Guild Wars 2

So I’m looking at some of the threads of people complaining about how Diminishing Return (DR) will cripple crafting professions more then it will deter botters. I usually have 1 place in each area I like to gather mats for crafting. Now I hear that if I stay in one place and kill, say centaurs, too long that eventually my drops become nill. My questions on this are:

1) Is DR based on how long you are in an area or how many creatures within that area you slay? Does the DR start immediatly or is there a delay before it kicks in?

2) How big is the “area” that a particular DR effects?

3) How do I reset a DR in an area? If I go to an adjacent area and kill 1 monster does it reset for that previous area? Is there a cooldown period?

4) More a suggestion then an actual question but: Would it be possible to put indicator for how high your diminishing return is in a particular area, dungeon, or dynamic event, whether it be a percentage or a number from 1-10?

I apologize for any typos or misconceptions. From what I read it sounds like DR will turn me from a self-sufficient crafter, to one that is dependent on the TP to get necessary mats due to nerfed farming.

edit: wording

1. If you are at level you should not hit the diminishing returns. The speed which you kill and progress through mobs and events will be slow enough to not ever hit the diminishing returns.

Mob killing DR will typically only hit level 70+ players who engage in heavy event concentration areas and/or quickly kill mobs over a period of time. What this time is, is not definitive. Anecdotally, it’s about 30 minutes to 1 hour of mob killing will start DR, really depending on how many mobs you can kill in that time.

2. DR does not care how long you are in an area. You can stay the whole day in the exact same area and never hit DR. It’s most likely based on how many mobs you kill over a period of time and for events, how many events you complete over a period of time. My own experience shows anecdotally to be that if you run 12++ events in under an hour, the DR kicks in quickly and (example) your karma gain can drop from 290 per event to as low as 19+ (at level 80).

Again, as a leveling character, this won’t affect you unless you join a low level zerg, which you’re less likely to do since you move out of the zone so quickly anyway.

3. To reset, just log out for 30 minutes to 1 hour. It’s the safest bet and there’s no real guage of exactly how long you need to wait.

Why should you log out after DR hits? Because once your character is diminished, it affects ALL your activity gains in any map and/or zone. You can change location and map and you will still have DR on you. That is how it is working for me at the moment – I tried changing zones and events to get around DR, it simply doesn’t work.

I would like to think this is a bug because noone could purposely build something so intrinsically hostile to the player as that!

I am a huge opponent of the anti-farm code, but as a leveling player, do not worry! You will most likely not hit this even if you tried. It will only really hit you once you hit 80.

^ the fact that it affects all mobs in all zones is so gamebreaking lol

Very informative, I’m curious to know how you gained this knowledge. Was it through experience or is there a source I can thumb through?

But I would like to suggest that AN put a DR indicator, especially since it follows you through a different zone.

I think he’s just speculating. Though, I will agree that it does seem to affect all mobs in all zones. I can also assume that due to the nature of the system and how releasing the specifics of its operation and how it could allow people to circumvent it, ArenaNet will likely never reveal how it works.

I find that DR dosen’t help with the bots at all. I think it actually hurts the players much more than helps. Someone like me that works nights and games on off nights, can spend hours, like 4-8 playing.

Makes no sense to punish me for playing long stretches at a time. No wonder i haven’t been getting much in the loot department.

Brazensage has a good suggestion about some icon to let you know when you hit the point of DR.

Also DR hits more quickly upon Warrior/Guardians due to he nature of their attack’s. If your dual wielding as a Warrior or Using a Greatsword’s as either or, you will hit DR rather quickly in a Defend event were they throw trash mobs in vast numbers with a few vets.

Very informative, I’m curious to know how you gained this knowledge. Was it through experience or is there a source I can thumb through?

Mostly through playing the lower level Norn zone. I’ve mainly been playing the entire week since last Saturday. that’s about 5 hours per night after work, every night in that zone with a few zone switches trying to figure out why my Karma gains dropped to 19+ . I didn’t even know of the diminishin returns until I started this area shortly after I hit Orr (level 80 zone) and quickly left due to annoyances there. Also, I was missing so many low level crafting materials, i really did have to go back to the lowbie areas anyway.

I’ve detailed in other posts/replies how quickly I could hit the diminished state because this zone has multiple stacking, quick to do, chain events, mostly soloable (except for the raid events). without speed and taking your time, you could do 8 events back to back easily. With a 20 second speed burst, you can do 10. It probably takes 30 odd minutes to complete this circuit.

that’s how i hit the DR, the rest I put together myself based on trial and error. It’s still incomplete info as I have not sat down to explicitely test how long and how many events/mobs is required.

Brazensage.1328:

But I would like to suggest that AN put a DR indicator.

This is brilliant. Would you please repeat that in the suggestions forum?

EDIT: What is the best way to know when you’re under the influence of DR?

Why should you log out after DR hits? Because once your character is diminished, it affects ALL your activity gains in any map and/or zone. You can change location and map and you will still have DR on you.

what? I mean… WHAT?

you can’t be serious. No company can do such thing…

I hope you just mean it looked that way, bc that really can’t be the official way it works

Brazensage.1328:

So I’m looking at some of the threads of people complaining about how Diminishing Return (DR) will cripple crafting professions more then it will deter botters. I usually have 1 place in each area I like to gather mats for crafting. Now I hear that if I stay in one place and kill, say centaurs, too long that eventually my drops become nill. My questions on this are:

1) Is DR based on how long you are in an area or how many creatures within that area you slay? Does the DR start immediatly or is there a delay before it kicks in?

2) How big is the “area” that a particular DR effects?

3) How do I reset a DR in an area? If I go to an adjacent area and kill 1 monster does it reset for that previous area? Is there a cooldown period?

4) More a suggestion then an actual question but: Would it be possible to put indicator for how high your diminishing return is in a particular area, dungeon, or dynamic event, whether it be a percentage or a number from 1-10?

I apologize for any typos or misconceptions. From what I read it sounds like DR will turn me from a self-sufficient crafter, to one that is dependent on the TP to get necessary mats due to nerfed farming.

edit: wording

The first reply in this thread is only relevant to diminishing returns for loot. There is a separate diminishing returns system for Dynamic Events.

1. Dynamic Event DR is based on how FAST you clear dynamic events, not which events or where you complete them. Clearing a chain of events very quickly is likely to trigger DR, while sitting at a single event all day and doing it every time it comes up will likely never trigger DR. In my experience, clearing about 8-10 dynamic events in a half-hour period, or 16-20 in an hour will trigger DR. Others have reported it triggering far earlier than this, some from their first event of the day.

Before it activates, there is no reduction in rewards at all, and no indication that one is nearing the limit. Once the dynamic event DR activates, the next event completed will reward significantly less karma, money, and exp. Each event completed after that will reward progressively less, until rewards reach less than 1% of their normal amounts.

2. Once triggered, moving zones has no effect on the Dynamic Event DR. ALL events EVERYWHERE are affected.

3. In order to reset the DR, one must stop doing events for about an hour.

but isnt the loot DR a different DR than the event one?

I hit it last night with my 44 thief in an area that just had a lot of DEs. I was in one of those situations where I had completed all the hearts my level and was using DEs to catch up a level so that I could move on to the next set of hearts.

Where are the patch notes for DR? I did not see them.

This does not stop farmers unless it is an account thing which would be terrible, they can just switch to another 80 and farm… continue until Arena net is forced to make DR so ridiculous no regular player plays.

This will limit gear progression dramatically in a game were gear is more about aesthetics than stats. Low incentive to farm to begin with has now become even lower.

Where did they state this?

cesmode.4257:

Where are the patch notes for DR? I did not see them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-September-17th-2012/first#post149651

“Added a system to limit the experience and gold that players can receive from speed-farming dungeons.”

Seems a DR on DE’s and anti farm script were stealth implemented at the same time as the dungeon cap. Or that the admitted bug with the dungeon cap is affecting farming and DEs.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

“Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible."

Right, I was about to say that is for dungeons..and I agree with them on that. Finding the easiest dungeon and quickest dungeon to blow through 20 times a day for loot/xp/gold/tokens is bad.

Look at it this way, in a game like WoW, they limit you to badges awarded for one 7 runs per week ONLY. Still, you get the gold/xp/loot as you would, but the gold/xp/loot from farming dungeons in that game is mediocre at best. Definately not the best way to level.

My point is, putting a limit on the rewards for dungeon farming is a good thing. Helps the game by not fluffing everything, and prevents burnout from players.

If this made its way into DE’s, Id be worried. Honestly, I havent noticed any of this other than the ocassional bug where I dont get any reward at all. Then the next DE I do, I get reward. Its random.

Do we have clarification from Anet saying this made its way into DEs?

Edit: I saw they acknowledged it.

OK so relax guys. Whats the fuss?

cesmode.4257:

Edit: I saw they acknowledged it.

OK so relax guys. Whats the fuss?

Because people have been putting up with it for days. It was poorly tested. They need a PTR, cause release has proven one thing. If they make something, we can break it.

Agreed they need a PTR. And a few days? We are going on day number three, people have not been putting up with it for days. Its been maybe two.

Still, people need to chill. They will fix it. Its not destroying the game, its not killing the economy. Life goes on in and out of GW2. It will be fixed.

Its not like you cant do the same DE 2 or 3 times in a row without getting DR. Sounds like it takes a while.

Also, if this is time wasted for you until they fix it, roll an alt or log off for a few days until they fix it. No sub remember? The game is still worth the $$.

And your picture is funny

cesmode.4257:

Edit: I saw they acknowledged it.

OK so relax guys. Whats the fuss?

The fuss is this:

In my particular case / experience my game play has been reduced to playing in 30min intervals with roughly a hour cool down period. So play 30mins, hit DR, go watch TV for a hour, play 30 mins, hit DR, pvp for a hour, play for 30 mins, do jumping challenge for a hour, play 30 mins, think why the hell am I putting up with this, log off for the day and hope something changes.

I have tolerated this for days, I am tired of it, enough is enough. So here I am on the forums looking for info and expressing my discontent.

I still havent really noticed this problem. I still get decent XP and Kharma and all. Maybe Im just not paying attention.

I am going to post a suggestion for a DR indicator on the suggestions now if it isn’t already there.

It is funny that they were able to react (overreact) so quickly a problem and get this code into place in nothing flat but now it is taking them days to fix it. I would suggest that since DEs are THE core mechanic of this game that they might want to simply remove this code from production NOW. Seriously, this is like WoW adding code that says you can only do quests for 30 minutes before you have to take a 30 minute break. This is genuinely the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Again, DEs are the core mechanic of the game. They have made this clear when they have tried to explain that hearts are not the core leveling mechanic and don’t even play a significant role in the ‘endgame’ zones. Go craft for 30 mins? I don’t really want to pay for a round trip of teleportation to and from Orr every hour. Go pvp for 30min? Already been in the queue for 40.

Really, think this though. If people have to take a break every 30 mins to and hour chances are going to get stronger each time that they will log out for a break and just not bother to come back. Keep in mind that everyone’s biggest competitor is releasing an expansion next week. This isn’t a great time to be encouraging people to log out of your game just because they decided to run the DEs in Orr as they were designed.

Kailthir.6384:

I find that DR dosen’t help with the bots at all. I think it actually hurts the players much more than helps.

You really can’t make that assessment though. You can see the bots attacking and going from place to place, but you cannot see their inventory and what they’ve earned for their “efforts”. I’m hoping that the DR just becomes so taxing on the pay for money operations that it’s just not seen as worth it any longer, and then they quit. I’d like this to happen sooner, and if stricter DR permit that then I can suffer only getting a handful of scales for the evening, as much as that hinders my crafting. i tried jumping zones after noticing no loot dropping and it seemed to produce drops form creatures, but it rapidly diminished.

I can’t tell if this is just a string of bad luck, or it was actually diminished. But for comparison, I can do a DE in a zone with tons of mobs spawning and the loot just drops in droves. As soon as I do anything approaching farming for a particular fine crafting material, the drops dry up.

“Why should you log out after DR hits? Because once your character is diminished, it affects ALL your activity gains in any map and/or zone. You can change location and map and you will still have DR on you. That is how it is working for me at the moment – I tried changing zones and events to get around DR, it simply doesn’t work”

Holy moley, is this true? That is so, so terrible. I have a hard time believing it’s intended, because that is just insane.

This DR mechanic is ridiculous. Punishing people for doing what they like in game makes no sense. Its like giving a pvper less glory after they play an hour. Some people like to farm I mean what happens when the starter zones are all dead(already started) and you want to go back and do the DEs? So u go back ur solo and by the time you get thru 1/6th of a zone ull be on DR. Just a band aid on a bigger issue its never good to punish players cause of botters or cause some people ran a dungeon over and over and got a little extra gold. This will only lead to more policing and more control over what players like to do.

Fidjit.4162:

“Why should you log out after DR hits? Because once your character is diminished, it affects ALL your activity gains in any map and/or zone. You can change location and map and you will still have DR on you. That is how it is working for me at the moment – I tried changing zones and events to get around DR, it simply doesn’t work”

Holy moley, is this true? That is so, so terrible. I have a hard time believing it’s intended, because that is just insane.

It is true for mob kills and also incorrect as to the reset(based on my experience).

1- You character seems to gain a persisting DR based on your kills/hour and overall playtime (if you don’t play very often in a day, you don’t get the DR. If you play a lot and have a high farm rate, it persists like no one’s business). It will impact how fast the DR kicks in, regardless of the zone. If you switch areas, it will soft-reset the hard DR, but the amount of kills before it kicks in is significantly reduced.

Once upon a time, I was able to kill mobs for an hour before it kicked in. After struggling with certain group events where I killed a massive number of mobs (you know the Orr events that spawn waves and waves until you are successful), it got to the point that about 15 minutes of killing froze my drops to nothing.

2- As for the logging out, that does seem to relieve the penalty to some extent. It is like changing areas. However, it doesn’t start to relieve the character DR unless I remained logged out for at least 24 hours. I tested this using the claw of Jormag. I was logged off for ~2.15 hours between the spawn. I watched my rare count do the following pattern over the course of a couple days 5 – 4- 4- 3- 2- 0 – 1- 0 – 0 – 0. If I logged back in for each spawn, my DR never got better.

I did find that going to WvW and running around the zone helped the character DR (I did this for about 5 hours w some logout time of course). That actually bumped my rare count up and it went with 3 – 3 – 1 – 0 – 0. Sitting logged out for a long time did the same. It’s my experience that the character can rack up a DR which becomes crippling and requires even longer breaks to actually remove. I don’t play my 80 anymore. All that logged out time probably means it isn’t too bad anymore, but I grew weary of dealing with it’s terrible DR.

All I know is that the two orichalcum veins I knew the locations of keep moving.

Is this related to their diminishing returns mechanic?

Anecdote:

My SO had to take care of some RL stuff about 20 minutes. I stayed in game in the same place waiting for her to finish, and kept getting the same couple of rapid respawns of aggro mobs.

By the time she came back they were not dropping anything at all. I was on a 70 but mobs were 65.

Jnaathra.6549:

cesmode.4257:

Edit: I saw they acknowledged it.

OK so relax guys. Whats the fuss?

Because people have been putting up with it for days. It was poorly tested. They need a PTR, cause release has proven one thing. If they make something, we can break it.

I am a software tester. That picture you linked is LITERALLY five feet from me on the wall.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

on-topic, i think they’ll get this fixed before I hit 80 (i’m only lvl 15 right now. =P)

Ansultares.1567:

All I know is that the two orichalcum veins I knew the locations of keep moving.

Is this related to their diminishing returns mechanic?

As far as I know, no it is not. Usually if I go from an overflow to a regular server, some of the nodes move around.

Based entirely on my personal experiences, I’ve found all of the things in ounkeo’s post to be accurate except for one thing: DR being character based.

There’s a certain spot I can farm that causes my DR to kick in within ~30 minutes every time (the one thing I can be 100% sure of is that it’s based on either mobs killed or loot gained, not time spent.) However, whenever I leave the area and go somewhere else, my drops instantly return to normal.

The irony of this thread is that I created it to get answers from Devs/Mods on how DR actually works. Instead it was moved from the Discussions forum over the the PHP forum, where we are more likely to speculate more then get actual answers.