Guild Wars 2

Draw.7529:

I actually started a new character because I’m curious about the other personal stories possibilities. People tend to forget this game isn’t to farm lvls like every other mmo. This is supose to… Play the game and have fun with it. Enjoy the story.
I never worried much about an endgame in PvE. This game is enjoyable as it is and most games I’ve played there’s nothing besides PvP after you beat the content aswell.
My only concern is how easy it was to get 80. I wouldn’t mind if it took a bit more time and if it was a bit harder to pass content. I played solo and I can’t imagine how the game is with party all the time.

You sir, are a genius, and you understand the base of GW2. (I agree leveling is soooooo fast.. I got 2 levels in like 45 minutes crafting, too. ARGH)

For me, my endgame is being a completionist on my char, so finishing all the zones, all the areas etc. Currently at 28-30 on my main chars, and not left the starter zones.

It took me a while to get out of the “It is about getting to 80” mentality that a decade of MMOs had got me into, so now my plans are, take 1 char laterally, through all 1-15, 15-25 etc, and then take another up 1-15, 15-25 etc and drop down to 1-15 again to do the other zones in race order, and get all crafts to 400 on my chars.

In between I will probably do lots of explorer dungeons, because I love dungeon crawling. I still am not entirely used to “level doesnt really matter, it only affects what is open to you”, so level 30 is good cos there is a dungeon, level 80 is good because it has all dungeons open, but other than that, it does not matter either what level you are, or what zone you are in.

the game doesnt feel rewarding enough at max level to keep me playiing for long, i like the game and it has potential but with no gear progression, raids or mounts i dont think i will be playing in 2 months (at least pve)

nysta.6713:

how everyone got to 80 so quick worries me. i haven’t managed to get a toon out of its 20s. i keep wanting to reroll because i saw someone doing something that looks cool. or i just want to see more of the other races. i can’t decide! it’s like being in a candy shop.

i never move on from a map until i’ve finished it all. and even then, i think i’ve done some of those dynamic events a few more times just because they’re fun.

I am thinking the same way. I’ve literally played every class now, and finally I just fell in love with the Guardian. (that may change by the end of the upcoming weekend)

My next goal is to save up enough gold to purchase 3 additional character slots without spending any real money on gems. MWAHAHAHAHA WORLD DOMINATION!

I hit 80 yesterday. On my to do list: Tier 3 cultural set, legendary weapon, commander rank, 100% map completion, max two more crafts, complete at least one path of explore-able mode through each dungeon, level up guild enough to have a feast in lions arc, attain respectable sPvP rank, max survivor.

Thats MONTHS of work and doesn’t even cover everything that is there to do, only what I want to accomplish with this particular character.

And when thats done, I get to make a new character with a new story, choose a different order, make different decisions in Orr, and set different “end game” goals for that character.

I imagine content patches or an expansion will be on the near horizon before I get close to that point. There is PLENTY to do right out of the box.

Shimond.2478:

Baarak.2486:

I should preface this post with this: I understand the game has been out for only 10 days. I’ve really disliked the endgame so far. The pvp part of this game, is excellent. Sure there are some balancing issues but aside from that its been spectacular. End game PvE is nonexistent. Arah was really poorly done in my opinion. It was not difficult, or entertaining. The Zhaitan fight was very dull. I don’t understand why so many people playing this game are so quick to go after those of us who want to participate in end game PvE dungeons. Its an almost integral part of the MMO experience. As someone who wants to do both PVP and PVE this game is severely lacking in the latter area.

So you have 100% map completion then and have the explore sets from all the other dungeons? Thanks to scaling, your ‘endgame dungeons’ actually start at level 30, not 80. Sounds like plenty of content to me.

Why would I ever want to do that. The dungeons are dull and very easy. Do you mean 100% map completion in dungeons or in the world? I don’t really see that as a huge pull. Exploring is fun, but not as fun as dungeon diving and pvping.

Have you completed the Ascalon Catacombs in Explorable mode?

did you already try explore dungeons, if not try them and come back again.

edit: grumbles was faster, he posted while i was reading

Duveth.5742:

the game doesnt feel rewarding enough at max level to keep me playiing for long, i like the game and it has potential but with no gear progression, raids or mounts i dont think i will be playing in 2 months (at least pve)

And lucky for you, I am certain WoW will still be around and available to you.

I get the preference, but I am so very happy that GW2 doesn’t follow the WoW model and instead provides a refuge for those gamers like me who despise the gear treadmill and boring “end-game” raids that end up being hours of waiting, prepping, and wipe recovery weighed against minutes of actual fighting time (most of which is spent doing the EXACT SAME THING as every other person who plays your class and/or role).

So we can both enjoy our games.

I’ve got to say that even though the OP was “disappointed” by your responses, I want to thank everyone that has taken the time to give a quality answer here. This has only strengthened the view that this game is about community and story instead of the get-gear-to-run-a-better-dungeon-to-get-different-gear “treadmill” that ituhata mentioned. I’m loving it, and I’m excited to know that at 80 I won’t hit that “nothing to do but weekly raid” wall. Thanks again, folks!

The game is played a lot more like Skyrim and a lot less like WoW or Rift. If you are expecting a Rift or WoW endgame raid you are going to be disappointed. As others have said, it’s the journey, not the destination.

Sky.9347:

Duveth.5742:

the game doesnt feel rewarding enough at max level to keep me playiing for long, i like the game and it has potential but with no gear progression, raids or mounts i dont think i will be playing in 2 months (at least pve)

And lucky for you, I am certain WoW will still be around and available to you.

I get the preference, but I am so very happy that GW2 doesn’t follow the WoW model and instead provides a refuge for those gamers like me who despise the gear treadmill and boring “end-game” raids that end up being hours of waiting, prepping, and wipe recovery weighed against minutes of actual fighting time (most of which is spent doing the EXACT SAME THING as every other person who plays your class and/or role).

So we can both enjoy our games.

I don’t understand why this concept is mutually exclusive from the current game right now. It would be possible and perhaps necessary to implement high end PvE content. Most people playing this game instead of WoW are doing so for a reason. If GW2 had a similar PVE system to WoW, and kept what it has right now the game would appeal to everyone, and it would be phenomenal.

some people like to buy the game just for be able to make this topics

theres freaking gear to farm
theres freaking events/dungeons to raids

Baarak.2486:

I don’t understand why so many people playing this game are so quick to go after those of us who want to participate in end game PvE dungeons. Its an almost integral part of the MMO experience. As someone who wants to do both PVP and PVE this game is severely lacking in the latter area.

Level scaling, how does it work?

Just go back and do other dungeons.

The game itself is sort of in a sense endgame through out and not at the same time especially for PVE. The content isn’t challenging enough to be considered endgame content. Sorry~

For those saying that WoW created the ideal of Endgame, that’s quite wrong. Endgame existed in early MMO’s before WoW’s time. Endgame came into existence because players at one point or another max level, professions and content over a period of days or years. Something as gamers, we’ve experienced many times.

At one point or another, people will all hit 80 in this game and have done 90% of content and have maxed professions. At that point, if there is nothing beyond that, the game becomes dull, like D3, even though it is a different genre. People will hit 80 and will max everything. That’s inevitable in MMO’s.

Alot of people say that levels don’t matter in this game. They do. You can only do certain zones properly once you hit those levels, you can only do certain dungeons when you hit certain levels, you can only farm certain materials until your level allows you to reach those zones, Levels do matter, its just not as much as they used too. The down scaling of levels was a great idea and well done feature. I can finally run around with my siblings who are always lower level in every game in our past 15 years of gaming.

Endgame content was designed to be hard and challenging, something to keep players occupied in the world when they hit the end of the road. In GW2 your occupied all the time but eventually, you’ll have done most the content and you’ll end up at this point.

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

The world events are challenging but they aren’t what people would call end-game challenging and they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds. If GW2 attaches new dungeons and they are of similar difficulty and 5-man size, people become bored quickly, same with world events. Easy isn’t always fun, cause its not satisfying, look at the WoW raid-finder crisis. Just think why strong fighters are always wanting to fight stronger fighters. No fun in beating up wimps who provide no challenge, well I’m sure it’d be somewhat amusing but not as fun.

Remember this is what we are looking for:

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

Not wimps that provide no challenge.

The current dungeons do provide a certain degree of challenge. I’ve done quite a few myself and managed to beat them. I found them very enjoyable, however there aren’t very many of them. They only require 5 people. Once again they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds to do them. This is why PVE-Guilds and players are very concerned. Is there any reason why PVE’ers should be gathering for other then just guild buffs? What are these buffs for if no there is no one to challenge? Why should they gather to begin with? If PVE endgame did exist, people wouldn’t be here posting so and there definitely would not be this many views either by the community.

The voice of concern here is from the PVE players and guilds. There is still plenty to do now since its early but is there anything worth doing when players hit the “endgame marker” is the true question. Players would like to know now cause they will be investing in much more play time waiting for things like that or preparing to move to other games… cough… MOP. (I seriously don’t want to play MOP)

Some players voice that progression gear will ruin the game. Yes it does but who says end-game content has to give progression gear? Ragnarok Online didn’t give progression gear all the time. People farmed endgame content for God awesome looking accessories. Just cause it looked cool, people farmed months for it.

“The heroes of Tyria, who want to protect and save Tyria from future problems, want to know if they are truly needed in the future or will just any commoner suffice to save Tyria, if so… they will move on to be heroes in other strange new lands”

This is what the PVE players are asking. It is crucial that this be clearly stated as well and soon. With MOP, a MMORPG with endgame, just over the hill. GW2 PVE-guilds and players are wanting to know. Time is money, especially to everyone in this category, GW2 franchise and players alike.

Baarak.2486:

Sky.9347:

Duveth.5742:

the game doesnt feel rewarding enough at max level to keep me playiing for long, i like the game and it has potential but with no gear progression, raids or mounts i dont think i will be playing in 2 months (at least pve)

And lucky for you, I am certain WoW will still be around and available to you.

I get the preference, but I am so very happy that GW2 doesn’t follow the WoW model and instead provides a refuge for those gamers like me who despise the gear treadmill and boring “end-game” raids that end up being hours of waiting, prepping, and wipe recovery weighed against minutes of actual fighting time (most of which is spent doing the EXACT SAME THING as every other person who plays your class and/or role).

So we can both enjoy our games.

I don’t understand why this concept is mutually exclusive from the current game right now. It would be possible and perhaps necessary to implement high end PvE content. Most people playing this game instead of WoW are doing so for a reason. If GW2 had a similar PVE system to WoW, and kept what it has right now the game would appeal to everyone, and it would be phenomenal.

But how can you both have extensive gear progression, and NOT have extensive gear progression… at the same time?

If GW2 had a similar PvE system to WoW, it would probably pale in comparison and become yet another Rift. It wouldn’t appeal to everyone, but rather would become a watered down WoW clone that appealed to no-one.

I fully expect to see more dungeons added to the game over time. Doesn’t really matter what level these dungeons are, due to the way the system works.

I guess I don’t really understand what it is you’re after. You say the dungeons are dull, easy, and that you want gear progression and mounts.

I think you’re blinding yourself.
1) Dungeons are dull and easy – really? So you’ve completed them all in explore mode?
2) Gear progression – really? This game was advertised as not having the gear progression treadmill, and that was the primary reason I bought it and will continue to play it. Surely you knew this before you bought the game, they have made it apparent that it was a design feature.
3) Mounts… I think this might be a cool thing to add in an expansion, but with the game so young and the world so large I think doing this without giving people a chance to appreciate the sheer size of maps while working on completion achievements would be a huge mistake.
4) Raids – well, the raids in WoW tend to be a several hour long process required to kill just a couple of bosses, with most of my time wasted waiting here, or waiting there. I really don’t miss them… at all.

Either you like it or you don’t. I for one love everything about the game that you seem to dislike.

Belcross just argued my point far more eloquently then I could have done. It’s not that I dont like Pvp, exploring, or DE’s I just also want there to be high end PvE as well.

Sky: If they changed systems this game would not be similar to Rift. Rift was just WoW with early DE’s and a confusing class system. GW2 would still have a great combat system, great pvp, great DE’s, and an excellent leveling system. It would add endgame PVE, that’s it.

Baarak.2486:

I don’t understand why this concept is mutually exclusive from the current game right now. It would be possible and perhaps necessary to implement high end PvE content. Most people playing this game instead of WoW are doing so for a reason. If GW2 had a similar PVE system to WoW, and kept what it has right now the game would appeal to everyone, and it would be phenomenal.

It has high end PvE content. The explore-able dungeons. There are three unique experiences per dungeon, minus story mode. 8 that I know of. 24 hardcore, bust your balls, dungeons that require major coordination, time, patience and skill. TWENTY FOUR. And that’s not including each and every permutation a path can have based on run specific instance dynamic events.

The major reward being tokens you trade in for armor. Meaning after subsequent runs you are guaranteed the thing you want. As opposed to other raiding games where you could do the EXACT same thing upwards of thirty times and never even see the piece of gear you are after. The minor rewards being loot from a more valuable table than standard or story mode monsters, and chests for each sub-boss along the way.

When you have cleared all four versions of each dungeon, and have yourself a set of exotic armor looted from them or purchased with the tokens, come back and let us all know how little end game content there was and how quick you burned through it.

Belcross.6127:

The game itself is sort of in a sense endgame through out and not at the same time especially for PVE. The content isn’t challenging enough to be considered endgame content. Sorry~

For those saying that WoW created the ideal of Endgame, that’s quite wrong. Endgame existed in early MMO’s before WoW’s time. Endgame came into existence because players at one point or another max level, professions and content over a period of days or years. Something as gamers, we’ve experienced many times.

At one point or another, people will all hit 80 in this game and have done 90% of content and have maxed professions. At that point, if there is nothing beyond that, the game becomes dull, like D3, even though it is a different genre. People will hit 80 and will max everything. That’s inevitable in MMO’s.

Alot of people say that levels don’t matter in this game. They do. You can only do certain zones properly once you hit those levels, you can only do certain dungeons when you hit certain levels, you can only farm certain materials until your level allows you to reach those zones, Levels do matter, its just not as much as they used too. The down scaling of levels was a great idea and well done feature. I can finally run around with my siblings who are always lower level in every game in our past 15 years of gaming.

Endgame content was designed to be hard and challenging, something to keep players occupied in the world when they hit the end of the road. In GW2 your occupied all the time but eventually, you’ll have done most the content and you’ll end up at this point.

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

The world events are challenging but they aren’t what people would call end-game challenging and they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds. If GW2 attaches new dungeons and they are of similar difficulty and 5-man size, people become bored quickly, same with world events. Easy isn’t always fun, cause its not satisfying, look at the WoW raid-finder crisis. Just think why strong fighters are always wanting to fight stronger fighters. No fun in beating up wimps who provide no challenge, well I’m sure it’d be somewhat amusing but not as fun.

Remember this is what we are looking for:

“What foe could possibly challenge the Heroes of Tyria who wield Legendary weapons and have accomplished impossible feats?!”

Not wimps that provide no challenge.

The current dungeons do provide a certain degree of challenge. I’ve done quite a few myself and managed to beat them. I found them very enjoyable, however there aren’t very many of them. They only require 5 people. Once again they don’t necessarily require PVE-Guilds to do them. This is why PVE-Guilds and players are very concerned. Is there any reason why PVE’ers should be gathering for other then just guild buffs? What are these buffs for if no there is no one to challenge? Why should they gather to begin with? If PVE endgame did exist, people wouldn’t be here posting so and there definitely would not be this many views either by the community.

The voice of concern here is from the PVE players and guilds. There is still plenty to do now since its early but is there anything worth doing when players hit the “endgame marker” is the true question. Players would like to know now cause they will be investing in much more play time waiting for things like that or preparing to move to other games… cough… MOP. (I seriously don’t want to play MOP)

Some players voice that progression gear will ruin the game. Yes it does but who says end-game content has to give progression gear? Ragnarok Online didn’t give progression gear all the time. People farmed endgame content for God awesome looking accessories. Just cause it looked cool, people farmed months for it.

“The heroes of Tyria, who want to protect and save Tyria from future problems, want to know if they are truly needed in the future or will just any commoner suffice to save Tyria, if so… they will move on to be heroes in other strange new lands”

This is what the PVE players are asking. It is crucial that this be clearly stated as well and soon. With MOP, a MMORPG with endgame, just over the hill. GW2 PVE-guilds and players are wanting to know. Time is money, especially to everyone in this category, GW2 franchise and players alike.

This is well-written, and although I am primarily a PvP player (and thus the “other” side) reading your post has helped me understand.

So PvE guilds want to know they will have Epic Challenges that will give them a reason and purpose in the game, over the long-term.

I can understand that.

I can’t speak for ANet, obviously, but it seems to me that this would be a concern that could absolutely be addressed in time, since that point likely won’t truly become an issue for several months more.

Good post though, bravo.

Baarak.2486:

Belcross just argued my point far more eloquently then I could have done. It’s not that I dont like Pvp, exploring, or DE’s I just also want there to be high end PvE as well.

Sky: If they changed systems this game would not be similar to Rift. Rift was just WoW with early DE’s and a confusing class system. GW2 would still have a great combat system, great pvp, great DE’s, and an excellent leveling system. It would add endgame PVE, that’s it.

The only thing I am truly “against” here is gear progression. I just don’t want to see that come in and ruin the #1 reason I decided to give GW2 a shot after having abandoned MMORPGs in general.

Harder content, sure. Epic challenges, sure. Guild uniting events, sounds great.

Extensive gear progression… /sigh, back to first-person shooters…

Right when you first make your character, THATS when you started the “Endgame” content. Get the generic MMORPG treadmill out of your head and try looking at the game more like… an FPS. Back your chair up a bit so you dont band your knees on the desk, but I honestly find GW2 has far more in common with games like Modern Warfare than it does with most MMOs – and in a good way. Youre just in, bam, playing the game. All levels are for is pacing the content, not gating the meat of the game in an attempt to milk you for cash.

Plus theres TONS of farming and grinding for people who want it.

“I don’t understand why this concept is mutually exclusive from the current game right now. It would be possible and perhaps necessary to implement high end PvE content. Most people playing this game instead of WoW are doing so for a reason. If GW2 had a similar PVE system to WoW, and kept what it has right now the game would appeal to everyone, and it would be phenomenal.”

I disagree somewhat. You can actually play most MMOs the way GW2 is set up, there is tons of stuff to do in WoW before hitting the level cap but most people just dont see it. The problem though is that everyone wants to do only the endgame content, so if the focus was on endgame then the rest of the game becomes the usual race to level cap. Then the development has to shift to endgame and leveling people faster.

However that will happen eventually anyway as ANet adds new content(which I am 99% sure will be level 80 stuff) and as most people hit level 80. But this isnt the “Need a new dungeon every month to keep people playing” type of game for a few reasons(no sub fee for one), so the focus will shift to PvP like it should be IMO.

MetaData.2750:

End game hasn’t been finished yet.

GARBAGE!
The 64k Karma Vendors that I found sell T3 Level 80 Items, I found them in Ebonhawke and in any major City.

Once I hit 80 I realized that I only had 36% of the map complete so there is a lot of stuff to do on maps. Usually I get bored once at “end game” but with GW2 that hasn’t been the case because straight from level 1 you are technically doing the “end game”. The game released with a bunch of content so if you are feeling “bored” I would just take a break as you don’t pay sub fees anyhow.

kZei.1056:

The game released with a bunch of content so if you are feeling “bored” I would just take a break as you don’t pay sub fees anyhow.

Agree 100%. It amazes how many people have hit level cap in the game already! I never had any desire to rush through the game just to say I hit max level in two days or one week. Since there’s no sub…go….and do something else if you’re bored.

I like how people get to 80 and then say they’re bored, lack of content, whatever their excuse… have you at least tried or beat all the 24 or so dungeons paths, completed 100% of the world, went through orr and conquered it, explored and try out each of the 1500 or so dynamic events they said were in the game… I honestly believe anyone that say they reach the end game, and now is bored, most likely have a whole lot more that they can do… that’s just my opinion…

alphametric.1092:

I like how people get to 80 and then say they’re bored, lack of content, whatever their excuse… have you at least tried or beat all the 24 or so dungeons paths, completed 100% of the world, went through orr and conquered it, explored and try out each of the 1500 or so dynamic events they said were in the game… I honestly believe anyone that say they reach the end game, and now is bored, most likely have a whole lot more that they can do… that’s just my opinion…

The problem is people have rushed to 80 and have no idea what other content is there because they didn’t actually pay attention to any of it. A few of my friends are 80 now also, they have never fought the Shatterer, Tequatl, or the Ice Dragon (forgot his name), they didn’t story mode of the last two dungeons, most of their gear doesn’t have runes or sigils, and they have exotic weapons (bought from TP), but not armor. And one still have the nerve to say “so, im 80 now and theres nothing to do”.

It’s not that there is nothing to do. There are hundreds of hours of things to do. It’s that some people want Anet to say “Hey, there’s a 3% chance these shiny things will drop in this 25 person raid. If that 3% does happen, its a 1/8 chance it will be for your class and a 1/25 chance it will be for you. Now go do that until we make something new!”. Without that direction these folks just have no idea what to do.

You can lead a horse to water. You cant make it drink.

nubery.9346:

End game is a bullkitten term used by raiders to justify wanting more content. It’s too true. Gw2 is not a pve raiding game and if you purchased it for that reason just quit now. The way I see it Anet built this game around the sort of design League of legends and dota style games use. Their endgame is the same game you played when you first started, leveling just unlocks abilities, skills, and the like to improve your chsracter’s capability to perform in the already existing environment. I’m so pleased with Anet for going this route and not turning the game into a instance grind. The grind in gw2 is playing the game itself, more games should be built around this.

Thumbs up to this gentleman, he summarized everything I was going to say for me.

Noctura.3908:

I usually avoid forums because I am somewhat of a book writer and not many people want to read a lot lol… but I wanted to say something about this. :P

Cool Post

hide spoiler

The entire game feels like end game to my friends and I. What ruins the game for a lot of people, in my opinion, is rushing to 80 and then having nothing to do. We started playing around Sep 2nd, and we have been in the norn area since starting. We decided to do all of our home cities, one by one, in order to learn, and see what there is to know about the fascinating worlds we come from.

I can honestly admit I have not had this much fun in a video game since I was a kid, and truly feel this is the game I have been waiting for. I feel the need to take it insanely slow, and I imagine I will still be in the starting areas when I hit 40 lol. I want to see all the events, meet the npcs, and drink ale with friends every night while laughing and talking about the events of the day.

I guess what I am trying to explain is that… if you order this high quality, amazing meal from a great chef, and then you walk into the kitchen 10 minutes later and you want to see the finished product, you aren’t going to be happy with it yet. Enjoy the anticipation of what is to come, savor it, let your imagination go wild with all the flavors and how wonderful of an experience it will be. Don’t let the fact that you can’t have the cake and eat it too stop you from the experience of enjoying it. It’s meant to be savored and taken slow.

I actually think end game could be something else besides grinding like everything else. I would enjoy making up an endgame where I wander the world and help people I see that are in trouble, and I am happy when I get a “thank you” and that is a nice quest reward for me. ^^ It makes things unpredictable, and you never know when you will be in the chilly icelands and see a fellow flower being beat up by a bunch of trolls. Rush in to save them and almost die yourself!! \>o</ Nyaah!!! If they say thanks then it makes me smile.
(To the flower I saved, whoever you were, thank you for the quest. My reward was an unidentified dye and your thanks. <3)

Slow down and look around at the world. It’s beautiful! I started a photo album, and have been having so much fun. I can’t wait to see what they have in store for this game, and I will patiently wait to see it, while I slowly crawl through this content with my friends.

Anyway that’s my opinion. Just have fun getting to 80. There is no carrot on a stick. There are carrots everywhere. O_O Muahahaha!

Have fun, my fellow GuildWarriors. ^-/

When quoting long posts spoiler tag is your friend, even though this post deserves to be seen.

As for the actual post I generaly agree. But I don’t like either of the extremes. “Carrot on a stick” like the usual MMOs are about long hours of boring grind to get to the carrot and even when I get to the supposed carrot I find out it’s a boring one because I prefer story-based carrots over raids, gear and PvP. “Carrots everywhere” means there is no motivation, no goal, no drive and soon I’m gonna get bored (or get carrot overdose).

Like I said, I’m the type of player that likes (and prefers) story-based RPGs, so GW2 presented interesting opportunity as it takes both of these extremes and combines them. I like to look at it as a path following pieces of a huge crunchy carrot (the main storyline) lined with all kinds of smaller carrots along the way (all the other stuff like vistas and events).
There is the drive forward, but instead of the carrot waiting at the end of the way, I get to eat it gradually while enjoying the small carrots when feeling like it, the big carrot is there, waiting to motivate me further when I get back from my detour.

Now I see carrots everywhere, so many carrots… O.o

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

nubery.9346:

End game is a bullkitten term used by raiders to justify wanting more content. It’s too true. Gw2 is not a pve raiding game and if you purchased it for that reason just quit now. The way I see it Anet built this game around the sort of design League of legends and dota style games use. Their endgame is the same game you played when you first started, leveling just unlocks abilities, skills, and the like to improve your chsracter’s capability to perform in the already existing environment. I’m so pleased with Anet for going this route and not turning the game into a instance grind. The grind in gw2 is playing the game itself, more games should be built around this.

Thumbs up to this gentleman, he summarized everything I was going to say for me.

Its also a fantastic way to alienate a lot of players, and lose a lot of money and an excellent chance to overtake WoW as the most popular MMO out there.

Have you try to open a pirate chest (jumping puzzle) in Lion’s arch? If not, try it with out any spoiler and you will see that exploration of gw2 is part of end game (at least for me).

Baarak.2486:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

nubery.9346:

End game is a bullkitten term used by raiders to justify wanting more content. It’s too true. Gw2 is not a pve raiding game and if you purchased it for that reason just quit now. The way I see it Anet built this game around the sort of design League of legends and dota style games use. Their endgame is the same game you played when you first started, leveling just unlocks abilities, skills, and the like to improve your chsracter’s capability to perform in the already existing environment. I’m so pleased with Anet for going this route and not turning the game into a instance grind. The grind in gw2 is playing the game itself, more games should be built around this.

Thumbs up to this gentleman, he summarized everything I was going to say for me.

Its also a fantastic way to alienate a lot of players, and lose a lot of money and an excellent chance to overtake WoW as the most popular MMO out there.

I don’t mean this to sound harsh or offend anyone…

I think the best plan is to alienate them. There is no need to compete with WoW or try to beat it or anything… the games are just too different. If the only way to get those players to try GW2 is by turning it into GWoW, then they aren’t interested in changing games anyway.

I don’t like this idea of new games being forced to cater to the WoW crowd, using WoW-esque systems, with WoW-like reward patterns.

I can not stand playing WoW. It was ok for a while, but it was never really a -good- game in my opinion… rather just a popular one. I would love for GW2 to stay as far away from WoW as possible, which I think they’ve done pretty well.

Endgame is important, though. It’s bad when devs forget that. Yeah you can have the best 1-80, but once it’s over with?
Not everyone wants to do all that again. They want to use the characters they put effort into.

So having quality endgame is very important for any thriving mmo. I don’t want to hit 80 and have the game say ‘haha, well, it was a nice ride right? Nothing left to do except pvp, might as well start a new character!’, I want there to be more things to do.

Sky.9347:

Baarak.2486:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

nubery.9346:

End game is a bullkitten term used by raiders to justify wanting more content. It’s too true. Gw2 is not a pve raiding game and if you purchased it for that reason just quit now. The way I see it Anet built this game around the sort of design League of legends and dota style games use. Their endgame is the same game you played when you first started, leveling just unlocks abilities, skills, and the like to improve your chsracter’s capability to perform in the already existing environment. I’m so pleased with Anet for going this route and not turning the game into a instance grind. The grind in gw2 is playing the game itself, more games should be built around this.

Thumbs up to this gentleman, he summarized everything I was going to say for me.

Its also a fantastic way to alienate a lot of players, and lose a lot of money and an excellent chance to overtake WoW as the most popular MMO out there.

I don’t mean this to sound harsh or offend anyone…

I think the best plan is to alienate them. There is no need to compete with WoW or try to beat it or anything… the games are just too different. If the only way to get those players to try GW2 is by turning it into GWoW, then they aren’t interested in changing games anyway.

I don’t like this idea of new games being forced to cater to the WoW crowd, using WoW-esque systems, with WoW-like reward patterns.

I can not stand playing WoW. It was ok for a while, but it was never really a -good- game in my opinion… rather just a popular one. I would love for GW2 to stay as far away from WoW as possible, which I think they’ve done pretty well.

You’re blinding yourself. This game is already not WoW. It’s surpassed WoW in the best way possible. The combat system. Adding in certain things that WoW and other MMOS have done well is not going to change that, or dilute what this game already has. It will only please more people, and make Arenanet more money. Which can only help the game grow.

I get the impression some of you are not familiar with Arena and how they do things. If you think the game we have now is the game as it will remain forever simply because there is no sub fee, you’re incredibly mistaken. There will be regular expansions just like there was for GW1.

If you’ve already run out of things to do in this game or find what is in it boring, this is absolutely the wrong game for you. The good news is, you don’t have to ‘keep’ paying for it.

So end game and pvp are all about making your weapons and armor “look” different.

No thanks

really i’m going to tell you guys a story why i did quit playing wow about a year ago……

Mabby that will make some people see why the wow model is not the only way that should be chose. I was playing in WoW as a healer (here in gw2 support ele). I was aqtualy a quite good healer, but there was one problem why i could not do the hardest content. That was due to the facts raids did so many people and because of that guild most commonly planned their raids during evening/night hours. And really not everyone can play up to midnight or even later. There are people who actualy have a life and need to go to bed early because they need to wake up early. Because of that lots of player that actualy are good enough for the hardest contend, cannot play it because of the fact you need such big groups for it. Here in GW2 you need 2 man for the hardest dungeons, i tried 1 explore until now with randoms. It actualy did not succeed. But i can say it’s hard. When my friends have a high enough lvl i actualy want to try explores with them, but not during night times, but for example on sunday afternoon, that actualy is really wel posseble, since you only need 5 man for a dungeon and not 25 man. So there is way easier to find a time you all can be online and play it.

In my oppion the ppl who are QQing about gear progression just should start looking outside their litle box or go back to a game that provide the vision fo their litle box. And even more important, try those explores before you start QQing about dungeons being to easy since most ppl i see QQ here about that, give me the idea they did never entered one exploreble. And with storymode being desinged to be easy so everyone can actualy play it it’s not a good mesurment for the hardest contened. Beside the story mode here can actualy be harder as certain endbosses in WoW, since i heard stories from people that actualy did kill bosses literly facerolling there, try that in GW2.

I rest my case.

morrigana sedai.2091:

really i’m going to tell you guys a story why i did quit playing wow about a year ago……

Mabby that will make some people see why the wow model is not the only way that should be chose. I was playing in WoW as a healer (here in gw2 support ele). I was aqtualy a quite good healer, but there was one problem why i could not do the hardest content. That was due to the facts raids did so many people and because of that guild most commonly planned their raids during evening/night hours. And really not everyone can play up to midnight or even later. There are people who actualy have a life and need to go to bed early because they need to wake up early. Because of that lots of player that actualy are good enough for the hardest contend, cannot play it because of the fact you need such big groups for it. Here in GW2 you need 2 man for the hardest dungeons, i tried 1 explore until now with randoms. It actualy did not succeed. But i can say it’s hard. When my friends have a high enough lvl i actualy want to try explores with them, but not during night times, but for example on sunday afternoon, that actualy is really wel posseble, since you only need 5 man for a dungeon and not 25 man. So there is way easier to find a time you all can be online and play it.

In my oppion the ppl who are QQing about gear progression just should start looking outside their litle box or go back to a game that provide the vision fo their litle box. And even more important, try those explores before you start QQing about dungeons being to easy since most ppl i see QQ here about that, give me the idea they did never entered one exploreble. And with storymode being desinged to be easy so everyone can actualy play it it’s not a good mesurment for the hardest contened. Beside the story mode here can actualy be harder as certain endbosses in WoW, since i heard stories from people that actualy did kill bosses literly facerolling there, try that in GW2.

I rest my case.

Thenk yu sir
Dis novel hes opind up mi eyez tu a wherl nu werld

There’s plenty of grind options at end game if that’s what your looking for. That, does seem to be what you are complaining about. Lots of karma and cash needed for the really nice armor. Lots of grinding if you want to craft orange weapons, jewelry, armor.

I personally hate grinding and the end game play hasn’t felt grindy at all. Yep, lots of events to do, lots of tough areas to work on, maps to complete, dungeons, none of which are easy with the level scaling mechanism. Even though there may be some of the same events in zones that are familiar they are very different based on the group there. No same old daily repeatable quest. If that’s what your missing there are plenty of MMOs with monthly subs out there for you.

There isn’t any end game content and the dynamic events are repetitive to an extent when you’re not even guaranteed rare gear. This can be very disappointing to the players who want that. Also, the events are the same. (Heck, only one temple event is working on Dragonbrand server.) So where is the diversity? People want different things. The gear from the events in Ruins of Orr is terrible. IT has the same model as the gear from Temple of Dwyna event. I know this game is about look, skins, blah, blah..people want excitement. I will be very sad if this game flops. However, I do enjoy the PvP and WvW. Those are the two modes that actually keep me interested. Furthermore, they need to allow more waypoints in WvW, because when you die you run for like 10 minutes to get back to the action or to look for a fight.

Fericity.3421:

Endgame is important, though. It’s bad when devs forget that. Yeah you can have the best 1-80, but once it’s over with?
Not everyone wants to do all that again. They want to use the characters they put effort into.

So having quality endgame is very important for any thriving mmo. I don’t want to hit 80 and have the game say ‘haha, well, it was a nice ride right? Nothing left to do except pvp, might as well start a new character!’, I want there to be more things to do.

Open up your hero page. Go down to achievements. OH look SO many things to do. Welcome to end game.

AllAmerDB.2840:

There isn’t any end game content and the dynamic events are repetitive to an extent when you’re not even guaranteed rare gear. This can be very disappointing to the players who want that. Also, the events are the same. (Heck, only one temple event is working on Dragonbrand server.) So where is the diversity? People want different things. The gear from the events in Ruins of Orr is terrible. IT has the same model as the gear from Temple of Dwyna event. I know this game is about look, skins, blah, blah..people want excitement. I will be very sad if this game flops. However, I do enjoy the PvP and WvW. Those are the two modes that actually keep me interested. Furthermore, they need to allow more waypoints in WvW, because when you die you run for like 10 minutes to get back to the action or to look for a fight.

Wait for the res.

This game is all about exploration. I’ve played full time (18 hours per day) since headstart and only have a lvl 42 ele and a lvl 32 engi. So I’m not in a rush to get to max lvl but rather enjoy to the fullest what I’m doing along the way. But even when I reach it, it’s enough for me to keep doing what I enjoy and pvp as a sideshow until new content is released.
I also don’t buy the argument of no sense of progression when comparing to other games. In those other games you also don’t progress nor become more powerful because every new gear set only adds a few more of the same main stats for you class and there’s no real viable ways to spec differently. Mostly each class can take on 2 or 3 roles so there’s also 2 or 3 gearsets focusing on those and it usually is paired with the one spec to rule them all aka cookiecutter build.
To prevent becoming more powerful relatively in those games the mobs have an equal increase in stats or added skills. If you don’t see such type of progression as fake and don’t realise you’re actually just running after the carrot on the stick but don’t really improve your character relative to mobs, raid bosses or other players, that’s quite sad really. So it’s for me not even a feeling of progression.
As for end game content in those games, you mean that 1 new raidcluster you clear within a few weeks and a handful of the same repeatable quests you’re doing ad nauseum until the next patch hits? That’s far less content for max. level than in GW2 because for a change lower level content isn’t made obsolete.

No, what I mean end game in achieving better gear to move forward in content. I have all crafted Berserker gear and can pretty much solo anything. Dynamic events no one ever fails. ITs fairly easy. Why do the events when the gear after the temple events doesn’t even look good and its minimal upgrade?
I will admit leveling is fun, so I will just level all characters to 80. Thats it. And maybe some WvW and PvP. The PVe is lacking substantially.

AllAmerDB.2840:

No, what I mean end game in achieving better gear to move forward in content. I have all crafted Berserker gear and can pretty much solo anything. Dynamic events no one ever fails. ITs fairly easy. Why do the events when the gear after the temple events doesn’t even look good and its minimal upgrade?
I will admit leveling is fun, so I will just level all characters to 80. Thats it. And maybe some WvW and PvP. The PVe is lacking substantially.

Thats your problem then. You referring to gear progression not end game. This game does not have gear progression. It has true progression. Theres a little thing in your hero sheet call achievements. Do those things. That is your progression. That is TRUE progression. You never out level your content so there no point for the whole shiny carrot mentality.

Gear isn’t progression in WoW either, so I don’t understand these arguments. Boss kills are progression. Go clear all the explorable modes, there’s your progression.

And the GW2 dungeon gear isn’t the equivalent of WoW gear, which is disposable stuff that allows you entry to the next raid. GW2 dungeon gear is the equivalent of WoW raid mounts and titles.

I will view sitting around in Lion’s Arch in a full Orr dungeon set as the same as sitting around in Dalaran on my ICC 25man drake.

No, but gear is required to move further in content. This game doesn’t really require that. I’ve done all dungeons. Nothing special. Easy.

In so far as “end game” I certainly hope that ArenaNet has enough sense not to implement some kind of raid grind gear treadmill. This kind of content tends to marginalize the rest of the game in just about every MMO I have ever had that supports endgame.

I plan to approach “endgame” just as I do now; I’ll continue to participate in sPvP and WvW, explore the world, and roll a few more characters.

AllAmerDB.2840:

No, but gear is required to move further in content. This game doesn’t really require that. I’ve done all dungeons. Nothing special. Easy.

Thats actually wrong. Gear is not required to move further in content. You can make content harder without requiring better gear. It forces you to improve your skill level. As for doing all the dungeons. Have you done every single explore mode?

Sino, most raid/content progression requires better gear. Maybe that is how they are designed. You are correct it can be designed without requiring that.

AllAmerDB.2840:

No, but gear is required to move further in content. This game doesn’t really require that. I’ve done all dungeons. Nothing special. Easy.

A few bosses in WoW are pure gear-checks (Patchwerk for example) but for most the main difficulty adjustment in high end raiding comes from new and increasingly complex boss mechanics and a need to perform the tactics, your roles & your rotations flawlessly as the fights become less forgiving of mistakes. And someone min-maxing can often out-do someone in better gear who doesn’t optimise their performance.

GW2 explorable modes focus on the unforgiving mechanics and a need to understand your class and build. and also the abilities of those around you.

You’ve cleared all explorable mode paths in all instances? Really?