Guild Wars 2

Hello,

I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 for a few months now, but I have a lot of problems picking a class. I like melee, so initially I rolled a Guardian and got it to level 50-some before deleting it in order to transfer servers. Part of what encouraged this move was that Guardian seemed incredibly dull to play to me at the time. Similarly, Warrior had the same effect when I tried it after the move.

From what I heard, Elementalists are very fun and challenging, and their D/D weapon set was basically melee, so I tried that out. However, while leveling it, I found that my survivability was terrible and I could not take down veteran monsters even if I evaded attacks perfectly. They just didn’t do enough damage, especially their autoattack, which I heard got nerfed a few patches ago. The suggestions in world chat were to use a scepter to level – however, this made Elementalist significantly less fun to play, and I ended up deciding not to stick with it.

From that point, I went on to try every single class. Thief first, then Necromancer, then Mesmer. I avoided Engineer because I don’t really enjoy ranged at all, and Ranger because their melee options are pretty underpowered (their weapon skills are almost all variants of Warrior weapon skills so I doubt I would’ve enjoyed them much anyway).

So, I don’t know what class to play. As of right now, I’m leaning a bit towards Thief, because of their high damage output and mobility. However, as my post mentions, I really liked D/D Elementalist – in terms of fun, nothing else really compared, but it really irked me that I had a ridiculous amount of trouble even leveling in starter areas because of their poor survivability and low base values. From what I heard, higher levels aren’t a whole lot better either, since traits necessary for survivability have much higher point requirements now – D/D Elementalist is basically out of the metagame at the moment, and from what people say, it seems like it’s going to be that way for a while. To be honest, playing Thief would just be an emulation of playing D/D Elementalist, except I can actually do stuff without dying all the time – their playstyles are somewhat similar, favoring high mobility (however I’ll miss out on element switching).

So, I’m confused as to what to play, and could use some advice. I really like this game, but I don’t have the time or attention span to level more than one character, so I want to make sure the class I choose is reasonably good and fun for me.

I’ve played Elementalist since the first Beta. If you do bad damage while leveling, you probably have the wrong gear. If you’ve issues surviving, you definitively have the wrong build.

You can quite easily build an Elementalist to be close to invincible. When you’ve learned the profession almost entirely, you can do that with a Zerker-build. The Elementalist gets their survivability from traits and skills, many which aren’t available in lower levels.

Meta-game? That’s actually for Min/Maxers. Unless you’re in a hardcore-speedclear group (which most of the vocal min/maxers naively believes that everyone should/is in) the “Meta” matter not. If you’re not playing with Hardcore people, you can easily play any profession and outplay your whole group (i.e. making the run smooth for everyone)

My Elementalist is always the better choice when doing dungeons when compared to the Warrior. The thing is that the elementalist has a steep learning-curve, while the Warrior is the overall easiest profession to play.

It sounds like the Elementalist is a perfect pick for you. What level is it?

Oh, and you never have to wield anything except D/D. But perhaps you’d be better off with a staff on >some< FotM Bosses (but just the bosses, and just a few of those).

Elementalist is a hard class to learn off the bat that I agree, also its one of the more fun classes. The learning curve it’s fairly steep but once you learn how to play the class it’s very exciting.

As a D/D elementalist you don’t really want to be auto attacking unless you are in Air Attunement (or fire sometimes) as those 2 tend to be the most effective. You have lots of utilities that can make a huge difference in your survival. IL give a few examples that you might want to try, some may be more fun or effective than others.

Glyph of Storms- This little baby will have you put down an AOE skill depending on what attunement you are on. The 2 main ones to look at are Water and Earth. If you are in earth this will put an AOE blind (5 person cap) on top of doing damage. The Water version puts Chilled on the enemy which makes movement/skill recharge slower.

Mist Form- It’s your clutch Oh S*** skill.

Glyph of Lesser Elementals- Summons an elemental depending on what attunement you are in. Since you have trouble surviving I recommend you use the Water or Earth version as well since they are the 2 tankiest ones. Also the water version can heal as well.

Conjure Lightning Hammer- It’s a conjure skill so once you use it, you get a new weapon which means technically you won’t be D/D. But the auto attack on this hammer causes blind on the 3rd hit. Also it boosts your base stats so you will be doing more damage with it than you normally would.

Other Things to consider…
Using most Cantrips will not interrupt channel skills. So what you can do is use Churning Earth (5 on Earth as D/D) and right before the channel goes off you can use Lightning Flash (utility) and teleport yourself on top of the enemy. At low levels that in itself should do at least 50% of most normal enemies’ health.

Hope some of those tips help with the survivability issue…

As far as other classes, I would not disregard the ranger because the skills may seem similar on the GS as compared to a warrior. Ranger in fact has 2 of the most fun/unique weapons in game. Them being the Greatsword and Sword.

Phadde.7362:

It sounds like the Elementalist is a perfect pick for you. What level is it?

Oh, and you never have to wield anything except D/D. But perhaps you’d be better off with a staff on >some< FotM Bosses (but just the bosses, and just a few of those).

I definitely didn’t level it very high because of how ridiculously weak it was at first. It was only level 20 or so when I made a new character (so I never got to any of the high-level traits). I had the same-level Masterwork armor and daggers at the time as well.

Thank you both for your suggestions. I didn’t know that Cantrips didn’t interrupt channeling – that’s a good tip.

Can I ask one more thing – what big trait should I go for first? Lots of guides give you what traits to take, but very few are focused on the best way to level, and the best things to take first.

EDIT: And for something more “meta,” I always find it hard in games like these to go around picking a class. How does everyone else do it? In the original Guild Wars and in many other games, classes are based around roles and playstyle – e.g. Warrior is damage soaker and melee muscle. However, in Guild Wars 2, this is clearly not the case. With things like Necromancer and Elementalist having strong melee options, it all gets pretty confusing. Classes are only tied together loosely by a single class mechanic. Many people can like a single weapon set for a class and nothing else. Are players supposed to pick by the concept of the class? Or by their enjoyment of a single weapon set? Even worse, the concept of the class doesn’t seem to actually determine much about what they end up being good at, or what roles they play. How’re players supposed to find a class that “fits” them, if classes are designed to be so confusing?

Elementalist is a very exciting class once you’ve master the 4 sets of skills, dodging and survival aspect of the game. It how ever is true elementalists lose quite a bit in DPS compared to most classes. usual for the sake of building up our survivial to match other classes but its still a great class if you ask me

I’m still unsure. In the edit to my second post, I asked if I should be picking a class for the concept, or for a specific weapon set that I found fun. I still don’t know – in terms of concept, I think I’d rather play Thief more than anything. But talking about specific weapons only, I think I’d still prefer Elementalist.

You should pick a Profession to main based on how fun it is to play. I myself love the idea of the Necromancer, but I can’t bare to play it because it’s so dumb-down compared to the Elementalist (this is my take on what you mean by “concept”). You’re going to be in combat most of the time, rather than looking at the cool effects that appear when a Thief dodges. Enjoyment comes first.

In GW2, each profession can focus on general support or damage (or a mixture of many things). The difference is how they achieve those things.

An Elementalist might play Support by utilizing different healing/cleanse skills & Traits; Building around Auras that gives more damage, defense, utility (etc.), and is shared with everyone in the Party; Building a bit more Tanky and try to maintain aggro while supporting allies.

A Theif might do this by Stealthing allies to make it possible to skip certain parts in a Dungeon; Building around Venoms that are shared with everyone in the Party that heals upon hit and applies all nasty things to the victim; Maybe blinding foes so that their attacks miss partymembers.

The Thief and the Elementalist plays quite differently in GW2. While the Elementalist is like playing a fairly advanced and dynamic Piano Sonata that lasts for about a ½ minute, and utilizing about 35 different skills and active traits to do a ton of stuff, puzzling together Combo Fields and Finishers and generally feel really good about it and rewarded…

… The Thief has a rather minimalist design. You might continually stab people in the back with your needles, or spam the Sword auto-attack. That part isn’t all that interesting. However, you’re generally very fragile, so you have to constantly look at animations and be ready to avoid being hit by dodging, evading, teleporting or blinding.

If you like the Elementalist, it’s a ton of fun and gets progressively more complex the more you learn. The learning curve is said to be steep, but the fact is, you’ll learn everything you need while you level up.

Initial Dagger/Dagger rotation

If you wheren’t aware already, the D/D have a skill rotation that’s insanely well-used.

Air Attunement:
(3:Shocking Aura)
4:Ride the Lightning
5:Updraft

The Foe is now knocked back by Updraft, while you rolled backwards. Now you close the gap with Burning Rush (3) that explodes at the end for a great deal of damage and leaves a Fire Field behind.

Fire Attunement:
3:Burning Rush (Fire Field)
4:Ring of Fire (Fire Field)
(If you manage to get in 5:Fire Grab while the foe is burning, do so)

You’re now surrounded by the 2 Fire Fields that you’ve created. Now you need to do a Blast Finisher, which grants you Might for more damage.

Earth Attunement:
4: Earthquake (Blast Finisher)

If you’ve the Utility Skill “Arcane Wave”, use that in the Fire Fields.

(If you’ve the Trait called Evasive Arcana (which you should pick as soon as you hit level 60) from the Arcane-Traitline, you would be able to dodge while in Earth Attunement and create an additional Blast Finisher.)

After this rotation (which takes a bit of practice, but not a lot) a lot is on Cooldown. The Auto Attack in Air Attunement is the strongest, followed by the one in Fire (if you’re close to your target).

Trait-wise, Arcana is usually a wonderful line to have points in, since it reduces the cooldown of your attunements. If you’ve trouble surviving, pick defensive traits, such as III in Arcane, or spend your traitpoints in Water or Earth, which passively gives you defensive stats.

It’s muddy as heck because they’ve made a lot of possible combinations for the classes to do a rather wide set of roles, with very few exceptions (control ele doesn’t quite exist, tank thief doesn’t quite exist etc).

However, to determine what a class is ‘meant’ for, you’ll need to look at the power multipliers on their non-autoattacks; the power multipliers on their autoattacks; the type, range and duration of conditions they inflict; the type, range and duration of boons they grant; bouncing, cleave, piercing, PBAoE, ground-targeted AoE and target-centred AoE nature of their attacks and their ranges; the class unique mechanic (Steal for Thief, Burst for Warriors, Death Shroud for Necros etc); the useful traits in the trees (some are useless); what stats those traits boost.

It’s very complicated and extremely difficult to explain within 10,000 words, so I’ll save the explanation and skip to the results:

Warriors are meant for melee cleave damage and/or control, and do best with Soldier’s or Berserker.
Mesmers are meant for high single target damage and boon removal, and do best with Assassin’s or Rampager.
Rangers are meant for condition/direct damage hybrid builds or very long range direct damage (specialised function – this build will end up useless outside those specific scenarios). The earlier ones do best with Carrion/Rampager, the latter one requires Berserker.
Guardians are meant for tanking, AoE healing and PBAoE damage. They do best with Sentinel and Cleric gear.
Elementalists are meant for boon stacking or AoE damage. They are also the most resistant class to condition damage by a very wide margin, but one of the most vulnerable to direct damage. They do best with Celestial.
Thieves are meant for burst direct damage and/or control and/or boon removal. They do best with Berserker gear.
Necros are meant for AoE conditioning and tanking. They do best with Rabid or Dire gear.
Engineers are meant for covering the gaps in parties, regardless of where the gap arises – they’re the best at doing everything at once, but don’t match any of the other 7 in any specific area. Whatever gear they use depends on what you’re speccing them to do; Celestial is viable, but not necessarily ideal.

The problem arises that the lines are so blurred as builds vary widely… the above addresses it from a ‘maximum potential’ point of view. Most builds run at about 70-85% potential of the class, which is already good enough such that players often get the false impression a class is good at something that it actually isn’t very good at (ie. Power necros are much weaker than power specced mesmers for the 1v1 direct damage scenario and burst-type mesmers are much weaker than condition specced Necros for AoE conditioning applications), and player skill gaps worsen this discrepancy (a problem of special mention with Rangers, where the vast majority run with <60% class viability giving the false impression that the class is plain bad).

For the casual player you can basically play whatever class fits your style the most, then spec it to whatever you want your character to do. The game is easy enough that even 70% viability already makes all open world content a cakewalk (I generally upgrade gear every 15 levels and can still complete most Group Events alone while 15-undergeared), and dungeons don’t generally pose much of an issue with competent party members. Trying to get close to ‘optimised builds’ per class only really reaps significant benefits in carrying 4 useless teammates through a dungeon (usually, even 3 competent players already means normal builds work well), attempting to fight a 60 man zerg with 20 people, or trying PvP group tournaments.

Got cut off by character limit.

To apply the above to your case, you’ll need to know exactly what you want to do in the game if you want a max-viability build. The Fresh Air type builds are generally the most viable for elementalist D/D sets now by a far margin (~85% viability overall for the Ele class), but when playing it you have to remember that your melee autoattack has a much greater range than all normal melee autoattacks. It not only cleaves, but its range is 300, not 130. Failure to make use of the additional range advantage will definitely make it inferior to an equivalent warrior build in most circumstances. In stacking scenarios, you’re generally going to be flat-out inferior to warriors because your additional range has no benefit. In PvP, open world, boss kiting etc scenarios you have the advantage of being able to deal melee level multiplier autoattacks while your targets cannot retaliate using melee because of the range gap.

The other attunements are situational ways to adapt to things that happen – your mainstay is Air attunement, in that build.

But it’s basically a PBAoE type build with limited burst. If you want greater damage in a short time a thief would be better, if you want greater survivability and/or greater damage with shorter range a warrior would be better.

Thieves are less survivable than Elementalists by a far margin in PvE content – Elementalists have far more damage mitigation, projectile repulsion etc skills, and cleanse conditions without difficulty; thieves only have stealth, which mobs will AoE through anyway, very low healing so you don’t have a second chance if you screw up, no invulnerable period for you to thin out the numbers of very large mobs, etc. They are more survivable in PvP content because the mechanics elementalists use are easily mitigated by better players, whereas invisible players are basically impossible to attack if your skillset does not include any AoE or PBAoE skills.

This might be quite a bit overwhelming. All in all, pick the profession that you enjoy playing the most. No matter what build you choose to use @ level 80, the things that made you pick the profession will still be there. (Unless you manage to pick a really boring build, but you’ll figure that out)

Thank you Hayashi, I think you understood what I was trying to ask the best. I think I will stick with Elementalist – even though I don’t really like the “general” description of it (more so because I dislike range than anything), I still don’t think anything can come quite as close for me to playing D/D in terms of how fun it is.

Dodosaur.6324:

I don’t really like the “general” description of it (more so because I dislike range than anything), I still don’t think anything can come quite as close for me to playing D/D in terms of how fun it is.

You’re basically always in Melee while wielding daggers.

There are still certain parts in the game that forces every profession to wield a ranged weapon, but they are few and far between.

Phadde.7362:

Dodosaur.6324:

I don’t really like the “general” description of it (more so because I dislike range than anything), I still don’t think anything can come quite as close for me to playing D/D in terms of how fun it is.

You’re basically always in Melee while wielding daggers.

There are still certain parts in the game that forces every profession to wield a ranged weapon, but they are few and far between.

Actually there isn’t one in PvE. The closest to doing this is the Fire Elemental, but there is actually a spot to the west of the elemental outside its hitbox where you can hit it with melee attacks but not take any burn damage. If you stand there you’ll see particle effects appear on a particular spot. Melee that spot and you’ll see damage numbers fly. You DO have to spam 1 though, since the game doesn’t recognise that you’re hitting a valid target given that you’re technically not in range.

WvW is a different ballgame together – when defending a keep against a zerg you don’t exactly want to jump off the wall to melee them.

For all other bosses and dungeons, they’re meleeable, though the Molten Boss Fractal is difficult. Generally it’s always a risk vs reward thing, where potential damage is always highest in melee due to multiplier per second on attacks, but you also take a higher risk of taking damage. People differ as to where they decide that the benefit is no longer the risk.

Of course, I realize I can’t melee myself through all the content no matter what class I am. Even Warriors need to use their ranged options. However that doesn’t mean most Warriors won’t or shouldn’t mainly use melee weapons. I’m only speaking about the “fun” factor when I say I prefer melee.

Engineers aren’t only a ranged class! Grab pistol and shield as weapons and the toolkit and bomb kit skills for some great melee options. I love using toolkit with my engi, best pure damage output I’ve got, and the toolkit/bombkit combo is perfect for underwater battles. Add compatible traits and armor with +power stats and you can wade right in with the rest.

Also, the engi “rifle” is actually a more short to mid-ranged weapon. We don’t have nearly the range with it that a warrior does.

Katlyntje.7962:

Engineers aren’t only a ranged class! Grab pistol and shield as weapons and the toolkit and bomb kit skills for some great melee options. I love using toolkit with my engi, best pure damage output I’ve got, and the toolkit/bombkit combo is perfect for underwater battles. Add compatible traits and armor with +power stats and you can wade right in with the rest.

Also, the engi “rifle” is actually a more short to mid-ranged weapon. We don’t have nearly the range with it that a warrior does.

Tell me more! I actually really like the concept of an Engineer, but as I’ve stated many times previously, I prefer melee (in my opinion the semi-action system in Guild Wars 2 is great, but then they had to go and make ranged targeted). Which kits do you use? What combos?

Dodosaur.6324:

Tell me more! I actually really like the concept of an Engineer, but as I’ve stated many times previously, I prefer melee (in my opinion the semi-action system in Guild Wars 2 is great, but then they had to go and make ranged targeted). Which kits do you use? What combos?

The closest the Engineer comes to Melee is continuously placing bombs at peoples feet and melting them with a Flamethrower.
Sure, there is a toolkit where you can whack people with a wrench and a crowbar, and you can Rocket-Kick and Rocket-Punch people (PBR), but you rarely use those.

Very interesting profession though. But you might miss out on that kinetic feel, like smacking someone with a (lightning)hammer, or even a Dragons Claw.

Hayashi.3416:

Actually there isn’t one in PvE. The closest to doing this is the Fire Elemental…

Well, you’re not going to have a jolly good time wielding D/D throughout the entire Harpy Fractal, i.e.

maybe I can help you with my opinion of the Flamethrower /engi. The following words may not be the general opinion, the most objective, and so on; they are what I think.

- FT (flamethrower) is just a “cool” toy. While alone, you can play with it, but in a dungeon party / pvp / WvW / something serious, it’s not recommended because the damage output is much too low.

- keep in mind that with the engineer profession, you have a lot of toys just like the FT: They are cool / funny / and so on, but when serious DPS is needed you will need to have the right gear + the right spec, which may prove to be less fun (lob grenades which I find boring or plant bombs… which I find silly).

- if roaming in WvW is what you think you want, engi is ok. Depending on your server it may be good or bad. Blobs & hammers / small parties / duo-trio of thieves, etc – see the p/s or p/p condi builds.

- as others have said, it’s a versatile profession, and it will not put out the max dps; just like in real life I think, there is always a trade. There are not many people playing engineers. Why do you think that is? (No, it’s not a “hard profession to master”, IMO.)

- check the engi forums, for a clearer picture of what the profession is and what it lacks. IMO it lacks a lot of things, still, it’s the only one that feels (closest to) right for me.

Good luck.

rogerwilko.6895:

- FT (flamethrower) is just a “cool” toy. While alone, you can play with it, but in a dungeon party / pvp / WvW / something serious, it’s not recommended because the damage output is much too low.

Actually, if you’re simply running in PUGs, or with fairly casual Guildmembers, the FT/EG Build is the most successful one for me so far. I also main a Warrior, an Elementalist and a Guardian, but the amazing support that the build provides is really good at keeping the run smooth.

I think that the community in general are a bit blinded by a current DPS output, rather than the overall success of a dungeon-run. The difference between a boring (meta) Grenade-build and a FT dps is fair, if one consider that whenever someone is downed in your party, your overall DPS will shrink far more. And, you’ll provide your partymembers with a lot of breathing-room which allows them to focus less on their defense. And, it’s an absolutely amazing build to play, and provides a stress-free environment.

However, if you run higher fractals, or with guildies that knows what they’re doing, I generally bring something else.

… And I think the Engineer is very likely to be the hardest profession to master. There are of course easy builds that are easy to master, but the profession as a whole isn’t. (I’ve played the Elementalist for about 2 years now, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to the difficulty of the Ele)

Made a tank/healer engi today just for fun.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqyWnpynF17IyoCdWoHSogpWfeIXtVaB-jgCB4hBhgAgKAJJtIas9CFRjVNjIqWnEzuDwaWa1eOxSBcxYA-e

2225 damage per second to up to 5 targets (if you consider the max AoE target limit, it can hit 11125 damage per second total – which isn’t that much lower than the full zerk warr’s 14058 damage per second from Cleaving with 4686 damage per second per target), 690 heal per second to up to 5 allies, 3233 toughness. While obviously you wouldn’t want to bring this for dungeons with only one boss to fight, this DOES allow for very high relative performance on uncrittable objects and swarms of mobs. I.e., this is good for CoEp1 and TA, but kind of useless on CoFp1. While this will also necessarily be quite useless in roaming WvW, this would be rather good in the heart of a zerg, especially for defensive purposes.

To level, kite massive numbers of mobs together and just drop bombs nonstop. You can’t die with heal and toughness at such an insane number, and the more mobs you can lure, the better your final killrate will be.