Guild Wars 2

TLDR: thief,engi,mesmer or necro?

I’ve been away quite a few months and i believe i’ve finally decided to level at least one character up to level 80 (yeah, got the game since release and yet didn’t manage to reach level 80, silly me).
However, last time i played thieves were bursting everything down,rangers sucked, mesmers would win almost any duel, a group without guardians wouldn’t be a group…so…checking the forums it seems things have changed quite alot.
I’ve been reading that mesmers are now weak in pvp, that celestial meta happened, that thieves broken to pieces…so i’m questioning my old choices and i’d finally like to put a nail on the coffin.
Since traits are now kind of painful to obtain (and costly), i’ll purely focus on only one character, thus this choice will matter alot.

Now, my most important mode is probably pvp/wvw, but i need to be able to pve decently.
I tend to switch builds and abilities really really often, so it’s a must that i like many of a profession’s abilities, not just a few good ones.
Additionally, i really enjoy low cooldowns (i prefer spamming small magnitude abilities rather than using a few powerful ones rarely), condition damage and being able to sustain multiple opponents’ damage (by either evading, blocking or mitigating it).
Lastly, i usually focus on buffing myself rather than debuffing my opponent.

Taking those points in consideration, here are the classes i probably won’t choose:
Warrior: tried it and thus far i only liked mace/shield+hammer bunker.
Guardian: really don’t like the profession as a whole
Elementalist: the attunement system makes me feel locked, i don’t like many of the traits as many work against each other (attunement ones for example)
Ranger: too many utilities i don’t like, i dislike being forced to have a pet.

Thus, the classes left are thief,engineer,mesmer and necromancer.
It’s tricky because my choice has always been about these four, but in over three years i couldn’t decide yet.

Thief:
+ stealth on demand (it’s something i just love)
+ lotsa evades
+ no cooldowns on weapon skills
+ mobility mobility mobility
- many underused utilities
- needs stealth(for pvp)
- some weapon sets don’t really work (condition and power on the same kit? wut?)
- apparently nerfed alot

Engineer:
+ can do it all
+ has kits, i like kits, kits are good
+ turrets shoot for me! look! without hands!
+ has many “you better leave this area” mechanics, which i really like
- you MUST bring kits with you, at least one. rip utility slots.
- what’s condition removal?
- bursty builds require a combo to be swiftly performed (i prefer to time my big hitters, hi thief!)

Necromancer:
+ eats conditions for breakfast
+ death shroud is kitten: extra health, low cooldown, good abilities stored inside…sign me up!
+ wells and marks fuel my need for area denial
- apparently looked upon in pve
- mobility? ain’t dodge enough? (no)
- reflect? you mean like…mirrors? (no..not at all)
- death shroud is much better vs one target than many (curse you spectral armor and spectral walk! gimmie life force for each attacker!)

Mesmer:
+ i LOVE clones! i’m everywhere!
+ has many dashes, teleports, dodges
+ easy to access stunbreaks and condi clear.
+ can do pretty much everything…
- you require a combo to be performed swiftly with power builds, they also have a clear setup (i mean, you just see a mesmer dodging a few times and throwing you a clone…)
- as far as i know, they don’t bunker well at all
- condition damage seems lackluster on them
- out of combat speed is painful

So, now that i’ve listed why i like/dislike each of the left over profession, i’d be glad if anybody could chime in as i really can’t make up my mind…

Added a tldr…also…bumpy flick of justice?

You have 5 free character slots to play with.
As for mesmer condi their focus is more confusion and torment so they are great to pair with necro, ele or thief whose focus is on other conditions. Having something walk itself to death is an interesting thing to see.

Yargesh.4965:

You have 5 free character slots to play with.
As for mesmer condi their focus is more confusion and torment so they are great to pair with necro, ele or thief whose focus is on other conditions. Having something walk itself to death is an interesting thing to see.

Mesmers also inflit lotsa burning with wind of chaos…and bleeding too.
Issue is that glamour builds are IMO too weak to use to apply conditions, plus they require a setup (having illusions up) to apply burning and bleeding. At that point a power build would perform better i think.

I just… don’t know what to choose! I like and dislike them all the same way, it’s frustrating lol!

Roll a die, set 2 numbers per class.

Yargesh.4965:

Roll a die, set 2 numbers per class.

I don’t have a 8 sided dice

two wildcard/roll over then

Yargesh.4965:

two wildcard/roll over then

Well,i’ve been trying them vs svanir in the mists and…
Thief is really enjoyable, but one mistake instantly got me killed, plus weirdly i’ve been killing my target faster with a bunker engi build than a full zerker backstab.
Plus my backstabs (with zero might, full berserker and flanking traits) were doing no more than 4k damage…wut?
Mesmer has been sweet, i really liked staff/scepter+torch (the new scepter is kinda cool, never tried it before lol)…however power builds didn’t cut it for me: i can’t teleport with my sword#3 if the clone’s dead (ty anet),svanir would kill any melee placed clones before i could summon three to shatter…so…eh…yeah.

Engineer’s been sweet, i tried a 4 kits build and it’s been cool. Unluckily he has too little condi clear and the gadget build i tried sucked as often i’d have all my cooldowns burned.
I’ve had a blast with a condi necro, unluckily any power build i tried (minions,wells,shroud) wasn’t any good.
Maybe i’ll delete my low level ranger (all slots used lol) and give other classes a try again… :s
Too many buts (with one T <3) to choose yet.

By the way, aside going full zerker, what can i do to improve my damage?
I’ve seen burning ticks hitting more than full zerker sword slices(crit) ò.ò

Don’t run numbers myself so you would be better going to individual subforums for a build guide.

I’ll try to make it short.

For PVP: You don’t need level 80 characters to enjoy PvP. With reward tracks, you will have enough Tome of Knowledge to level all your characters to 80 in a short time. I suggest trying all four of them in PvP to thoroughly understand their mechanics first.

For WvW: If your home world is truly competitive and requires a presence of level 80 only, then it’s time to think of what play style you want to follow and what role you’d like to fill. Necro is the heavy artillery in Zerg v Zerg, highly valuable for coordinated groups. Engi is a good roaming class with safe options for Zerg v Zerg. Both thief and mesmer have good escape ability and high single target damage. Mesmer will be often asked to become a veil bot. IF it’s not for you then they don’t really contribute much besides picking up strays.

For PvE: A certain individual mesmer has made the class almost godlike in solo high end content. The mesmer brings utilities to the group but it is weak against multiple mob’s pressure. The thief brings blind, stealth and engi brings burst and vuln/might stacking. These three classes are good for their group support. Necro has good DPS, it was underrated not because of its DPS or lacks in support. Its support isn’t half as good as the other speciallized class. Speed run groups don’t pick necro for their speed runs. Average PUG watch speed run videos without a necro and think they are bad. BUT, don’t ever forget that PUG don’t even produce 10% the amount of supports used in speed run records! Necro also has this minion master build which really damages its reputation.

In the end, I suggest you browse through this site: metabattle.com, try all the builds first, then read the guide carefully as you build up your 80.

I have all 8 classes and I think I understand each of them well enough.

Iris Ng.9845:

I’ll try to make it short.

For PVP: You don’t need level 80 characters to enjoy PvP. With reward tracks, you will have enough Tome of Knowledge to level all your characters to 80 in a short time. I suggest trying all four of them in PvP to thoroughly understand their mechanics first.

For WvW: If your home world is truly competitive and requires a presence of level 80 only, then it’s time to think of what play style you want to follow and what role you’d like to fill. Necro is the heavy artillery in Zerg v Zerg, highly valuable for coordinated groups. Engi is a good roaming class with safe options for Zerg v Zerg. Both thief and mesmer have good escape ability and high single target damage. Mesmer will be often asked to become a veil bot. IF it’s not for you then they don’t really contribute much besides picking up strays.

For PvE: A certain individual mesmer has made the class almost godlike in solo high end content. The mesmer brings utilities to the group but it is weak against multiple mob’s pressure. The thief brings blind, stealth and engi brings burst and vuln/might stacking. These three classes are good for their group support. Necro has good DPS, it was underrated not because of its DPS or lacks in support. Its support isn’t half as good as the other speciallized class. Speed run groups don’t pick necro for their speed runs. Average PUG watch speed run videos without a necro and think they are bad. BUT, don’t ever forget that PUG don’t even produce 10% the amount of supports used in speed run records! Necro also has this minion master build which really damages its reputation.

In the end, I suggest you browse through this site: metabattle.com, try all the builds first, then read the guide carefully as you build up your 80.

I have all 8 classes and I think I understand each of them well enough.

To be honest, i didn’t know playing pvp would net me tomes of knowledge…if they’re obtained swiftly enough then goodbye pve lol!
The site looks really helpful, i’ll definetly head off pvp to make up my mind.
=D

If you don’t like pve and want to level your characters fast then join eotm, follow zerg and you will be 80 in no time.

Eotm is pve, though.

Either way,i’ve been pvping all morning and here are the results:
Mesmer: did really well with a condi build, did ok with a shatter one.
Thief: did good with a backstab build, terrible with a sword/dagger, fine with a sword/pistol. terrible results with a pistol/dagger condi build.
Necro: Outstanding(!) results with a condi terror build (took down everybody on sight, never died even outnumbered), but absolutely terrible results trying a meta power build (especially infuriating when a stance axe/warrior three-shot me twice in a row)
Engi: meh results with a kit build, terrible ones with a hgh build.

Overall:
favourite builds: condi necro,condi mesmer, backstab d/p thief.
worst builds: power necro,s/d thief,condi thief

Issue: each profession has had builds i loved and hated… how can somebody choose in such an enviroment?!?

Answer to your issues: Great players practice to become the best of their class.

If you watch the Twitch streaming of some very best players, you can learn about their rotations, reaction in different encounters. I suggest you watch the official GW2 twitch on Sunday, when the ESL Go4GW2 Cup is live. You may find some inspiration to tweak your play style.

Iris Ng.9845:

Answer to your issues: Great players practice to become the best of their class.

If you watch the Twitch streaming of some very best players, you can learn about their rotations, reaction in different encounters. I suggest you watch the official GW2 twitch on Sunday, when the ESL Go4GW2 Cup is live. You may find some inspiration to tweak your play style.

I’ve seen thet wo matches of the dec 21 stream, it’s quite hard to understand what they’re doing because the view isn’t centered on them and moves too often (plus they often kept the view in one spot when somebody else was being downed in a different place).
The mesmer was basically a full support member, the thieves’ job was to run around and decap, while eles and engis did the most of the work.
Plus, by the amount of boons i’ve seen going, being a necro would’ve been so powerful in that situation: just corrupt boon an ele and place a well of corruption in the middle of the point, add a dagger #3 and the stomp is served.

Either way, i know a big chunk of the deal is knowing your profession and getting better at it… but it’s not easy for me to know that i’m choosing a class over half it’s potential.

edit

I’ve been playing some more (i have quite a few tomes now…and two full inventories lol).
I’ve put the nail in the coffin with the thief and the engi, so the choice is narrowed down to two professions.
I’ve tried harder with a necro power setup and this time it worked quite nicely (even tho i lost most of my matches due to poor team coordination).

Well…it’s a big improvement isn’kitten It’s lovely to see guardians and eles to melt theirselves, then trying to recover with some stability cantrips/save yourselves shout and turn all those goodies into conditions hehehe.

I’ll update the thread once i do the final decision =)

You may want to watch this guy’s stream for reference: http://www.twitch.tv/noscoc

Iris Ng.9845:

You may want to watch this guy’s stream for reference: http://www.twitch.tv/noscoc

It’s been quite a difficult decision at first, as the mesmer has much more mobility than the necro, has access to stealth, reflection and clones, but i chose the necro.
It’s just too rewarding for me to fear people to death…and if they retaliate with stability i can just not give a kitten and turn that into sweet terror.
It’s also really nice to know that if an engineer meets you, he/she’ll run away as fast as possible.

By the way, theorically, how does any profession (assuming both the players are really skilled) beat a necro assuming there’s no uneven terrain and no way to escape(like how most duels are arranged)?
Cleansing a terrormancer is kind of impossible, if you condi the necro then you get your conditions back with interests, if you buff yourself then everything gets converted to conditions (good thing corrupt boon prioritizes stability last).
All i can think about are abilities like berserker stance which don’t allow conditions to be applied at all…

kitten it it’s happening again! (sorry for the double post btw)
I’ve tried my thief again and after a generous amount of matches i actually started to do well (plus dropping shadow refuge just before being downed, waiting for the stealth to tick and then teleporting away is priceless).
So scrap that, it’s thief vs necro now! x)

Don’t do that Sr thing in tournament please ( it’s just a time loss and everyone with a brain will just throw aoes all over the place until they find you). I personally enjoy thief more in pvp, as it’s more fast paced and agressive. Necros are too slow for me.

Necro are good at holding point and in team fight. However, they are usually targeted and the first to die in deathmatch.

oxtred.7658:

Don’t do that Sr thing in tournament please ( it’s just a time loss and everyone with a brain will just throw aoes all over the place until they find you). I personally enjoy thief more in pvp, as it’s more fast paced and agressive. Necros are too slow for me.

Well, respawn time would’ve probably been 15 seconds, i was near the furthest c.point on the map, two opponents lost time attacking me and i managed to res myself…I’d call it a day!
Yeah, i wouldn’t do it in tournaments as they’d just leave one person capping and AoE’ing…but the results were positive this time

Iris Ng.9845:

Necro are good at holding point and in team fight. However, they are usually targeted and the first to die in deathmatch.

Well,the issue is that i’d love to be able to hold my own in fights, but i’d also like to have means to escape if the situation gets too hairy.
Today with my thief i’ve had to run away from many fights that i might’ve won with my necromancer, but i’ve escaped certain death too(then an ally helped me and we took them out <3).

Aside that, my main focus will be solo wvw roam (maybe with a friend or two), pvp and to a lesser extent dungeons…so thief might fit more?
kitten it’s a really hard decision.(by the way, i’d like to stay away from zerg vs zerg encounters as my pc drops to 20-30ish fps when that amount of players are on the screen)

Flipping question: if mesmers are used as veilbots because veil can stealth unlimited amounts of people for 4-5 seconds (or 8-10 if going through it twice)…why aren’t there shadow refuge thieves doing the same?
As far as i know (wiki says the same) SR has no limit to people it can stealth and lasts more too, at the cost of having to stand still for 4 seconds.
I mean, even if somebody only receives the last 2 ticks then it’d be better than veil already. ò.ò

SR has a 5 ( 10?) man cap.

You’d enjoy your thief more based on what you said. Necros and escape don’t go well together.

oxtred.7658:

SR has a 5 ( 10?) man cap.

You’d enjoy your thief more based on what you said. Necros and escape don’t go well together.

If people enter after sr has been placed, they still get stealthed.
Just tried it in spvp: popped sr where people spawn, 5-10 got stealthed, i walked in and got stealthed too (same for a random ranger).
It’s a circular veil with less cooldown! :O

Confirmed, it’s thief.
The final reason isn’t even related to combat...just...it’s the face asuras do when using unload.
The mini snowman even turned his back to me after discovering this. LOL.

ButterOfDeath.2873:

Confirmed, it’s thief.
The final reason isn’t even related to combat…just…it’s the face asuras do when using unload.
The mini snowman even turned his back to me after discovering this. LOL.

Congrats!

Actually it’s a little harder than i thought.
I’ve been playing thief for quite a bunch of hours and there are times i really feel totally useless, for example when i’m facing guardians or condi engis, regardless of the build i choose.

It feels very rock-paper-scissor to me: thieves can’t deal with guardians at all, engineers can only hope to escape from a condi necro, rangers have trouble with mesmers(dem reflects), etc etc.
It feels every profession has a fixed counter regardless of the build.

So question is: is my thought completely wrong? If yes, why? If no, which profession has the least amount of “fixed” counters that can’t be countered with particuliar builds(for example engineer vs condi necro, not even elixir C wouldn’t save you)?

better off asking in the PvP forum.

Yargesh.4965:

better off asking in the PvP forum.

Done. <3