Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: I have read the wiki page!

I want to know why monsters will just chase me down, even though I’m not doing the most damage and am not the closest one to them. They will not leave me alone in some cases, and i can even get out of their attack range but once i re-enter, they resume hitting me.

I can’t figure this out and would love to know how to avoid aggro more as a light armor class.

I believe the aggro mechanics depend on the monster’s AI. From what I understand different monsters have different ways of calculating what they prefer to attack. Some monsters will prefer to attack squishies (lowest armor rating), while others seem to prefer to attack those who do the highest amount of combined DPS on the mob they’re with and still others like to hit the ones that are applying boons to their teammates. As an engineer I do find myself being targeted quite a lot by certain bosses (like The Mossman). It’s comical how far out of the way that some bosses and mobs will go to try and kill me and I use that to my advantage by kiting them for the team and letting the team do the majority of DPS, while applying self-heals, team-heals, buffs, and rear attacks on whatever is chasing me.

The way some (perhaps all) enemies determine aggro seems to change over time as well, it can do one thing during one encounter and another thing the next time you encounter the same enemy.

I like how the aggro is somewhat unpredictable though, helps keep everyone on their toes since you don’t know if the boss will just hate you and you alone for an entire fight or he might leave you alone entirely, or he might switch back and forth, I love it, it’s more exciting than predictable aggro.

It is pretty easy; mobs go for the character with highest Toughness. So adding Toughness on a squishy character in hopes of surviving better actually has the opposite effect, ironically. That is the one rule of aggro that will generally always work.

After Toughness, profession seems to play a part. Guardians/Warriors have an easier time getting aggro compared to Engineers/Rangers/Thieves, who in turn have easier time getting aggro compared to Mesmers/Elementalists/Necromancers.

You also have mobs which have their own special aggro rules. The best example here are the Bandit Riflemen in CM exploration; they are total opposite in that they will go for the squishiest target in range and will almost never retaliate when hit in melee if there are ranged targets available.

Lastly you have equipment based aggro; melee weapons will draw more aggro than ranged in general, and a shield will give you even more on top of that.

Oglaf.1074:

It is pretty easy; mobs go for the character with highest Toughness. So adding Toughness on a squishy character in hopes of surviving better actually has the opposite effect, ironically. That is the one rule of aggro that will generally always work.

After Toughness, profession seems to play a part. Guardians/Warriors have an easier time getting aggro compared to Engineers/Rangers/Thieves, who in turn have easier time getting aggro compared to Mesmers/Elementalists/Necromancers.

You also have mobs which have their own special aggro rules. The best example here are the Bandit Riflemen in CM exploration; they are total opposite in that they will go for the squishiest target in range and will almost never retaliate when hit in melee if there are ranged targets available.

Lastly you have equipment based aggro; melee weapons will draw more aggro than ranged in general, and a shield will give you even more on top of that.

This confuses me greatly…

I’m an Elementalist (supposedly one of the last targeted professions)
I use a Staff (supposedly one of the least aggro drawing weapons)
And while I do add toughness on some builds I go completely glass cannon (ie 916 toughness and vitality at level 80) for a month and see no difference in aggro rate.

I tend to pull aggro away from any profession I’m fighting with (whether they’re also all ranged or there’s Warriors trying to hundred blade an enemy and guardians with shields whacking them with a mace). I see this happen in multiple zones across multiple enemy types AND in various dungeons.

I’m not trying to say that your list is completely wrong it just makes absolutely no sense given my situation… and if I had anything to offer as reason why your list is just odd it’s prolly because one of my builds gives my character over 3k in attack with a 62% crit chance.

To the OP – ignoring the fact that damage is a source of aggro seems to be the norm among players for some reason – I suggest not following that thought process myself…

Are you sure those guys have lots of Toughness? Plenty of glasscannons Warriors and even Guardians around. I run an Elementalist with all damage gear and 0 Toughness and unless I’m up against something that is designed to attack me (freaking Riflemen, I hate you!) I never ever pull aggro of proper Warriors/Guardians.

I’ve also tested this a lot. I have a Warrior buddy with the same build as me, except he runs with Emerald accessories and I use Ruby: he draws all the aggro because that extra Toughness from his accessories makes him a tastier target than me. Should we switch, I would draw all the aggro instead.

Oglaf.1074:

Are you sure those guys have lots of Toughness? Plenty of glasscannons Warriors and even Guardians around. I run an Elementalist with all damage gear and 0 Toughness and unless I’m up against something that is designed to attack me (freaking Riflemen, I hate you!) I never ever pull aggro of proper Warriors/Guardians.

I’ve also tested this a lot. I have a Warrior buddy with the same build as me, except he runs with Emerald accessories and I use Ruby: he draws all the aggro because that extra Toughness from his accessories makes him a tastier target than me. Should we switch, I would draw all the aggro instead.

Oglaf.1074:

After Toughness, profession seems to play a part. Guardians/Warriors have an easier time getting aggro compared to Engineers/Rangers/Thieves, who in turn have easier time getting aggro compared to Mesmers/Elementalists/Necromancers.

I get less aggro when I have no toughness, and because I’m an Ele – according to your original post.

Base toughness for all classes at level 80 is 916, so when I say I have 916 toughness everyone else has either that or higher. Whether they invest in it or not – according to you they should by profession draw more aggro as well.

So either a) toughness plays no part… or b) the priority you listed of professions plays no part. There’s also c) both are incorrect… but I can honestly say I don’t go out and test these things.

All I do know, is I drag aggro off everyone. It’s not because I have toughness, possibly because I am squishy but I can’t confirm that… and highly likely because I deal S*** tons of damage.

Test it.

Create a lvl 1 Warrior/Guardian and have a Mesmer/Necro/Elementalist both walk into the same aggro range; the mob will initially target the Heavy armor profession.

Then create get two Heavy armor professions and load one with Toughness and walk into aggro range of the same mob; the one with Toughness will be the initial target.

As I said though, A LOT of mobs have their own special aggro rules. This is how it works for me and my friends. Why it apparently doesn’t for you, I don’t know.

Oglaf.1074:

Test it.

Create a lvl 1 Warrior/Guardian and have a Mesmer/Necro/Elementalist both walk into the same aggro range; the mob will initially target the Heavy armor profession.

Then create get two Heavy armor professions and load one with Toughness and walk into aggro range of the same mob; the one with Toughness will be the initial target.

As I said though, A LOT of mobs have their own special aggro rules. This is how it works for me and my friends. Why it apparently doesn’t for you, I don’t know.

… Have you not considered that perhaps level 1 zones will have all the mobs coded to target higher hit point pools so as to not make people quit scholar professions from the get go?

Take your tests to level 80 – where fights actually depend on an aggro based system to succeed. If at level 80 Guardians initally take aggro over Elementalists then great, you’ve proven that Guardians take aggro before Scholars. Just because they’re Guardians doesn’t mean they will hold aggro – just because they have toughness doesn’t mean they will hold aggro. Basing your tests off level 1 mobs is the reason you have such ludicrous fantasies…

If you come back having tested these things at level 10, 20, 30, 80… I would be more likely to listen to your opinons. Now that I know all you test is at level 1, your potential credibility is gone…

i do find that the plants in TA target me with their aoe much more often than others.

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Oglaf.1074:

Test it.

Create a lvl 1 Warrior/Guardian and have a Mesmer/Necro/Elementalist both walk into the same aggro range; the mob will initially target the Heavy armor profession.

Then create get two Heavy armor professions and load one with Toughness and walk into aggro range of the same mob; the one with Toughness will be the initial target.

As I said though, A LOT of mobs have their own special aggro rules. This is how it works for me and my friends. Why it apparently doesn’t for you, I don’t know.

… Have you not considered that perhaps level 1 zones will have all the mobs coded to target higher hit point pools so as to not make people quit scholar professions from the get go?

Take your tests to level 80 – where fights actually depend on an aggro based system to succeed. If at level 80 Guardians initally take aggro over Elementalists then great, you’ve proven that Guardians take aggro before Scholars. Just because they’re Guardians doesn’t mean they will hold aggro – just because they have toughness doesn’t mean they will hold aggro. Basing your tests off level 1 mobs is the reason you have such ludicrous fantasies…

If you come back having tested these things at level 10, 20, 30, 80… I would be more likely to listen to your opinons. Now that I know all you test is at level 1, your potential credibility is gone…

Who says I haven’t tested it properly in high level settings? I have, and I said so a few posts ago. The test I suggested was simply the easiest one with less effort required.

Two level 80 Warriors. Same Traits and equipment – except – one has Toughness on Accessories while one hasn’t. The one with Toughness will be targeted. Done multiple dungeons of all level scales and that has been the norm, except with mobs with their own aggro rules. When he goes down, the mobs target me before all other non-Soldier players.

EDIT: This is what the Wiki lists as reasons for aggro:

Player is using a Shield
Player has higher Toughness/Armour
Player is within close proximity
Player is is attacking the mob
Player deals high amounts of damage


Which pretty much confirms what I’ve said all along. Are you using Daggers or a Staff? Dagger/Dagger seems to be a dangerous combo considering that both range and damage plays a part, I suppose.

I usually find they aggro the strongest closest person. As a ranger, I usually draw aggro when I get close and deal a lot of damage. That part of the code is probably something like aggro_chance=damage/distance. I’m sure life and toughness play into it too, but I’m not sure how. It’s also puzzling how they change aggro targets, seemingly randomly.

I would like to see some sort of AI update to account for usefulness. Like if a boss is chasing someone for 10 minutes and unable to hit them, they change targets to someone they actually can hit.

Geez, there’s no reason to put Oglaf on trial. He was just putting his experience out there. Nothing to take offense with.

I might switch a couple of toughness jewels for vitality jewels to see if this has any effect.

One place that bugs me is in the Claw fight. The vet elementals on either edge of the cliff seem to fire their ice missiles at me no matter how many golems, npcs, other players are walking right by them. The range on them is probably 1500 and if I leave range, it remembers me. I wish it would spread around because I can’t even move forward to attack the pillars a lot of the time. 3 of those and I’m downed. That’s with my MF gear that has 43 toughness + no tough traits.

I have a feeling they have special aggro that attacks a certain area preferrably.

I have 20 pts in both earth and water (elementalist), my toughness i think is around 2,036. I don’t know if that’s good or not… But I constantly get and keep aggro to the point that people tell me to stay away from them.

I’ll repost it then, since “some” people don’t want to read my more elaborate post(s) in this thread. Things that draw aggro:

Player is using a Shield
Player has high Toughness/Armour
Player is within close proximity
Player is is attacking the mob
Player deals high amounts of damage

So a high Toughness Soldier, hitting a mob in melee range with a Shield equipped “should” have no problem holding aggro.

Those are not the only reasons. I have, for example been targeted by the dredge powersuit for simply dropping buffs/heals on my teammates via elixirs while running buckets — or firing a single shot of my rifle at it, even though the other teammates are being far more aggressive whereas a minority of other bucket runners can get away with firing shots while running buckets

Mossman seems to prioritize (1) guys that are down (2) guys that are healing guys that are down or defeated (3) me because I throw grenades at him and his wolves. Despite meeting none of those criteria — or not meeting it as ‘hard’ as my teammates. Ashym’s squire (Charr Fractal) also seems to have similar mechanics of beating on the weak and downed players and the people healing them.

Legendary archdiviner doesnt have any predictable aggro mechanic that I find. He switches targets very often and seems to slightly prefer to hit things in proximity to himself and doesnt really care much about finishing off downed guys.

Those are the ones I know because I fight them so often, so I know how their aggro rotation works more or less. So it seems to fall outside of those reasons. Generally though it seems that enemies seem to prefer a type of aggro mechanic that others dont. I could pull a big mob in the charr fractal and so long as there are tanks to intercept them they will stop caring at all about me and attack the tanks right away whereas a boss like Mossman will be much more tenacious (while still getting quick jabs in on close players).

sigh

How many times to I have to repeat myself? Those are just general aggro rules for your average trash mob. A lot of mobs have their own special set of aggro rules – which makes GW2’s gameplay a lot more exciting than most MMORPGs. And sometimes incredibly frustrating!

I’ve probably mentioned the CM Explore Riflemen and their phobia of melee and heavy armour targets three or four times in this thread.

Something else that the Wiki doesn’t touch upon, but that I’ve noticed quite a lot is that ressing a downed/dead player draws quite a bit of aggro. As a Warrior, if I bend down to pick up another player who got downed in melee with a mob, sure enough that same mob will spin around and smack me in the face for ressing that fella.

Clark Skinner.4902:

Geez, there’s no reason to put Oglaf on trial. He was just putting his experience out there. Nothing to take offense with.

The suggestion to take test of aggro at level 1 base is enough to take offense with. No serious gamer would ever do something like that – the aggro system is put in place to determine which player character a mob will try to kill based on several factors. At level 1 none of those factors have a chance to take place because everything dies in 1-3 hits.

Testing these things is a serious deal and those who come up with such ludicrous tests shouldn’t be trusted. All he seems to care about is the initial target that’s chosen by a mob which just goes to show his warrior/guardians friends probably take that first step into aggro everytime.

If he wants to prove toughness as a factor make a tanky scholar and a glassy heavy, see which one gets attacked throughout the fight not initially… his tests are all one sided BS as is.

It seems he has gotten your aggro. XD

Now you’re just being a troll, Mr unpronounceable-account-name.

Toughness sounds legit, as a defense-orientated warrior (people seem to get upset by the word “tank”) I usually maintain a mobs aggro, and a boss will rarely deviate away. However I find as soon as I’m out of melee range, it will switch to the nearest target instead of pursuing me (usually due to being knocked back.) Granted different AI’s act differently, Ascalonian ghosts for instance. Once a ranger fires regular attacks at you, he will rarely change, and will chase you everywhere, however his projectile trap will always be thrown at a different person to the one he’s shooting at. Necro’s seem to alternate regularly, which makes them easy to take down when he’s outnumbered, etc, etc.

Oh don’t get me started on the Rangers in AC! They’re are programmed to be such… poo-poo heads, lol

You roll towards them to avoid their arrows and bang! Boot to the head and you go flying out of melee range again, usually followed by a Crippling/Poisoned arrow before you get back on your feet!

Oglaf.1074:

Oh don’t get me started on the Rangers in AC! They’re are programmed to be such… poo-poo heads, lol

You roll towards them to avoid their arrows and bang! Boot to the head and you go flying out of melee range again, usually followed by a Crippling/Poisoned arrow before you get back on your feet!

I’m trying to solo them as an ele, avoiding each strike, even a tank can’t hold out against thousands of damage with each shot. And I have to say its pretty funny to see them knock themselves over with reflect projectiles.

From an interview with Colin Johanson in 2011:

“Q: How the AI of enemies will work? Specifically, how enemies will chose their target? Will they be capable of complex behaviour and combat strategies?

…. In regards to AI and aggro… simple creatures will use an AI system to determine who attack, and one of the most important criteria will be who is the closest target to them, but there are also criteria like who’s doing damage, how much damage they’ve done… and other things like that. These are basic things that most creatures would use. Then there will be unique AI for a number of different creatures that will use specific skills or the entire creatures will do different things than that. There may be creatures, for example, who attack the furthest away player in the party. There may be creatures who try to focus on people wearing medium armor or light armor, and try to chase them around. …."

http://gw2ita.wordpress.com/review/interview-with-colin-johanson-by-mmorpgitalia-and-gw2-italian-blog/

You can do a lot of testing or guessing, but the truth is that this is about as much information Anet has given on the subject. By purpose, there is no solid answer to keep you on your toes.

So, to answer the OP, it depends. It depends on what mob you are fighting and who you are (and what you are doing). Keep your head in the game. Don’t let your guard down. And expect your the (next) target.

Oglaf.1074:

Now you’re just being a troll, Mr unpronounceable-account-name.

People who mislead others in the Players Helping Players subforum deserve to be trolled…

You have a Warrior friend and a scholar class, get your friend to go crit signet build while your scholar goes toughness to the max. Let your scholar go in and attack mobs (at various levels) and the warrior with the rifle use the Kill Shot skill (which can in PvP builds do damage of 15k)

If the mob keeps aggroing your scholar instead of the one doing damage I have absolutely no problem apologizing (and even backing your suggestions in the future). If you who was so willing to test this in the first place are too scared to prove your theory now, then why should I not be questioning you all this time?

And before you ask why I don’t just do this, you can look to my previous posts and ask yourself if you think I actually have friends in the first place. All I know is I do damage out the oiseau and have a hard time ever finding anyone who can hold aggro from mobs off of me (even when I have 0 buff to toughness).

Oglaf.1074:

I’ll repost it then, since “some” people don’t want to read my more elaborate post(s) in this thread. Things that draw aggro:

Player is using a Shield
Player has high Toughness/Armour
Player is within close proximity
Player is is attacking the mob
Player deals high amounts of damage

So a high Toughness Soldier, hitting a mob in melee range with a Shield equipped “should” have no problem holding aggro.

I guess I’m having trouble understanding where you’re getting information from. You’re talking like the list above is in order of importance…. ok… but, this is the list on the official wiki:

“The aggro table of a hostile NPC changes dynamically depending on a number of factors, in order of importance [citation needed] :

closest target to them
who is dealing damage
top damage dealers
who is using a shield / has more toughness and overall armor
others (see Tanking tactics below) "

Where is your list from? Seems to me the one I’ve just pasted above is in an entirely different order than yours.

Not trying to start something here. I’m just wanting to clear up my confusion.

~S

ETA for clarity sake, the ‘Others’ in the list are about kiting and reviving. Nothing to do with ‘tankiness’ as such.