Guild Wars 2

Several good friends of mine have always tried to convert me to WvW but I admit it has been never my cup of tea. For their sake, explain to me why WvW should be more fun or at least equal to PvE. My friends are counting on you and your abilities in smartiness. =)
There are some concerns I have especially for WvW.

1. I hate PvP. For some reason WvW has always been shoved in with PvE, why? Because there are a few random mobs sprinkeled around? The PvP part is the entire point? I am a great fan of co-op, but the PvP part still the biggest part that puts me off. I never played a PvP match in GW2, would rather saw my arm off.
2. It’s mostly about zerging. If I want mindless running in a horde, I’ll go on the champ train in Frostgorge. Has better loot. Small groups have barely any impact. Single players are just easy killcount.
3. It feels like I have no impact at all. Ran around in a small group (3-5) turning camps. Once we leave, camp immediately turns back. Feels like effort not well spent.
4. I feel unwanted. Server space is limited. As someone who is not an uber-pwns-m45ter I usually feel like I’m just stealing someones place who could have more of an impact than I do.

So please alleviate my issues and enlighten me to join the WvW path of the game.
Waiting for some good arguments =)

Info: current WvW status: lvl 15 n00b, but I have two commanders very intend on teaching me once I finally stumble back into the WvW server because I took a wrong turn in Lions Arch =p

If you don’t want to play wvw don’t. Why should anyone need to convince you one way or another. Some people enjoy it some don’t.

To add a question for those who played WoW: Is WvW like Battlegrounds? I haven’t tried WvW yet and am debating whether I want to or not. I also don’t like PvP in general, but some of the games were kind of fun.

I think you have very wrong idea of what WvW experience is.
1) PvP in WvW is more for small group/solo roamers taking camps, killing yaks, or other small objectives. If you don’t like PvP, then don’t do these tasks instead join a zerg which brings to your point 2.
2) WvW zerg is nothing like PvE zerg. If you fight mindlessly like PvE you will be dead in 5 sec. If a skilled commander leading WvW zerg goes to EotM and fight PvE zerg, WvW zerg will destroy PvE zerg event if PvE zerg have 3 times more numbers. SKilled commanders will tell you to use stability and run through enemy zerg and get their back line, then DPS on commander tag. They will scream for waterfields when zerg needs it. They will tell you exactly where to go. Go left, right, take stairs, jump off wall, stack for might. When to use mass invisibility. WvW commanders are busy people…
3) When it get serious people do defend camps. Doesn’t happen all the time.
4) Sooner or later you will be lvl 80 with full exotic or better!

free karma free exp free gold
chuck norris wvws
dont want to pvp? start with edge of the mist, its a karma train
very few battles all you do is flip towers and camps etc.

Just to clarify something – solo players and small groups are far from useless… you just have to avoid going toe-to-toe with a zerg!

You can cap a tower with 4+ people if you work fast and cooperate, and a single player can easily cap a camp solo :-)

WvW zergs are nothing like PvE zergs, as the others have said.

If you have been in a high tier server (T2/T1) where the commander is yelling out commands over VOIP, you’ll quickly realise it’s not a zzzfest. Also, havoc groups (aka, “roamer groups”) do actually make a big difference in WvW. They are the hidden swiss army knife and eyes-in-back-of-head of a commander’s toolkit, so to speak. They can scout, they can upgrade things for you, they can claim buffs on your towers, they can roam around taking camps which early on in the WvW week can make a HUGE difference… the list doesn’t end.

So am i correct to assume, that you HAVE to be on some kind of VOIP, to be able to even keep up with the commander?
In a game that doesn´t have that feature built in? Feels kind of wrong to me

Voip helps with the fun anyway when you’re playing with others. GW2 combat is never stationary so during combat you can not talk by chat, so that’s not an issue.

My server ranks pretty meh, even within bronze tier. Might explain why I experienced WvW groups more as random zergs. Going with my private commander in mini groups was more fun, because I felt more involved, but the large zergs were always just body count.

Meluna.1764:

1. I hate PvP. For some reason WvW has always been shoved in with PvE, why? Because there are a few random mobs sprinkeled around? The PvP part is the entire point? I am a great fan of co-op, but the PvP part still the biggest part that puts me off. I never played a PvP match in GW2, would rather saw my arm off.
2. It’s mostly about zerging. If I want mindless running in a horde, I’ll go on the champ train in Frostgorge. Has better loot. Small groups have barely any impact. Single players are just easy killcount.
3. It feels like I have no impact at all. Ran around in a small group (3-5) turning camps. Once we leave, camp immediately turns back. Feels like effort not well spent.
4. I feel unwanted. Server space is limited. As someone who is not an uber-pwns-m45ter I usually feel like I’m just stealing someones place who could have more of an impact than I do.

1. Well, you can focus on the PvP parts of taking unoccupied structures (camps if solo, towers with small group)
2. Untrue. It’s only “about” zerging if you make it so. You can easily spend hours in WvW solo or with a small group.
3. But you do have impact. A camp is safe for the first five minutes, which can be a complete game changer if you happen to take a nearby camp while a zerg is organising an assault on a keep. Interrupting the supply chain means that the enemies cannot build siege or cannot repair their structures, both of which are very important factors.
4. While that is true, the opposite is equally true. Your spot could be taken by a troll who’s sole joy is to build useless siege and take golems for ropeless bungee off a cliff. Or even worse, spies from the opposing servers that would leak the positions and details of your team.

One thing that tends to separate roaming in WvW from PvE is that there is a lack of proper tangible measure to your success. Understanding that your actions have impact even if you don’t see a shiny thingamajing telling you that you wtfpwnzed that kitten is what changes WvW from a “zergfest” to the ridiculously popular gamemode that it is.

Yobculture.5786:

WvW zergs are nothing like PvE zergs, as the others have said.

If you have been in a high tier server (T2/T1) where the commander is yelling out commands over VOIP, you’ll quickly realise it’s not a zzzfest. Also, havoc groups (aka, “roamer groups”) do actually make a big difference in WvW. They are the hidden swiss army knife and eyes-in-back-of-head of a commander’s toolkit, so to speak. They can scout, they can upgrade things for you, they can claim buffs on your towers, they can roam around taking camps which early on in the WvW week can make a HUGE difference… the list doesn’t end.

Yep. Playing with good WvW commanders on TS on a T1/T2 server makes you realize there is definite strategy and coordination involved and not just a zergfest. Coordinate buffs, dodges, retreats, pushes, it’s all done in beautiful coordination.

1. You can always take camps/towers, cutting off supply from enemies, keeping eyes on the enemy, defending your keep via siege etc. These are very essential tasks in WvW which does not involve PvP what-so-ever (until the enemy finds out).
2. I’m not in a T1/T2 server, and my server does not have the numbers as big as they do. In many cases, my server is usually outnumbered by other servers that we face but many times we have taken zergs out that are bigger. It’s not just a numbers game but coordination and knowing your profession well too (Plus an excellent commander and followers)
3. Flipping camps does IMPACTS your server (Cuts off supplies from enemies, and moar supplies for you!) . Killing off yaks IMPACTS your server (Preventing enemies from uprgading their keep) . Building SIEGE at your keep IMPACTS your server (taking out 5 enemies with one AC hohoho). Keeping eyes on the enemy zerg and watching where they go IMPACTS your server (Watching enemy movements).
4. We were all once newbies.

That being said, I personally like WvW for the following reasons:

1. You get to know other players well. It’s all about knowing others and working together. Some of the people I met in WvW are also my dungeon regulars/guildies/friends.
2. More challenging in that we are VSing people instead of AIs. The NPCS in WvW are also more challenging than in PvE. You’ll learn the importance of dodging, CDs and knowing your profession well.
3. WvW isn’t all about attack, attack and attack. Play defence and you can still get loot. A lot.
4. Sense of achievement and victory when your server has taken out a zerg/capture a keep.

Most importantly, it’s all about the community that keeps me going into WvW.

If you dont like it, why do you need to be convinced to play? If you feel you wont have and fun and dont jump in to try for yourself, chances are nothing anyone can say will make you want to. I dont much care for it myself, but I jump in occasionally. That being said, is a whole dfferent game that PvE. Much different playstle, mindset, and skill sets are required. If you have someone willing to teach you, go for it, you dont have anything to ose. You may just find you do enjoy it. Its like the matrix, one cannot tell you what WvWvW is, you , must experience it for yourself.

Good luck and have fun!

You need it for map completion. That is the only reason I go there. Waiting for Blue Garrison to become controlled by my server. Then I will have 100% map.

WvW is co-op! It’s your team/zerg vs another. Within a zerg you have your front line/hammer train and your backline/casters. These players are (hopefully) running builds that are beneficial to a group. This gets more coordinated with skill groups and guild groups, which usually have required builds and everyone working in sync to defeat the enemy.

You are making a difference when you flip camps- even if they immediately flip it back. It takes time to upgrade those camps to full supply and for them to deliver double supply to towers and keeps. When you flip the camp, you’re resetting that process.

Nobody can convince you to like wvw. You need to play it a fair amount to learn what’s going on and where you fit in (zerging, havoc, solo roaming). Join your server’s teamspeak or whatever they use, and see if you have fun with them

Meluna.1764:

Several good friends of mine have always tried to convert me to WvW but I admit it has been never my cup of tea. For their sake, explain to me why WvW should be more fun or at least equal to PvE. My friends are counting on you and your abilities in smartiness. =)
There are some concerns I have especially for WvW.

1. I hate PvP. For some reason WvW has always been shoved in with PvE, why? Because there are a few random mobs sprinkeled around? The PvP part is the entire point? I am a great fan of co-op, but the PvP part still the biggest part that puts me off. I never played a PvP match in GW2, would rather saw my arm off.
2. It’s mostly about zerging. If I want mindless running in a horde, I’ll go on the champ train in Frostgorge. Has better loot. Small groups have barely any impact. Single players are just easy killcount.
3. It feels like I have no impact at all. Ran around in a small group (3-5) turning camps. Once we leave, camp immediately turns back. Feels like effort not well spent.
4. I feel unwanted. Server space is limited. As someone who is not an uber-pwns-m45ter I usually feel like I’m just stealing someones place who could have more of an impact than I do.

So please alleviate my issues and enlighten me to join the WvW path of the game.
Waiting for some good arguments =)

Info: current WvW status: lvl 15 n00b, but I have two commanders very intend on teaching me once I finally stumble back into the WvW server because I took a wrong turn in Lions Arch =p

1. Lvl 15? Bro, PvP is something you learn to like over time as you become more experienced. And in WvW you won’t just learn PvP, you’ll learn unfair PvP. You will learn to pick your fights, outnumbered fighting and chasing fleeing or upscaled players. And if you want to be safe for a while, a big zerg protects you very well as long as you stay close.

2. Yes, it is a lot of Zerging, but its not as mindless as PvE. There are always quiet a few ways to support the zerg depending on your class, chose your role wisely. The battlefield behaves a lot more chaotic and unpredictable than a PvE area.

3. If the camp turned back five minutes later, it wasn’t because a timer ran out like when a mob respawns. It was because a player saw the loss of the outpost and reacted to it, went there fought the whole camp and took it back. You could have stayed there and defended it.

4. You are wanted. On most times on my server, there are no queues or a maximum of 2 to 3 people. the zerg gets stronger with every single player. And if there are actually people trying to mob you out, you can still join the Edge of the mists.

I’d say edge of the mists (big fun for pve players imo), but since it’s actually your friends trying to get you in, I don’t know. If playing with friends won’t convince you, I don’t know what would.

Name.9625:

So am i correct to assume, that you HAVE to be on some kind of VOIP, to be able to even keep up with the commander?
In a game that doesn´t have that feature built in? Feels kind of wrong to me

Games that have built in voip: the voip usually sucks. What happens is you hear every random idiot mouth breathing in to their mic. Every dog barking. Every 12 year old who wont stop running his mouth like verbal diarrhea. Every teenager listening to their rap or dubstep too loud. Every peasant with a laptop mic that sounds like Satan feeding a chalk board in to a wood chipper. You end up spending inordinate amounts of time searching for these culprits and muting them, while listening to everyone else complain about the noise.

No… None of that please. 3rd party voip is fine with me.

P.S. I used to be a console pleb. I remember when private party chat came out for Xbox Live. Suddenly no one ever talked in-game anymore. Everyone was in private chat. So even when people had the option for in-game voice, they chose to separate themselves into private instances of voip, which is effectively the same as using a 3rd party client. Again, it allows you to avoid the horrible cacophony of random people, avoid stupid verbal abuse from idiots who want to compare kitten, and you even have the benefit of chatting with friends who aren’t playing with you.

Thank you all for your input. I guess I’ll give in and hobble along with my private commanders poking camps, since you say it actually does help and I get to play with my friends =)

PS: lvl 15 is my WvW level. Was supposed to say I was there a little, but not too much. I have 9 lvl80s in exotic gear, 3 of which I have used in WvW. Now I just need to decide which one to use =D

Meluna you’re correct in your OP. Everything you said is true and I feel the same way; that’s why I don’t like to WvW either… very sparingly.

Meluna.1764:

Thank you all for your input. I guess I’ll give in and hobble along with my private commanders poking camps, since you say it actually does help and I get to play with my friends =)

PS: lvl 15 is my WvW level. Was supposed to say I was there a little, but not too much. I have 9 lvl80s in exotic gear, 3 of which I have used in WvW. Now I just need to decide which one to use =D

Small Havoc activities can be great fun with friends, especially if you and your friends build you class around eachother for maximum result.

I might be a bit late, but for me (as a player who only does WvW) there is a big variety in experiencing WvW.
It all depends in what you like to do, if that is to follow the blue dot on the map with the other 50 players then it can become boring really fast, unless you are dedicated to the game mode or are sort of braindead.

Small havoc with guild/friends. I do this myself a lot, by playing WvW you will meet people who do the same, out of nowhere (atleast in my case) we team up to do all kind of small activity that contribute in a great way to the server.

Roaming, with this i mean solo or in pares, since IMHO i find everything bigger then 2 a havoc activity. Roaming for me means solo capping camps, sniping dolyaks, scouting enemy groups, contesting, picking off stranglers. All the small things you can do to help the commander or havoc group to achieving its goal. Besides that solo roam for duels in WvW can be great aswell. I do this on my Ranger since people tend to bump in to you for an easy kill, well they are in for a suprise then

Besides all of this, you can also join a WvW guild who raids each or multiple days in the week. Its all more organized, and gives (atleast it gives me) more satisfaction then lets say joining a blue dot on the map (pug zerg). In these guilds, there will be people doing all the stuff above it aswell (most of the times atleast).

Hope this helps a bit. At the end if you don’t enjoy it, you better not play it.
But giving it a few weeks and you will grow in it, becoming better and perhaps start liking a few aspects in WvW.

Take care and have fun

It was a great help. I love to read all your opinions and what you love about WvW in particular.

I like to compare WvW with coffee. When were kids, the majority of us hated coffee nor had interest in it, as Adults we love coffee and are dependent on it. Of course it’s just a metaphor, but what im trying to say is, just because you didn’t like it before, you might like it now give it a few more chances.

1.goto a tier 1-2 server
2.join the ts3
3.follow the commander
4.have fun

(coordination is key + it makes it fun)

On the whole flipping of camps. They might take them back over (if you don’t defend it ) but if you and your team mates can bleed it dry and take all the supply that is the most important part or even work with the zerg and see where they are going next and have the camp already taken so they can get supply and run.

Pay me 50g and ill do it..otherwise..gtfo and go play whatever u want….