Guild Wars 2

how much Power is equivalent to 1% crit dmg ? in term of dps

The answer is not that simple, because it depends on the base power and base crit.dmg.(%)

Let’s rearrange the question:
Given base P and base CD%, what power increase is needed to deal the same damage as if there was a 1% increase in CD%?

Power variation = P / (151 + CD%), this assuming the crit. hits (dependent of the Critical Chance).

Example:

If i start with 1000 Power and with 20% crit damage, i would deal the same damage on crit with increasing
1% Crit damage -> 1000 Power and 21% Crit Damage; (1% CD increase)
or increasing
Power -> 1005,8 Power and 20% Crit Damage (power equivalent to 1% CD increase)

in this case 5,8 points in power ~ 1% CD increase.

/cheers

PS: The math was done considering the formula:
Crit damage dealt = (150 + CD%) x P x K, where K is a constant not dependent of power and critical, shown here.

The value of 1% crit damage changes based on current power and crit chance.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/articles/calculator-faq/#effective-power

GW2buildcraft has an effective power formula, which is good for comparing different stat builds of the same class and weapons. The traits aren’t updated but you can still use the calculator.

alright i be honest im still a bit confused. i write out what i am trying to figure out.
current build has 3232 atk p 44% crit rate 112% crit dmg
second build would be 3114 atk p 47% crit rate 115% crit dmg

so my question is is 3% crit dmg better for my build then roughly 100 power i am losing ?.

0% crit dmg = 1.5x dmg on crit
1% crit dmg = 1.51x dmg on crit

So for 2000atk:
2000atk*1.5 = 3000 ==> 2000atk*(1.5-1) = 1000atk
2000atk*1.51 = 3020 ==> 1020atk*(1.51-1) = 1020atk

So the formula for attack difference would be: atk*(0.5+(critDmg/100))
Formula for the power difference would be: pow*(0.5+(critDmg/100))

(calculated for 80 character in a level 80 area)

About your last question:

First Build:
3232atk 44%crit 112%critDmg
atkOnCrit = atk*(1.5+(112/100)) = 3232*(1.5+1.12) = 3232*(2.62) = 8467
—————————————-
Second Build:
3114atk 47%crit 115%critDmg
atkOnCrit = atk*(1.5+(115/100)) = 3114*(1.5+(1.15) = 3114*(2.65) =8252

Apprently the second build does less damage but has a 3% increased crit chance.

I have no idea how good crit chance is you would need to write a test program to simulate attacks.

If you want me to do so I could.

Taobella.6597:

alright i be honest im still a bit confused. i write out what i am trying to figure out.
current build has 3232 atk p 44% crit rate 112% crit dmg
second build would be 3114 atk p 47% crit rate 115% crit dmg

so my question is is 3% crit dmg better for my build then roughly 100 power i am losing ?.

Atk power = Power (stat) + Weapon average damage.

Can you provide the current Power from both? Or the weapon you are using? Math can’t be accurate if those values aren’t correctly introduced!

/cheers

oh sure sure.
first build is 2251 power with a lv80 berserker dagger 924-981 weapon strength
second build is 2133 power same weapon.

Considering the following formula with your data:

Being :
ED → Effective Damage – Statistical Effective Damage you will deal.
P → Power – Attribute
Ch → Critical Chance (Chance to land a critical hit, on %)
Cd → Critical Damage (Critical hit damage increment, on %)
K → Constant → dependent on opponent Armor, Skill multiplier and Weapon used.

The Effective damage formula is:
ED = K * P * [Ch * (150+Cd)/100 + (100-Ch)] / 100

Being ED1 the damage inflicted with P=2251, Ch=44% and Cd=112%,
and Being ED2 the damage inflicted with P=2133, Ch=47% and Cd=115%;

ED1 = 1,0181 x ED2.

The first setup statistically will deal more damage. Not much though.

Hope it helps. /cheers

LHound.8964:

Considering the following formula with your data:

Being :
ED -> Effective Damage – Statistical Effective Damage you will deal.
P -> Power – Attribute
Ch -> Critical Chance (Chance to land a critical hit, on %)
Cd -> Critical Damage (Critical hit damage increment, on %)
K -> Constant -> dependent on opponent Armor, Skill multiplier and Weapon used.

The Effective damage formula is:
ED = K * P * [Ch * (150+Cd)/100 + (100-Ch)] / 100

Being ED1 the damage inflicted with P=2251, Ch=44% and Cd=112%,
and Being ED2 the damage inflicted with P=2133, Ch=47% and Cd=115%;

ED1 = 1,0181 x ED2.

The first setup statistically will deal more damage. Not much though.

Hope it helps. /cheers

Good job for:
1. ignoring my post
2. coming to the same result
3. using more variables and more information for the same result.

No seriously, we both got the same result. First build deals more damage.

I did not ignore your post.

You simply didn’t add all the parameters, like the critical chance.

Therefore i concluded your math didn’t quite answered OP’s question, as Critical chance highly influences the damage.

/cheers

thanks both of you taking the time to answer my question : )

LHound.8964:

I did not ignore your post.

You simply didn’t add all the parameters, like the critical chance.

Therefore i concluded your math didn’t quite answered OP’s question, as Critical chance highly influences the damage.

/cheers

Oh… but
the critical chance has no influence on the damage. It only determines whether or not the next hit is a critical hit. Thus being a chance and calculating a chance results in a pseudo chance that goes away from the actual real result.

Well the OPs question was how much power 1% crit would be equivalent. Afterwards he asked which would be better: more power less crit or more crit less power.

So in both cases crit chance plays only a smaller role or none.

Taobella.6597:

thanks both of you taking the time to answer my question : )

You’re welcome.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Oh… but
the critical chance has no influence on the damage. It only determines whether or not the next hit is a critical hit. Thus being a chance and calculating a chance results in a pseudo chance that goes away from the actual real result.

For this i don’t agree.
The critical chance highly impacts the damage you deal. Being critical damage at least 150% normal damage, and the more you hit critical hits (higher Chance), the biggest is your damage. Of course, i agree with you that it’s nothing more than statistics. But they will tend to the real value on higher number of hits.

Well the OPs question was how much power 1% crit would be equivalent. Afterwards he asked which would be better: more power less crit or more crit less power.
So in both cases crit chance plays only a smaller role or none.

My first post, also responded this question. It was due to the new question from OP that i made my second and detailed post.

LHound.8964:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Oh… but
the critical chance has no influence on the damage. It only determines whether or not the next hit is a critical hit. Thus being a chance and calculating a chance results in a pseudo chance that goes away from the actual real result.

For this i don’t agree.
The critical chance highly impacts the damage you deal. Being critical damage at least 150% normal damage, and the more you hit critical hits (higher Chance), the biggest is your damage. Of course, i agree with you that it’s nothing more than statistics. But they will tend to the real value on higher number of hits.

Well the OPs question was how much power 1% crit would be equivalent. Afterwards he asked which would be better: more power less crit or more crit less power.
So in both cases crit chance plays only a smaller role or none.

My first post, also responded this question. It was due to the new question from OP that i made my second and detailed post.

I see and I understand what you meant by statistics. Okay then.
The best way to test damage is simulating chances in my opinion. When simulation a chance you get a better look at it then using a pseudo chance for calculation.

Using a swiftly written program in java I calculated 10 attacks and wrote down the best of 3 throws:
Build A
Crit Chance: 44
8564 8564 3232 3232 3232 8564 8564 3232 3232 3232
Total: 53648
Average: 5364

Build B:
Crit Chance: 47
8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 3114
Total: 61968
Average: 6196

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

When simulation a chance you get a better look at it then using a pseudo chance for calculation.

Don’t quite follow what you mean by pseudo chance. The chance is exactly defined (44 and 47%). The outcome isn’t (as demonstrated by your results). That’s the definition of probabilities. When the sample tends to infinity, the results will be 44 (or 47) per each 100 hits….

Using a swiftly written program in java I calculated 10 attacks and wrote down the best of 3 throws:
Build A
Crit Chance: 44
8564 8564 3232 3232 3232 8564 8564 3232 3232 3232
Total: 53648
Average: 5364

Build B:
Crit Chance: 47
8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 3114
Total: 61968
Average: 6196

I’m sorry Green but those results don’t mean anything at all. To predict how Critical Chance may influence the results you must give a higher sample size (10 is to small for a 3% variation). Those results are so wrong irrelevant that they even contradict the real result of Build A being better than Build B. Simple!

/cheers

Chances are a source of luck. Sometimes you crit often some times you never crit. So your damage depends on luck. If you go for Build B. In the first program runs it were 10 attacks. So if you have enough luck to crit more often with 47% than 44% you get more damage out. Now it’s different.

With 175 attacks:

Build A:
Crit Chance: 44
3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 8467 8467 3232 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 8467 3232 8467 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 3232 8467 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 3232 8467 3232 8467 3232 3232 3232 3232 8467 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 3232 8467 8467 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 8467 8467 8467 8467 3232 8467 3232 8467 8467 3232 3232 8467 3232 3232 3232 8467
Total: 1026280
Average: 5864

Build B:
Crit Chance: 47
3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 8252 3114 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 8252 3114 3114 3114 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 3114 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 8252 8252 3114 3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 3114 3114 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 3114 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 8252 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114 3114 3114 8252 3114 8252 3114
Total: 1012508
Average: 5785

Try 100.000 results, and paste directly their average

Edit:

Chances are a source of luck. Sometimes you crit often some times you never crit. So your damage depends on luck. If you go for Build B. In the first program runs it were 10 attacks. So if you have enough luck to crit more often with 47% than 44% you get more damage out. Now it’s different.

That’s a fallacy. You can’t take a result for granted in probabilities. Therefore, the only way of taking seriously the expected results is to use the crit. chance as a certainty (when the limit of n cases tends to infinity).

LHound.8964:

Try 100.000 results, and paste directly their average

There you go:

Build A:
Average: 5575

Build B:
Average: 5566

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

LHound.8964:

Try 100.000 results, and paste directly their average

There you go:

Build A:
Average: 5575

Build B:
Average: 5566

This simulation proved exactly my point.
Probability on case A ~ 44% and on case B ~47%. Therefor, the expected values based on given probabilities could be used.

/cheers

LHound.8964:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

LHound.8964:

Try 100.000 results, and paste directly their average

There you go:

Build A:
Average: 5575

Build B:
Average: 5566

This simulation proved exactly my point.
Probability on case A ~ 44% and on case B ~47%. Therefor, the expected values based on given probabilities could be used.

/cheers

Well I have to add to this that I again used the highest value of 3 throws on each. If I wouldn’t have it might have varied again. I mean just look at it there’s only a small difference. One crit more or one crit less already means the result will be different.

Anyways. The decision which you wanna choose of the builds depends on you. Sure the first one does a higher damage but if you think you are lucky with critical hits the second one is your choice. Then again if you play warrior the first one is your choice definitely (due to easy crit chance increase by few abilities with small cool down. :P)

it a BackStab build i want bigger numbers not more hits but thanks for going so detail in this it interesting non the less.

Here’s my 2 cents on the matter. Critical chance is a huge parameter that you have to account for.

Using the effective power formula:

Build A=5424.44
Build B=5413.5

They aren’t stastically different so my answer is that both will pretty much do the same damage.