, put a special icon above their heads for a while so everyone in Tyria knows what they did.

I don’t think anything is going to happen because kicking people out of dungeon groups isn’t against the TOS afaik (I could be wrong about this) so therefore they didn’t do a punishable offense.

I’m with fyrebrand on this one. I imagine if they do it to enough people, and get reported enough anet will take action.

Esp since people who act like this kill a game faster than the typical bug or lack of added content.

Fyrebrand.4859:

If you ask me, ArenaNet should hand anyone who voted to kick a temporary ban. They don’t have to take your word for it that you were a valuable team member, nor does it matter if the other group members felt you were a bad player (though it sounds like that wasn’t their motivation anyhow). ANet can look up exactly what happened, and when, and verify every detail of the story. Motives are irrelevant. There’s no “gray area” where it might be okay to kick someone just before the final boss drops. Even if they felt you were a serious liability to the team, they had the whole dungeon to figure that out.

I know ArenaNet have a lot on their plate, and are already in getting flak from some people about the amount of bans they’ve been handing out lately — but there comes a time when they have to decide whether they want to defend well-meaning customers against people who abuse the system, or if they want to turn a blind eye to it and let behaviour like this continue.

Maybe this could be a chance to get creative with their punishments, too. Make them do “community service” like running 5 dungeon PUGs without being able to collect any loot, or have them run a bunch of different dynamic events in low-level zones. Heck, put a special icon above their heads for a while so everyone in Tyria knows what they did.

A temp ban is to much, if you’re going to get banned for it, why is it even an option in the game.
It’s used for people who like to troll etc.

And this is why I refuse to pug anything. If I can’t run it with friends or guild members, I’ll wait until such a time as they are available.

Millionaires.4201:

A temp ban is to much, if you’re going to get banned for it, why is it even an option in the game.
It’s used for people who like to troll etc.

Okay, first of all: snowflake exploit. People are getting banned for crafting, yet those who are actively and needlessly malicious towards other players face no consequences.

If they’re going to act like children and bully others around, then they need to go sit in the corner and take a time out. A week without GW2 isn’t going to kill them. How hard is it to just not kick people out of the dungeon at the last second?

As for why it’s an option in the game, I can’t speak to that. There should probably be some mechanism in place to prevent it from happening, at least while in combat and for some period of time after the kill so they have a chance to loot. I know, whatever system ANet comes up with, there will be unfair things popping up in it — but in this case they have the means to do something about it fairly easily.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Millionaires.4201:

A temp ban is to much, if you’re going to get banned for it, why is it even an option in the game.
It’s used for people who like to troll etc.

Okay, first of all: snowflake exploit. People are getting banned for crafting, yet those who are actively and needlessly malicious towards other players face no consequences.

If they’re going to act like children and bully others around, then they need to go sit in the corner and take a time out. A week without GW2 isn’t going to kill them. How hard is it to just not kick people out of the dungeon at the last second?

As for why it’s an option in the game, I can’t speak to that. There should probably be some mechanism in place to prevent it from happening, at least while in combat and for some period of time after the kill so they have a chance to loot. I know, whatever system ANet comes up with, there will be unfair things popping up in it — but in this case they have the means to do something about it fairly easily.

That’s an exploit >.<

Millionaires.4201:

That’s an exploit >.<

Acting maliciously to offend a user, or bait them into acting maliciously to a troll / baiting user to get banned so that the troll can live in peace forever…

is an exploit of human emotions and psychology. So it doesn’t matter if it’s an exploit for in the game, or an exploit for real life, an exploit is an exploit.

Iyeru.5240:

Millionaires.4201:

That’s an exploit >.<

Acting maliciously to offend a user, or bait them into acting maliciously to a troll / baiting user to get banned so that the troll can live in peace forever…

is an exploit of human emotions and psychology. So it doesn’t matter if it’s an exploit for in the game, or an exploit for real life, an exploit is an exploit.

“Acting maliciously” is so subjective. Even if you keep chat logs, text cannot transmit intent.

The problem is pugs. The answer is to find a guild of decent people to play with. May take you awhile, but it’ll be worth it in the end.

The kicking system is far too open to abuse for it to be worthwhile in its current state. The vast majority of cases for its justification involves pugs (with guilds or friend groups it’s nowhere near needed as much), so if it’s creating a paradigm where pugging becomes untenably risky then the kicking system is failing its design objectives.

The kicking system works perfectly in my opinion. I know being kicked out of a group isn’t nice and even offending.
However how unetical it is, it is also totally normal that you cant force someone to play with you. I know that when we are talking and halfway your sentence I walk away that that is not done. But is is my freedom to do so anyway.

if you dont want to have this to happen dont play in pug’s. 99% of the time I have had an awesome time in pug’s. 1% is a pug of jerks. so be it.

The kicking system should be a voting system, similar to how popular TF2 mods work. The entire party has to vote on whether or not that specific user is kicked. Of course, that specific user has to vote too. If you are only in a party with you and said user, the party system will auto-disband the party rather than calling said vote.

So if three jerks cooperate then they can ruin two other people’s play session? voting is not the answer.

If a player is kicked right before the final chest/boss via griefing on the kickers end, (and its reported) the kickers will get a 3 day ban. Anet has answered a similar thread on this a few months ago, and I’ve seen a qq thread from a kicker.

skullfaerie.7203:

mercury ranique.2170:

The kicking system works perfectly in my opinion. I know being kicked out of a group isn’t nice and even offending.
However how unetical it is, it is also totally normal that you cant force someone to play with you. I know that when we are talking and halfway your sentence I walk away that that is not done. But is is my freedom to do so anyway.

if you dont want to have this to happen dont play in pug’s. 99% of the time I have had an awesome time in pug’s. 1% is a pug of jerks. so be it.

There’s a difference between someone not wanting to play with you and using you to get through the whole dungeon, only kicking you once you’re not needed anymore.
Clearly these individuals want you along for the ride, they just don’t want you to get anything out of it.
That’s completely different from what you are describing.

And hey, if the bad eggs are so few, there shouldn’t be a problem punishing them, since it won’t hurt the game to lose a few jerks for the benefit of the rest.

No there is not a difference. It is called freedom. And yes they are jerks. And yes they get on my FL, with a nick reminding me never to play with them ever again. And yes. Everytime I see them LFG I tell whole map chat what they’ve done. But I don’t think that the freedom to kick someone in any situation should be prohibited, or that Anet should be acting as a policeofficer for something we could easily handle as a community.

If Anet is banning those people I disagree. I have seen misbehaviour in other games e.g. LOTRO. on my server one had caused and incident during an activity making the share of the loot (not such an issue in gw2, but likewise behaviour as in this situation) go wrong.

The result was that his name became garbage on the server within 10 minutes. got kicked out of his guild (or whatever thats called again in lotro). in every map he came people where warning the entire community to not play with him. after bout 5 hours he came round, made a public appoligy, handed over the goods and assured he had learned his lesson and would never do it again. He was also inmediatly excepted back into the community.

Iyeru.5240:

Millionaires.4201:

That’s an exploit >.<

Acting maliciously to offend a user, or bait them into acting maliciously to a troll / baiting user to get banned so that the troll can live in peace forever…

is an exploit of human emotions and psychology. So it doesn’t matter if it’s an exploit for in the game, or an exploit for real life, an exploit is an exploit.

Oh sorry I’m pretty new so I thought he just meant crafting in general, is there something that explains it so I don’t fall victim to it?

Edit: Looked into it.

Zebulous.2934:

So if three jerks cooperate then they can ruin two other people’s play session? voting is not the answer.

It’s a whole lot better than two jerks being able to ruin your day, or one jerk who the system won’t let you kick. I have played games where vote kicking wasn’t allowed or was bugged, and yes, there really were people who would afk to prevent you from progessing through mechanics that needed a full party just to troll. There were also bots who would just auto-follow and reap the rewards.

Absolutely any system is going to have issues, but a majority vote is probably the lesser of these evils.

Urthona.3198:

Zebulous.2934:

So if three jerks cooperate then they can ruin two other people’s play session? voting is not the answer.

It’s a whole lot better than two jerks being able to ruin your day, or one jerk who the system won’t let you kick. I have played games where vote kicking wasn’t allowed or was bugged, and yes, there really were people who would afk to prevent you from progessing through mechanics that needed a full party just to troll. There were also bots who would just auto-follow and reap the rewards.

Absolutely any system is going to have issues, but a majority vote is probably the lesser of these evils.

In TF2 servers nowadays, you have to donate to get !votekick privvies QQ.

I can see it now.

Dweller 1: “Dude snort know what would be funny to kick this guy?”
Dweller 2:" Dude do it haha make sure you tweet this to your japanese model online girlfriend when you’re done she would so want to know!"

Agree 100% havent done fractals of the mist but before i came to this wonderful game there was a dungeon gamemode where constantly for skritts and giggles people would kick and laugh it up with their team.

@OP

You got kicked from a party and reported them for scamming?
IMO you should be temp banned for abusing the report function.

Being scammed and kicked are two very different things not to mention the fact that you go on to whine on the forums about something as trivial as a AC run.

Millionaires.4201:

Happens often, in most MMORPG games, even in FPS/slasher) games, people will kick the most dominant person.

I have never been in a Dungeon on GW2 as of yet, as I’m only level 77 (almost 78) but I have seen that getting a group of friends/guild members is better as pick up groups (PUG) tend to have this more common.

Dungeons start at level 30 XD.

I consider it greifing report away.

Medarr.7193:

@OP

You got kicked from a party and reported them for scamming?
IMO you should be temp banned for abusing the report function.

Being scammed and kicked are two very different things not to mention the fact that you go on to whine on the forums about something as trivial as a AC run.

Actually, dev posts say to report people who kick egregiously under Scamming until a separate category gets added in. Learn2Search before insulting people pls.

@OP Yup, this is considered a problem and should be reported. I think ANet classifies it with scamming/trolling/griefing.

wookalar.8952:

If a player is kicked right before the final chest/boss via griefing on the kickers end, (and its reported) the kickers will get a 3 day ban. Anet has answered a similar thread on this a few months ago, and I’ve seen a qq thread from a kicker.

And that is how it should be! There are too many people that find pleasure in making someone else miserable.

I have a very limited time frame that I can play and I would be pretty kitten off too if I spent a part of that time helping a group through a dungeon just to get kicked right before the reward. It may seem harmless and funny to someone who can spend 16 hours a day on the game but for those with limited time to play it sucks!

mercury ranique.2170:

skullfaerie.7203:

mercury ranique.2170:

The kicking system works perfectly in my opinion. I know being kicked out of a group isn’t nice and even offending.
However how unetical it is, it is also totally normal that you cant force someone to play with you. I know that when we are talking and halfway your sentence I walk away that that is not done. But is is my freedom to do so anyway.

if you dont want to have this to happen dont play in pug’s. 99% of the time I have had an awesome time in pug’s. 1% is a pug of jerks. so be it.

There’s a difference between someone not wanting to play with you and using you to get through the whole dungeon, only kicking you once you’re not needed anymore.
Clearly these individuals want you along for the ride, they just don’t want you to get anything out of it.
That’s completely different from what you are describing.

And hey, if the bad eggs are so few, there shouldn’t be a problem punishing them, since it won’t hurt the game to lose a few jerks for the benefit of the rest.

No there is not a difference. It is called freedom. And yes they are jerks. And yes they get on my FL, with a nick reminding me never to play with them ever again. And yes. Everytime I see them LFG I tell whole map chat what they’ve done. But I don’t think that the freedom to kick someone in any situation should be prohibited, or that Anet should be acting as a policeofficer for something we could easily handle as a community.

If Anet is banning those people I disagree. I have seen misbehaviour in other games e.g. LOTRO. on my server one had caused and incident during an activity making the share of the loot (not such an issue in gw2, but likewise behaviour as in this situation) go wrong.

The result was that his name became garbage on the server within 10 minutes. got kicked out of his guild (or whatever thats called again in lotro). in every map he came people where warning the entire community to not play with him. after bout 5 hours he came round, made a public appoligy, handed over the goods and assured he had learned his lesson and would never do it again. He was also inmediatly excepted back into the community.

That’s a nice story. I don’t see how it’s better than an ‘official’ punishment, however. The problem is that there need to be a lot of people there to witness whatever has happened (which isn’t the case in a dungeon) AND the person who did it needs to care enough for this to work.

I don’t even know how you could liken behavior like this to “freedom”. Freedom to be an utter jerk? Freedom to abuse a system in order to annoy someone else? Freedom to do whatever the hell we want? That’s not how it works, nor should it work that way anywhere. Besides, you do realize we don’t have the “freedom” to even use swear words on this forum, why would expect it to be all right with ANET if we go around griefing each other?

I think they should get a warning or a temporary ban. There’s no excuse. If the OP really was terrible or rude, they had plenty of chance to kick them before and I doubt the OP started insulting the rest of the group right before the last boss was down.

mercury ranique.2170:

No there is not a difference. It is called freedom. And yes they are jerks. And yes they get on my FL, with a nick reminding me never to play with them ever again. And yes. Everytime I see them LFG I tell whole map chat what they’ve done.

Look at all the trouble you’ve had to go to, maintaining a list of offenders for fear of future incidents, and wasting your own time calling them out in map chat whenever you see one of them LFG. All this effort, because the slight inconvenience of a temporary ban pending an investigation by ANet would be stepping on their toes a little too much. Good heavens, I wouldn’t want to subject those fine gentlemen to anything so unsavory as a temp ban! Their ability to enjoy GW2 trumps everything.

Whether you are trying to protect others from suffering the same fate, or you’re just trying to get your revenge on the perpetrators, you are not the Batman of GW2. It is not your job to dispense vigilante justice in this fashion, nor should you be insisting that the rest of us should shoulder this burden and not bother ANet GMs with the problem.

mercury ranique.2170:

But I don’t think that the freedom to kick someone in any situation should be prohibited, or that Anet should be acting as a policeofficer for something we could easily handle as a community.

GW2 is not a free society. It is a video game, owned and operated by ArenaNet. Not only are they the police officers of the game, they are practically the gods. They have rules about how players are allowed to behave in the game, and there are consequences for not following those rules. As another poster thankfully mentioned, apparently they do have rules about needlessly kicking other players out of a party for griefing purposes.
ANet is doing their best to ensure that all who paid for the game get a fair shot at enjoying it equally and without hassle. If another player starts to become a hassle, we have the opportunity to report it. Why should this case be any different?

Even in the real world, we have laws that prevent people from harassing others or depriving them of their rights. If you don’t behave, you get a fine or wind up in jail. Your right to freedom is temporarily suspended. No one is 100% free to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

mercury ranique.2170:

I have seen misbehaviour in other games…

The result was that his name became garbage on the server within 10 minutes…

…after bout 5 hours he came round, made a public appoligy

Oh, good. So if this ever happens again, all we have to do is devote 5 hours to a public shame campaign.

What you just recounted was essentially a fairy tale. By that, I don’t mean that I don’t believe you or that it never happened — but rather that it is such an unrealistically rare and idyllic outcome that you can’t possibly expect this to happen consistently.

Your anecdote necessarily cannot function in the kind of situation the original poster described. It was him all alone in a dungeon, with four others who abused the game mechanics just to prevent him from getting the reward he deserved, for their own amusement. So, just how do you think he should “easily handle” the situation? Immediately start calling them out by name in map chat, like a raving lunatic? So, either they deny his story or say nothing at all, meanwhile 20 other people who are just annoyed with him report him for spamming the chat channel. Then maybe he gets banned. Best case scenario, no one believes him and just ignores/forgets the story in 5 minutes.

Imagine you were sitting in Lion’s arch, and some guy just starts accusing other players of kicking him out of a dungeon for bad reasons. You don’t know what happened, or why. You don’t know who’s telling the truth. What are you going to do about it, anyway?

ArenaNet don’t have to “guess” who to believe. They can look it up. They have all the data. It’s better for the guy to just report the incident to them, and let ANet handle it as they see fit — not try to convince others with emotional, one-sided anecdotes and hope to incite an angry mob. The goal is merely to prevent malicious behaviour, not score revenge and escalate the situation to involve more and more people.

I have no problems with a “vote to kick” feature being in the game, but like any feature it needs to have proper controls and monitors set up around it, and it needs to be reported when players abuse such features. Anything less is ignorant and irresponsible.

I really think you’re blowing this way out of proportion. Although that might just be my bias at work since I find this thread pointless and keep getting irritated when it pops up to the top and I think it’s a thread I’m interested in because of the new post icon.

Gilosean.3805:

Medarr.7193:

@OP

You got kicked from a party and reported them for scamming?
IMO you should be temp banned for abusing the report function.

Being scammed and kicked are two very different things not to mention the fact that you go on to whine on the forums about something as trivial as a AC run.

Actually, dev posts say to report people who kick egregiously under Scamming until a separate category gets added in. Learn2Search before insulting people pls.

@OP Yup, this is considered a problem and should be reported. I think ANet classifies it with scamming/trolling/griefing.

You use that word egregiously but i dont think you know what that means so before you start running your mouth L2google. For all we know hes trying to get people blacklisted

I feel your pain skullfairie, actually happened once to me in CoF by some player and his tagalong guildie that thought he was too good for the rest of us, and kicked three people to bring in other guildies during the final fight in Magg’s path, making a sad attempt to call us incompetent thinking we weren’t following his orders to take down the 4 acolytes simultaneously (which we were all actually making an effort for, though a couple of us were newish). Sickened me for awhile.

In the end I simply got over it, realizing that it’s not Anet’s fault, it’s not my fault, and it’s not something that should be happening.

It’s just a griefer player, one which is rare and hard to pin down/prove in some cases. If you’re lucky they’ll be able to get some manner of proof of their intentions, but it’s very unlikely.

why not adjust the system to make it unkickable when in the last stages of the dungeon? Why would anyone want to kick ppl anyway at the very end of a dungeon other then to be a kitten?
So just take the option away at a certain stage of the dungeon and open it up again when finished..

Report them to Anet and say they called you a racial slur.

That latter won’t work, ANet can check chat logs.