Guild Wars 2

I agree with OP, Anet should make this game more like a traditional mmo so OP can complain that this game is nothing more than a WoW clone /sarcasm.

Srsly though, I bought this game for the PvP/WvW element, but I’ve found myself enjoying the PvE stuff a lot. I’m sure once I have done a few alts that will fade and I’ll go to WvW but for now I’m enjoying the content I have.

Tokki.8507:

Different is not always good. “The end game starts at level 1”, see how they are linked? Even beyond that, at hitting 80 you replace all of your gear with a few shallow tiers of gear (For example in crafting there is the yellow 80 only version of the gear you buy patterns for with karma and then the 80 exotic which does have better stats.) Do you see the trend that just falls off suddenly?

The stats differential is very minor between yellows and exotics. It isn’t anything to get excited about, in my opinion, or akin to gear progression in other MMOs — which is fine, because that is the design of this game.

Here’s what I’m going to do after I get my first toon to 80. I’m going to make another class that I can explore and experiment with and I know that the storyline will NOT be the same as I go — given the diverse choices you have in your personal story all the way through, there are multiple paths to the end. Sure, the zones and heart questlines will be the same, but I’ll greatly enjoy learning how to play another class without this mad rush to end-game. By the time I have a couple set up, there will be updates that will expand on end-game (I would assume, but you never know), and then I can pick and choose what class I want to play in which parts of the new updates.

For me, the game is still entirely engrossing, but I’ve never been that hard-core raider mentality. I enjoy the journey, not the reward, and that’s why the innovations in this game that allow me to revisit areas and still be challenged are ideal. Perhaps I’m unique that way.

We’ve been programmed by the big MMO-makers out there to want that carrot, and frankly I believe that kind of development lacks imagination. It’s a timesink between expansions. It’s simply a grind, and honestly, it’s not what I’m looking for in gameplay. I understand that the first MMO’s out there that kind of set the tone were based on grinding, but I don’t find it enjoyable and while those folks who raid are usually to most vocal on forums, the typical player is happy with casual gameplay that entertains and engrosses with original content and design. And GW2 has that in spades.

I srs hope this doesnt become a gear tread mill, i want to get my armour max stats and stay like there until i want like in gw1.

Am betting we just gona get new epic skins, i hope we get “The Ugly Stick” back
I loved beating ppl with that thing

To those that don’t like the gear treadmill endgame….okay….then why do them? MMOs are such a perfect microcosm of how real society works. Every action we take we take for a reason. If you don’t provide some incentive for doing something, why do it? And don’t tell me ‘so I can say I did it’. There aren’t enough people who will be satisfied with just that to warrant its inclusion in a game. There has to be some type of reward for partaking in these difficult end game trials. The problem I think GW2 may fall into is there adherence to the notion that they don’t want to allow anyone to be any better than anyone else gear wise. That leaves them with only the option of ‘good looking’ gear for end game. The problem with that is that is pretty subjective and not everyone is going to agree on that.

Now I am no where near 80, so I don’t need to concern myself with it yet, but right now it’s sound as though it could be a bit lacking in terms of rewards. It sounds like a lot of grinding for rewards that aren’t very functional in game. Again leaving the developers to ask themselves what reason does a player have to partake in this event if they feel the reward for doing so has no value?

Hartigan.1486:

To those that don’t like the gear treadmill endgame….okay….then why do them? MMOs are such a perfect microcosm of how real society works. Every action we take we take for a reason. If you don’t provide some incentive for doing something, why do it? And don’t tell me ‘so I can say I did it’. There aren’t enough people who will be satisfied with just that to warrant its inclusion in a game. There has to be some type of reward for partaking in these difficult end game trials. The problem I think GW2 may fall into is there adherence to the notion that they don’t want to allow anyone to be any better than anyone else gear wise. That leaves them with only the option of ‘good looking’ gear for end game. The problem with that is that is pretty subjective and not everyone is going to agree on that.

Now I am no where near 80, so I don’t need to concern myself with it yet, but right now it’s sound as though it could be a bit lacking in terms of rewards. It sounds like a lot of grinding for rewards that aren’t very functional in game. Again leaving the developers to ask themselves what reason does a player have to partake in this event if they feel the reward for doing so has no value?

You say “value”… let’s think about this for a second.

In a gear treadmill, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has better stats on it that before. The better stats is only in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, since the next PvE challenge will be tuned according to these inflated stats.

In GW2, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has basically the same stats as before. Your stats are still about the same in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, and to the next PvE challenge as it is tuned for the “maximum” power a character could have.

So the only real difference between these models is the ability to inflate your stats so far above other players who haven’t dedicated the time you have.

Therefore, we can reduce this to a simple statement – Players who insist that they need a gear progression system to enjoy a game are simply trying to create a sense of superiority and elitism in themselves, and those they play with.

The ONLY thing you lose in this system is your artificial sense of power and exclusivity.

Hartigan.1486:

To those that don’t like the gear treadmill endgame….okay….then why do them? MMOs are such a perfect microcosm of how real society works. Every action we take we take for a reason. If you don’t provide some incentive for doing something, why do it? And don’t tell me ‘so I can say I did it’. There aren’t enough people who will be satisfied with just that to warrant its inclusion in a game. There has to be some type of reward for partaking in these difficult end game trials. The problem I think GW2 may fall into is there adherence to the notion that they don’t want to allow anyone to be any better than anyone else gear wise. That leaves them with only the option of ‘good looking’ gear for end game. The problem with that is that is pretty subjective and not everyone is going to agree on that.

Now I am no where near 80, so I don’t need to concern myself with it yet, but right now it’s sound as though it could be a bit lacking in terms of rewards. It sounds like a lot of grinding for rewards that aren’t very functional in game. Again leaving the developers to ask themselves what reason does a player have to partake in this event if they feel the reward for doing so has no value?

The core concept of this game is fun for its own sake. If you need the carrot to have fun, then you won’t like the game. I love that design, and I also love that the Skinner folks don’t like it, because every other MMO is Skinner, and you have have your Skinner needs catered to elsewhere.

Looking at people who think, that 100 dunges is too much to get your endgame gear is kinda funny. U can repeat same instance 5 times in a row, so you will be done within 20 days. In other NC Soft’s games (LAII Aion and I know it cuz I played both) you could farm your endgame gear for years So GW2 is kinda of a dream-come-true for people who got tired if gear grind fest in such a games. GW2 was the whole new philosophy of mmo that you not suppose to gear-to-win, so let it be like it. Lets us pvp and rely on our skills and experience, not on gears that we grind. KITTEN

Here’s my guess at ANet’s business thinking:

GW2 (non-beta) is less than a month old. The vast majority of players are still leveling and enjoying the PvE story. A good percentage of players who level one toon will then swith to another race/profession to level a new toon. The game comes with 5 slots, but there a 5 races and 8 professions. ANet is probably hoping a good numebr of fans will buy new character slots to add races/professions. From ANet’s perspective, there is amore than enough content to keep the vast majority of its customers happy. At the same time, as ANet proved in GW1, it likes to keep its dedicated fanbase happy and engaged.

Remember that Prophecies did not have green items and Factions did not have runes/insignias. ANet turned GW1 into a legacy by constantly adding expansions/upgrades. If it worked in the past, it will work again. I would expect new dungeons, new armor, new weapons, and new skills as time goes on.

Also, I think that EotN showed that you can expand a game without increasing the level cap. That was an expansion where every player began at lvl 20 and every player ended at lvl 20, but there was a lot of engaging content, a good deal of PvE strategy, and while many played for prestige items or titles, alot just had fun enjoying the new storyline and environments.

The only question is whether they will ask us to plunk down another $59.99 for the next “game” (really, an expansion), or if they can somehow expand a (quasi-)FTP and stay in business.

Sky.9347:

Hartigan.1486:

To those that don’t like the gear treadmill endgame….okay….then why do them? MMOs are such a perfect microcosm of how real society works. Every action we take we take for a reason. If you don’t provide some incentive for doing something, why do it? And don’t tell me ‘so I can say I did it’. There aren’t enough people who will be satisfied with just that to warrant its inclusion in a game. There has to be some type of reward for partaking in these difficult end game trials. The problem I think GW2 may fall into is there adherence to the notion that they don’t want to allow anyone to be any better than anyone else gear wise. That leaves them with only the option of ‘good looking’ gear for end game. The problem with that is that is pretty subjective and not everyone is going to agree on that.

Now I am no where near 80, so I don’t need to concern myself with it yet, but right now it’s sound as though it could be a bit lacking in terms of rewards. It sounds like a lot of grinding for rewards that aren’t very functional in game. Again leaving the developers to ask themselves what reason does a player have to partake in this event if they feel the reward for doing so has no value?

You say “value”… let’s think about this for a second.

In a gear treadmill, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has better stats on it that before. The better stats is only in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, since the next PvE challenge will be tuned according to these inflated stats.

In GW2, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has basically the same stats as before. Your stats are still about the same in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, and to the next PvE challenge as it is tuned for the “maximum” power a character could have.

So the only real difference between these models is the ability to inflate your stats so far above other players who haven’t dedicated the time you have.

Therefore, we can reduce this to a simple statement – Players who insist that they need a gear progression system to enjoy a game are simply trying to create a sense of superiority and elitism in themselves, and those they play with.

The ONLY thing you lose in this system is your artificial sense of power and exclusivity.

Lots of people require a carrot on a stick to continue playing, something to work for. Why should I go on playing this the get cool armor (Lets face it all the coolest looking armor is going to be from the shop.) when I can get meaningful and cool looking armor in WoW, SWTOR or a plethora of other MMOs?

For me this is where the game has failed me (Among other things) as someone who really doesn’t care about wPvP (And since sPvP doesn’t give Exp…) this game wasn’t worth the 90$ I paid for it.

sterrell.2780:

Here’s my guess at ANet’s business thinking:

GW2 (non-beta) is less than a month old. The vast majority of players are still leveling and enjoying the PvE story. A good percentage of players who level one toon will then swith to another race/profession to level a new toon. The game comes with 5 slots, but there a 5 races and 8 professions. ANet is probably hoping a good numebr of fans will buy new character slots to add races/professions. From ANet’s perspective, there is amore than enough content to keep the vast majority of its customers happy. At the same time, as ANet proved in GW1, it likes to keep its dedicated fanbase happy and engaged.

Remember that Prophecies did not have green items and Factions did not have runes/insignias. ANet turned GW1 into a legacy by constantly adding expansions/upgrades. If it worked in the past, it will work again. I would expect new dungeons, new armor, new weapons, and new skills as time goes on.

Also, I think that EotN showed that you can expand a game without increasing the level cap. That was an expansion where every player began at lvl 20 and every player ended at lvl 20, but there was a lot of engaging content, a good deal of PvE strategy, and while many played for prestige items or titles, alot just had fun enjoying the new storyline and environments.

The only question is whether they will ask us to plunk down another $59.99 for the next “game” (really, an expansion), or if they can somehow expand a (quasi-)FTP and stay in business.

I agree with the concept of capped expansion, but I fully expect that they will be paid expansions like we had in GW1.

Snaylor.2760:

Lots of people require a carrot on a stick to continue playing, something to work for. Why should I go on playing this the get cool armor (Lets face it all the coolest looking armor is going to be from the shop.) when I can get meaningful and cool looking armor in WoW, SWTOR or a plethora of other MMOs?

If that’s what you need, that’s where you need to go.

Anet made it very, very clear during the development phase that this game was not designed around heavy stat-gear progression at endgame. It’s designed like GW1 was, with stat capped gear being relatively easily obtained, and cool looking gear being harder to obtain. This worked in GW1, and it will work in GW2, but it will not work with people who need the carrot to keep playing. That’s fine — game wasn’t designed for you.

When WoW came out there was little or no competition out there, there was not battlegrounds, and little to no end game dungeons (short ones too). People kept playing and didnt quit because there wasnt a lot of other options then. World random pvp was what everyone did that rushed to max level. WoW made a boatload of money and dumped it into expansion after expansion with more and more end game content.

I’m referencing this because everyone fails to realize there will not be a ton of end game pve content at any games release yet everytime a new game comes out….people flock to it, rush to max level, and complain there isnt enough to do. These things take time and may eventually come but as some people pointed out, this game was really created more as a focus around WvW

knightblaster.8027:

Snaylor.2760:

Lots of people require a carrot on a stick to continue playing, something to work for. Why should I go on playing this the get cool armor (Lets face it all the coolest looking armor is going to be from the shop.) when I can get meaningful and cool looking armor in WoW, SWTOR or a plethora of other MMOs?

If that’s what you need, that’s where you need to go.

Anet made it very, very clear during the development phase that this game was not designed around heavy stat-gear progression at endgame. It’s designed like GW1 was, with stat capped gear being relatively easily obtained, and cool looking gear being harder to obtain. This worked in GW1, and it will work in GW2, but it will not work with people who need the carrot to keep playing. That’s fine — game wasn’t designed for you.

Oh no I just want some end game PvE. This game is lacking in that too.

Snaylor.2760:

Sky.9347:

Hartigan.1486:

To those that don’t like the gear treadmill endgame….okay….then why do them? MMOs are such a perfect microcosm of how real society works. Every action we take we take for a reason. If you don’t provide some incentive for doing something, why do it? And don’t tell me ‘so I can say I did it’. There aren’t enough people who will be satisfied with just that to warrant its inclusion in a game. There has to be some type of reward for partaking in these difficult end game trials. The problem I think GW2 may fall into is there adherence to the notion that they don’t want to allow anyone to be any better than anyone else gear wise. That leaves them with only the option of ‘good looking’ gear for end game. The problem with that is that is pretty subjective and not everyone is going to agree on that.

Now I am no where near 80, so I don’t need to concern myself with it yet, but right now it’s sound as though it could be a bit lacking in terms of rewards. It sounds like a lot of grinding for rewards that aren’t very functional in game. Again leaving the developers to ask themselves what reason does a player have to partake in this event if they feel the reward for doing so has no value?

You say “value”… let’s think about this for a second.

In a gear treadmill, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has better stats on it that before. The better stats is only in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, since the next PvE challenge will be tuned according to these inflated stats.

In GW2, you grind or whatever and you get rewarded with cool-looking gear that has basically the same stats as before. Your stats are still about the same in relation to everyone who hasn’t got this gear, and to the next PvE challenge as it is tuned for the “maximum” power a character could have.

So the only real difference between these models is the ability to inflate your stats so far above other players who haven’t dedicated the time you have.

Therefore, we can reduce this to a simple statement – Players who insist that they need a gear progression system to enjoy a game are simply trying to create a sense of superiority and elitism in themselves, and those they play with.

The ONLY thing you lose in this system is your artificial sense of power and exclusivity.

Lots of people require a carrot on a stick to continue playing, something to work for. Why should I go on playing this the get cool armor (Lets face it all the coolest looking armor is going to be from the shop.) when I can get meaningful and cool looking armor in WoW, SWTOR or a plethora of other MMOs?

For me this is where the game has failed me (Among other things) as someone who really doesn’t care about wPvP (And since sPvP doesn’t give Exp…) this game wasn’t worth the 90$ I paid for it.

Perhaps you should’ve read about the game before you bought it then?

PS, you play the game to have fun. If all you want is a second job, I suggest you apply at Wal-Mart.

In my personal opinion, I do think the end-game PVE and PVP are both extremely boring. People talking about no loot grind? lol you’re obviously grinding for “new looks”. But there’s no real sense of accomplishment. In PVE I’m just killing bosses to “look cool” in PVP I’m killing players to “look cool”. Who cares about looks, who cares about the graphics, I’ve seen games that look 10x worse and do better off. Have fun knowing some scrub can get to level 2 six months later, come into end game pvp and faceroll 1-5 and kill you. I’m sorry but all this care-bear fair and balanced stuff is boring. And why isn’t there real-world PVP? Ganking while questing adds a whole new aspect to the game and is very enjoyable to quite a few people.

You people need to play DarkSouls then come back and tell me how you feel, after playing that game you’ll get a real sense of accomplishment, after every boss kill you’ll stand up and scream PRAISE THE SUN! Doesn’t it feel good dying 100+ times then finally being rewarded nicely? Now tell me how that feels in guild wars 2, oh you killed a boss here re-skin your armor. And I’m sorry but games now days don’t challenge the players mind enough, and are becoming way too easy and way too noob friendly. Dying and getting ganked should be a major part of the game, and people should learn to overcome it by improving on their skills. I would love to have higher stats gear so I can see amazing players and be like “Oh I would love to be like that guy some day…” then be Inspired to try harder, and conquer. But we all know in our little hearts this will never happen at least with no significant changes for quite some time if any. Now that my rant is over..back to playing some 2d game or a freebie.

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