Ele Downed in WvW, say what?!
Everyone has one ability that actually matters to the horde around them. Then it’s gone, and you get finished off within 5 seconds.
If you’re talking about when you die and you are in the Rez state, let me start out by saying how much I hate this in PvP. PvE its ok, but in PvP where you try to play serious, it just seems stupid, and takes the skill away from the game. Why? Because you go through all the trouble of killing someone and then you have to kill them some more after you “killed them” or run up beside them and push F. If there is an actualy single target rez spell, that is better, but this stuff is just stupid.
As a side note, for the engineer they have a 7 or 8 second cooldown before they can use their explosion. SO even if you down them, if you manage to cast finish them quickly, you can usually down them.
Roll over and die.
I found the differences in downed abilities really annoyed me on each class.
Engie’s isn’t as great as it sounds btw. It’s probably as bad as Ele.
Mesmer and Theif though…. you’ll get away scot free like 90% of the time.
No, as a Mesmer it buys you seconds that at best. If your already on the wrong side of the lines there is no clone that’s going to help you. What one person missed getting the killing blow often another does.
As a Warrior Vengance is awesome IF you can get the killing blow on an enemy. However I have to admit it’s helpful to run back to friends for a proper res. However like many other abilities there is a period of time before it’s active. And the Hammer… yeah 1 and just 1 enemy knock down. In PvP especially WvW that’s meaningless 90% of the time. When there is 2+ and often is 5+ 1 hammer is not going to do anything.
At best from what I can tell all they do is delay the inevitable.
As for negating skill. They don’t really change the skill element. They just change the dynamic of having to run long distances. If you beat some one you still beat them. All that changes is if your driven off and they are revived. but that just saves running time. The victory from skill is still there.
I don’t need no stinking signature.
If you’re talking about when you die and you are in the Rez state, let me start out by saying how much I hate this in PvP. PvE its ok, but in PvP where you try to play serious, it just seems stupid, and takes the skill away from the game. Why? Because you go through all the trouble of killing someone and then you have to kill them some more after you
If they are downed, they are not dead, and you did not kill them, you simply incapacitated them to an extent. You still need to finish them.
It is not less annoying, then the fact that once I down and finish a player, they will be running right back at me in a matter of minutes after respawning.
I would be willing to bet though, when you are down and fighting to live so you do not have to run back from a spawn point, that you appreciate the chance to fight for your life.
Poor craftsman blame their tools. Poor players blame their Engineer.
Killing someone is <gasp> not just seeing the health bar go down. It is a little more, and yes some classes seem to not have something ‘cool’ to prolong their inevitable death. I can say that as a Thief, those ‘cool teleport and vanish’ abilities have saved me like once or twice in WvW, and -never- in Story Mode quests. Only rarely in PvE where I’ve been able to rally – but that’s because I was doing damage, not using those skills.
So, it comes down to how you play with a team. I know my group can get better at rezzing downed players, so we’ll work on that. And as for you, keeping a ranger away with an immobilize is pretty good for that, while not so good for a melee class who is right on you. Maybe they need to make it an AOE immobilize to stop Mesmers etc. from getting to you sooner (maybe the single-target catches the clone instead), but there’s going to be a use for it as gameplay develops.
Edit: Also, the fun part is that 5-10 people will try to stomp you at once. So delaying that in any way is fun because so many people will waste their time. It sucks that you don’t have a keep-away skill. An AOE immobilize would be fitting.
(edited by Vexus.5423)
I don’t agree. Mist form while downed is the most useful WvW downed skill. You just have to live long enough while downed to use it. Takes what, 10 seconds? Just be careful not to die near the enemy mob. Which is easier as an elementalist then any other class except mesmer. Use cantrips! If you’re going to die, position yourself first! Lightning Flash!
In sPvP and PvE however downed mist form is COMPLETELY USELESS.
ps elementalists are the most underpowered class in the game. In the patches between BW2 and the final stress test their overall damage output was reduced by almost 20%!!! Mist form never did get any love, and other overpowered downed abilities like thieves and rangers never received nerfs, even though the developers promised to do so. A ranger can outdamage an elementalist by facerolling their keyboard blindfolded.
The problem with Vapor Form is that it isn’t instantly available. That’s what causes most deaths in WvW and/or sPvP – Because during those few short moments that the skill needs to become accessible, your enemy could already be on top of you executing the finishing animation. You simply don’t have the luxury of waiting around for several minutes.
And though Blink and Mist Form are useful to get out of harms way before you get downed.. They don’t necessarily work well enough when your entire group in WvW is being overrun by an even bigger enemy group. By the time you teleported into safety, the enemy will already be right on your tail – Especially so if there’s Thieves involved, since they can shadowstep quite effectively these days =)
I didn’t know about the 20% damage redux though. That’s insane! Sure explains why I felt like I was pretty much useless in WvW/sPvP after BW2 =/
I think our downed skills are not that bad. Sure we don’t have that big out of the gate spell that other classes have but some of those I’m not even sure are as great as they sound. A Guardian for example, what is he going to do after he knocks them back? Most of the time he just dies when they come running back. An Ele however, if we can manage to survive the first few seconds than Vapor form allows us to get away and often I can get back up with it. If your not getting beat on heavily (which let’s be honest, if you’re zerged like that I sure as hell hope you die otherwise you’d be way OP) you can usually survive on the ground long enough to use Vapor form twice, which gives you two chances to get out of harms way.
The problem with Vapor Form is that it isn’t instantly available. That’s what causes most deaths in WvW and/or sPvP – Because during those few short moments that the skill needs to become accessible, your enemy could already be on top of you executing the finishing animation. You simply don’t have the luxury of waiting around for several minutes.
Trust me your not alone in this. Warrior vengence is nice but takes around 10 seconds to become avalible. Sometimes if its only one person trying to stomp me I can get the stun off right near the end of their first try and vengence off just before the second but this normaly requires them to take a moment to reach me for that first one. Vengence vary rairly saves me in PVP unless someone else delays the enemy.
The moment you get downed, the enemies around you start pounding unto you like kittens trying to catch a ball of wool.
Hilarious by the way. Now every time I’m downed I’ll be imagining giant kittens running over to smack me around.
Dear Developers,
Rock is fine, nerf scissors.
~Paper
Rock is fine, nerf scissors.
~Paper
There are times when I hate the downed state, and times when I like it. It makes 1v2 a lot harder to pull off, but it also prevents cheesy crap from being too good. Here’s how I’d rate each class:
Thief: You are extremely annoying to kill. If you’re quick, you can stomp him after his first shadowstep. If you’re even a little bit slow, he’ll do shadowstep → vanish → shadowstep. When this happens, you’re often better off just killing him (especially if you have AOE to damage him in stealth)
Engineer: Like the thief, if you’re not quick finishing an engineer off, they can do pull → explosion → pull. Really annoying.
Mesmer: Overrated. Whenever a mesmer clones himself, I see a big red arrow over the real one’s head. You can usually tell the real one by how he acts anyway. Buys you a couple seconds at most.
Warrior: Pretty good. Hammer throw is easy to dodge, but vengeance is quite nice. Sure, you often die at the end anyway, but it gives you a chance to rally. Plus, if you and your opponent both go down (not uncommon), you will almost always win.
Guardian: Fairly bad. The knock back is hard to dodge, but after that you’re dead. The healing mark is decent if people forget about you.
Ranger: Also bad. Pet heal is the same as guardian, and the daze buys you a second.
Elementalist: Worst. Elementalists are the only class that can’t interrupt a single stomp right after they go down. You will rarely get to use mist form.
Necromancer: Not very good. Fear buys you a bit of time, but that’s it. You are good at killing other downed people.
I m not too happy about the fact that dieing in WvW causes damage to your gear. This can happen alot if someone is not very careful but also if you don t get a res. I haven’t found a problem with resing but i have found myself discouraged when i spawn at the beginning and have to run all the way back to the fight. I understand that it is needed because a respawn point too close would only make taking a keep harder
There are times when I hate the downed state, and times when I like it. It makes 1v2 a lot harder to pull off, but it also prevents cheesy crap from being too good. Here’s how I’d rate each class:
Thief: You are extremely annoying to kill. If you’re quick, you can stomp him after his first shadowstep. If you’re even a little bit slow, he’ll do shadowstep -> vanish -> shadowstep. When this happens, you’re often better off just killing him (especially if you have AOE to damage him in stealth)
Engineer: Like the thief, if you’re not quick finishing an engineer off, they can do pull -> explosion -> pull. Really annoying.
Mesmer: Overrated. Whenever a mesmer clones himself, I see a big red arrow over the real one’s head. You can usually tell the real one by how he acts anyway. Buys you a couple seconds at most.
Warrior: Pretty good. Hammer throw is easy to dodge, but vengeance is quite nice. Sure, you often die at the end anyway, but it gives you a chance to rally. Plus, if you and your opponent both go down (not uncommon), you will almost always win.
Guardian: Fairly bad. The knock back is hard to dodge, but after that you’re dead. The healing mark is decent if people forget about you.
Ranger: Also bad. Pet heal is the same as guardian, and the daze buys you a second.
Elementalist: Worst. Elementalists are the only class that can’t interrupt a single stomp right after they go down. You will rarely get to use mist form.
Necromancer: Not very good. Fear buys you a bit of time, but that’s it. You are good at killing other downed people.
You raise valid points, Sir (Or Ma’am if you wish). Though if you ask me.. The skills themselves aren’t the issue. It’s their downtime and the fact they need to charge up in order to be used – And after that a long recharge follows up. Was hoping to find some new insights about how to survive as an Ele while downed.. But I suppose I’m better off just dying and respawning – Or waiting for a ress after having died =/
Hilarious by the way. Now every time I’m downed I’ll be imagining giant kittens running over to smack me around.
Teehee. You’re welcome ^^;
I m not too happy about the fact that dieing in WvW causes damage to your gear. This can happen alot if someone is not very careful but also if you don t get a res. I haven’t found a problem with resing but i have found myself discouraged when i spawn at the beginning and have to run all the way back to the fight. I understand that it is needed because a respawn point too close would only make taking a keep harder
New waypoints are actually available in WvW. You can attain them by upgrades key possessions that your server has taken. And not only that, you can strengthen the walls, add economy-related goods to the outpost and even buy extra defenses for it.
Fixing armor isn’t as bad as it used to be, trust me. They’ve done a fine jobe at fine tuning that. If you find yourself out of money to keep fixing it, try going different routes and taking down enemies 1 at a time, instead of all at once :P