Guild Wars 2

Sometimes it feels like the game is designed around healers existing. On my Necromancer, I can literally auto-attack a mob once and it will sometimes NEVER get off me. There can be a huge zerg on it and it will continue chasing me until I die. Then when I res and come back, it gets back on me immediately.

It’s not damage or recent damage. Earlier I auto-attacked a mob a bit, detargeted it, and watched. The mob did not get off me even though I hadn’t attacked it in 30+ seconds. It refused to change to anyone in the group attacking it.

Why is this? What is keeping mobs glued to me?

It’s not a big deal with melee mobs because I can kite those, even though it’s a bit silly that I’m the only one that ends up kiting on dungeon runs. But when I get a ranged mob on me, it’s a matter of time until I run out of cooldowns and Life Force and die.

It’s worth noting I have a lot of toughness (1900). Maybe that’s keeping mobs on me. But if that’s the case, then that would imply the game is designed around someone tanking the mob at almost all times, which doesn’t sound like what ArenaNet promised.

[EDIT] I just took a look at the Wiki entry for aggro (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro), and I’m pretty sure it’s completely wrong. The fact people can die, res, run back to a boss, and immediately get aggro (this happens constantly to my friends and me) means this part in particular has to be wrong: “As a consequence, to lose aggro, the player moves to be further from the NPC than other players or allies and ceases all attacks. A typically effective Guild Wars 2 technique to lose aggro is to roll away (dodge) from the hostile NPC. This is based on the fact that the distance travelled away from the hostile NPC by rolling is greater than the distance a player could run in the same amount of time. … NPCs that cannot target a player nor find a path to a position where they can target the player will quickly cancel all aggro towards this player.”

I could be wrong but I believe there’s no fixed aggro mechanic and that it’s in each monster’s AI script. Some will prefer melee, some glue on the first who attacked them, some prefer low-armor target, some deaggro when you dodge, etc.

Okay, so the Wiki is completely wrong. That’s kind of a bummer. It should probably be edited to reflect that its rules rarely apply.

It’s kinda fun if you think about it. It’s not nearly as predictable as aggro, but it’s not completely random either. You have to actually use seat of your pants judgement.

I don’t think the Wiki is completely wrong, but the idea that each mob treats all the factors that it discusses differently, kinda means anything could happen. The wiki’s information still gives you the avenues you should try.

I know it sounds crazy but monster seems to be have artificial intelligence, every time I start a leap move, the stun me, they don’t run trying to get that ranger that does the most dps, they hit what they can, instead of running in circle after that range. They gang the same player to take him down faster. It may seems annoying sometime but kitten makes the game interesting.

I’ve been finding lately that whoever attacks the mob first will usually keep aggro the longest. All other factors seem to only have a minor effect.

This is just an anecdotal observation, so take it with a grain of salt.

No-one knows for sure, but it’s probably a mix of a modified GW1 system and monster-specific AI.

First the creature rolls a 20 sided pair of dice. If the number is even and the moon is in winter solstice, they then draw a random card from a deck of 754 and divide that by the number of players in the zone.

The creature then judges you by visual looks and decides if you remind them of their mother, if you do and they have a mommy complex they then attack you. If not and you are wearing yellow and it’s not a Tuesday, then you are safe.

Or something like that….

random agro. i got target locked even when im downed and there was a party mate centimeters away from the mob and i was like inches away.

It’s random.

Just put on Yakity Sax and have at it.

I find the aggro both hilarious and frustrating – hilarious when it’s just silly that I, the Engineer, am being chased by every hostile in the encounter, get priority attention from bosses, etcetera, but the Guardian running with me can go an entire battle with a Champion Ice Wurm without getting aggro (or at least directly attacked) a single time while I run around the thing in circles, and frustrating when I’m being pursued by dungeon (henceforth: shorthand for ludicrous HP and high damage) mobs that can half-kill me with a single attack, causing me to die way more often than makes any sense.

It’s been enough of an irritation that I’ve begun gearing around it – I know they’ll target me, so I carry all Toughness gear. When I get a set of Exotic armor, I’ll probably rune it toward Vitality, or even more Toughness.

@Anymras: Wonder if the bosses you’ve been encountering have a priority to attack those with less vitality or survivability… hmmm…

I’ve never seen this mobs still focussing ppl after death thing happen. The mobs switch after their target is downed to the closest/most hurting one. The AI in this game doesn’t seem stupid. They often save their CC for when you use a burst, and don’t attack untill your block-counterattack cast has worn off …

Mobs stun you when you’re using what you think is a burst because most people open with one in PvE. Basically they stun you as you’re hitting the skill. This isn’t AI in the sense of them being smart. Its basic code to interrupt you as soon as they can. They don’t save it to use at the right time because the right time is right away, because the mob is going to be dead right after the stun wears off. I’ve noticed stuns happens either instantly or when you’re using heals. Sure, if you waited until the last second to use a heal, it might seem like the mob is SMART and “got you”, but it was just your fault for saving it until the last moment. Code detects the heal, mob stuns you…then the mob dies anyway. If the mob is lucky, he has 3 or 4 other friends to pound on you when you’re downed. But normally, you just just kill him in downed state and go on your merry way.

If mobs REALLY had AI in a MMO, they would all run away then gather together in one giant mass and obliterate the entire zone one section at a time. They could just huddle around each portal and never let anyone survive when they zone in the first time. They would know that screen lag hurts the player but not them, because they know what you’re going to do before you do it, because they are the code. They can react before your skill fires every time. Of course, the game would be unplayable, but that’s because mobs aren’t designed to be smart. They’re designed to be killed for exp so you can level up=)

The enemies in this game don’t have true AI, that is just silly nonsense.

However, the AI seems smarter than in your average game, even if it is all just an illusion due to the randomness. Enough monkey’s jammin’ on keyboards and eventually the Complete Works of Shakespeare pop out, right?

I’ve noticed on my engineer when I pop Elixir U giving me quickness, but also making me more vulnerable for the duration, I’m often stunned by the Veteran I’m fighting. I don’t pop my cooldowns at the start of battle, so that isn’t it, but again, it could just be coincidence.

I’ve also noticed that I’ve often been rooted after dodging more than once in succession simply to make space cause I’m fleeing desperately. Again, this could only be coincidence and due to me noticing such irritating events more than the ones where nothing notable occurs, but still, it gives the illusion of the enemies knowing what they are doing, if nothing else.

In other MMO’s, most enemies have pre-programmed timers to everything they do, and very little is random. You can time your heal to right after a certain ability, and you know everything will go smooth because you know the sequence that will occur. That doesn’t seem to be the case here. The NPC’s constantly alter the deal, and we pray they don’t alter it any further.

Now for aggro… that’s just one big mind-kitten here isn’t it? Coming from WoW, aggro in this game is like greek… and so far I like it. Some days it seems to make sense, others it makes none… but it keeps things interesting. I would love to fully understand the mechanic, really I would, but I also fear that would take some of the mystery out of it and make the combat less dynamic and more dull. Only time will tell I think.

The problem might be that no one else WANTS aggro. I’ve seen a few dedicated “tanks” around, but they’re definitely few and far between compared to people focused on dps.

I can usually grab aggro fairly quickly on my guardian by using a shield, even if I show up late, and there’s no way I’m doing the damage of a caster.

Even without boosting my Vitality, I have more HP than the Guardian I often run with – and not by a little, either, even though they have more Vitality than I do. So, while it could be something to do with Vitality, it doesn’t make a ton of sense.

When I visit lower lvl areas with my lvl80 warrior, I avoid certain bosses because I know that I will get full attention all the time throughout the event. And if it is a boss I can’t really kite because it has ranged skills that I barely can see coming due to AOE spam, I will die. It is kind of funny how I dread certain lower lvl bosses more then higher lvl bosses because of that.
So I do know that the mobs see some priority in targets.
I still have to figure out how to take aggro though when a guildie is about to be downed. Even when I stand in between ally and boss, I often still can’t get aggro.

Here’s my agro observations I’ve been writing down and keeping track of over the past few months as well as input from fellow guildmates: Just take note, none of this stuff is 100% guaranteed, the AI seems to have a marginal level of random code to it; First hit keeps agro longer than the following hits to a certain extent- the exact count of hits where the AI considers other targets priority is unknown or completely random; the AI considers distance when choosing priority target-if no suitable balance in distance can be found it uses other methods of target aquisition; the AI considers armor rating (toughness too) for priority target, it seems that for first hitters, higher armor will focus the agro on them more, but for ranged attackers, lower armor seems to attract more, an interesting note a few of us have noticed, HP/vitality has little or no effect unless there is a vast split between the players around (very high vs very low); when breaking agro, positioning players between you and the enemy while retreating will help break the agro, however the way you retreat matters too, if you just turn and run even while dodging they will still consider you the better target for longer distances, dodging off to the side while using other players to grab agro seems to be more effective; contrary to what most people have said, aoe’s don’t seem to generate more agro, but what they will do is crowd scatter more especially in dungeons, the enemies hate aoe and will flee it if there is too much of it; lastly standing in clumped up groups makes for higher priority targets, the reason that lone guardian in the boss’s face isn’t getting hit as much is a combination of all I listed above but also because the rest of you are most likely in a semi-packed group kiting at range and therefore are more viable targets for the enemy. Ok 1 final note, don’t focus on the individual observances of agro behavior, because it doesn’t use 1, it uses them all and once you understand how it works you can find ways around it. There will always be the random behavior but it can be dealt with when you’re more aware of the expected behaviors.

higher level characters even though officially “lowered” by the game will get and most likely keep aggro in lower areas of the game

I am a rare poster to MMO games forums folks – but this subject interests me too.

Absolutely NOT from the viewpoint of a 15 year year old kid giving me lectures about the holy trinity system in MMO games etc, or for that matter from a games viewpoint in isolation alone (sorry to be blunt folks but sometimes its best)

But what does interest me is commercial applications of the software code behind aggro and AI in games in real life……..

For example.

1) A new type of software virus checker that recognises bad things and intelligently pursues it to destruction on a pro active basis rather than the passive nature currently

2) A real life stock market trading system that again recognises bargains and opportunities (reverse aggro ) and buys them up etc……..

That’s absolutely not science fiction, the Man Group being about the worlds largest Hedge Fund group uses the very initial dawn of such systems…..

Link http://www.mangroupplc.com/index.jsf

So folks you see, the way aggro is coded in games indicates at least a degree of AI – I think that could have interesting commercial applications outside gaming

Views anyone

I am convinced that he/she with the highest Toughness gets aggro.

My observation: The most OP class is first target down to the most UP class:

Engi > Warri > Ele > Guardian > Necro > Mesmer > Ranger

=)

Something to keep in mind for aggro which I’ve seen work in another MMO I was in is that CC and condition damage type stuff could have a big impact as well. That Blind AoE you threw up for no damage could well override a Thief’s dps coming from behind, depending on how such factors are weighted. Similarly, some trivial DoT poison might each increment the aggro counter more then a burst from someone else. It could be pretty tough to separate all these factors out.

Apparently rule #1 of aggro is to target me. in my experience it’s who hits first and who does the highest dps… and those in light armor

i think it’s kind of cool how different mobs react differently to diff skills, people’s stats and attributes, etc. kind of gives them AI if you will. and makes for different fights and not the same thing over and over.

Kozai.8269:

Something to keep in mind for aggro which I’ve seen work in another MMO I was in is that CC and condition damage type stuff could have a big impact as well. That Blind AoE you threw up for no damage could well override a Thief’s dps coming from behind, depending on how such factors are weighted. Similarly, some trivial DoT poison might each increment the aggro counter more then a burst from someone else. It could be pretty tough to separate all these factors out.

I’ve found this to be true with my condition ranger. My DPS is pretty middling, but I interrupt/debuff a lot and stack burns/bleeds/poison. Certain mobs just want me dead no matter what. I’ve seen the same thing happen warriors that stun a lot.