Guild Wars 2

Hard=intelligent enemies and cool tactics → good
Hard=Lots of hp and damge → bad

Easy+unrewarding → bad
Easy+rewarding → bad
Hard+unrewarding → bad
Hard+rewarding → good

gw2 instances aren’t in the good bracket of any of this 2 lists

IDK if this has been posted before, but Guardian has several utilities that help in a group. The roles are there, just that it is more focused on your own survival apart from a group that counts a lot.

Seems the content is intended really only for guild groups (people using VOIP) and not so much for pick up groups. If you’re not willing to commit to the guild lifestyle, I’d probably pass on PvE instances.

Even story mode (which you would think would be tailored more towards PUGS) really isn’t worth doing more than once. Get your hat and move on.

Also remember that outside of the challenge, there’s no real need to do explore. If you like skins and crap then sure, but for most they’ll do it till they beat it and move on. Some will do it repeatedly because they don’t know how to do anything else.

I do the dungeons with friends and guild members only, with Skype or TS. They’re a lot of fun and I love the difficulty level. I’ve done enough WoW pugs to be of the opinion that you couldn’t pay me to pug GW2 dungeons. But that doesn’t mean I think the dungeons should be changed – if they do get nerfed they’ll just become boring.

In short, if you’re finding them difficult my advice would be to join a guild and check your build and the builds of those in your group to make sure they’re optimal for the task.

Kana.6793:

I do the dungeons with friends and guild members only, with Skype or TS. They’re a lot of fun and I love the difficulty level. I’ve done enough WoW pugs to be of the opinion that you couldn’t pay me to pug GW2 dungeons. But that doesn’t mean I think the dungeons should be changed – if they do get nerfed they’ll just become boring.

In short, if you’re finding them difficult my advice would be to join a guild and check your build and the builds of those in your group to make sure they’re optimal for the task.

That’s the best advice. If you’re not willing to take your commitment to the game to the next level (get in a guild, get on VOIP), then move on. GW2 was not made with PUGS in mind (in regards to dungeons). I know there are a number of reasons why one would be uncomfortable with VOIP, but thems the breaks.

SiNoS.2147:

I as a support/tanky build guardian get between the mob and my allies and take a good brunt of the damage moving on those shots that will 1 shot me while i keep healing abilities rolling on myself and my group. I also call targets on casters that i know are going to mess us up and make sure the group knows to focus burn whats called. Over all it goes fairly quickly without too much issues. It just takes everyone doing there part and really helps if you have someone playing a tank type role..

That is a tank! (said the way Lt. Worf said, “He is a Borg!”)
I’m also wondering if the truly viable dungeon groups must have a water ele or WS(?) ranger or engineer.
My WoW Shaman and my EQ2 Mystic could do nice damage and support and weren’t locked into healing by game mechanics but rather locked into healing by people—if you play a class that can heal, you’re filling the healer role most of the time because most players just want to DPS, so I either heal or don’t play any time soon.

NoFate.3786:

And Relic, how do you think we gonna control, aoe, kite, blind 50+mobs that keep multiplying and run faster than we do with runspeed buffs?

I’m having the same difficulty with everything moving faster than I am; it feels like moving, dodging, CC do little more than postpone the inevitable.

Cloud.2178:

I got through my first dungeon on my first try solely through…

1. Team communication before each major battle
2. Splitting roles and prioritizing targets

there..“splitting roles”

The problem may be that GW2 was touted as not requiring premeditated classes (PUG-friendly) but any class can dynamically perform any function and facilitate ad hoc grouping. This is true for regular PvE but does it not go completely out the window for dungeons?

I’m not saying dungeons are broken or anything, only that they are contrary to how the game presented itself and it gives zero warning of what’s to come. (I don’t find learning by getting repeatedly slaughtered FUN—level 10 & 20 dungeons could have facilitated the mindset transition.)

What I’m hearing from this thread is that Tank/Healer/DPS/CC coordination has been replaced with a more intricate, more specific type of coordination (skill combos, timing) but has not done away with the “traditional” functions of Tank/Healer/DPS/CC. This seems more rigid and involved (PUG-hostile) than the trinity when the message I got was that GW2 was supposed to have gone the opposite direction. I felt like I got the carpet pulled out from under me at my first dungeon.

What else I got from this thread is to spec for survivability (vitality, toughness, heal) and group support. Rather than pigeonhole different classes, all classes seem to be pigeonholed into the same “dungeon spec”.

What’s important to realise is that Anet’s worked on this for years and we’ve only had it for 2 weeks, so its a safe assumption that we, the players, are missing some things and need to work at it as, thankfully, this isn’t a theme park. I would only critisise Anet for its message (no trinity, etc.) rather than its game design as I see every indication that a tank is needed (if you’re controlling aggro and soaking damage, you are a tank, not “tanky” and I’m only seeing Guardians mentioned in this thread for that—I mean, “Guardian” is synonymous with “Tank” here as it is in EQ2).

The only other feedback I have for Anet is that, yes, the trash mobs in AC story were far more difficult than the bosses—double-u-tee-aitch—and that the rewards should be commiserate with the difficulty involved. (and don’t give me that “sense of accomplishment” crap because LOOT is FUN!)

your all still missing the fact this game was designed around playing a character they way YOU want to play them so having people MAKE a support/“tank” role to run dungeons isnt that against their own game design. if i want to be a glass cannon and just wreck faces shouldn’t I be allowed to play that way? Dungeons are fun and yes I like a good healthy challenge but the way dungoens are now are just disappointing me personally they should “dumb down” current explore modes BUT make level 80 version of the current dungeons for the “hard core” kids thats just me. Im what i guess you could call a hardcore casual player. I play tons but im not a HARDCORE raider i suppose but that shouldnt have to force me out of enjoying a good 30% of the game (dungeons)

The whole reason for no-trinity thing was – you pick 5 RANDOM ppl and run a dungeon with no problems. But it’s not working. I already see these messages in /m chat:
LF support guardian/mesmer Arah explo!
LF tanking warrior/guardian

Despite what everyone keeps telling themselves – there ARE tanks in this games, there also are HEALERS. It’s a question of a spec+gear. Full cleric armor/jewelry, mace+shield, honor/valor guardian is a healer/buffer. Reminds me of Aion’s chanter. Lots of protection barriers/shields/HoTs.

Explorable mode should be hard, story mode was supposed to be easy so everyone could do the dungeons.

Instead, all I see from other players in my guild and elsewhere is “I’m never going to do another dungeon again!”

That is a bad thing.

Lasica.5068:

Explorable mode should be hard, story mode was supposed to be easy so everyone could do the dungeons.

Instead, all I see from other players in my guild and elsewhere is “I’m never going to do another dungeon again!”

That is a bad thing.

Everyone I talk to, other than a handful of people on these forums (the minority) love dungeons. Everyone I’ve played with says they are a nice challenge, albeit one with a slight reward issue (which I really hope gets fixed, considering that’s really the only complaint I’ve heard); however, they still play them for the sake of doing something that they consider challenging and rewarding.

Your guild is not the entire playerbase. And honestly, I don’t REALLY care that much about their opinion on dungeons; it’s not for them, and that’s fine.. I just hope ArenaNet cares just as much as I do.

Hieronumous.3541:

Lasica.5068:

Explorable mode should be hard, story mode was supposed to be easy so everyone could do the dungeons.

Instead, all I see from other players in my guild and elsewhere is “I’m never going to do another dungeon again!”

That is a bad thing.

Everyone I talk to, other than a handful of people on these forums (the minority) love dungeons. Everyone I’ve played with says they are a nice challenge, albeit one with a slight reward issue (which I really hope gets fixed, considering that’s really the only complaint I’ve heard); however, they still play them for the sake of doing something that they consider challenging and rewarding.

Your guild is not the entire playerbase. And honestly, I don’t REALLY care that much about their opinion on dungeons; it’s not for them, and that’s fine.. I just hope ArenaNet cares just as much as I do.

I also hear more people saying they are going to do them over and over because there fun to do. I infact only hear this whining of the wah i suck make it easy and give me epic loots crowd here on the forum’s.

I’ve returned to this thread to update my thoughts upon dungeons. I recently did Sorrow’s Embrace in Story Mode with a group of five friends over mumble (ventrilo). We did amazingly well, with no wipes the entire dungeon and a few deaths here and there. Our party consisted of; 2 Ele’s, 1 War, 1 Guard (me), and 1 Thief. With lots of coordination over voice speak, we were able to effectively work as a team. When one of us went into the downed state, we would let the others know. One Ele went water to cast healing geysers and rain while the other went full on offense. The warrior and I acted as melee damage, while I also took the role of meat shield, utilizing my mace and shield to mitigate most incoming damage, while also throwing out walls of reflection to cause ranged attackers to damage themselves, giving our team breathers. The thief did what he did best; stabby stabby in the back of enemies. We had no complaints about the difficulty except that the Kudu fight was overly long.

My general dungeon advice; never ever think you’re stuck in one mindset the entire dungeon. Change your utility skills as necessary to fit the encounter’s setting. And remember; you’re on a team, so speak up! Communication is key to survival. Also, don’t pug these things. Pugging will lead to bad experiences, unless you luck out and get really good players. Otherwise, save these dungeons for guildies/friends that are competent gamers.

Overall, I enjoy the lack of the “Holy Trinity”. It provides for a much more unpredictable, chaotic and stay-on-your-toes style of dungeon crawling. Kudos to ANet for thinking outside the box.

I really HATED dungeons after I tried AC the first time. It was incredibly hard and we barely made it through. Eventually, though, my friend made it to 30 and we decided to give it a shot with some other random people. Since that time I had gained around 30 levels and progressed in skill quite a lot. The dungeon that time was much easier. The problem there is that I had to be level 60ish to really enjoy the story mode of a level 30 dungeon. I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge and I still want that, but I also want to be able to do the dungeon at the level it opens up.

Suggestions:
-A lot of people are asking for easy and hard modes. I say make an easy mode that only gives slightly better gear than story, and make hard mode the current explorable mode. Of course story mode stays the same.

-IDK anymore at the moment. I need to go to sleep

OH and don’t forget to make these hard dungeons worth more than 4 blue items…

I believe that PUGs should be able to do these dungeons to some extent as the devs have said that they wanted to avoid “lf healer” waiting lines and that includes finding guilds just to do dungeons.

And seriously… FIX THE REWARD SYSTEM! Right now I just avoid the dungeons as their rewards aren’t even worth more than the money I spend to fix my gear on bad runs!

AC was hard but it was definitely fun. I pugged my first AC story run at lvl 60 while the rest of my team only around 30+, 1 guy dc shortly after the first boss so we decided to kept on going and finished with 4 people, it wasn’t that bad tbh, just need people that actually know what they are doing with their characters.

I only did AC ones, when I hit 30. It was a dreadfull experience, mostly consisting of us zerg rushing from waypoint to boss, before the last player standing died and the boss reset.
I was so not prepared for the level difficulty, being spoiled by WoWs dunegons for the past few years.
Can’t say I dislike it though. I want dungeons to be hard.

Since that run I have read up a bit about how to properly prepare for inastances. And I have now stacked a bit more vit and toughness to help with survivabillity.
Hopefully the next run won’t be as horrible as the first one. :P

the dungeons are bad some bosses do nothing other bosses randomly kill everyone
theres no tanks or healers yet guardians do both. the game would be better with aggro tbh…. this is a fact not an opinion -_-

Story Mode Dungeons aren’t supposed to be a wipefest, and they aren’t if done right.

Explorable Mode on the other hand, is supposed to be a wipefest but that’s not what this thread is about.

Ascalonian Catacombs itself is somewhat harder than some of the other story mode dungeons but can still be a pretty smooth experience if done right.

I had two runs yesterday, one with by Guild which was rather messy and full of spinless whiners who didn’t understand the game-mechanics. Needless to say they gave up at the twins.

The second group was a PuG which did much better and sailed through the whole thing without a complete wipe.

What I’m trying to say is that it depends A LOT on group dynamics how smooth a dungeon is. Only because it’s hard with your specific group doesn’t mean it’s hard for others. I’d suggest you give it a try with a different group and see if it goes any better.

However there are some things to consider.

1. Most people are still running “class cannon” builds focusing on damage stats almost exclusively. That makes them very volatile for dungeon runs as they will die a lot, need a lot more rezzing and thus prolong every fight my a huge extent.

As a rule of thumb every player should have specced into at least on of their “defnesive” taint lines.

2. People don’t alter their builds and skills before running the dungeon. Every class has a large number of group-support abilities that are often unused in solo-play. But ignoring them in dungeons is stupid.

Every player should be changing at least something about their build and skills before starting the run. The skill system is highly adaptive for a reason,….use it.

3. Every Melee character should have a ranged weapon as well.

Melees tend to deal more damage at a higher risk to themselves. That’s fine and melees are perfectly viable. However everyone should always be able to deal ranged damage as well, because nobody can keep 100% uptime on a boss.

Putting some distance between you and a boss goes a long way toward improving your survivability. It makes it easier to dodge and observe the fight dynamics.

Again, weapon switching is a feature and anyone not using it is doing it wrong.

teemoor.4397:

Despite what everyone keeps telling themselves – there ARE tanks in this games, there also are HEALERS. It’s a question of a spec+gear. Full cleric armor/jewelry, mace+shield, honor/valor guardian is a healer/buffer.

Just because a player has support heals/buffs equipped does not make them a healer. For example, in my main guild dungeon group, we really only have one player for heals – my Engi wife. Does dropping a healing turret at the beginning of a fight make her a healer? No! Most of the time, she’s shooting things in the face. Sure, the Ele that sometimes plays with us does have some +HealingPower gear for group heals with Water Attunement, but again, more often than not she’s blowing stuff up with lightning bolts in Air Attunement. That’s not a healer. A healer is someone who sits in the back watching health bars and heals teammates when they get low, and that’s about it. If you try that in this game, you’re going to die.

As for the Tank idea, it’s still not a tank, per se. We have a defensive Warrior who does try to keep the attention of some of the nastier creatures on him, but he doesn’t just sit there and soak damage while the rest of the party smacks the mobs around. He’s still actively running from things, dodging out of the way, etc. while also using some of the +Power buffs to smack around enemies. The way he keeps attention on him is by typically being the closest creature to the nasty mob. But in reality, he ends up getting downed/killed quite often for it. Why? Because he’s not a tank, he’s just good at kiting and has enough defense to be able to shrug off a few mistakes. Again, it’s similar to tanking I guess in that he tries to keep the eyes of the enemies on him, but he has to duck and move as much as we do, and if he doesn’t and tries to plant like a tank, he’s dead in seconds. It’s really not the same.

kal.4350:

Hard=intelligent enemies and cool tactics -> good
Hard=Lots of hp and damge -> bad

Easy+unrewarding -> bad
Easy+rewarding -> bad
Hard+unrewarding -> bad
Hard+rewarding -> good

gw2 instances aren’t in the good bracket of any of this 2 lists

What, the lists that you made to make a point that you don’t like where dungeons are in GW2? That won’t be skewed at all…

What people are missing is that in these dungeons, you have to play smarter. It’s a big adjustment to make from past games in which the formula was spoon fed to us from the moment we rolled, you can’t think of the game on the same terms. So long as you have some measure of Support in your team for when the team needs it, you think and time your skills well, and you prioritize then pile mobs, these dungeons are very doable. Saying something like, “Well, my playstyle is to be a glass cannon and do lots of damage!” is basically just saying, “I wanna play how I wanna play, and if this game tries to make me lose, then it’s bad!”

This isn’t a game where you can just kick the door down. There will be times when you have to take cover behind a column/pile of rubble. There will be many times when you have to watch a boss to see when he’s about to do some nasty attack that just killed your Guardian and dodge role when you see him doing it. They are meant to be hard, and require quick thinking and teamwork to get through. And yes, there will be times when the Warrior will have to sheath his sword and pull out a shot gun. Personally, I think that’s really cool. It keeps my heart pounding, engaged and on the edge of my seat.

The one thing that I will say negatively about the dungeons is that the amount of tokens is, in my opinion, on the weaker side. The amount of time that explorable takes to complete is a little much to only get 25 tokens at the end. To get the pieces that I want from the token armors, I would have to play through the dungeons enough for me to start loathing them, and I never want that to happen.

As for drops, I think I’ve only done one run where I didn’t get something I could use, Story Mode or not. That’s better than I can say for when I played WoW, to be honest. You just have to be in a group where if someone finds a shiny drop they can’t use but you can, you know they’ll give it up instead of just vending. The game is probably called ‘Guild Wars 2’ for a reason other than the lore.

The key to dungeons is learning to adapt! People want to run in and expect to stand in the back and DPS or run up and stand toe-to-toe with some mob and tank it. That isn’t how the game works. The dungeons aren’t really that hard once people learn this.

What you need to do is pay attention to what is going on. Get out of the bad (red) circles on the ground. Watch for the enemy’s tells to know when they are charging a powerful attack or something else that needs to be avoided… and DODGE.

No one has just a single role. Everyone should be contributing in multiple ways. If you are not doing more than one thing, you need to change. You can’t just stand there and dps, you can’t just sit back and heal, and you can’t step up and just take all the hits from a mob. That means you probably shouldn’t be building 100% power, precision, and crit damage on your gear, or 100% toughness/vitality. You need some balance.

So how do you do a dungeon? Well, the first thing is learning how to not die. I have yet to come across a fight that is a dps race. It’s about survival first. The most important thing for survival is DO NOT stand still. If you get aggro then you should dodge roll, kite, CC, or whatever else you can to stop yourself from taking damage. If you don’t have aggro then you still need to be moving and dodge rolling to avoid any area effects on the ground for most fights, and you should always be CCing to prevent as much damage as possible. Blinds are especially effective. EVERYONE should be doing some sort of “tanking” this way. Whatever you do though, do NOT just take the hits no matter how much toughness/health you have.

So what about healing? If you are doing the above then everyone should be able to handle themselves through avoiding damage and self heals. I am actually a water/air Elementalist because I expected healing to be very important, but in most good runs I barely healed because everyone was avoiding the damage and keeping themselves topped off. That being said, having someone who can do some extra healing never hurts, but no one ever NEEDS to be a “healer”.

Again, you need to pay attention to what is going on around you and adapt as needed. Learn when you need to dodge/run away/kite. Knowing the boss/mobs you are fighting helps a ton. That first boss in AC explorable destroyed us with his harpoon/whirlwind combo on our first run until we learned how to dodge that harpoon attack. Now once the adds are down that fight is just ridiculously easy.

I am so glad the trinity is gone.

im quite new to the game and didnt get to the dungeons yet, but i think its safe to assume that you are having a difficult time in dungeon because you dont know the game yet – and/or you are used to how are other games played and youre trying to trying to apply rules from them here, and you fail.

then there is teamwork which just cant be achieved in perfect form with people you just met. you dont know their builds, you dont know what items they have, you dont know how they play, and they dont know anything about you. maybe spending some time and talking about these things before you start doing anything will help.

combo fields, boons and conditions arent there just for fun but should be utilized. for example use your damage skills when you have maximum might possible, fury, the enemy is vulnerable and theres a combo field available.

melee mobs can be easily kited even with melee weapon, caster and healers seem to be very powerful and archers are very annoying, especialy because i cant get used to the fact that missiles cant be dodged without actualy using dodge while melee attacks can.

to recap, gw2 is a new game with different rules than other mmos, not having a tank and a healer means that everyone has to take care about himself and thus skill level of every member of the group (including you) is important. knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of your group members (and their classes) is also important. learn the game, learn about the boons, conditions, combo fields, combo finishers and utilize them in fights. and at last, be patient and give your group all the information you have that can help you with moving towards the end.

and as a last note, if arenanet decides that the dungeons are realy hard for new and/or casual players, then i hope they wont go the usual way of nerfing them, but rahter create new easier content for those people, or add a new easy mode to the existing content. afterall, mmos dont have to be just stories about immortal heroes saving the world, they can also provide challenging content where you have to learn how to complete it the hard way.

Reeddog.9132:

Aih.6892:

I’m happy to hear that dedicated and experienced players who have a trained and regular group are finding some challenge and fun in the dungeons.
BUT :
You all must remember that GW2 is supposed to be for every kind of players, not only very good raid specialists. Meaning that everykind of people should be able to get some fun in game.
While the challenging dungeons are great for some, i think that the other ones, the casual players, which represent in fact the major part of the population of a popular game such as GW2, should have access to some adapted content too.
Yes maybe we are dumb, slow, losers or whatever you think, but we are customers as much as you.
So concretly, keep the dungeons as they are for the ones who like it and can dedicate so much time and skill to it, but add an easier mode for casual players, with shorter sessions adapted to family life, with of course less reward etc…
WHY NOT GIVING SOME CONTENT TO EVERY KIND OF PLAYERS ? After all the dungeons are already here, it shouldn’t be that hard to add some easier modes, and yes some harder modes too if there are enough people enjoying it.

This is the kind of thinking that is practiced with kids playing sports in this day. You came out and participated and WHAM!!! we have a trophy for you at the end of the season for you!!!

Hogwash! As a child when i played sports if you didn’t play on a winning team. NO TROPHY FOR YOU! I played on some teams that were winners, and i played on some teams where we lost. Having done this i learned to win, and to lose.

What you must remember is you are entitled to absolutely jack nothing in this life. I for one am tired of hearing people that describe themselves as casual( mainly touted to be the MAJORITY…… so what, i say.) moaning about how it is unfair that they are unable to complete some form of challenge in a MMO game. In this game it is the dungeons, they are hard. And they very well should be.

It is this state of mind that has lead to the nerfing, and just plain dumbing down of the majority of all games of this kind that i have played. I’ve run into content in MMO’s i was not able to complete, that vary in reasons, and i either decided to fix whatever it was making me unable to complete the challenge or i moved on deciding it was not something i could get done.

Achieving goals that are out of reach for some, or most, is a MOTIVATOR for some people, such as myself. As my opinion is worth as much as yours (and be aware i am aware my opinion means nothing to 99.99% of everyone else out there) i say no, you cant have a free pass because your special, and need lovin because you find no enjoyment in running the dungeons in GW2.

I like the fact that this part of the content of this game is tough. My family life allows me to play these dungeons and complete them. I own a business, have 2 sons, 1 irrational female partner and a whole passel of house plants that want my attention every day, day in and day out.

So again, i for one think, if you want to do the dungeons, try harder, assemble a group that is willing to try harder with you and do what it takes to get it done.

Hopefully folks spending their time on these forums detailing how it is not fair there is no easy mode for you to play goes in one dev ear and out the other. As many in this thread have said, the lewts are dookie at any rate, and are not the motivation to get in there and get it done in the first place. Its called a challenge!!! Try challenging yourself, you might dig it.

Also, what i am saying here is not addressed to you personally, rather it is addressed to the frame of mind that wants this type of content( your post is just a very good example). Be assured they will give it to you at one point or another, because if you are the type that will vote with your wallet you can guarantee this company wants your cash and will remedy your woes!

The whole fact that this game just rolled out and already people want EASIER CONTENT PLEASE!!!!! compels me to come here and say to the Dev’s i think it should not be so. At the least not right off.

Badd is putting dollar bills in your pockets while you stand on your soap box! LOL

kal.4350:

Hard=intelligent enemies and cool tactics -> good
Hard=Lots of hp and damge -> bad

Easy+unrewarding -> bad
Easy+rewarding -> bad
Hard+unrewarding -> bad
Hard+rewarding -> good

gw2 instances aren’t in the good bracket of any of this 2 lists

Are you kidding me? Are you saying that you didn’t enjoy shooting Zhaitan from a zeppelin?

AC is the hardest dungeon the other ones are easy in comparison

Atrocity.5794:

AC is the hardest dungeon the other ones are easy in comparison

Is that the level 50 dungeon?

AllI can say is learn to play.

Blacklight.2871:

So many good replies already. I’ll just add that the main problem is that players have become lazy because they’ve forgotten what challenging content was like. Few games provide a real challenge to players anymore. Lazy, forgiving mechanics have dulled our skills. Just the fact that the term “trash” mob is being used, underlines the point. Other games have trash mobs, which are meant to be cleared on autopilot. They’re just filler between the actual fights. In this game, you’re supposed to approach every encounter carefully. If you think of them as trash, get used to being facerolled.

And this has nothing to do with roles. It has to do with skill, cooperation and communication.

I will agree with the loot though. For this kind of challenging content, the rewards ARE NOT commensurate with the effort.

^ This a million times…I haven’t read through all of the pages, but at least have through the first 3. I’m usually just lurking these kind of forums, but when something like this comes up, it’s hard not to respond. Also, to have some context, I’ve only done AC story and explorable.

The point that Blacklight makes is amazingly simple, yet so much people now a days don’t get a grasp on it. It seems to me, that some people just need a little more dedication. If you like the game, and you want to progress in some specific area, you’ll eventually be good at doing stuff that helps you progress towards that specific area (in dungeons for example: organizing groups of people, making strategies, getting people that know how to use combo fields, support abilities, time knockdowns etc.)…practice makes perfect right ? Well maybe not perfect, but close probably. It’s also a matter of perspective, but the beauty of the whole playing games thing is that our perspective doesn’t matter, it’s the developers perspective that matter, they take us on a journey we could not even imagine in the first place (of course there is room for improvement here and there, but basics should stay, like difficulty and challenge). And that’s how it should be in my opinion. Imagine if books were the same….that would suck…how many people would be complaining to change stuff they didn’t like from their just-bought book ? And to please the masses, the companies do what’s best for their “interests”, which is almost always not in the best of interests of a dedicated gamer, but oh well, that’s another story…..here’s hoping that GW2 doesn’t get dumbed down due to a bunch of complains…I haven’t had this much fun since like Baldur’s Gate II I think…

Of course as some other people and Blacklight as well, I do agree that the rewards we get for the dungeons are a bit lacking, I’ve gotten a few good pieces of armor and a couple of weapons, but still…Oh and the number of tokens…it just seems off.

I agree that dungeons can be way too hard sometimes, like CM for example when you get down to the secret workshop and face a group of 5 silvers with a healer. That kitten is tough. We tried so many tactics and the one we ended up with was: pull the group to their reset point then lock one down and kill it while the rest is walking back. It almost felt like cheating, eventually we rached the end boss and it was so kitten easy, it did less damage compared to silvers in that cave and just stood still.
I’m all for hard dungeons that need tactic and skill (screw casuals, dungeons are for hardcore teams with perfect builds and ventrilo) but please balance (note the “balance” not “make it easier”) out the dungeons a bit so it become more fun. Or els you might as well chance place of bosses and silvers.

This might have been said before but I’m not reading 5 pages to find it so here goes:

There are no tanks since there is no way to always hold aggro or taunt unless you’re the ONLY person attacking the boss. Even then, some bosses and mobs have priorities like attacking people with light armor first, or attacking people with two handers first, etc. The only way you’re a tank is if you’re spec’ed into vitality and anything that’ll give you more health and armor. Other than that though, you’re not a tank.

There are no healers. There are supports. Guardians can use awesome AoE heals but that all goes to crap if you stand in one spot letting the boss wail at you. You have to rely more on your personal heal and your dodging.

Side note: ONLY dodge BIG attacks. You have two dodges before you have to wait for it to recharge so don’t waste it on a small attack. This works with instances, dungeons, or PvE. Just kite the boss or use stuns and cripples while you make your escape if you’re heal is on cooldown and you can’t dodge. If you used up your heal already and can’t dodge and your stuns and cripples are already on cooldown… you just mashed buttons and didn’t manage your skills efficiently.

see your all STILL missing the point. FORCING someone to go into a skill tree they have no desire to use just to do dungeons is going against their own game design. HAVING to build a “balanced” character is still against their own game design. if you want to be a dps class you should be allowed to go full dps without being easily 1 shot in dungeons by normal attacks. having to bring “tanks” and “healers” into dungeons in this game where you supposed to bring “any combinations of the 8 professions” to complete a dungeon. Another complaint I have are where bosses have anywhere from 2-3 attacks that have the same charge up animation how in the hell am I supposed to know which time hes going to use the 1 shot your dead move if they all look the same and I just used my dodge up on 2 weaker attacks? Even if the 1 shot end all has a TINY differerent then I wouldnt complain as much but the LT in AC explore has killed me tons of times becuase i have used my dodge up on his weak attacks when his charge up is exactly the same for all his skills on top of the fact burns cover bosses pretty well so even seeing some of said animations are a challenge. I wont say “dumb down” or “nerf” these dungeons I would just like more target information

Amiron.1067:

I recently did Sorrow’s Embrace in Story Mode with a group of five friends over mumble (ventrilo). ..
Our party consisted of; 2 Ele’s, 1 War, 1 Guard (me), and 1 Thief. ..

(1) One Ele went water to cast healing geysers and rain
(2) while the other went full on offense.
(3) I also took the role of meat shield, utilizing my mace and shield to mitigate most incoming damage, while also throwing out walls of reflection to cause ranged attackers to damage themselves, giving our team breathers.
(4) The thief did what he did best; stabby stabby in the back of enemies.
…
Overall, I enjoy the lack of the “Holy Trinity”. It provides for a much more unpredictable, chaotic and stay-on-your-toes style of dungeon crawling. Kudos to ANet for thinking outside the box.

original quote edited for clarity
(1) Healer
(2) DPS
(3) Tank
(4) DPS
I assume the war was also DPS. I’m not seeing how you’re an athiest or how that’s different from WoW.

Carro.2753:

Doing dungeons on Exploration mode is even worse. Instancing and PvE is the worst balance i have ever seen in a mmo. It’s probably going to improve but as of now i can not even remotely think of anything so bad as GW2 is in pve instances.

Moving around is important too, not just stand around and take punishment, but when someone with a toughness build gets 1shotted by a silver mob, it’s just bad development, not the players fault toughness serves no purpose.

I don’t think the balance is bad. I think it’s just incredibly hard. However, it’s much easier if you’re using voice chat with people you know. I would much rather this than another game in which dungeons are incredibly easy and we get bored instantly.

This game easily gives you the tools you need to burn through dungeons. It’s just finding the right group of people who know how to use them as well as you do.

Dungeons are a joke.

My Experience has been nothing but never ending aggravation from the fact that they apparently decided that to make dungeons hard they just Ramp up the damage the mobs do, and then give them even more ludicrous abilites.

AC Was irritating enough, but then I did Twilight Arbour. I cannot believe they actually think this is good dungeon design-Who on earth think that bosses that can shoot off instant-kill Point Blank AoEs that can summon monsters that spawn poison clouds is even remotely a fair fight.

Mobs that spam knockdown AoEs, Mobs with 5 second fears and snares and poisons, Traps that respawn at an absurd rate-they may as well just put a “Melee need not apply” as a disclaimer in any of these, because you get dropped so fast it’s just ridiculous.

And yes, in before someone tells me I need to micromanage and tweak the kitten out of my character to even be able to live more than 5 seconds in a trash pull with a group of carefully picked party members.

I just wanted to see the bloody story, but the meatgrinder gauntlet of brickwalling designed like it was made 10 years ago with “Make mobs hit like trucks, Dungeon is now hard, mission accomplished!” as their design model all the while giving complete garbage for loot for how much investment is needed, it;s just not worth it.

blink.4239:

kal.4350:

Hard=intelligent enemies and cool tactics -> good
Hard=Lots of hp and damge -> bad

Easy+unrewarding -> bad
Easy+rewarding -> bad
Hard+unrewarding -> bad
Hard+rewarding -> good

gw2 instances aren’t in the good bracket of any of this 2 lists

Are you kidding me? Are you saying that you didn’t enjoy shooting Zhaitan from a zeppelin?

Spoilers you brainless, foaming at the mouth idiot… What a tool.

I skimmed through these posts, and all I can say is, I’m sure glad GW2 has a fleshed out, interesting, and mechanics-rich PvP system (imo) because the PvE dungeons are just flat out catered to leethardcorecarebear kids, i.e. garbage.

Pardon me, I know more than a few of these posts have been in the vein of “I want to help, here’s some helpful information,” and helpful information has been posted. But boiled down, I’ve observed that the holy trinity has just been replaced with “spec your toon for super survivability and spam combos instead of WoW-esque tactics.” Gee, I’m blown away by the innovation here.

AC story mode was my first and last dungeon in this game, I will be living in the Mists and WvWvW (at level 80). Dungeons in other MMOs, for me, have been about a simple entertaining leisure experience, filling out the lore and participating in the rich background the game offers. The dynamic events are AWESOME imo, and though the snooty and elitist raiders looking down their long noses at other posters here who are asking for ENTERTAINMENT vs “accomplishment,” may think these events are zerg fests, I am edified and entertained by the experience. I was hoping that Story Mode was the entertainment version of dungeons, for players like myself, and that Exploration was for the pve sadists who can then brag about how elite they are for spending 2-3hrs clearing AI controlled mobs. No, both modes are just aggravating torture fests, offering a joke of a reward for your pain at the end.

I understand that people think mobs with super high hp that hit for 50% (or one-shot) your toon is “challenge,” that’s great. I don’t want it to rain loot, and I dont care, since this game had the good sense to make a completely separate PvP system where there’s no need for me to raid to be competitive. I don’t do PvP 100% of the time, and would like to experience some of the dungeon content, but that’s just flat out not going to happen in this game for me. Yes, it’s been posted, I don’t have to do dungeons, and that’s exactly what will happen. I still feel it’s a shame though, that this content will be essentially wasted on a small portion of the playerbase; the casual person is not in some decade-old raiding guild, thinks or cares that much about their virtual avatar (i.e. doesn’t care to go that deep with spec/gear/pressing buttons in the right order), or cares to log into a voice chat.

GW2 is a VIDEO GAME. Leisure activity. People thinking that all dungeon content must be, by default, some “proving ground” to separate bads from madskillz, need to reassess their priorities when it comes to PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. Story Mode should be about just that, the story. As it stands, it’s just a method to induce anger, and I’d much rather rage at being outplayed vs a human opponent than some unnecessarily difficult PvE content that’s “hard” for the sake of being hard. Story Mode needs to be tuned down, period.

Grade.1926:

see your all STILL missing the point. FORCING someone to go into a skill tree they have no desire to use just to do dungeons is going against their own game design. HAVING to build a “balanced” character is still against their own game design. if you want to be a dps class you should be allowed to go full dps without being easily 1 shot in dungeons by normal attacks. having to bring “tanks” and “healers” into dungeons in this game where you supposed to bring “any combinations of the 8 professions” to complete a dungeon. Another complaint I have are where bosses have anywhere from 2-3 attacks that have the same charge up animation how in the hell am I supposed to know which time hes going to use the 1 shot your dead move if they all look the same and I just used my dodge up on 2 weaker attacks? Even if the 1 shot end all has a TINY differerent then I wouldnt complain as much but the LT in AC explore has killed me tons of times becuase i have used my dodge up on his weak attacks when his charge up is exactly the same for all his skills on top of the fact burns cover bosses pretty well so even seeing some of said animations are a challenge. I wont say “dumb down” or “nerf” these dungeons I would just like more target information

No, you are missing the point. “Bring any combination to the dungeon” doesn’t mean “build a terrible build and still beat anything!” Part of the game is creating a good build. If any build could do anything, then what is the point of having builds in the first place?

You want to be 100% dps? Go for it. Yes, you will get 1 shot. That’s one of the drawbacks. Every build has advantages and disadvantages.

And that all being said, we have done many dungeons in both story and explore (and especially lots of AC, which people seem to think is the hardest) and we have never once forced anyone into any spec. We also have managed to clear pretty much everything we’ve tried in a max of 2 runs, usually in less than 2-3 hours of total time. Once you know how to play the game it becomes very easy.

I think a few people have alluded to it – its not the difficulty of the dungoens, since challenge is a good thing for organized groups, but the reward or lackthereof that makes them offputting. Aside from being nearly impossible to PUG, the dungeons all require multiple runs to farm tokens needed to by gear that provides no stat advantages whatsoever over the top crafting gear. Worse, the weapons from the first 3 dungoens aren’t even lvl 80 – you’d be getting them for looks and looks alone.

Most people right now need to build gold reserves, not waste time and repair money with difficult instances. There is no need to do them at all, outside of completion, since walking around doing hearts, gathering mats, and crafting (especially crafting) give far too much exp anyway – I was lvl 80 well before I finished the 70-80 areas.

Basically the game gives us three end game gear options – farm PVP, farm instances, farm crafting mats. Because you get a ton of karma from events, which can also be used to buy endgame loot, I see no reason to put myself or my guildmates through the dungeon grind, when I can farm events in Cursed Shore for A TON of mats and lewts (even more with 400 chef magic find buffs on). Not to mention the Influence for your guild. Theres just no good reason to do the instances over the events.

SiNoS.2147:

Very rarely in the groups i’ve been in have we been wiped very fast. I as a support/tanky build guardian get between the mob and my allies and take a good brunt of the damage moving on those shots that will 1 shot me while i keep healing abilities rolling on myself and my group. I also call targets on casters that i know are going to mess us up and make sure the group knows to focus burn whats called. Over all it goes fairly quickly without too much issues. It just takes everyone doing there part and really helps if you have someone playing a tank type role.

Edit: This is story mode btw. I’ve yet to do exploration as i know those are not properly balanced.

Works for me (our group) even in Explorable Mode, except for the second option (Seraph) for CM. Stun – Stunbreak (30 Sec CD) – Instant Re-Stun – AoE – Fear – Daze – AoE – Death. I have no control over my character WHARGBL!

ROMP.9403:

Its kind of you have to learn how to be the holy trinity.

I really like that! A succinct sentence that encapsulates what people need to do.

It has a nice philosophical air to it too, like ‘There is no spoon’

Theres just no good reason to do the instances over the events.

I wonder if that ArenaNet’s goal? Rather than having people off by themselves in an instance, perhaps they wanted people out in the world?

DoctorOverlord.8620:

I wonder if that ArenaNet’s goal? Rather than having people off by themselves in an instance, perhaps they wanted people out in the world?

There’s enough to do both. If AC story is indicative of dungeons overall, they do seem cheesy and tacked-on (perhaps because only 5% of WoW’s population raids). Follow the cues to avoid red circles and dodge boss’ über-attacks or get one-shotted…whoooooo (not the excited Quaggan HoooOOOooo)…I had enough choreography play-along in WoW raids, it’s old. I’m not seeing what’s new or innovative here and I’m not seeing anything that explains such. (I’m not being dismissive; I’m still looking.)

Svenn.5209:

“Bring any combination to the dungeon” doesn’t mean “build a terrible build and still beat anything!” Part of the game is creating a good build. If any build could do anything, then what is the point of having builds in the first place?

I’m not sure I agree—I thought GW2 was supposed to be ‘different’. I thought were were supposed to play our chars and not have to worry about cookie-cutter roles and builds and everyone, no matter the character, can work together victoriously.

Balanced options means to me that there are many viable ways to go about beating our foes—and I agree it would be unreasonable to think that there won’t be many ineffective possibilities too but my exceptions are these:

— I keep seeing tanking as others’ solution to succeed and some with tank+healer (though they deny it)
— I keep seeing “you have to have…” survivability, as in, points must go in toughness, vitality, or both (no glass cannons); rather than “stove-piping” everyone, everyone is homogenized (except for the tank and healer who aren’t tanks or healers ofc) by stove-piping builds
— “L2P”…okay…I like experimenting and some degree of trial/error but I don’t find being punished for it fun but rather a deterrent. My wife was never not convinced that there will be “THE build” for each class, lest you be persona non grata and we seem to be, at least, halfway there. Don’t give me options if its a complete waste of time to exercise them and “good grief, I’m glad that’s over!” isn’t a reward I’m looking for.

Svenn.5209:

You want to be 100% dps? Go for it. Yes, you will get 1 shot. That’s one of the drawbacks. Every build has advantages and disadvantages.

That isn’t a disadvantage, that just eliminates the damage specialist as an option. Really, why bother giving options when one can’t use them?
Tough to survive, sure, fair enough—those with superior Jackie Chan abilities can capitalise on that, but why is impossible necessary?

Alex.9432:

Please do NOT nerf dungeons. Nothing is more fun then spending 3 hours working together to try to defeat an extremely hard encounter.

^^
To a lot of people, the above quoted opinion will make a lot of sense. There are also people who will beg you to get a life.

I’ve run AC quite a few times(story mode) and CM in story mode AND exp.mode.

This is the conclusion I came to:
a) IF(and only IF) the exp.modes are what one might call end game in gw2, then let’s leave it that way. But do lock it down so it can be done only if you are above a certain lvl.
b) If your intention is to help individuals and establish some sort of learning curve for dungeons, then tune AC a bit so people:
* realize that they really need to play properly and as a party
* realize that they have to modify their builds to a more survival centric build
c) Address the issue with the following:
*Loot/Drops
*Repair costs

If you are trying to encourage individuals to get involved in every part of the game you have put effort into, especially dungeons, you need to build some sort of curve into instances, so individuals can ramp up their skill-sets and gameplay.
I’m sure experienced players will not have issues adapting to it within a run or two, however for a lot of others, it might not be that easy.

As for me, a ranger that was focusing on condition based build, the following worked:
a) Ran double bears so pets could survive more than a few hits
b) Ran a few sigils and gave up some survival bleed skills
The simple changes mentioned above made a big diff in my survival.

—Cheers—
Mintyfresh

You know, I’ve been actively following and adding to this thread for days. I’ve read every post, and I have noticed something interesting: All the people on here who like the dungeons as they are have admitted they are difficult for the most part, but have gone on to explain why they like it, and what others could do to make it through. Post strats, builds, etc. and they rarely just shut down the ‘complainers’ for lack of a better word.

However, the ‘complainers’ simply cry NERF IT, without any consideration for the players who are having no issues completing the content and enjoying it as is. At first I looked at this very objectively; I had a rough time the first time in AC Story (PUG), and I sympathize with those who become frustrated by this. That being said, I kept at it, changed what wasn’t working, found what DID work, and now I can mostly stroll through dungeon content. I’ve also said ANYONE can do this, they just need to put some time and effort into it. To sit here and cry about how its impossible (I’ve seen this word many times in this thread) is absolutely an exercize in futility. It is simply NOT IMPOSSIBLE. People are completing this all over the world, all classes and races, every day, and as we speak. How then is it impossible? Nobody likes to say “its possible, but I can’t do it,” so they cry and winge instead.

Oh, man, and this thing about Glass Cannons (another example of a phrase overused in this thread). Why does everyone think they can roll all DPS and not deserve to be one shot? Its in the name, for goodness’ sake! GLASS cannon, I mean, come on. Why people think they should be able to DO tons of damage, and TAKE tons of damage at the same time, is beyond me. Lets just give you guys ALL the DPS, and ALL the HP and damage mitigation. This way you guys can just stroll through the dungeon with your thumbs up your ‘butts’ and get all the loot, without a repair bill. Then you can get ALL the tokens, and ALL the Legendary items, and then you WIN GW2! This sounds like a really fun game, where do I sign up? Then I can go on the forums and cry about how EVERYONE has the ‘Legendary’ items, and the content is a breeze and a joke to clear, and end-game is unchallenging and pointless. Then you guys can post, telling me to go play GW2 if I want a fun, challenging game…

Backing off the sarcasm a bit…many people, myself included, have posted helpful tips in here. Few of us are saying L2P and ending the post. We’re TRYING to help you guys figure this stuff out, but we can’t play for you (as much as we may like to!). Instead of spending your time thinking up new ways to say “It’s too hard! SADFACE” you guys should be paying attention to what we’re saying. I will close with a sampling of some of the good advice currently being wasted here:

• LEARN YOUR CLASS – ALL the skills, NOT just the ones that you’re used to using in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SETTING, ie. open world PvE

• CLEAR COMMUNICATION – I’m not sure why this even needs to be said, but trying to 5-man-zerg a dungeon is simply not in this game’s design. You need to discuss strategy with your team, and offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice

• USE GAME MECHANICS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE – Mobs do not normally respawn when killed. Call your targets, focus fire, and burn them down. There is no tank holding aggro here, everyone needs to ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE

• AVOID TUNNEL VISION – Pay attention to everything going on, not just what directly effects you. This is a team environment, and everyone needs to have good combat awareness, and be ready to help where its needed, WHEN its needed

• USE LINE OF SIGHT – See that attack coming, but no energy to dodge? Get behind a pillar, a staircase, whatever. Pull mobs to where YOU want them, don’t go to them if you can help it. Use CHOKE POINTS where you can, kite mobs up stairs then drop off, etc.

• SKILL COMBOS!! – I personally am not awesome with these as yet, but I still clear the dungeons. WITH combos, it could only get better. I agree, combos are kind of an advanced mechanic, but it gets easier with time and practice.

• FIND THE STRAT / WORLD ITEMS – Every encounter has a strategy that can or has to be used to defeat the enemy. Study, think, find it. Google it if you have to. If you see an item laying around, like a BOULDER, its there for a reason.

• HAVE FUN – Nobody is forcing you to complete this content. If its not fun for you, do something you DO enjoy. Dungeons are there for a challenge, and designed for a SOLID group of 5 to enjoy at END GAME. There are few if any ACTUAL upgrades there for you; the loot is mostly geared towards GRAPHIC ENHANCEMENTS. If you have a sword that works, and you don’t care what it looks like, there’s no reason to go do a dungeon.

Ralcore.9354:

However, the ‘complainers’ simply cry NERF IT, without any consideration for the players who are having no issues completing the content and enjoying it as is. At first I looked at this very objectively; I had a rough time the first time in AC Story (PUG), and I sympathize with those who become frustrated by this. That being said, I kept at it, changed what wasn’t working, found what DID work, and now I can mostly stroll through dungeon content. I’ve also said ANYONE can do this, they just need to put some time and effort into it. To sit here and cry about how its impossible (I’ve seen this word many times in this thread) is absolutely an exercize in futility. It is simply NOT IMPOSSIBLE. People are completing this all over the world, all classes and races, every day, and as we speak. How then is it impossible? Nobody likes to say “its possible, but I can’t do it,” so they cry and winge instead.

You’re missing the point. Story Mode should be STORY MODE. I know, your delicate sensibilities are offended that humans want to be entertained by video games, that we should instead, during our leisure activity, be forced to work for our fun, like in real life. We should put “time and effort” into something that should be effortless i.e. relaxation. We should bleed and sweat for pixels, because that’s what the hardcore do, so, therefore the rest of the casual masses should behave the same.

What a load of elitist nonsense. You can have Exploration for your great video game accomplishments, but for the rest and vast majority of the playerbase that log into this game to yes, just mash buttons and gasp have a good time, there should be an ez mode dungeon option. Yes, I know, we’re all bads because we don’t care that deeply about pixels and super accurate gameplay, and just want to rollface through some content. No doubt, as posted by others before across every MMO forum, we’re all uniformly children that want something for nothing, and someone here will post some meaningless, non-related example on how VIDEO GAMES are an example of the deplorable state of humanity. Oh wait, that happened already.

Pull your head out. It’s a game. There’s an option for your superultrahardmode where raiders can peen about how awesome they are for doing nothing but speccing survivability and pressing buttons in a better order than others, that option should be the explorable modes. I wanted story out of Story mode and all I got was frustration (yes, I managed to actually finish AC with a pug, when the party bugs didn’t turn up).

Consider that most people play video games for fun. Digital leisure activity should NOT be something someone has to “put in time and effort” for, generally. I’m not advocating removing content, or nerfing your superhardmode, but Story Mode should be far more simple than it is currently.

@Ralcore.9354
I think you are doing disservice to yourself by including sarcasm in your commentary, especially due to the fact that you do make some very valid points.

However, a lot of individuals are bringing up valid reasons for finding dungeons distasteful (and are also as making points that are as valid).

I believe(and this is an opinion) that there are a lot of people who are playing a game like this(which lacks the holy trinity) for the first time.

So what I’m advocating for is the following:
a) Leave the experience modes alone. Let them be the challenge.
b) Tune the first dungeon a bit so people can gain a better understanding of the system/dungeon/gameplay/personal role and ramp it up as you get introduced to new ones.

The reason I say this is for the following reason:
If you introduce players to dungeons in such a crude fashion, it’s bound to turn a lot of new and old players away from them, since you need a group that can not only communicate but also coordinate properly.

If such a system is introduced gradually with increasing difficulty, I think it’ll be much better received by the player-base.

With the current system, if you have even a couple of subpar people in your group, it becomes a massive challenge..yes, you can carry the group as much as you bloody like, but with 2 people dropping the group due to frustration as they are getting oneshotted by traps…it becomes more of a pain for me than them.

BobF.3509

You’re missing the point. Story Mode should be STORY MODE. I know, your delicate sensibilities are offended that humans want to be entertained by video games, that we should instead, during our leisure activity, be forced to work for our fun, like in real life. We should put “time and effort” into something that should be effortless i.e. relaxation. We should bleed and sweat for pixels, because that’s what the hardcore do, so, therefore the rest of the casual masses should behave the same.

What a load of elitist nonsense. You can have Exploration for your great video game accomplishments, but for the rest and vast majority of the playerbase that log into this game to yes, just mash buttons and gasp have a good time, there should be an ez mode dungeon option. Yes, I know, we’re all bads because we don’t care that deeply about pixels and super accurate gameplay, and just want to rollface through some content. No doubt, as posted by others before across every MMO forum, we’re all uniformly children that want something for nothing, and someone here will post some meaningless, non-related example on how VIDEO GAMES are an example of the deplorable state of humanity. Oh wait, that happened already.

Pull your head out. It’s a game. There’s an option for your superultrahardmode where raiders can peen about how awesome they are for doing nothing but speccing survivability and pressing buttons in a better order than others, that option should be the explorable modes. I wanted story out of Story mode and all I got was frustration (yes, I managed to actually finish AC with a pug, when the party bugs didn’t turn up).

Consider that most people play video games for fun. Digital leisure activity should NOT be something someone has to “put in time and effort” for, generally. I’m not advocating removing content, or nerfing your superhardmode, but Story Mode should be far more simple than it is currently.

I’m not missing any points, but perhaps making a point different than yours. Also, my post stayed away from being offensive or confrontational, but I suppose its a bit unrealistic to expect everyone to maintain the same standard…

Nobody is saying you HAVE to do ANYTHING. I don’t like to bleed and sweat for anything, I play on my couch with my keyboard in my lap, game on the 40". Hardly what I would call a hardcore gaming situation going on there. I also have a full time job, and am way too tired when I get home to do anything requiring a lot of mental focus. So, I don’t do dungeons until the weekend, or my day off. That is how I do it, and it works for me. Nowhere do I tell anyone to do anything other than what they want to do.

What I do is offer solutions to people’s issues, specific to completing GW2 dungeon content. This thread is full of positive feedback, tips, and suggestions. What you are doing is listing your OPINIONS. Its your OPINION that Story Mode should be “easy mode” and its your OPINION that anyone who puts time and effort into a game is an Elitist.

You’re of course welcome to discuss your OPINION that Story mode should be easier, but I see no reason to be so derogatory. Those of us on this thread who have completed these dungeons are on here to help those who as yet have not, for the most part. If you don’t see that, and can take nothing away from this thread other than to use it as a sounding board for your own opinions and negative ranting, then you in fact are the one missing the point my friend. Either way, good luck to you in your endeavors.

Just a side note, anyone is free to send me a tell or a mail in-game for help with any of the dungeons, or any content I am familiar with. Good gaming!

Actually, professional gaming already exists, so there are people who work in videogames, man.

Rolo.9248:

I’m not sure I agree—I thought GW2 was supposed to be ‘different’. I thought were were supposed to play our chars and not have to worry about cookie-cutter roles and builds and everyone, no matter the character, can work together victoriously.

Balanced options means to me that there are many viable ways to go about beating our foes—and I agree it would be unreasonable to think that there won’t be many ineffective possibilities too but my exceptions are these:

— I keep seeing tanking as others’ solution to succeed and some with tank+healer (though they deny it)
— I keep seeing “you have to have…” survivability, as in, points must go in toughness, vitality, or both (no glass cannons); rather than “stove-piping” everyone, everyone is homogenized (except for the tank and healer who aren’t tanks or healers ofc) by stove-piping builds

You do not have to have any sort of “tanking”. In fact, in some of my most successful groups we simply bounced the mobs around between players to spread out the damage. The most important thing is control; whether it’s a combination of various CC (any combination of blinds, stuns/knockdowns, weakness, etc, tons of choices here), kiting, bouncing the boss around, avoiding damage (dodge rolls/aegis/protection), etc. You have plenty of options on how to not die, but this is definitely the most important thing to figure out.

Again, options doesn’t mean “everything works all the time always”. It means there will be some that work better than others in different situations. It means that if you toss together an awful build (and I’m generalizing) then it will be tougher for you, though still not likely IMPOSSIBLE. Part of the challenge is creating more effective builds. This doesn’t mean there are only a couple viable builds, it just means that you will have an easier time with some builds. As I mentioned before, we have never made anyone spec into a certain build for a dungeon and we have never run into a problem.

Rolo.9248:

That isn’t a disadvantage, that just eliminates the damage specialist as an option. Really, why bother giving options when one can’t use them?
Tough to survive, sure, fair enough—those with superior Jackie Chan abilities can capitalise on that, but why is impossible necessary?

You do not HAVE to have points in toughness, vitality, or healing in order to succeed. People are offering these up as suggestions for those who are having trouble, because it can make things easier. I have a friend who is exclusively power, precision, crit and he runs dungeons with us fine. Can he take a hit? Of course not, but he finds other ways to survive… knowing when to dodge/stay out of the way of most attacks or kiting usually, along with some CC like blind, works well enough for him. The problem is glass cannon is a build that is simply harder to play well.

BobF.3509:

You’re missing the point. Story Mode should be STORY MODE. I know, your delicate sensibilities are offended that humans want to be entertained by video games, that we should instead, during our leisure activity, be forced to work for our fun, like in real life. We should put “time and effort” into something that should be effortless i.e. relaxation. We should bleed and sweat for pixels, because that’s what the hardcore do, so, therefore the rest of the casual masses should behave the same.

I don’t find simple button mashing very much fun or relaxing, just boring. I do find a good challenge enjoyable though, and dungeons are the only place for that. I simply do not believe that video games should be “effortless”. It is also not about being “forced to work for your fun”. I don’t feel like I’m working for anything, I feel like I’m having fun overcoming challenges. If it was all effortless and without a challenge then you’d just be mindlessly hacking away to the point you might as well be vegging out in front of a TV or something. What’s the point of it being interactive? Also, story mode doesn’t mean easy mode. Story and challenging are not opposites.

What I’m seeing is that people who don’t enjoy a good challenge are crying foul and wanting dungeons to be nerfed. You don’t see those of us who enjoy a challenge saying “The rest of the game is too easy! Make the hearts/events harder!” You can have those, most of the game is ridiculously easy. Dungeons are the only thing those of us who want a challenge have, and it’s a small part of the game. Even just dropping down the difficulty on story mode is removing a quarter of the content that we truly enjoy.

Of course, I would argue that story mode is already too easy in most cases. Your first steps into AC are going to be rough, sure. Once you figure out how dungeons work though (which should take a few hours max as people learn how to dodge/CC/stay alive) the dungeons just become really easy to do.

Ralcore.9354:

Why does everyone think they can roll all DPS and not deserve to be one shot?

Maybe those silly folks thought—I don’t know—that they had the option.
They probably also foolishly thought that story mode dungeons wouldn’t be raid-like-difficulty with raid-requirements when there’s explorable mode for that.

I mostly agree with BobF with the exception that “time and effort” is enjoyable to many—people who want to game (like Chess is a game) versus people who want to be entertained via the 21st century boob tube (like yelling at the Wheel of Fortune contestant for not figuring it out yet).

I agree with Mintyfresh (heh) that there should be a better bridge between regular PvE/story and story dungeons to facilitate the player having the correct paradigm beyond one NPC stating that it is “difficult” and requires a group (implying that if you have a group per Anet’s manifesto that any character can successfully play with any other character(s) then you’re good to go).

I’d say it’s more of a presentation issue, less a difficulty issue.; however, personally, I would prefer a learning curve rather than a learning brick wall and that would entail adjusting earlier difficulties or adding earlier dungeons (i.e. at levels 10 and 20).

I would argue, though, that story mode shouldn’t be too difficult for the masses because it is the story and I would suggest that keeping part of the story from the majority isn’t a good, fun design. I’m not suggesting making it facerollable but it shouldn’t be hard mode/elite content either. (Why must there only be “easy” or “hard”? There’s a continuum here…)

As far as AC story is concerned, I will assert that its design is poor. One example is that the trash mobs (beginning with the first encounter) were far more difficult than the bosses, with the final supposedly big-bad boss being an anticlimactic faceroll. And our PUG wasn’t very good, waypoint Zerging a few times.

re: Svenn’s reply. My observations are based on what folks have suggested/how they completed dungeons where one infers that one must spec a certain way and have a tank and a healer and my experience (so far, mind you) doesn’t disagree with that since one-shotting seems to be a GM favourite, requiring boosted vitality/toughness since dodge-rolling is limited and doesn’t avoid large AoE and kiting (not fun for me BTW) is ineffective since every-flippin’-thing runs (almost teleports) faster than I no matter how speed-boosted I am (air). Then we have the camera angles…

I wouldn’t mind that so much if we could respec as easily as in GW1 but GW2 isn’t designed that way, implying that any trait setup would be effective all-around with dynamic skill selection for different areas. And maybe armour-switching but that’s a little over the top.