Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
Dungeon Explorable Mode (SPOILER)
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
yea it was a zergfest with our group and we ran mostly naked because we died too many times and at the end we didn’t care about our armor because we can get killed by just two or three hits especially from the mini boss and boss.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
yea it was a zergfest with our group and we ran mostly naked because we died too many times and at the end we didn’t care about our armor because we can get killed by just two or three hits especially from the mini boss and boss.
Oh yeah I am not sure what purpose armor serves in PVE dungeons. You are going to get decimated if a mobs attacks one way or the other. The only thing that can save you is dodging really.
No I have the same experience thus far. If I spec anything other than vitality and toughness especially. It turns into a zergfest…people all downed and dying and running back. It gets so bad people stop even trying to pick up the downed folks as the only way to complete is to do as much DPS as you can before being downed and killed and running back.
The fact you are actually able to spawn rush the boss mobs…shows that by design arena net expected this kind of a zergfest. A lot of game don’t even allow you to run back like that on boss mobs. In this game it is not only encouraged but expected.
yea it was a zergfest with our group and we ran mostly naked because we died too many times and at the end we didn’t care about our armor because we can get killed by just two or three hits especially from the mini boss and boss.
Oh yeah I am not sure what purpose armor serves in PVE dungeons. You are going to get decimated if a mobs attacks one way or the other. The only thing that can save you is dodging really.
Some of my armors got crit chance stats which is quite helpful, but at the end it’s useless if they are all broken…
and I always save up my endurance to use it only at the time when I need it, but as a melee user only I often run out of endurance which can lead to dead so many times…
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
caudecus manor explorable is doable without too much difficulty if you do it right. fyi do the butler route, that one has the most reasonable difficulty
caudecus manor explorable is doable without too much difficulty if you do it right. fyi do the butler route, that one has the most reasonable difficulty
I’ll try to do it next time, because helping the seraph objective is just ridiculously hard…
but this also means that you must have a good organize group instead just grouping with random people which makes it hard to do for me because I mostly soloing stuff and not having any guild yet.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
(edited by Sentinel VX.1392)
I think explorable mode should be harder! The waypoint teleportation when dead, while fighting a boss, makes the game super easy… =/
I think its a bit unrealistic to expect to complete explore mode within the first few weeks without dying a few times. It takes time and effort to learn the strats needed to complete each dungeon. Explore mode is tuned to be the most difficult thing you can do in PvE, and if everyone who tried just strolled right through, it would drastically lower the appeal to spend time on it, if not make it entirely pointless.
80 Norn Guardian “Professor Whom”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
I am seeing the same issue with my guild group. There were several times playing other MMO’s (most recently Rift) that I had the same experience in, which is going into a dungeon without a tank or healer for the fun of it to see if we could get through. The difference is that we were doing that for fun, not because we had to. The other notable difference I see is mechanics – there aren’t any that I can see in this game. Toughness doesn’t really exist in dungeons so that trait line is obsolete. Putting 30 points into toughness is like running a lvl 80 dungeon as a level 50 character.
I am quite disappointed because dungeons are the aspect of the game i was looking forward to, but they are just a more boring version of dungeons in ever other MMO with some choices taken away. I will still be PvE’ing and WvWvW to level 80 on my guardian and we’ll see what happens from there.
The fact that you can respawn while the fight is going on if you are dead just removes the whole challenge. If you die you only hope that someone is alive by the time you get there so the boss doesn’t reset.
Because there is no tank you never know when something might suddenly turn on you and one shot you. If the melee get the aggro you can’t see anything from afar because of all the animations from elementalist spells and everyone else. Suddenly a mob has the urge to switch focus to you and you can’t react because you couldn’t see the tell because of all the effects around the mob.
I find that the toughness is beneficial in all aspects, dungeons included. Even if you don’t feel the benefit from the stat itself, the trait skills you unlock may be the edge you need to complete an encounter.
I’ve explained in another, similar thread that each encounter has a strategy, and it takes time, patience, and awareness to learn the strats that work, and utilize them skillfully. Everyone expecting to roll through these dungeons this early into the game is in for a learning experience, to put it mildly. I am a 80 guardian with all yellow 80 gear, but that does not remove the challenges of the dungeons. Spec for the skills you need, work on synergy within your group, and learn from each death and failure to adapt your strategies and overcome the challenges. Once again, this is intended to be the hardest thing for a GOOD GROUP to accomplish, and EXTREMELY challenging for a PUG. If it was easier, it would be facerolled, and then we would all be complaining that we burned through the content too quickly. Also, if they were that easy, everyone would have all the same loot skins, making them all but pointless to have in the first place.
80 Norn Guardian “Professor Whom”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
My whole point is have you ever done explorable dungeon mode without dying or only die few times? it seems no one can do that without zergfest… or at least give me a proof that people can do it without zergfest like youtube video otherwise my point is clear that most of explorable dungeons are just ridiculously too hard.
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
And dying a lot or zerging to complete the dungeon is not fun even though you can finish it…
Sea of Sorrow since BWE.
My whole point is have you ever done explorable dungeon mode without dying or only die few times? it seems no one can do that without zergfest… or at least give me a proof that people can do it without zergfest like youtube video otherwise my point is clear that most of explorable dungeons are just ridiculously too hard.
I have done explore mode only dying a few times, and by that I mean 5 or less. No, I have not done it without dying at all…yet. I have never made a video, and have no interest in doing so. I’m not trying to make anyone feel bad, or make out like I am more skilled than anyone else. My point is that with a little patience, objectivity, and communication, a good team can tackle the challenges presented by explorable mode. This has been accomplished quite enough to be proof in itself, without another YouTube video being necessary to ‘prove’ what I am saying.
I will also say I have done parts of explorable mode only 4-man, as we had a friend go afk right before we started and he ended up being off for hours. Not wanting to kick him out, we went for it with 4, and succeeded. Yes, it was much harder with 4, but at the same time, it forced us to be extremely careful with pulls, plan each one out ahead of time, and UTILIZE CHOKE POINTS and LINE OF SIGHT. When all was said and done, we were very proud of ourselves for being able to 4-man one of the AC Explorable modes (forget which, first or second, not third).
I am confident they are tuned properly, and anyone can learn to clear them with a proper group and skill/stat setup. Use the environment around you, tweak your strats, LEARN from your defeats. Mobs do not normally respawn in a dungeon when you kill them. Victory by attrition is still a victory.
80 Norn Guardian “Professor Whom”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
And dying a lot or zerging to complete the dungeon is not fun even though you can finish it…
No its not. And that is the problem. Every time I die there is absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it. That is what makes this game really really bad. I die and its plain unavoidable. Getting double or tripled targeted. Getting condition spammed, or one shotted. It makes me want to rage quit everytime in a dungeon.
There really is no challenge in that. Why not make the dungeons difficult without killing us ten thousand times and making us return to spawn over and over? its like the MMO gene is moving backwards with every new iteration…more dumbed down, more solo play, less player intergation. GW2 has moved so far in this direction its quite bad. Support classes and skills are next to useless….all skills on huge cooldowns with minimal effects when used.
I was trying a mesmer mantra build….what a joke…did anyone sit down and press the mantra button at all? If they did they would realize it takes forever to cast….I remeber the GW monk being a fluid active and fun class. No such thing in GW2. It’s so frustrating that they totally dropped the ball on coop play.
Why not have dungeons have AVOIDABLE deaths. I mean get rid of respawn points and spawn zerging and make death something to be avoided, it needs to be much more rare. I think I am gonna just play some SP games I have, I don’t want to just run around zones looking for POIs and krap the whole time. I don’t want to solo and the do a quick rift style zerg here and there.
The whole game has no AI balance at all. Just mobs sprinkled around everywhere. The PVE side of this game is in bad bad shape, and the leveling curve painfully long….I imagine at 80 there is absolutely nothing to do buy /quit. Ny gut feelign told me when they removed the defined roles that it would break the coop PVE side of things….but it was arena net so I assumed they had done something to make it work.
This is not the case, no tank role means mobs everywhere roaming and murdering people with impunity. No healer class means when you are low on life you are just gonna die. And without healers and tank the DPS classes are going to be fodder over and over. The thing is everyone has roles….in war we have ground to air aircraft. forward recons elements, heavy armor, fast attack copters…..in basketball you have point guards, power forwards, centers……why remove it from a game? What were they expecting?
From what I can tell thus far, if you die it was your own dang fault. You aren’t using appropriate abilities in certain situations, you aren’t targeting healing/hard hitting mobs first, you aren’t using the terrain, kiting, etc. Yes you CAN go back to the mobs/bosses over and over when you die, but if you aren’t learning from your deaths the price you pay for victory will be in repair costs.
So next time you’re all wiping over and over perhaps pause and regroup/reset, think on how to do things the smart way, and try again instead of zerging. Your choice: Skills or repair bills.
Explorable mode dungeons can be described in a few sentences:
Start the fight with the boss,
Dps + kite until you get on the floor or die,
Teleport to the waypoint and let your teammates continue dps + kite until they die,
Run to the room and do the same thing over and over again until the boss is dead.
Loot
Repair
Done.
I think the boss fights should be reworked…
In order to make a clean challenge, the room should be closed and no one can enter the room until the boss is dead. If you want to resurrect, someone has to do that.
I’m playing a guardian with traits in thoughness + healing + hp, but to be honest, i might go to dps talents and use some cooldowns to hold the boss for a few seconds and thats it…
Some of the events in explorable are dps races…
What you guys think?
No its not. And that is the problem. Every time I die there is absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it. That is what makes this game really really bad. I die and its plain unavoidable. Getting double or tripled targeted. Getting condition spammed, or one shotted. It makes me want to rage quit everytime in a dungeon.
Oh, man, where do I start? I’ll take it one statement at a time I suppose:
Every time I die there is absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it. That is what makes this game really really bad. I die and its plain unavoidable. Getting double or tripled targeted. Getting condition spammed, or one shotted. It makes me want to rage quit everytime in a dungeon.
You know there is a dodge for every class, right? There is nothing in this game that I have come accross that is unavoidable. And conditions can be removed, easily.
There really is no challenge in that. Why not make the dungeons difficult without killing us ten thousand times and making us return to spawn over and over? its like the MMO gene is moving backwards with every new iteration…more dumbed down, more solo play, less player intergation. GW2 has moved so far in this direction its quite bad. Support classes and skills are next to useless….all skills on huge cooldowns with minimal effects when used.
Nobody is making you spawn over and over, you should be learning from your mistakes each attempt, and adjust accordingly. Performing the same task over and over and expecting different results is one of the definitions of insanity. Then to say its dumbed down, with more solo play and less player integration?? I mean, have you played this game? Nearly every ability has multiple uses for different situations, hardly dumbed down. As for the player integration, this game is BUILT around people naturally grouping together to achieve a goal. I’m not going to waste more time going into this, its simply a thoughtless argument you’ve made here. Oh, and support classes? Didn’t know we had those…
The PVE side of this game is in bad bad shape, and the leveling curve painfully long….I imagine at 80 there is absolutely nothing to do buy /quit. Ny gut feelign told me when they removed the defined roles that it would break the coop PVE side of things….but it was arena net so I assumed they had done something to make it work.
This game is crazy easy to level in, and please, don’t ‘imagine’ what we do at 80, we have plenty to do and are just fine, thanks. Then you speak of how they removed defined rolls in the same post you complain about support classes…no comment, again.
…no tank role means mobs everywhere roaming and murdering people with impunity. No healer class means when you are low on life you are just gonna die. And without healers and tank the DPS classes are going to be fodder over and over. The thing is everyone has roles….in war we have ground to air aircraft. forward recons elements, heavy armor, fast attack copters…..in basketball you have point guards, power forwards, centers……why remove it from a game? What were they expecting?
There are no rolls, and this is clearly something you’re having trouble with. If someone in your group, or you yourself wish to FILL a roll, you’re welcome to do so, but the game does not force you to label yourself a ‘healer’ or ‘support’ class. Staying alive and benefiting your team is EVERYONE’S SOLE RESPONSIBILITY. And it was removed from the game because its lame to sit around for hours waiting for a tank or healer to log on, or roll one yourself. This way everyone can play however they want without HAVING to do ANYTHING they don’t WANT to do.
I think you, like most others, would benefit from taking a step back, doing a little google’ing, and learning a bit more about how this game really works. Negative rants like this isn’t helping anything, serves little or no purpose, and to be honest is time better spent actually PLAYING the game.
80 Norn Guardian “Professor Whom”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
<80 Char Warrior “Ralcore”
Well, If a game requires professional coordination by all of the party members, at all times, then it becomes frustrating.
I just did explorable mode in AC and, even if level 35s can partecipate, I think it was designed for characters of an higher level. It’s simply not fun.
Two of us were then demotivated and left within the hour.
Either tone down the difficulty OR have a selectable, increasing level of challenge for each path. Have standard, advanced and expert difficulties, just like the game BattleForge. This way, casual players can enjoy the content and expert players will get better rewards.
As with any NEW game coming out, there is a learning curve.
If you were super mega awesome world #1 raider of MMONAMEHERE, that’s cool and all. This is Guild Wars 2 though, completely different style of combat.
Get used to the game, and things get MUCH easier. The first few explore mode dungeons we did we died a couple times learning the different fights / getting used to the combat system and learning the animations of the enemy).
After we did that, everything else seemed to be much easier.
There is almost always something that you can be doing to get to safety. If you die, you were either out of position, didn’t dodge or use an evade ability or you weren’t paying attention to the animation of the mob.
I am actually really quite happy with the difficulty curve of the explore dungeons. I’m really happy they are tuned to be a challenge, where deaths do occur.
Explorer is actually the hard mode. The reason for that is because you get tokens from every boss.
Try AC Explorer. Fun and hard.