Guild Wars 2

I am thinking about either two daggers or two pistols. What is a good trait for each build?

I’m an advocate of condition damage thieves because it’s simply way more fun for me.
I run about with D/D as my main set and P/P as my off-set.

I like to use Steal creatively, so I invest points in that traitline. That is also good for condition damage. From the same traitline, Ricochet is a great trait for pistols. Uncatchable helps you get away from enemies and whittle them down. From the grandmaster traits, it’s up to your taste!

Double Daggers are well suited both for condition damage – Death Blossom (combined with the Uncatchable trait) – and direct damage – Stealth, then Backstab.

• Death Blossom is better by far in aoe.
• Backstab is better for single-target.
  → Heartseeker is best of all for finishing targets, regardless of build.

Since people often put down stray bleeds in dungeons, it’s often better to switch to backstabbing. Keep in mind that Death Blossom helps you live longer.
If you are going to count on Uncatchable, be sure to put some points in Acrobatics, for the Endurance regen.

D/D is great against single targets. P/P is bad in every situation.
Against multiple mobs i suggest you sword/pistol. Pistol5 blinds 5 targets around you so you can cleave (hits up to 3 targets at once in front of you) them down with sword. Also sword #3 is a decent burst and evade in one skill which paired up with Signet of Malice can heal you from nearly 0 to full health in one go if you hit multiple targets.
Guides:

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12497961-dnt-thief-build-415-patch
http://youtu.be/JGCxostKwAk
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/10/gw2-thief-pve-class-guide/

Seal.5964:

I’m an advocate of condition damage thieves because it’s simply way more fun for me.
I run about with D/D as my main set and P/P as my off-set.

.

Why in the world run p/p for ranged condition build?? That is just nuts. You can do p/d and actually USE conditions.. P/P is unload build which nets you nothing with cond build

OP do not follow this advice.

you can run d/d and p/d with conditions and do just fine in all but zerg pve/wvw

If you talking dungeons and PvE, dual wield dagger is great against bosses or single target mobs. The only thing with D/D though, you need position yourself behind your target when attk, otherwise it lose its potential. For more than two mobs you can use sword/pistol. Pistol whip is really OP, you are basically invulnerable when you use it. Imo the blind on sword isn’t that useful except as smoke field, its good for pulling mobs but when you are stacking you can just use smoke screen. I also use Sword/pistol for some bosses where you need to spam evade a lot, like Alpha in CoE, you basically can’t survive without it. For bosses and mobs you stack on a wall for, I would say dagger set is completely useless, just use s/p instead.

Here is the build I run for ‘casual’ speedruns (ie. unorganized groups). Its focus on boon sharing with you and your group, which is mainly fury + swiftness:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al8Mp6pFOx3JsPRRLBtdHi+H86N6ehA0DA-TRRBwAX3fU+dT9HU6HA8EAMrEUMA5B-e

nagr.1593:

For bosses and mobs you stack on a wall for, I would say dagger set is completely useless, just use s/p instead.

Why do you want to stack on a wall against bosses? FGS is nerfed for a looooooong time now.

Fiery Rush:

• Fiery Rush no longer generates fire fields if the character’s position does not change significantly (for example, running against a wall).
• The number of fire fields created by this skill has been reduced by 50%.
• Reduced damage of fire fields by 70%.
• This skill now ignores the movement penalties from chilled and crippled conditions.
• Increased damage of the leap attack by 140%.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/first#post4380305

nagr.1593:

Also, some boss attacks are negated when you stack on the wall

I keep hearing this, but no one wants to explain it. Ever. Examples?

and other skills do more damage against wall (fgs wasn’t the only case).

Whirlwind attack is another one and Acid bomb is the third but it can be canceled mid air. Enabling your thief and ranger in the party to properly flanking the enemy will result more damage output than let your warrior do two more ticks with WWA.

Dalanor.5387:

nagr.1593:

Also, some boss attacks are negated when you stack on the wall

I keep hearing this, but no one wants to explain it. Ever. Examples?

I can think of several examples in AC at prima vista.

• The Spider Queen won’t throw poison wells if everyone is at melee range.
• Tunneling Gravelings won’t tunnel if everyone is at melee range.

Or TA up, the Spider Lady – the one certain way you have of beating her is by retreating in the tunnel and negating her “wake up my darlings”.

Or the Aetherpath and the final Cogface boss – he won’t fling cogs at nearby people.
And so on, and so forth.

Or that stacking on a boss who pew-pews much will make it easier to reflect all his projectiles.

I agree though, I find stacking boring and I never do it, but you have to admit there’s some sense in it. As a Thief, stacking is obviously a huge no-no, as people have pointed out. Melee range is cool – and everyone should do it, when the tactics require it.

Siobhan.3582:

Why in the world run p/p for ranged condition build?? That is just nuts. You can do p/d and actually USE conditions.. P/P is unload build which nets you nothing with cond build

Aye, sorry, I forgot to mention I use P/P only as a fall-back set. They’re useful because I can root and stun people, because the main attack is a bleed, and because of the smoke screen.

You should consider that as a thief, you don’t have cooldowns and you shouldn’t care if all your weapons are optimal. If you’re optimal with one set, D/D, there’s no need to add another redundant set, unless you’re absolutely certain you will be sticking to it. P/D can’t compare with D/D for condition damage and brings less utility to a D/D main set than P/P. Although do switch around!

Seal.5964:

Dalanor.5387:

nagr.1593:

Also, some boss attacks are negated when you stack on the wall

I keep hearing this, but no one wants to explain it. Ever. Examples?

I can think of several examples in AC at prima vista.

• The Spider Queen won’t throw poison wells if everyone is at melee range.
• Tunneling Gravelings won’t tunnel if everyone is at melee range.

Or TA up, the Spider Lady – the one certain way you have of beating her is by retreating in the tunnel and negating her “wake up my darlings”.

Or the Aetherpath and the final Cogface boss – he won’t fling cogs at nearby people.
And so on, and so forth.

Or that stacking on a boss who pew-pews much will make it easier to reflect all his projectiles.

I agree though, I find stacking boring and I never do it, but you have to admit there’s some sense in it. As a Thief, stacking is obviously a huge no-no, as people have pointed out. Melee range is cool – and everyone should do it, when the tactics require it.

Spider queen got changed months ago and do the poison spit in melee range too.
Gravelings tunneling is proximity based attack.
Fiona spawns spiders when someone steps on the cocoons.
Clockhearth cog attack is proximity based again. Same as Lupis kick or swipe in melee range or the teleport or bubble when someone is at range. It has nothing to do with walling the enemy or not.

Standing in front of an enemy and drop a reflect on it will result the same.

No, there is no sense in it since the FGS nerf. Please educate yourself and avoid further spreading of misinformations. Same goes for you, nagr.

http://gw2dungeons.net/

I picked sword pistol. I like it.

Dalanor.5387:

Same as Lupis kick or swipe in melee range or the teleport or bubble when someone is at range. It has nothing to do with walling the enemy or not.

not true, if Lupi is walled he will not do his PBAoE blast or bubble as long as everyone is stacked on him. You can fight him without walling him as long as everyone stand close, but the problem with that is he will move around and you risk his PBAoE blast.

Also, I think everyone know this by now but if Lupi is walled he can be 1 shot at the start of phase two with reflects (guard, engi, mesmer etc.). I don’t think its intended and I dislike when groups do it, but until they fix it there is a huge advantage to walling this boss.

edit: I never thought about it much, but you are right… walling a boss is mostly pointless now. I guess its just group mentality which you cant change, almost all of them will try to wall any boss they can. Since the OP will most likely get groups like this, he should be prepared to adjust his build for this. Always use s/p when this happen.

D/D and P/P as a secondary also allows you to mix it up as D/P and P/D thus giving you four mixes to play with. For the longest time I played with D/P and P/D as my primary, using shadow shot to close and then stab them repeatedly while blinded. Right now I’m playing S/D and P/P so I can work on my sword mastery achievement.

Maybe you guys should answer OP’s question first before giving your opinion.

For d/d, ppl usually take at least 6pts in critical strike, because hidden killer synergize really well with CloakNDagger (dagger5 skill) and backstab combo.

For p/p, ppl usually take at least 4pts in trickery for ricochet trait. The rest of the traits are usually something that could improve initiative regen.

Pls bear in mind, both of those builds are focused around pve content, where you want to max dps as possible. In pvp, ppl tend to spend their traits more on shadow arts and trickery. Survivability is more important in pvp than dishing more dmg.

nagr.1593:

Dalanor.5387:

Same as Lupis kick or swipe in melee range or the teleport or bubble when someone is at range. It has nothing to do with walling the enemy or not.

not true, if Lupi is walled he will not do his PBAoE blast or bubble as long as everyone is stacked on him. You can fight him without walling him as long as everyone stand close, but the problem with that is he will move around and you risk his PBAoE blast.

Which is a range issue. It’s just easier to pull off that way but the mechanic won’t work even if you are off wall but at the right place at the right moment. For reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMQdVLbjUEo

Also, I think everyone know this by now but if Lupi is walled he can be 1 shot at the start of phase two with reflects (guard, engi, mesmer etc.). I don’t think its intended and I dislike when groups do it, but until they fix it there is a huge advantage to walling this boss.

Thats a more complicated issue. First of all it’s a niche situations with reflect damage. No other boss shoots that many projectiles in a short period of time so yeah, it’s borderline exploit. Secondly, the reflect placement on a wall is a huge oversight but that will probably get fixed in the next weeks/months. Again it’s a niche situation with a more complex issue than simply “walling something”.

edit: I never thought about it much, but you are right… walling a boss is mostly pointless now. I guess its just group mentality which you cant change, almost all of them will try to wall any boss they can. Since the OP will most likely get groups like this, he should be prepared to adjust his build for this. Always use s/p when this happen.

Yeah, you can still see 4 warr 1 mes groups in CoF … Pugs are a bit slow on tactics. :P In those cases S/P works well.

Just dropping in here to note that there are further reasons for walling:

1. For mobs that have more damaging attack types at range, walling allows you to dodge into a wall even when you need to dodge without exiting melee range. This is especially relevant for Subject Alpha phases II and III.
2. For mobs that summon as part of their rotation, walling concentrates all summons into a 120 deg cleave arc, while fighting in the open may occasionally drop summons behind your cleave arc.
3. Certain mobs use projectile attacks that cannot pass through walls/doors, like Wahlen in CM. Walling the target at certain angles allows you to melee through an object hitting the target, while its projectile based attacks on you are nullified by the wall. This tactic was abused to great effect on SEp3 (meleeing through the door)before the twin champions were finally patched to be able to walk.
4. Walling/pillaring may draw a lot of ranged mobs into melee range, either for increased damage via cleave, or occasionally to nullify their attacks with limited-AoE range blinds. This is used in the start of CoE for all paths, SEp3, CMp2, ACp2, TA-U and a few others.

Other than these there are a lot of situations where people wall even though there really isn’t a ‘need’ to. It helps for WWA, can be problematic for back-alignment based thieves and rangers, and is downright suicidal for the spider (poison/spit rotation) boss in TA-Up.