Guild Wars 2

There may not be a Holy Trinity, but there sure as hell is a NEED for dedicated TANKS.

The only difference in this game is that for HEALING, you’re on your own. If you’re a full DPS glass-cannon type, you better have a full-on Support/Healer in your group.

To say there is no Holy Trinity is slightly misleading – you STILL need Tanks, Healing and DPS – the only difference in GW2 is that everyone needs to assist with Healing and DPSing and they can’t just stack one type of role and expect to succeed.

Aonivar.6948:

-Snip.-

I agree with you whole-heartedly – spot-on, brother! It’s not that we don’t have the skills to survive. Oh, we’ve got them. But a lot of good they are when they’re as useless as they are, as anything they fix is back to square one almost an instant later.

With condition removal – why not give a short window of immunity to whatever condition(s) was/were removed?

Too as well, you’re exactly right about why it doesn’t feel as though there’s as much team coercion as other games, and I hadn’t noticed the exact reason why I myself felt as though I was the only one looking out for anyone else (Being used to playing healer-classes and/or tactical DPS classes with horrendous cooldowns but great punch). Nobody has control of what’s going on. It’s nice to say, “Focus fire on this,” but sometimes, it’s just impossible with everybody being the target. The only way I can help someone is to break out all my DPS cooldowns and try to grab the mob’s attention, force a CC effect onto them so they’ll think of me as a better threat. And then I’m stuck with the problem that nobody’s getting my back – they’re all too scared and worried, rightfully so, that if they don’t focus on themselves for longer than a second, they’re going down – and even when they are focusing on themselves – their tickets aren’t meant for a higher place. In fact, they’re going to exact same spot as their pride – down.

Instances are horrible, its not even fun to play it. Wish healer and tank was in the game.

Kill or be killed rly suck.. and getting smashed to the ground atleast 50 times by silver mobs are annoying as hell and kills all the fun.

Oh well atleast i got WvW to play :p

Netherscourge.1862:

There may not be a Holy Trinity, but there sure as hell is a NEED for dedicated TANKS.

The only difference in this game is that for HEALING, you’re on your own. If you’re a full DPS glass-cannon type, you better have a full-on Support/Healer in your group.

To say there is no Holy Trinity is slightly misleading – you STILL need Tanks, Healing and DPS – the only difference in GW2 is that everyone needs to assist with Healing and DPSing and they can’t just stack one type of role and expect to succeed.

It may well be that everybody has to lend a hand – but they can’t. They’re too focused on trying to keep themselves alive for long enough to worry about healing anybody else. Not to mention the fact that in all honesty.. any heals you can dole out for a fellow party member is next to worthless when put into perspective of what you’re up against. You’re much better off saving it for yourself and using it to quickly patch up a little when you get a few seconds’ break from the action.

Our guild group ran AC story mode yesterday (no vent). Two of us were new to the dungeon and three had been there, one was lvl 80 and two were above lvl 40. We got slaughtered… too many “red circles” on the ground (and the red is very hard to see) the circles are too large to get out of in time once you use up your two dodge rolls… etc – like the others have mentioned. It’s not that I want a zerg-fest, but I don’t want to have to respawn 10 times just to get down a pack of three trash mobs. Trash should not be able to one-shot you (unless you can one-shot them back, after all they are the same lvl as you). Some of the trash (especially rangers) feels overtuned. Trash should be beatable one-on-one or at most two-on-one (three trash mobs vs 5 players), but we had to whittle them away one, wipe, by one, wipe. The bosses were fine – didn’t mind respawn running multiple times on them as it was apparent that their mechanics could be learned and overcome… The trash just felt demoralizing and frustrating and much too boss-like.

Perhaps if the devs made sure that only ONE ranger could spawn in a pull group, it would be ok, but 2-3 rangers each of which can one-shot you before you even get off a single spell? It’s just too much dying to be fun. At this difficulty level, it felt more like raid progression (without the corresponding lockout) than the first dungeon in the game…

I am an adult and understand that I don’t have to play a part of the game if I don’t want to. Dungeon-crawling is one of my favorite parts of the MMO experience, so I really want to be able to have fun doing it. My opinion is that something needs to change to make this first dungeon experience fun.

I think they’re awesome fun. They are tuned to reward a cooperative/organized group. Don’t think I’d care to try it without VOIP.

To Juulz: AC story is actually quite easy. I’m not trying to sound rude, but you are wrong about circle size. One roll will take you out of any circle, so long as you don’t try to roll from one side out the far side. Its a fact, not my opinion. Also, yes, rangers are a pain, so focus them, use blinds/walls and watch for circles like your life depends on it. If you have two people who hadn’t done it before, its not surprising that it didn’t go incredibly well. As has been repeated over and over in this thread, almost no pug with a first timer ( I got my group wiped multiple times my first run) is able to run a dungeon effeciently. It is too different from past experiences. I think people in general need to chill out, slow down, and try to figure instances and mechanic’s out instead of shouting: “MY FIRST RUN WAS MISERABLE, MOBS TOO HARD, MECHANIC’S BLOW, MAKE IT EASIER.”

It’s certainly not as brain dead as the WoW dungeons were, for sure. I actually had fun with it. I can see how it can be truly frustrating if everyone is doing the run for the first time, but I did AC story (which was a bit of a challenge), AC explorable (where I wound up gettingkitten twice), and CM story (which was hella easy).

It’s really not so bad. Be open to switching your utilities around. I use dual maces and a hammer as a warrior, so I focus on preventing enemies from attacking while beating them to death. It ultimately comes down to having everyone focus down the same targets, or having one or two people CC dangerous enemies while the main target is being brought down. Knowing when to rez and when not to and stuff like that. I can see how it’d be really punishing if you’re doing it blind, but I don’t think it’s so bad as to not be fun.

Also, I’m not sure I’d describe it as hard. It’s certainly punishing about mistakes, but I don’t think that’s the same as difficult.

I think the major problem in this thread is that people aren’t realizing that Explorable mode dungeons are the highest level and hardest content in the game. They are supposed to be equivalent to the difficulty of Hard-mode 25 man raids in WoW. I’m surprised that anyone at all has been able to clear them since the game hasn’t even been out a month yet. Plus they will only get easier.

If you are doing them at any level below 70 then you are missing at least 1 grandmaster trait which that alone can make a big difference. If you are not in full orange gear that exactly matches your level then your stats are not scaled to the highest they could be so you aren’t properly geared yet. People are still experimenting with builds. I doubt even half of the people trying an explorable dungeon even change their utilities to match the challenges of each encounter, and I bet even less then half of those people are changing their major traits to match the encounters, which also would make a difference.

I think it is kind of absurd to be talking about something being too difficult when most people don’t even know how to play the game yet. Explorable modes are supposed to take lots of coordination and skill. If you want to pug you should be doing story mode.

They made a dungeon mode for people who aren’t as skilled, it’s called story mode, and it lets you see the story in a more relaxed easily pugable way. If you want to do the hard mode then please don’t complain that it is hard.

Aih.6892:

I’m happy to hear that dedicated and experienced players who have a trained and regular group are finding some challenge and fun in the dungeons.
BUT :
You all must remember that GW2 is supposed to be for every kind of players, not only very good raid specialists. Meaning that everykind of people should be able to get some fun in game.
While the challenging dungeons are great for some, i think that the other ones, the casual players, which represent in fact the major part of the population of a popular game such as GW2, should have access to some adapted content too.
Yes maybe we are dumb, slow, losers or whatever you think, but we are customers as much as you.
So concretly, keep the dungeons as they are for the ones who like it and can dedicate so much time and skill to it, but add an easier mode for casual players, with shorter sessions adapted to family life, with of course less reward etc…
WHY NOT GIVING SOME CONTENT TO EVERY KIND OF PLAYERS ? After all the dungeons are already here, it shouldn’t be that hard to add some easier modes, and yes some harder modes too if there are enough people enjoying it.

This is the kind of thinking that is practiced with kids playing sports in this day. You came out and participated and WHAM!!! we have a trophy for you at the end of the season for you!!!

Hogwash! As a child when i played sports if you didn’t play on a winning team. NO TROPHY FOR YOU! I played on some teams that were winners, and i played on some teams where we lost. Having done this i learned to win, and to lose.

What you must remember is you are entitled to absolutely jack nothing in this life. I for one am tired of hearing people that describe themselves as casual( mainly touted to be the MAJORITY…… so what, i say.) moaning about how it is unfair that they are unable to complete some form of challenge in a MMO game. In this game it is the dungeons, they are hard. And they very well should be.

It is this state of mind that has lead to the nerfing, and just plain dumbing down of the majority of all games of this kind that i have played. I’ve run into content in MMO’s i was not able to complete, that vary in reasons, and i either decided to fix whatever it was making me unable to complete the challenge or i moved on deciding it was not something i could get done.

Achieving goals that are out of reach for some, or most, is a MOTIVATOR for some people, such as myself. As my opinion is worth as much as yours (and be aware i am aware my opinion means nothing to 99.99% of everyone else out there) i say no, you cant have a free pass because your special, and need lovin because you find no enjoyment in running the dungeons in GW2.

I like the fact that this part of the content of this game is tough. My family life allows me to play these dungeons and complete them. I own a business, have 2 sons, 1 irrational female partner and a whole passel of house plants that want my attention every day, day in and day out.

So again, i for one think, if you want to do the dungeons, try harder, assemble a group that is willing to try harder with you and do what it takes to get it done.

Hopefully folks spending their time on these forums detailing how it is not fair there is no easy mode for you to play goes in one dev ear and out the other. As many in this thread have said, the lewts are dookie at any rate, and are not the motivation to get in there and get it done in the first place. Its called a challenge!!! Try challenging yourself, you might dig it.

Also, what i am saying here is not addressed to you personally, rather it is addressed to the frame of mind that wants this type of content( your post is just a very good example). Be assured they will give it to you at one point or another, because if you are the type that will vote with your wallet you can guarantee this company wants your cash and will remedy your woes!

The whole fact that this game just rolled out and already people want EASIER CONTENT PLEASE!!!!! compels me to come here and say to the Dev’s i think it should not be so. At the least not right off.

Aonivar.6948:

One last point to make. It may seem strange. But without the holy trinity set-up I actually feel less of a group with other people than normal. I suppose it’s because of a lack of control though, if I have mobs going after me, I cannot trust a tank to pull them off me, because there is no tank and nobody can taunt. If I take damage, I can’t trust the healer to heal me, because there is no healer and group healing isn’t all that good. The only thing I can do is trust my own skills.

I feel exactly the opposite after Caudecus’ Manor. We did story mode (easier, I grant you) with three thieves, a necro and an ele. Not what you’d call the typical optimal setup. I was the ele, and I do have some toughness, vit and healing on my gear so I wasn’t super squish…however there were some snipers in there that kept oneshotting me after my two defensive utilities were blown and my endurance was up. They reeeeally seemed to like me, too.

Then our group did a couple of things. I switched to focus offhand instead of dual daggers (Swirling Aura destroys projectiles) and my thief buddies started laying down a lot of blinds on the ranged mobs.

The experience was night and day. It just takes a little communication. Some of us were guildmates on mumble, but not all. Before we start I tell my teammates my focus (I support with boons/good condition removal/spot heals, so they learn to run toward me if they get in trouble), they tell me their focus, and we go from there, adjusting slightly as needed. My spouse’s thief brings a group healing utility (Shadow’s Refuge) to help out with that, and it’s been clutch more than once.

I’m not saying explorable modes aren’t hella hard. I have an RL friend who’s a good player who said AC explorable, the first one he tried, was the hardest thing he’s done in a video game. I’m just saying a lot of people are ignoring key gamechangers like protection, weakness, blind, projectile blocks/reflections and wondering why they can’t complete content.

Not to mention you really have to look out for those red icons on your action bar. Removing conditions is important. Sometimes I was left unable to remove them due to setting up my utility bar differently. Always make sure you have at least one ability somewhere to help remove conditions off yourself at least.

Braize.4560:

Ok fanbois, you are totally missing everything. 100% whooooosh over your head.

Nobody is saying that they want to tear through dungeons, nobody is saying that they want easy mode, nobody is saying they want ubar epicz in a 10 minute dungeon.

The fact is, dungeons are terrible. GW2 is a lot more PvE base than what it should be in the first place. So to throw in dungeons where all you do is kite and CC non stop or you get one shot and wipe, is not fun in any way.

Another fact. People are not going to spend 2-3 hours in a place that gives you trash. There is no reward at all for going in there, so don’t bother wasting your time.

I am willing to guess that 90% of the people here who are actually defending this PvE garbage have never actually set foot in there. They are just like “oh this isnt WoW, L2P, use skillz, etc.” In no game out there does every trash mob one shot a tank, and there is a reason for that. Challenge the player yes, but make instances where all you do is kite and CC? Sorry, no thanks. It’s not skill, it’s not challenging, it’s straight up boring.

TL;DR Bottom line is, PvE is not FUN at all. And the rewards for taking the time to do it are non existent.

The only fact i can find in your post is that you need to consult a dictionary on the definition of the word FACT. And go ahead and try not to gloss over the idea that people are indeed saying…

" they want easy mode, they want ubar epicz in a 10 minute dungeon. "

Some may be being obtuse about it, but if you wanna go ahead and read in between the lines i think most will agree that this is exactly what many people are saying. Whether or not you cop that that is up to you.

Reeddog.9132:

The only fact i can find in your post is that you need to consult a dictionary on the definition of the word FACT. And go ahead and try not to gloss over the idea that people are indeed saying…

" they want easy mode, they want ubar epicz in a 10 minute dungeon. "

Some may be being obtuse about it, but if you wanna go ahead and read in between the lines i think most will agree that this is exactly what many people are saying. Whether or not you cop that that is up to you.

That’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion as well. But the average gamer is not going to spend that kind of time and silver just to be one shot by trash and receive no reward for it in any MMOG. And that my friend, is a straight up fact. I can list the many failed MMOG’s due to that simple concept, but I’m sure we all know what they are already. Granted most of those games were subscription based whereas this is not, but the concept remains.

Then again, people said that FFXIV was fine too /shrug

Okay i’m coming from Aion and from The GW1 past. Im not a WoW player. Aion is a Korean Grind game. Where everything is HARD that sposta be hard just rolls. But the Dungeons in GW2 are Difficult … They need Work and to be geared to a player base. As they are right now Many people hate them and want to have nothing to do with them. It does seem like a joke when you’re level is scaled down to a point where you can do a instance. But then after going in and getting rolled by one shot and the team wipes.. or dying over and over again… its not fun . Many Guild mates and players that I’ve talked to think there needs to be a balance to this. Yes you can make it hard.. but don’t do it to the point where we take 6K damage and we only have 4k.

We want a Fun Dungeon or experience.. not one where everyone dreads it and wants to rage quit or not do them as a whole.

(to note, yes we have tried different builds, dodging,quick weapon switches and all the things that people say to try …. but the end result is the same)

Thanks

I’ve only run AC story with a PUG. I am no mastermind of raiding-style gaming and speccing, and I did fine. Died probably five times, especially until we got coordinated, but fine. Yes, mobs are stupidly steroided up. Yes, the pulls are weird. But basically, you need to strategize and coordinate like you do with any team. I agree that it does feel more like everyone for him- or herself than the traditional heal/tank/dps model. But I still healed up others, knocked mobs off them, and served mainly as a condition-applier. Know your strengths, play to them decently enough, and it’s doable. It was worth it to me to see the story through. If explore mode is harder with low rewards, I don’t think that would make sense for me, and I’m glad I got story mode as a sampling. But I do understand the point of making very challenging content for skill players who enjoy that. From my brief taste, the dungeons are not simply full of hard-mode mobs, but are essentially tactical team puzzles.

We ran story mode AC with our guild tonight. This was the second time through it, and we blew through it in about 35 minutes. I don’t know if Anet toned it down or what? But anyway, wasn’t too difficult in my books. We were just careful to do the pulls and such. Last boss was probably the most difficult, but even that wasn’t too bad. I quite enjoyed it. I love the integration of the traps in the dungeon, it gives it a nice touch. Great fun overall – I would say people need to give things some time if they’re having difficulty, it’s a pretty new game to be freaking out so soon.

Utena.8052:

Okay i’m coming from Aion and from The GW1 past. Im not a WoW player. Aion is a Korean Grind game. Where everything is HARD that sposta be hard just rolls. But the Dungeons in GW2 are Difficult … They need Work and to be geared to a player base. As they are right now Many people hate them and want to have nothing to do with them. It does seem like a joke when you’re level is scaled down to a point where you can do a instance. But then after going in and getting rolled by one shot and the team wipes.. or dying over and over again… its not fun . Many Guild mates and players that I’ve talked to think there needs to be a balance to this. Yes you can make it hard.. but don’t do it to the point where we take 6K damage and we only have 4k.

We want a Fun Dungeon or experience.. not one where everyone dreads it and wants to rage quit or not do them as a whole.

(to note, yes we have tried different builds, dodging,quick weapon switches and all the things that people say to try …. but the end result is the same)

Thanks

Look, the fact that there’s no consensus on dungeons shows that they aren’t inherently broken. If you can’t do them, that’s fine. They aren’t for everyone. But admit THAT, don’t put it on the game.

So many good replies already. I’ll just add that the main problem is that players have become lazy because they’ve forgotten what challenging content was like. Few games provide a real challenge to players anymore. Lazy, forgiving mechanics have dulled our skills. Just the fact that the term “trash” mob is being used, underlines the point. Other games have trash mobs, which are meant to be cleared on autopilot. They’re just filler between the actual fights. In this game, you’re supposed to approach every encounter carefully. If you think of them as trash, get used to being facerolled.

And this has nothing to do with roles. It has to do with skill, cooperation and communication.

I will agree with the loot though. For this kind of challenging content, the rewards ARE NOT commensurate with the effort.

Ok i totally agree with the Thread.

Taking away the trinity was an brilliant idea, and it would work, BUT :

1,Mobs have no body blocking and can stack up inside eachother, or atleatkittenclose. That aside, even melee palyers swarm them, and even effects spam on them. Basically i cant even see the mobs itself. How are we supposed to watch for “attack animations” ???

2, Making a dungeon hard is totally fine by me, i actually enjoyed the dungeons. With all the traps they made the feeling of a D&D adventure…a bit. BUT making the mobs 2 hit you, leaving you no place for mistakes all the time is not really hard, its irritating.
It feels like the game is cheating. When i palyed Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and had like 180 Arc Angels and rolled ower the map, and the enemy just had 1 base, and suddenly rushed out with 10000 titants i was like : WTf nice cheat to be hard.

Its not hard, its the same as in Heroes….a bit lame boost for the enemy to seem like hard.

3, THe dodge attacks is fine idea, trough i must admit, rolling in and out every 4-5sec is not really my idea of a battle. Its ok in real battle you step closer and away all the time, but this is not seriously “step closer and away”. We keep tiger jumping all araund all the time. Looks funny to me.
That aside, its ok you dodge some melee attacks and some aoe skills, but what you basically do with ranged nukes and skills. The most of them hit me anyway even if i dodge them. The animation lands behind me miles away still i get the dmg mostly…

4,Pets are 90% dead in dungeons, they really need to be made resistant to Aoe effects, ot atleast take reduced dmg from them.
OR as Anet devs are smart, make the pets more inteligent. Make them dodge same way as palyers do. They see an aoe coming they run back.

-So personally i think the new concept of dungeos is like a dream. BUT they seriously need to be fine tuned.
I hope the devs dont get dissapointed in the feedbacks, and keep to the tipical Fantasy rpg mindsetup.
But adjust on the body blocking for palyers and a bit more tactical thinking for the mobs instead of 2 hitting players.

Dungeons are also good for 1 thing. Make you realize what class you actually want to play. After rolling warrior i realized i am more of a range tipe, now i cant decide play Nekro or Ele. Not sure witch is how in Dungeons, but i guess i start with Ele.

I’m all for a challenge but these dungeons are to much. I know that chars have been made so they are more independent, however there is not enough heals to cope, also the recharge times on the skills are shockingly high and on top of all this you have to worry about you’re armor and the money that it costs to fix it. I have been waiting on this game for years and the biggest thing I was looking forward to was the dungeons but they are overly hard, so much so that they are not enjoyable to play but just down rite frustrating.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the game but this needs to be sorted.

ROMP.9403:

GW2 have taken away the meaning of the holy trinity. This is something great as they move out of the paradigm of a conventional MMO.

This also means that everyone should build their character in a way so as to not be a bloody glass canon. Everyone must be responsible on how to self heal, dish out dps, tank and CC.

You must forget about that healer in the pocket as you yourself have to heal yourself. Its kind of you have to learn how to be the holy trinity. Always remember, there are no agro management in GW2, just CC and group synergy is the key.

Heres a few pointers for instance crawling:
1) Learn to roll and dodge
2) Learn the animation of bosses and mobs
3) Learn all your utilities
4) Learn to SWAP weapons
5) DON’T EVER KEYBOARD TURN

Cheers and happy dungeon crawling.

Did you read the OPs post? He is using defense skills and dodging, ccing. There is a problem with the AI going tunnel vision on you and ranged mobs are murder.

Dungeons require mastery of the basics from every player on the team. Everyone should have a skill to save themselves, as well as a teammate.

Some tips to make your dungeon crawling life easier (I’ve completed many AC, CM, TA explore runs so far)

1. Get some Toughness and Vitality – The only thing that can make your life impossible is getting 1 shot. If you can survive a hit or two, you’re in the game. More? You’re gonna carry.

2. Bring combo fields – These can literally double your effectiveness. That fire skill doing nice damage? Okay, now use a leap finisher and apply AoE burning. Water field? AoE healing. Light Field? AoE condition removal. Bring as many as you can, so your teammates can take advantage.

3. USE your teammate’s combo fields. /wiki combo to figure out the EXTREMELY powerful stacks you can get using these. Ever wonder how you managed to do double dmg on a boss? Probably had to do with combo fields. When you learn these, you’re going to love this game.

4. Save up your resources and CD’s for when you need them. Always have a snare/blind/daze/whatever your class has ready. This will save lives. You’ll also start to discern between what needs to be dodged, and what you just dodge because you don’t know better.

5. When you’ve used all your endurace, run away! Theres no penalty for hiding, do it, and save yourself a lot of repair money.

Honestly, with the importance of levels and gear somewhat diminished (still helps though) it’s absolutely clear how much skill matters in this part of the game. I think it’s an excellent primer for tournament-level PvP.

What gets me is the difficulty whiplash. Compare the story modes of the first two dungeons.

AC: ghosts, including ones who pop out of the ground for surprise. Mostly ranged, almost entirely with access to strong AoE and knockback. Tight spaces. Final boss… not sure how you’re supposed to do it as a melee, since he one or two-shots with his attacks and aggro is partially proximity-based.

CM: Generally open areas. Mostly melee enemies. No boss will gib you with a look.

So let’s see the player experiences in these dungeons. In CM the first boss is the only real threat (which I think is a shame, I like the ranger and elementalist in AC) but it’s a control thing rather than a “you got to close for half a second” thing. If you get aggro from someone you know because they turn and run at you, giving you time to evade. There’s room to avoid the enemies and pick your direction of attack.

In AC most guys are ranged so your first hint of aggro will not be enemy movement but rather enemy rotation (much harder to spot), and then they hit you. Spike traps land without warning and hit with a bleed, so if you don’t immediately have a cleanse/heal you wind up walking dead even if you survived the hit. Necros have a large poison AoE, and tend to be in spawns in particularly narrow rooms. It’s hard to dodge out of the red circle if it’s actually three of them lined up in a hallway, and then you get feared right back into it. Half the guys have a knockback, so if you do need to get close (or happen to do so while evading) you’re going to be punted right back into the red. Every pull needs to be handled with precision because there’s no middle-ground between full health and death. And then there’s the last boss’s hits and the fact that the Lovers start their fight dropping a large duststorm right on the closest guy, doing massive damage if they don’t dodge the instant things start.

There’s a major difference in the difficulty of these two dungeons, and the easy one comes second. CM is a great intro to dungeons; it’s short, forgiving, and can get you used to party combat and tactics. Too bad it isn’t the intro dungeon.

I also noticed that CM is a lot more easier that AC.
To be honest I don’t mind the difficulty of the dungeons right now (consider I’ve only done AC and CM for now)
What I find difficult are the general drops you get from the chests (I have only seen one decent green drop in over 10 runs the rest being blue stuff and not even one gold). But I can bare with lame drops because I always considered myself unlucky at drops in any game I played so far.
The thing that is most frustrating to me is the amount of tokens you need for the weapons. I’m a thief and seriously 300 tokens for a dagger or a pistol is too much, just too much.
I like to go D/D in PvE and P/P in WvW that would take 1200 tokens, which means 48 dungeon runs, that’s just too much. And that’s just for one dungeon and only to get the weapons, i won’t even start with tokens needed for armor and other weapons….
I think dual wielding weapons need to cost a bit less than say, 2H Weapons. It’s ridiculous that the prices stay the same. If I roll a warrior and play Geartsword and Longbow I’ll only need to run the dungeon 24 times, that’s just not nice.

I say make 1Handed weapons (and shields) half the current price (“thinks about other classes here as well” since Thief is not the only class that can dual wield).

People that use 2H weapons might not like this, but I think it’s just common sense.

3 friends and I were able to run story AC. we were fine with everything except the fire traps until we realized we could destroy the gargoyles, took about 8 wipes to get a fluid system going with the 2 lovers (use the boulders! they are your friends also, when the NPCs go down, get 1 person to get them back up), and Adelburn was just a monster that took about 5 wipes to get him down (watch out for the red circles, and don’t dodge roll into them and pop a protective shield, they don’t work for ground AoE). overall, it’s not bad once you can handle it, but after doing it with 4, it just seems easier with 5 if you have a good group.

i’m scratching my head wondering how people some people say the dungeons are impossible and others have the first 2 dungeons on farm.

they’ve (anet) said that dungeons were intended to be high-end pve content that wasn’t for everyone. some people may need more practice or may never be good enough (myself included).

I will try to be as concise as possible to accurately describe just how bad off GW2 is in terms of dungeon play. In short there is no dungeon play in this game. There are people claiming that the level 35 AC explorable mode is end game content. That it is meant to be this frustrating and morally unrewarding by design. For all intents and purposes if this is true GW2 does not have any kind of dungeon play for most people in the game.

This can be easily witnessed….AC now has like 1/4 to1/5 the people there LFG as a week ago. I am a die hard dungeon crawler coop lover…so I force myself to attempt it in some crazy attempt to salvage something from this game to make my 60$+10$ in the store last at LEAST one month. But if the ONLY thing arena net is capable of providing is a few solo leveling sandboxes I will have to pass on this game. Any gaming company can make open zones and sprinke them with mobs to kill to level up. That is the easy part, creating engaging, BALANCED, fun, coop areas like dungeons are where the draw is for many people playing MMOs. It is also more difficult to do.

But that does not mean you don’t even try to do this…..for me this game is a shell without any substance. The holy trinity has been removed….ok so thats like removing the center from a basketball game, or a catcher from baseball game. The holy trinity was a part of strategy and planning, and utilizing team work. Its what the internet allows us to do in games now..work together, SUPPORT and help each other to overcome obstacles. The decision has been made that this is now fun, and it must be radically changed. Ok, but what has it been replaced with?

The silver mobs in dungeons hit too hard, take too many hits to kill…and feel like boss mobs. They make your skills feel absolutely worthless. Having a 2 second stun on a 45 min timer is useless….it will do diddly squat against 3 or more mobs in dungeons. You might stun one and then get killed the next second by another mob. Our heals are simply laughable. I specced high into healing and I can recover mabe 1/5 my life what every 40 seconds?…the mobs hit for half my life or spam me with conditions that eat my life like crazy…or I am one shotted, or I am hit once knocked down and killed on the ground.

Spawn zerging is no fun, when players are doing this it means you have a game design problem. It demoralizes people, makes them feel that no matter how they spec their character no matter how skilled they are, no matter what their gear…that the game is meant to be a spawn fest. Additionally EVERY character MUST spec for toughness and survival…because there is no way to make a formation…there is no way to control the mobs, or have them attack tanks.

So everyone must be tanks…why even give us the option to spec DPS or even support for that matter. This game is balanced around PVP…all the skills are lackluster and do very very little…which is typical of what PVP balance usually becomes. Its obvious that PVP was the main focus of this game, they removed the holy trinity because balancing PVP and that are difficult to do…the dungeons were thrown together haphazardly and the brutality and disappointing game play was excused by simply calling it"hardcore"…as if that rings really cool and awesome right? We are hardcore hell yeah!

Except what does that mean? It means a totally unrewarding coop game play experience. Even for completing these dungeons I am getting nothing..not even good loot. I see blue and green items. Its all I see. I get 15k xp and what 15 silver? You can get much more doing anything else in this game. You give out xp like candy for your rift style zergfest events. Yet for some reason you don’t reward people putting themselves through that kind of awful gameplay experience? What were you thinking…if you had this mentality when making the game…that you dislike PVE dungeon play I wish you would have been upfront about it. I would have passed on your game.

Honestly, I think most people in this thread are missing the core reason why dungeons are so hard and why there is such a gap between the “lol you guys just suck at the game” people and the “we died infinite # of times” people.

GW2 is a 100% completely different type of game than any other MMO out there, and in Dungeons it really requires having a good grasp on how things are different. The problem is that dungeons are a giant leap in difficulty without there being any middle ground.

Regular PvE is a joke in this game, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You literally can just run around and just mash buttons and rarely die without truly understanding how your button mashing changed the fight. In regular pve it really doesn’t matter how you play, in almost all cases you will win the fight. The only exceptions to this are champions (which are meant for groups anyways) and some veterans, although most can be handled with ease. The rest of the game lets users explore without being put in any real danger. For the most part you never, ever have to play directly with another person in regular pve.

Then players turn 30, get told they can go to the first dungeon in this game and the player goes YAY, cause lets face it this is the only game that makes you wait 30 levels to go into a dungeon. They get destroyed, find out the reward is only 20 silver or something and say “screw that”.

The core problem is there is no intermediary difficulty in between regular pve and dungeons. There is nothing that really helps you learn your class dynamics in a team environment in a non-frustrating way. There’s nothing that helps teach you “button mashing won’t work, here’s what you need to do” without outright stomping on you, so a lot of players don’t know the actual impact of changing their builds.

There is nothing that shows the benefit of switching some of your +Power armor to +Toughness, and nothing that explains how +Toughness actually improves your character (Yay I got +210 toughness, wtf does that even mean in the actual game).

They really need to work on ramping up the difficulty in some areas so that it’s easier for players to learn group dynamics without getting stomped. Once players get a taste of that and they start understanding how to work in a group, and what different armor actually means for their character then dungeon/raid type gameplay will make sense to everyone much more.

Until then, it will be like my guild where it’s impossible to get a dungeon group going because everyone would rather keep PvEing and make actual progress with their characters than to get steamrolled in a dungeon for very little benefit.

I agree with the OP to a certain extent.

I sincerely hope ArenaNet considers re-balancing the dungeons a bit, especially for newcomers. Personally, it didn’t bother me at all that I kept dying over and over in the Ascalonian Catacombs (AC) dungeon since I am already used to GW1 dungeons. However, my guild mates (all of whom are new to GW2, never played GW1 and mostly come from playing other MMOs) complained heavily that we kept dying over and over, especially on trash mobs (I agree with the OP that bosses were easier than trash mobs, especially those groups of 3 trash mobs with a warrior an elementalist and a ranger).

I admit I was somewhat mortified and saddened by their comments, I mean I really wanted them to love GW2 as much as I did. But it was sad to see that some of them were not having any fun. In the end we completed the dungeon, mostly because we were stubborn and didn’t want to quit, but I’m afraid the experience may have already turned them off to doing any of the other dungeons, or even to try AC again in exploration mode. I may just have to PUG the rest.

My GM mentioned that he thought the main issue was that AC was way too difficult for newcomers, and that this was especially troublesome seeing how this was basically everyone’s first dungeon. Having a bad experience on your first dungeon in the game can certainly lead many to turn away from dungeons altogether.

Hope ArenaNet reads this…

F

I do not find any problems with instance at all… I’ve completed every single instance but the lvl 80. You just need to be competent along with the other 4 on your party. If you die to much, just get revival spells. The harder the better, if its too easy it will get boring =/

There are healers in this game. The guardian can spec out to be a good AOE healer. But with no aggro pulling skills there is no tank class. The closest thing to a tank class would be a defensive warrior and he still can’t pull the aggro or survive a few shots by himself. So its not like he could just run in and aggro the whole mob on himself then have the rest of the team run in after to save hiskitten Nine times out of ten if he did that he would die before the rest of his team entered the battle.

KallDrexx.7368:

Honestly, I think most people in this thread are missing the core reason why dungeons are so hard and why there is such a gap between the “lol you guys just suck at the game” people and the “we died infinite # of times” people.

GW2 is a 100% completely different type of game than any other MMO out there, and in Dungeons it really requires having a good grasp on how things are different. The problem is that dungeons are a giant leap in difficulty without there being any middle ground.

Regular PvE is a joke in this game, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You literally can just run around and just mash buttons and rarely die without truly understanding how your button mashing changed the fight. In regular pve it really doesn’t matter how you play, in almost all cases you will win the fight. The only exceptions to this are champions (which are meant for groups anyways) and some veterans, although most can be handled with ease. The rest of the game lets users explore without being put in any real danger. For the most part you never, ever have to play directly with another person in regular pve.

Then players turn 30, get told they can go to the first dungeon in this game and the player goes YAY, cause lets face it this is the only game that makes you wait 30 levels to go into a dungeon. They get destroyed, find out the reward is only 20 silver or something and say “screw that”.

The core problem is there is no intermediary difficulty in between regular pve and dungeons. There is nothing that really helps you learn your class dynamics in a team environment in a non-frustrating way. There’s nothing that helps teach you “button mashing won’t work, here’s what you need to do” without outright stomping on you, so a lot of players don’t know the actual impact of changing their builds.

There is nothing that shows the benefit of switching some of your +Power armor to +Toughness, and nothing that explains how +Toughness actually improves your character (Yay I got +210 toughness, wtf does that even mean in the actual game).

They really need to work on ramping up the difficulty in some areas so that it’s easier for players to learn group dynamics without getting stomped. Once players get a taste of that and they start understanding how to work in a group, and what different armor actually means for their character then dungeon/raid type gameplay will make sense to everyone much more.

Until then, it will be like my guild where it’s impossible to get a dungeon group going because everyone would rather keep PvEing and make actual progress with their characters than to get steamrolled in a dungeon for very little benefit.

Good post, I think you speak the truth here in many ways. I actually think it’s partly a side effect of the downscaling though. I don’t agree that the PvE world is faceroll, but I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t play the content appropriate to their level. The level 45+ area next to the Charr hometown (forget what it’s called) is prettykittenchallenging if you are doing it at your own level. On the other hand, the downscaling is many times making the PvE a bit too easy, as it feels like you’re playing with a big buff all the time. Coming from THAT to the dungeons is a shock I imagine. I don’t think they should change that, it’s just something to note.

Seriously though, I find all of this complaining quite depressing, and I can see why other devs probably cave in to this kind of thing and water their game down to these easy-mode experiences like wow and rift have. The dungeons are a lot of fun, people just need to understand their class, take their time, and work together.

Having read all the posts in this thread, I have observed quite a lot of comments about how the dungeons are too hard, and the loot is not good enough. I doubt I have much to say that will differ greatly from that of previous posts, but I simply cannot restrain myself from chiming in.

As to the difficulty of the dungeons, and the fact that most players are not prepared for this level of challenge: I agree, the dungeons are in fact difficult, and open world PvE does very little to teach you the skills required to complete them. That is why I feel AC is level 30 and not less…you need those initial levels to simply learn the basics of any profession. THEN AC teaches you the ADVANCED tactics you will need to successfully complete dungeons and high end content in this game. I agree with the statement that this is completely unlike WoW, where you basically just had to show up in the right gear, and you could faceroll any instance. Dungeons in GW2 require TEAMWORK, using skills you may not normally use in basic world exploration and casual questing. I play my Guardian one way out in the world, and completely differently in dungeons. In dungeons, characters need to utilize skills that benefit the entire group, not themselves. Kiting, CC, TARGET ASSISTING, etc. are NOT optional. You cannot simply enter a dungeon in GW2 and expect to play the same way you always do. The strategy for each encounter is not always obvious (in fact, it rarely is) but there is one to be found if you’re determined. Bust out your boons, keep an eye on your team, combat awareness is key. Its pointless to claim something needs tuning down because it is too difficult when there are many people completing these dungeons with proper groups and tactics (I have completed dungeons both in PUGs and with guildies, and of course its vastly more difficult with a PUG…is that really a surprise though?).

As to the loot quality, its common knowledge (or should be) that dungeon drops are mostly there for aesthetic purposes…finding the cool skins for your EXISTING gear. I believe the tokens are also used for crafting legendary items in the Mystic Forge, but I’m not 100% sure about that as I have not personally used the forge as yet. If cool skins and legendary items don’t appeal to people, and neither does gaining a feeling of satisfaction by completing a difficult task requiring skill, patience, and preparation, then I agree, there is no reason for them to be subjecting themselves to the apparent stress running these dungeons is causing them. If, however, people are interested in developing their skills and learning the FULL POTENTIAL of their professions in an intense, demanding group setting, the dungeons are great. I can only speak for myself of course, but I greatly enjoy the challenge the dungeons present, and each time I do one, I learn a bit more about the profession I play.

I would personally be greatly disappointed if they tune down the dungeons. They’re great the way they are, and if they were to be made easier, it would diminish both the feeling of satisfaction gained through a successful completion, and the value and purpose of acquiring less common skins for your gear. What’s the point if everyone can simply show up and get them? As end game gear stats are pretty standard, the main thing to strive for a unique look for your character.

Just my two cents worth, of course. At the end of the day, do what brings you the most enjoyment…it is a game, after all.

Ralcore.9354:

Having read all the posts in this thread, I have observed quite a lot of comments about how the dungeons are too hard, and the loot is not good enough. I doubt I have much to say that will differ greatly from that of previous posts, but I simply cannot restrain myself from chiming in.

As to the difficulty of the dungeons, and the fact that most players are not prepared for this level of challenge: I agree, the dungeons are in fact difficult, and open world PvE does very little to teach you the skills required to complete them. That is why I feel AC is level 30 and not less…you need those initial levels to simply learn the basics of any profession. THEN AC teaches you the ADVANCED tactics you will need to successfully complete dungeons and high end content in this game. I agree with the statement that this is completely unlike WoW, where you basically just had to show up in the right gear, and you could faceroll any instance. Dungeons in GW2 require TEAMWORK, using skills you may not normally use in basic world exploration and casual questing. I play my Guardian one way out in the world, and completely differently in dungeons. In dungeons, characters need to utilize skills that benefit the entire group, not themselves. Kiting, CC, TARGET ASSISTING, etc. are NOT optional. You cannot simply enter a dungeon in GW2 and expect to play the same way you always do. The strategy for each encounter is not always obvious (in fact, it rarely is) but there is one to be found if you’re determined. Bust out your boons, keep an eye on your team, combat awareness is key. Its pointless to claim something needs tuning down because it is too difficult when there are many people completing these dungeons with proper groups and tactics (I have completed dungeons both in PUGs and with guildies, and of course its vastly more difficult with a PUG…is that a really surprise though?).

As to the loot quality, its common knowledge (or should be) that dungeon drops are mostly there for aesthetic purposes…finding the cool skins for your EXISTING gear. I believe the tokens are also used for crafting legendary items in the Mystic Forge, but I’m not 100% sure about that as I have not personally used the forge as yet. If cool skins and legendary items don’t appeal to people, and neither does gaining a feeling of satisfaction by completing a difficult task requiring skill, patience, and preparation, then I agree, there is no reason for them to be subjecting themselves to the apparent stress running these dungeons is causing them. If, however, people are interested in developing their skills and learning the FULL POTENTIAL of their professions in an intense, demanding group setting, the dungeons are great. I can only speak for myself of course, but I greatly enjoy the challenge the dungeons present, and each time I do one, I learn a bit more about the profession I play.

I would personally be greatly disappointed if they tune down the dungeons. They’re great the way they are, and if they were to be made easier, it would diminish both the feeling of satisfaction gained through a successful completion, and the value and purpose of acquiring less common skins for your gear. What’s the point if everyone can simply show up and get them? As end game gear stats are pretty standard, the main thing to strive for a unique look for your character.

Just my two cents worth, of course. At the end of the day, do what brings you the most enjoyment…it is a game, after all.

i agree with you to a point, i dont want the dungeons to be easier, but the mobs are literally facerolling us. im not really sure if this is because we sucked, or because the mobs are way to strong.

the way the fight feels right now, we are getting downed too fast, i dont have time to think about whats going on, im starting the think that there isnt just one puller in this game anymore. it’s more of a “charge!”

Rosseau.1073:

I do not find any problems with instance at all… I’ve completed every single instance but the lvl 80. You just need to be competent along with the other 4 on your party. If you die to much, just get revival spells. The harder the better, if its too easy it will get boring =/

that isn’t a very productive opinion, you apparently don’t PUG. im looking for information on how to play these new dungeons. and saying you have to be good isnt really telling me much.

i want there to be a challenge, i want it to be hard. but i dont want it to be a quick death, i dont even have time to look for combo fields or CC enemies off of allys.

The best option i can think of right now, is increasing CC durations. my blinds dont last long enough for what the Cooldown is.

Krypto.3569:

i agree with you to a point, i dont want the dungeons to be easier, but the mobs are literally facerolling us. im not really sure if this is because we sucked, or because the mobs are way to strong.

the way the fight feels right now, we are getting downed too fast, i dont have time to think about whats going on, im starting the think that there isnt just one puller in this game anymore. it’s more of a “charge!”

Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet, but is very significant: when you kill a mob in a group, it typically stays dead. Meaning, even if you’re in a group that is having a hard time with the dungeon in general, or just a specific encounter, focusing down one mob at a time cannot be stressed enough. That group of three that killed you guys could be easily dealt with if there were only two when you guys regroup to attempt the encounter a second time. This is seriously huge, and many people are probably not used to this, as in WoW and similar games, the mobs will respawn if you fail to kill them all, or respawn over a period of time.

I would also like to expand a bit on skill choices. In PvE when I am off clearing a zone solo, I use skills which boost my own DPS and survivability (obviously). When I decide to go do a dungeon, I change my skills, my active traits, etc. I focus my skills on Boons that affect my whole party, I make sure I have my defensive skills ready, and I typically fight much further back than I normally might. For example, in the open world, I rarely use my staff for anything other than the speed buff, and mostly use my greatsword. In dungeons, I am almost always using my staff, to buff, heal, CC, etc. Drop down a wall in a choke point, now you have 5 or 6 seconds for your whole (buffed up) group to unload on a single target or drop some AoE and burn down those mobs. Getting wrecked by ranged? Utilize line of sight, stand behind a pillar in between attacks. They will come to you and end up right in melee, or move to another target. If you have some reflection, like my Guardian’s wall that reflects projectiles (I forget what its called), you can drop that between the ranged and yourself or your group…they will continue to fire, and the reflected projectiles will wittle them down without any effort from you, while giving your group the chance to DPS them without worry of taking damage. Also, most skills have a lovely dual nature, so while my wall is reflecting projectiles, its also removing conditions from my team, for example.

Learn your skills in and out, know when to use them. Be aware of how long most cooldowns are compared to a relatively short duration (normally just a few seconds of utility, versus 20 or 30 seconds cooldown on average). Getting the most use out of your cooldowns, being ‘party specced’ versus ‘solo specced’, and field awareness will make all the difference.

Got a group, ran AC a few days ago, all first timers – Died like 10 times, but thats expected… Couldn’t see a issue.. It was challenging and fun.

Totally agreed with Ralcore.

Out of my personal experience we went to TA exp (spider wing) with a group of 5 thieves. Nobody was on voice chat. We never played with each other before. It was ~30 min run with some problems on the first boss (the vines). The rest was challenging, but totally manageble in done right. Remember 5 theives. No guardians, no support classes whatsoever. No heals, since thieves don’t have any extra heals besides healing skill. Still we managed to get it done. Stacking blinds and mass invis for rallies make wonders.

Again, it was explore mode TA dungeon:)

Story mode dungeons tend to be hard, but doable, depending on classese in a PUG (Yes, classes do matter, though more so in the sense of how people are spec’d). But explorable….. I think what annoyed me more so than enemies, were all the traps in the dungeons. I understand you’re supposed to learn to avoid the traps, fine. But traps that take you out in one hit no matter what, if you just even accidentally brush against one or mistime a dodge or lag a bit is just stupid. And 99% of the time you’re dead, period, if you get hit by a trap because the dot from the traps or their re-fire rate is so high that they might’ve well have just sent you straight to totally dead to begin with. I mean I understand you have to learn to avoid them, but one-hit ko, on the slightest brush (as an ele) is just silly.

That aside, while I agree that the dungeon explorables get easier if you have an organized team for it, I feel the need to point out that games which do not have some sort of built-in voice communications method really shouldn’t expect their players to use voice chat to be able to pass the content… even with that out of the way, most people just don’t have the time, or the social circles to be with a dedicated team of players all the time.

Though, I think what it all really boils down to is the risk-reward of the dungeons. In guild wars 1, I didn’t mind spending hours and hours trying different builds, doing different things in order to get past some hard content. It felt rewarding in the end when I DID pass it, but that’s because I did NOT GET PUNISHED FOR TRYING.

I don’t think most people mind spending the time and effort to try out different builds or repeat the same content in order to figure it out. But the way guild wars 2 is setup, it really punishes you for wanting to try different specs, both in terms of traits and equipment. Add to that the cost of repairs in the dungeons on the deaths. I am willing to bet that 99% of the people complaining about the content for the explorable right now wouldn’t complain anymore if the game didn’t punish you so hard for trying it out. I know I wouldn’t mind spending days and days on an explorable dungeon EVEN IF I DON’T COMPLETE IT as long as it didn’t make me totally broke trying it. They did it right with the free waypoints in dungeons. Now they just have to make it so your equipment doesn’t break, or make the repairs a lot cheaper in the dungeons, and I won’t mind the current difficulties at all, even if it means smacking my face against the traps over and over and over again until I figure out all the patterns.

1. The game is for everyone. It’s impossible to believe that evey aspect of the game can be for everyone since people like different things….. Was very confused by that comment as nerfing dungeons would in turn make others angry.

2. I actually thought ac story mode was easy compared to the impression everyone gave.

3. I think the “you are the only one you can rely on” mentality is actually what’s hurting people. I think control is the most important aspect of the game. You can’t necessarily take aggro but you can blind, stun, cripple, immobilize the foe to prevent damage from being done to your allies.

4. Combo fields are not organized enough. They were obviously an essential part of the game and difficult stuff should not be able to be completed without them. I’ve seen water field + whirl finisher do 50%+ healing to the entire team.

5. I’m amazed by how oblivious people are to downed teammates. Downed teammates are very quick to rez and can often times function as meat shields and yet everyone just stands around and watches them die…. I don’t get it.

I think the problem is the difficult stuff requires so much teamwork but in a way people aren’t used to and they don’t seem to understand that. Create combo fields and use them I think you’ll be amazed.

Ps I thought abledorn was easy? We had like 3 total deaths in 2 attempts. More downs but rezed

Edit: auto correct on phone fixed

The problem isn’t the difficulty. It’s the balancing. When you get 1 shotted, something is wrong. AC is an ENTRY LEVEL dungeon. It’s should introduce players to their dungeons, and currently, it’s showing them that it’s too hard. There is a fine line between frustration, balance, and completion.

necro wells + proj = lifesteal

If done correctly necro’s can blind for 30+ secs. Let me say that again….THIRTY SECONDS OF NO DAMAGE from that target(s). These blinds i speak of are aoe btw AOE heal with life transfer and health regen from staff if people are close enough when it pops.

Though i do agree the gargoyle heads in AC are a bit rough…to say the least lol

^{^}^very small sample of what can be achieved. Someone posted that the combat was just auto attack+dodge HAHAHA ok….

Voltar.8574:

i’m scratching my head wondering how people some people say the dungeons are impossible and others have the first 2 dungeons on farm.

they’ve (anet) said that dungeons were intended to be high-end pve content that wasn’t for everyone. some people may need more practice or may never be good enough (myself included).

How stupid is it to spend so much time building content for a small portion of your playerbase?

Just ran CM today….was in there 2+ hours…..we died and died and ran and ran….people quit we tried to replace, got the you can’t join your dungeon instance bug of course and had to quit.

Honestly it had gotten beyond ridiculous. I was getting one shotted by a pair of riflemen….instant death repeatedly. I basicalyl wasted time got maybe 1/10 of a level of xp from doing it….it was way harder, took longer, and cost me repair money, and I walk away empty handed.

Why is dungeon play so garbage? Why are their no xp rewards like for everything else. I can cut down a tree or pick a flower and get xp for gods sake. Its like Anet doest want or even care about dungeon play. Its almost impossible to play dungeons and progress your character…you cant play the game the way you want and get xp.

This has got to be the most punishing and unrewarding dungeon coop game ever….and its a total 180 from everything else in the game. Even PVP seems to be geared to not having people one shotted…because you know what? That is no fun at all.

Story mode AC is doable. I did it my first time and didn’t find it too hard.

Explore mode AC is ridiculously hard and impossible to beat unless you choose the right option (which we didn’t find out until after).

1. Spider Boss has this poison dot that lasts almost a minute long which just continuously mows down your group. Also, at the same time you have those gargoyle wall mounts that you have to destroy. This boss was hard, but we did it with a few run backs each.

2. Second boss, Lieutenant Kohler was ridiculously hard. He comes with two adds and you can only beat him by dragging him away and leashing the mobs. We figured out how to beat him, but it took almost 15 minutes. He moves slow so we just kept running away from him, but he would occasionally suck you in and instantly gib you.

3. Trash mobs to the Lovers chamber was just ridiculous. We wiped a few times on them.

4. The burrower boss is impossible. Eventually you get 3 different burrows up simultaneously on different sides of the map with those Stalkers running aroundkitteneveryone. The only way to win is to kill all the burrows which is impossible. We gave up after this.

I’m seriously disappointed by how difficult this dungeon is because the rewards aren’t worth it. You would have to run it almost 50 times to get all the items you want from the vendor.

I like challenging dungeons, not impossible ones.

I did my first two runs yesterday. The first group, where the highest level member was level 46, didn’t do all too well, but not all too bad either. We died and ress’d a few times but cleared all the way until we lost the level 46 to DC or something. Then we had to regroup since Story doesn’t allow for adding members half-ways through. I noticed myself being a warrior that I had a huge damage output but that I died too easily and spammed abilities like a noob (which has worked well in most other mmos).

Then I regrouped with someone else, this time we had a level 62 and two level 80 on the team. They seemed to know what they were doing. It took some time, but it went pretty smoothly, the only ones dying more than once were me and a fellow level 30. The other group members seemed to keep well out of even taking damage from the opponents. Now I saw them actually take damage in some instances and they died like me and the other fly. So I figured them having superior gear or traits wasn’t what turned the tide here. Especially the level 62 player kept excelling time after time. She kept call targeting the correct mob within seconds of meeting groups of them. Once she did we all pressed 0, or whatever key we bound to target called target, and started hunting that mob.

As others hint to here. A lot of the “hardness” in these dungeons is based on timing the correct skills and combos. Spamming abilities doesn’t work at all. The individual player should invest time in learning what traits and what utilities they have at disposal, as well as having a few different sets of weapons at hand. I, for one, noticed I was in sore need of a ranged weapon in AC.

We can switch trait abilities and utilities/heal/elite more or less on the fly. So seeing what team mates you have and then swapping accordingly wouldn’t hurt before delving into the dungeon.

Also, never do a double roll, it’s a waste of energy.

ok, i just pugged ac today and i can definitively say that you guys just need to get better at the game. it’s not really that hard. maybe go out of your way in the persistant world to solo stuff and practice your e&e because dungeons (ac at least) are working as intended.

Ascalonian Catacombs:
I reach lvl 30, thinking: “Yes! I can now go and do some dungeon and get me some nice gear and experience!”
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It took me a while to find a group for the story mode, but that’s ok. We entered the dungeon.. We managed to kill those in the first room, then we got to the hallway and died a couple of times by those three ghosts. No problem, we can handle this.
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So, we managed to get to the Spider Queen, and got facerolled! “Alright guys, it has to be a strategy here… Ahh, destroy the Gargoyles!”.. And that’s what we did, and we owned the Queen. And then we got to the next hallway and got owned by three ghosts once again.. My party left, and I had to find a new one…
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Ok.. Now we have started all over again, and we reached the first Champion. We managed to kill him quite easily, with a few deaths for some of us in the party.
Then we reached the next boss (the ghost standing on the big rock) and he was e-a-s-y!
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We moved on to those two ghosts who were together, and they were quite easy to kill as well. Then, we killed the last boss and got a nice hat and a lot of experience.
When I reached lvl 40, I decided to do the Explorable mode.
IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO SURVIVE! We managed to get to a “defending mission” where we have to guard two pillars which were charging. Gnarl was attacking us constantly. The Gnarls killed the two pillars before we managed to get over 50 %… Seven times!
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The group ragequitted, and I did not want to go into that dungeon again. Ever!
This is the first dungeon you gain access to, and it is hard as a flagpole! The Explorable mode is.. Impossible for casual players. Even players who have spent 2 years of their life playing WoW. Even players ranked Master in Starcraft 2! There was NO CHANCE to complete it..
Is that a good experience to give those who are trying a dungeon for the first time? NO!
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So, here I am, lvl 53, and I haven’t entered any dungeons except for MC (lvl 40 Story mode). I just dont want to spend 2 hours of MAYBE completing a dungeon. What if we don’t? It will give me no rewards and waste my day doing nothing.
Please, lower the difficulty? Everyone playing Guild Wars 2 are not Hardcore players..

Looked at this thread yesterday, and set out on a personal quest this morning: Let me try and prove that Ascalon Catacombs Explorable Mode is doable without wipes when people are working together. So, after consulting with some guild mates, we strategized and theory crafted ways to make an ultimate teamwork composition with guildies who volunteered to do Explorable Mode with me.

Lets break this down.
Me a Warrior
A Thief
A Mesmer
A Gaurdian
A Elementalist

We looked at our vastly different profession composition and looked for which weapons for each of us could either support the party, debuff the enemies or even both! We then realized, “Hey, why not throw combo fields into this!? Lets get all hardcore with combo fields!”. We even took it a step further. “Lets trait ourselves to be more supporty!” We all payed no more then 3 silver 50 copper to respect into more supporty traits.

At the end of all this character building, we ended up with:
A supporty Warrior
A supporty Thief
A supporty Mesmer
A supporty Gaurdian
A supporty Elementalist

Dear god. We flew through Catacombs. In fact, each successive run got even faster. So here is how we did it.

Warrior: Mace/Shield &Hammer for swap
Thief: Dagger/Pistol or Sword/Pistol
Mesmer: Staff
Guardian: Hammer
Elementalist: Staff

Warrior, Guardian AND Thief stay front lines. The Thief will constantly use the offhand pistol 5 skill to apply a smoke field in between him/her and the enemy. Now the trick is, to get your Warrior and Guardian into that smokefield and have the warrior spam 1 while the Guardian goes apepoop. Each hit that anyone does to any enemies WHILE in the smokefield will apply blind. Now think for a second: If 3 people are constantly hitting the same enemy with each hit applying blind, how does that enemy hit you? Now, for the off chance that the enemy IS able to hit you, that is what that Warrior applying weakness is there for. Regen Banners is a plus!

Elementalist in Water Attunement: COMBO FIELDS EVERYWHERE!!! No seriously, we were regenerating like crazy!

Mesmer was awesome at applying conditions to our foes while granting boons to our party! We were able to give ourselves 25 stacks of might + the other boons when he copies over his boons to us. His Wall of Reflection was amazing for deflecting the Lieutenants Daggerstorm ability.

Okay, I meant to only type a bit, but this is turning into a full on novel. So instead I’m going to post a recording of one of our runs so you guys can see =].
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TL:DR: AC Explorable Mode is doable without wipes. Here is video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_zRO2FfSL4
About a 45 min run through the whole thing over 3 parts.

How many tears we got today: http://i.imgur.com/gR9lT.jpg