How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Jaron.1820

Jaron.1820

Q:

Hello there.
Long story short: How does stacking the burning condition on mobs effect the “final” damage output?

according to the gw2 wiki:
“Burning is a condition that inflicts damage over time and stacks in duration”
“(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 damage per second”

Example:
2 people (both 80) are in a group, fighting a mob, namely a Guardian WITHOUT any condition damage and a Ranger WITH say 1000 condition damage.

The Guardian now applies 3 seconds of burning.
Damage in 3 seconds = 984
Damage per second = 328
After 1 second the ranger applies burning with a duration of 10 seconds.
Damage in 10 seconds = 5780
Damage per second = 578
This means there is a total of 13 seconds of burning on the creature. The damage calculation could be one of the 3 possibilites:

A) The burning damage gets overwritten by the rangers burning effect, dealing 1 second of the guardians damage and 12 seconds of the rangers damage.
(the damage would be: 328+12*578 = 7264)

B) The burning damage of the ranger gets overwritten by the guardians burning effect who applies first, which is why his burning effect is the one dealing damage. Effectivly this means that the Guardian deals 13 seconds of burning damage.
(the damage would be: 328*13 = 4264)

C) The creature continues to burn, dealing 3 seconds of the Guardians burning damage and 10 seconds of the rangers damage.
(the damage would be: 328*3+578*10 = 6764)

@A): This would mean that it’s a benefit for the character with high condition damage to have some others in the group who deal the same condition resulting in a minor increase of damage.

@B): This would mean that having a Guardian in the group as a character who is focused on condition damage is a huge loss in damage output.

@C): This would mean that it sucks for the ranger if the maximal condition duration of the burning effect has been reached – this would effectivly kill ALL the damage the ranger would do with his burning condition.

PS: The wiki lacks detailed information about this, making it very hard to determine the effectiveness of “duration-stacking-conditions”.

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

I didn’t read all your alternatives, but burning stacks duration but prioritizes whichever burning has the highest condition damage first and the lower ones wait in line unless another stronger one comes by.

So from your example:
-1 second of weak burn
-10 seconds of strong burn
-2 seconds of weak burn

But if the ranger keeps throwing his stronger burn and is able to keep it up, then the 2 second weak burn will always get pushed to the back of the line and never actually do damage. The guardian can keep adding more duration on the stack but his weaker ones always get pushed back to wait until the ranger burns end.

(edited by kokocabana.8153)

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Ilithis Mithilander.3265

Ilithis Mithilander.3265

Hello there.
Long story short: How does stacking the burning condition on mobs effect the “final” damage output?

according to the gw2 wiki:
“Burning is a condition that inflicts damage over time and stacks in duration”
“(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 damage per second”

Example:
2 people (both 80) are in a group, fighting a mob, namely a Guardian WITHOUT any condition damage and a Ranger WITH say 1000 condition damage.

The Guardian now applies 3 seconds of burning.
Damage in 3 seconds = 984
Damage per second = 328
After 1 second the ranger applies burning with a duration of 10 seconds.
Damage in 10 seconds = 5780
Damage per second = 578
This means there is a total of 13 seconds of burning on the creature. The damage calculation could be one of the 3 possibilites:

A) The burning damage gets overwritten by the rangers burning effect, dealing 1 second of the guardians damage and 12 seconds of the rangers damage.
(the damage would be: 328+12*578 = 7264)

B) The burning damage of the ranger gets overwritten by the guardians burning effect who applies first, which is why his burning effect is the one dealing damage. Effectivly this means that the Guardian deals 13 seconds of burning damage.
(the damage would be: 328*13 = 4264)

C) The creature continues to burn, dealing 3 seconds of the Guardians burning damage and 10 seconds of the rangers damage.
(the damage would be: 328*3+578*10 = 6764)

@A): This would mean that it’s a benefit for the character with high condition damage to have some others in the group who deal the same condition resulting in a minor increase of damage.

@B): This would mean that having a Guardian in the group as a character who is focused on condition damage is a huge loss in damage output.

@C): This would mean that it sucks for the ranger if the maximal condition duration of the burning effect has been reached – this would effectivly kill ALL the damage the ranger would do with his burning condition.

PS: The wiki lacks detailed information about this, making it very hard to determine the effectiveness of “duration-stacking-conditions”.

Give it a few years and the wiki will likely have all the juicy details that the Guild Wars 1 wiki has for all the mechanics in that game.

For this I know its not A or B and is indeed something like C, see kokocabana’s post. As for the maximum time a creature can have burning for, I’m not sure. Can an elementalist use a burning skill over and over that collectively can stack infinite burning time if the enemy has infinite health to survive the burning… Or does the burning stack to a some max duration no matter how much burning is applied.

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How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

Condition ticking damage is not constant once applied. On each tick, every condition(burns/bleeds/poison/etc..) is updated with the current condition damage of the players. So if the ranger’s burn is ticking for 100 and then he suddenly gets might or eats food, the burn ticks will change to the new condition damage of say 110. The guardian could suddenly get 25 stacks of might and have more condition damage than the ranger for a few seconds. When that happens, his burns will start getting applied since he pushes the ranger’s burn to the back of the line. Once the mights start to wear off and his condition damage gets lower than the ranger, it will start ticking for the ranger again.

(edited by kokocabana.8153)

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Jaron.1820

Jaron.1820

I was in a group just now and it appears to me that it’s actually like C). When I applied my burning effect (and I was certainly the one withthe most condition damage) it didn’t show up right away but only after a few seconds (after Guardian or Engineer burning effects).

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

It’s not C. I’ve tested it a lot. Condition ticks update their damage each tick and use priority system.

I run engineer main with a condition damage build and we can stack a lot of might from elixirs but they don’t last forever.

Best way to test is to get a friend that has a burn skill and find a champ since they won’t die so easily. Make whoever has a weaker burn cast first and then have your friend cast next. Here comes the hard part. Don’t add any more attacks or things that can proc extra burns and count how many ticks of what damage you see. Recording software can help, but you need to make sure you can see all the ticks.

(edited by kokocabana.8153)

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Jaron.1820

Jaron.1820

@Might: Lets say you play an engineer with 0 condition damage at level 80. Stacking might to 25 will get you a bonus of 875 according to gw2 wiki. I as a ranger have 1081 condition damage without any might stacks. I too get might stacks from various skills/traits.

Is there a 100% accurate way to actually test you thesis?

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

@Might: Lets say you play an engineer with 0 condition damage at level 80. Stacking might to 25 will get you a bonus of 875 according to gw2 wiki. I as a ranger have 1081 condition damage without any might stacks. I too get might stacks from various skills/traits.

Is there a 100% accurate way to actually test you thesis?

With 1081, that’s not a lot of condition damage. If you were able to see your burn after a few seconds then it’s possible that the other players’ burn wore off and their burn skills were on cooldown and didn’t apply any new burns so yours was the next strongest on the priority.

I tend to edit a lot when I post. The friend and recording software are best ways to test.

(edited by kokocabana.8153)

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Jaron.1820

Jaron.1820

Thanks. Will try that tomorrow and then post my conclusion here.

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

I could be wrong. I’ve always tested it by myself on champs and adding might to see how it updates on each tick. For the burn queuing, I use world bosses or WvW legendaries where the fight is long and I can assume there is someone in the zerg with at least as much or more condition damage than me. Once I start stacking might, it will show my burns and I let them wear off and they stop ticking.

I’d like to see you results too.

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: Jaron.1820

Jaron.1820

Some research I’ve done:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/66279-how-do-conditions-that-stack-duration-work/#entry1953370

He is saying:
“When a boon or condition stacks in duration from multiple sources, its strength is applied in the order of application, using the relevant stats for each source. For example, a stronger stack of poison applied over a weaker one must first wait for the weaker stack’s original duration to expire before the increased damage takes effect. "

Which means its queueing any conditions in order of application.

On the wiki link however:
“The effect from the source with the greatest intensity will be used for calculations for the duration of the effect. If there are two unique sources of Burning, the effect with the greater condition damage value will be used until that source ends, at which point, the intensity from the second source is used for the remaining duration.”

Which means that it is not queueing, but prioritizng the HIGHEST condition damage.
example would be:
condition damage in gear: A < B
burning damage: A < B
A applies, then B does before A’s condition has worn off. Resulting in a queue of:
A (part of his condition damage)
B (all of his condition damage because he has more than A)
A (the last bit of A’s condition damage)

Right?

How does stacking Burning effect Damage?

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Posted by: kokocabana.8153

kokocabana.8153

Yes. That conforms to my answer of how your first example would work.
-1 second of weak burn
-10 seconds of strong burn
-2 seconds of weak burn

It is prioritizing the strongest burn over weaker burns. What I meant by queuing is that if additional burns are constantly being applied during a long fight with lots of players, the weakest burn will always be adding to the total burn duration but never actually ticking unless everyone stronger stops recasting.