Guild Wars 2

Please help me understand why these two factors when selling items on the Trade Post have not been changed. If I want to sell an item on the Trade Post for 5,000 gold, it will cost me 750 gold to do so.

That is absolutely ridiculous and outrageously over priced.

I am not going to go off making comparisons of the real world and taxes but a 15% total loss is ludicrous. I can’t believe this has not been adjusted yet. I can understand a 2% non refundable listing fee and maybe a 3% exchange fee but a 15% total fee? It just seems to me that this is a failure to think rationally from the developers.

Start throwing me 100 gold a day for logging in and I won’t give hoot anymore but honestly, why remove 15% of a sale from the game? And we are forced to trade that way unless we are sleeping in the same bed at night with the person we are mailing items to.

I’ll pocket 4,250 for my item. No wonder everything costs so much.

-Van

in the real world money is removed by loss, damage, pulled because of visible wear and destroyed, etc. This mimics the real world and is an anti inflation measure as increasing gold into the world from drops would eventually cause the amount of gold in circulation to skyrocket.

That explanation makes absolutely 0 valid points.

Next.

If 15% of each Trading Post sale weren’t deducted by fees, everything would become far more expensive because there would be more gold in the game, particularly concentrated in the hands of the wealthiest players, those who use the Trading Post the most. It would be catastrophic for players with less money, who would see items being priced further and further out of their reach as the rich just keep getting richer.

The 15% fee is the single strongest hedge against inflation the game has. What other ways can you think of that the game has to remove gold from the economy? Buying cultural armour and Ascended recipes only go so far, and they’re things that not everyone will do. The gem exchange is there as well. But everyone uses the Trading Post.

This has been in the game since day 1. It has not changed and will not change.

If you want to receive 5000 gold for an item, you should raise your sell price so that you get 5000 gold after taxes. The tradepost even has a nifty pop-up that shows your expected net return after tax when you hover the mouse over the sell price.

By the way, the trade post tax is also an insurance. You can count on safe trades without getting scammed, because buyers cannot withhold payment or try dodgy trades (swapping items around and such). This is also why there is no trade screen in the game.

Edit: Yes to the point about inflation. This is a real danger in economies (both real and artificial), and game designers also have to make sure to structurally extract enough gold out of players’ purses so that (tradepost) prices remain stable. Taxing each trade post transaction is the surest way to make sure the richest players pay the most. Because they get rich by using the tradepost.

Those are some good points and thoughts. I hadn’t considered the security aspect and scams virtually being eliminated. I am not against the tax, just that it seems outrageously high value. I mean, 750 gold is a lot of coin.

But relating to Jorn’s point on just adjusting the sell price does not work. You can’t just decide to sell an item for whatever price, it will never sell. Then you’ve paid a non-returnable fee for an item you will never see sold. So, you could try but the odds aren’t in your favor. And even the most valued items get under cut all of the time, yet they sit there for weeks or more.

I appreciate the good points made.

-Van

You can also view the 15% as a convienence fee. You don’t have to spend any time looking for a buyer. Not many people are in the market to buy a 5000g item, and they might be in a different timezone. There’s no need to find that person, coordinate with them, then arrange for a trade time.

750g is a lot to see taken away, but I suggest you focus on the 4250g you get to keep, and go buy stuff that others will get 3612g for.

First it’s a gold sink to maintain some control over the growth of they money supply which helps slow inflation due to players having more and more money. It only costs you 250 g to post a 5K g item for sale but I can understand being annoyed if you get a fortuitous drop and not having the coin to sell it for it’s going rate. There is only one item on the TP that goes for 5K so I think you are overpricing whatever you are trying to sell.

Vancien.1980:

That explanation makes absolutely 0 valid points.

Next.

Think about what would happen in a game world where the supply of gold rises continuously. Prices would rise continuously to match and you would first need hundreds, then thousands then tens of thousands of gold then millions of gold to buy items. New players would be left behind. They would be unable to gear up unless they can get dropped gear, and that’s usually only basic gear.

Here is an article you can read, if you are actually serious and not just posting to rant.
http://voyagergames.com/currency-inflation-in-mmorpgs-and-tfrs-approach/

And a redditt post about hyperinflation in an mmorpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/2f5vn9/a_case_of_hyperinflation_in_a_virtual_economy/

Vancien.1980:

That explanation makes absolutely 0 valid points.

Next.

Van,

Why do we need to convice you becasuse you are not able to understand or do not accept the truth?

best thing i’ve seen on mmo economies

It’s a 5% listing fee and a 10% tax.

As for real life the sales tax around here is near 8.5% but random mugging are not acceptable ways of acquiring money in real life.

It “makes no sense” BECAUSE the SELLING price of an item is ALREADY in excess of the PURCHASE price (from the standpoint of the TP)—- they’ve ALREADY made theirs when the item sells!! It DOESN’T make sense to charge an EXTRA 15% just to BUY an item to sell at the TP ( unless, of course, you’re a HATED monopoly out to gouge both your buyers AND your sellers)!!!

Think it through, ANET. I have a product you, the TP, wants. I know what my cost was, and I know my expected “profit” from my efforts. What are YOUR efforts that require you to charge ME for mine??
Maybe we should create a “posse commitas” and charge Evan Gnashblade with fraud, operating a criminal enterprise, and grand theft—————and let another idiot try this operation!!

Um, no, the selling price is exactly the price an item sells for. What you see on the TP are offers: someone with an item is offering to sell it at price X and someone without the item is willing to pay price Y. There are tons of other people who haven’t made an offer and might offer anything in between or above/below those prices.

Thus, the only time the listing fee can be determined is at the moment the item is listed, regardless of whether it sells. The only time the tax can be determined is at the moment the item sells. Both are reasonably based on the sell offer price: in the first case, so the obligation is on the seller and in the second, since that’s the price at which the item sells.

In other words, the system makes sense in the context of how the Trading Post works.

Further, the purpose of fees and taxes (in the real and virtual worlds) is to serve the best interests of the community. Thus, the point isn’t to reward Gnashblade because he controls the TP. Rather the purpose is to remove huge amounts of wealth from the economy, to prevent the hyper-inflation that affects many virtual economies.

tl;dr the system makes sense.

rodadams.5963:

You can also view the 15% as a convienence fee. You don’t have to spend any time looking for a buyer. Not many people are in the market to buy a 5000g item, and they might be in a different timezone. There’s no need to find that person, coordinate with them, then arrange for a trade time.

750g is a lot to see taken away, but I suggest you focus on the 4250g you get to keep, and go buy stuff that others will get 3612g for.

You are right. It is always better to see the positive side!

Behellagh.1468:

First it’s a gold sink to maintain some control over the growth of they money supply which helps slow inflation due to players having more and more money. It only costs you 250 g to post a 5K g item for sale but I can understand being annoyed if you get a fortuitous drop and not having the coin to sell it for it’s going rate. There is only one item on the TP that goes for 5K so I think you are overpricing whatever you are trying to sell.

You assume as you have before and you are again wrong. I actually do have the most valued item, according to the trade post in the game. And that is how I came across seeing the exchange and fee on the 5k price. Or close to it. I’m sure it would sit there for a while before actually selling so who knows when I’d actually see the gold.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vancien.1980:

That explanation makes absolutely 0 valid points.

Next.

Think about what would happen in a game world where the supply of gold rises continuously. Prices would rise continuously to match and you would first need hundreds, then thousands then tens of thousands of gold then millions of gold to buy items. New players would be left behind. They would be unable to gear up unless they can get dropped gear, and that’s usually only basic gear.

Here is an article you can read, if you are actually serious and not just posting to rant.
http://voyagergames.com/currency-inflation-in-mmorpgs-and-tfrs-approach/

And a redditt post about hyperinflation in an mmorpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/2f5vn9/a_case_of_hyperinflation_in_a_virtual_economy/

Yeah, I was serious and also ranting a bit. And I have read several articles on it and videos. Just most MMO’s balance it with far less of a percentage than 15%. It still seems largely steep but the best reason for acceptance thus far has been; saving you from scammers by a safe trade method always.

Crossaber.8934:

Vancien.1980:

That explanation makes absolutely 0 valid points.

Next.

Van,

Why do we need to convice you becasuse you are not able to understand or do not accept the truth?

He was giving me examples about real world money that deteriorates over time or gets tarnished. That was not a good explanation to why the fee was so high nor did it explain anything but say it’s there because in the real world money disintegrates.

No, Trolls shouldn’t try convincing people of anything. They should stay in their caves.

Exodite.3058:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

best thing i’ve seen on mmo economies

Watched, thanks!

Khisanth.2948:

It’s a 5% listing fee and a 10% tax.

As for real life the sales tax around here is near 8.5% but random mugging are not acceptable ways of acquiring money in real life.

Haha! What a shame! :P

undouble.1472:

It “makes no sense” BECAUSE the SELLING price of an item is ALREADY in excess of the PURCHASE price (from the standpoint of the TP)—- they’ve ALREADY made theirs when the item sells!! It DOESN’T make sense to charge an EXTRA 15% just to BUY an item to sell at the TP ( unless, of course, you’re a HATED monopoly out to gouge both your buyers AND your sellers)!!!

Think it through, ANET. I have a product you, the TP, wants. I know what my cost was, and I know my expected “profit” from my efforts. What are YOUR efforts that require you to charge ME for mine??
Maybe we should create a “posse commitas” and charge Evan Gnashblade with fraud, operating a criminal enterprise, and grand theft—————and let another idiot try this operation!!

Omg! Hahahahahaa! SO FUNNY.