Guild Wars 2

As the title states, fighting ranged players as a melee character really sucks at the moment. Ranged players can move around and kite while blasting you with spells or shooting with weapons – no missing, they hit every time! As a melee player, I can kite around just as well, but my attacks can’t hit.

I know you are testing Move-to-Target functionality, as I saw it in one of your recent screenshots on a developer blog post. How soon can we expect this functionality in-game?

I know some players dont like it, thats fine, make it an option they can de-select.

As for me, I won’t be enjoying WvW or PvP until this is an option.

A couple things:

1. There is no such thing as a “ranged character” or a “melee character”. Every class has ranged options. A class like the Guardian might have fewer ranged options than others, but they also tend to have more control to allow them to get in range.

2. I’m not saying this to flame or to disparage, so please understand that so it doesn’t come across the wrong way… but my advice is to “get better” rather than wait for the developers to add a feature for you. . Yes, ranged shots are easier to land than melee shots. Melee attacks also tend to do significantly more damage. The way you’ve phrased your post makes me wonder if you’re taking advantage of your character as much as you can (weapon swaps, skills to close the gap or to immobilize/cripple an opponent, etc). I’m referring to language like referring to yourself several times as “a melee player”. Even with a move-to-target function, people are still going to be able to knock you back, cripple you, evade your attacks, gain swiftness to sprint away, etc.

Anyway, this post was written with the intent of providing advice, not as a flame or disparagement.

Porkchops.3986:

A couple things:

1. There is no such thing as a “ranged character” or a “melee character”. Every class has ranged options. A class like the Guardian might have fewer ranged options than others, but they also tend to have more control to allow them to get in range.

2. I’m not saying this to flame or to disparage, so please understand that so it doesn’t come across the wrong way… but my advice is to “get better” rather than wait for the developers to add a feature for you. . Yes, ranged shots are easier to land than melee shots. Melee attacks also tend to do significantly more damage. The way you’ve phrased your post makes me wonder if you’re taking advantage of your character as much as you can (weapon swaps, skills to close the gap or to immobilize/cripple an opponent, etc). I’m referring to language like referring to yourself several times as “a melee player”. Even with a move-to-target function, people are still going to be able to knock you back, cripple you, evade your attacks, gain swiftness to sprint away, etc.

Anyway, this post was written with the intent of providing advice, not as a flame or disparagement.

I agree with you mostly, but is that bold statement actually true? In my experience it is not true at all.

Ranged attacks are also trajectory based, so if you as a “melee” character are constantly changing direction and moving throughout the fight, you’re going to cause the “ranged” characters to miss you more often. I’m going to agree with Porkchops here, you need to get better and combat awareness and movement are two things that are incredibly important when pvp combat isn’t just about standing still hitting button number 1 until something dies. Combat in MMO’s has evolved into something that requires a lot more action on your part if you have any chance of being competitive. Learn to adapt to the situations, make use of boons and conditions, swap weapons, dodge, take every opportunity to gain the upper hand on someone and you’ll have a lot more fun in pvp because you’ll win fights more often.

I haven’t played every profession, but all my melee chars have skills to get in range, and conditions to help me keep up when they run (cripple, immobilize, stun etc). What profession are you having a hard time with?

I do agree ranged is easier, but you can still compete.

Sky.9347:

I agree with you mostly, but is that bold statement actually true? In my experience it is not true at all.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but from my first-hand experience it certainly is with Mesmer, Warrior, and Elementalist (the latter I’m pretty new at, though). I have more killing power in melee range than I do with ranged combat. The Warrior rifle, for instance, is pretty effective at single-target but you give up any sort of multi-target capability and it’s nowhere close to the carnage of pulling off a well-timed Hundred Blades (or an axe build.. ouch!). The Longbow has the opposite issue, where it has some solid AE capabilities but… not so much trying to take down an individual. Great weapons both, but they don’t stand up to the melee weapons in terms of face-melting potential, in my experience!

Sky.9347:

Porkchops.3986:

A couple things:

1. There is no such thing as a “ranged character” or a “melee character”. Every class has ranged options. A class like the Guardian might have fewer ranged options than others, but they also tend to have more control to allow them to get in range.

2. I’m not saying this to flame or to disparage, so please understand that so it doesn’t come across the wrong way… but my advice is to “get better” rather than wait for the developers to add a feature for you. . Yes, ranged shots are easier to land than melee shots. Melee attacks also tend to do significantly more damage. The way you’ve phrased your post makes me wonder if you’re taking advantage of your character as much as you can (weapon swaps, skills to close the gap or to immobilize/cripple an opponent, etc). I’m referring to language like referring to yourself several times as “a melee player”. Even with a move-to-target function, people are still going to be able to knock you back, cripple you, evade your attacks, gain swiftness to sprint away, etc.

Anyway, this post was written with the intent of providing advice, not as a flame or disparagement.

I agree with you mostly, but is that bold statement actually true? In my experience it is not true at all.

Probably depends on the profession. My Mesmer does approximately double to triple the damage with his sword swings per target (and the AE effect of swinging on two of the three hits) compared to his staff’s single target plinking on the auto attack skills.

Porkchops.3986:

Sky.9347:

I agree with you mostly, but is that bold statement actually true? In my experience it is not true at all.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong, but from my first-hand experience it certainly is with Mesmer, Warrior, and Elementalist (the latter I’m pretty new at, though). I have more killing power in melee range than I do with ranged combat. The Warrior rifle, for instance, is pretty effective at single-target but you give up any sort of multi-target capability and it’s nowhere close to the carnage of pulling off a well-timed Hundred Blades (or an axe build.. ouch!). The Longbow has the opposite issue, where it has some solid AE capabilities but… not so much trying to take down an individual. Great weapons both, but they don’t stand up to the melee weapons in terms of face-melting potential, in my experience!

Well I guess that makes sense, when you think about the ability for melee weapons to naturally hit multiple targets with the same kind of single target damage.

But on a skill for skill basis, I think raw damage is about equal. Warrior has the rifle skill (#3, forgot the name) that is about equal in damage to Hundred Blades. Ranged is easier to hit, HB has the potential of hitting multiple foes.

I don’t have any numbers to prove you wrong or right, was just wondering since I know there are some ranged skills (Thief’s “Unload”) that surpass the melee options for particular builds or professions when it comes to raw damage.

Again – I agree with your sentiment regarding the OP though, as a melee Guardian I feel like once I catch that squirrelly little Ranger I am going to hurt him SO BAD… and I do. It takes some cunning and wit though, for sure.

sPVP is fine, in WvW people tend to target the closest enemy to their blob

I keep going for ranged only setups since i found melee to be troublesome to hit in most cases. Even when you almost bump your nose into your enemy it sometimes ‘MISS’. Not to speak of the need to constantly run after it , keep right direction and so on. Going ranged , beein mobile AND constantly hitting your target from any angle IS the way to go, more so since longbows and other ranged weapons have no downside at point-blanc range.

Aren’t the majority of GW2 players coming from GW1 where when you selected a target and chose your attack skill/clicked on the target, your toon moved to that target and/or initiated contact. That functionality is currently only available with weapons that work at a specific range – and I believe that is what the OP is inferring.

I’m still getting used to the feel of this new version and it will take others time as well.

Sky.9347:

But on a skill for skill basis, I think raw damage is about equal. Warrior has the rifle skill (#3, forgot the name) that is about equal in damage to Hundred Blades. Ranged is easier to hit, HB has the potential of hitting multiple foes.

According to gw2db.com:

Volley (Rifle) 1660 damage / 10s
Hundred Blades (GS) 2434 + 608 final strike / 8s – Keep in mind Hundred Blades is also clobbering everyone else unfortunate to be caught in the area. It needs to be said, though, that it’s harder to pull off and is easier to avoid than Volley, but again that was my point that while melee is harder to land, it hits significantly higher (in this case nearly double damage and AE instead of single target with a 20% shorter cooldown).

The auto attack values are also quite different:

Rifle: 221 + bleed
GS: 387 (add vuln) / 387 (add vuln) / 498

Obviously I’m not claiming I’ve done extensive research, this is just anecdotal evidence from my own personal experiences (both with classes I’ve played, such as Mesmer and Warrior, as well as being on the… receiving end of some nasty melee attacks). The number provided above were just to kind of give a data point on where I was coming from in my statement, and that I didn’t just completely pull things out of mykitten

Thanks for your replies with your perspective and info, especially since I’ve yet to play a guardian. I’ve enjoyed the discussion!

Sky.9347:

Porkchops.3986:

A couple things:

1. There is no such thing as a “ranged character” or a “melee character”. Every class has ranged options. A class like the Guardian might have fewer ranged options than others, but they also tend to have more control to allow them to get in range.

2. I’m not saying this to flame or to disparage, so please understand that so it doesn’t come across the wrong way… but my advice is to “get better” rather than wait for the developers to add a feature for you. . Yes, ranged shots are easier to land than melee shots. Melee attacks also tend to do significantly more damage. The way you’ve phrased your post makes me wonder if you’re taking advantage of your character as much as you can (weapon swaps, skills to close the gap or to immobilize/cripple an opponent, etc). I’m referring to language like referring to yourself several times as “a melee player”. Even with a move-to-target function, people are still going to be able to knock you back, cripple you, evade your attacks, gain swiftness to sprint away, etc.

Anyway, this post was written with the intent of providing advice, not as a flame or disparagement.

I agree with you mostly, but is that bold statement actually true? In my experience it is not true at all.

Sky, Anet already said (stated) that Melee does more damage than ranged, it’s a fact already. It’s because they are part of a High Risk / High Reward kinda deal.

I would go search the web where they said it XD But im too lazy.

I’m still a noob but when in sPvP as a warrior you have to look at your abilities. When you bullrush a target you have them immobilized for a brief second, then you hit your second ability with greatsword (I forget the name but it’s like a flurry of attacks while they are stunned). After this you should have enough adrenaline to switch to 1h axe/shield and use the ability (F1 default) to destroy them. I don’t have problems with melee and sure it does take a tiny bit more skill than when you are ranging (any class has this ability) but I found that melee hits a lot harder than when ranging. Pros and cons my frens, pros and cons..

I think a big part of the problem is the functionality of many of the leap / charge abilities. They are intended to act as range closers for melee but most of them just do not work well enough to fill that role. Some of them have self roots and extremely long animations that mean by the time you land your target is miles away. For others they may take you close to the target but stop just short of them.

If the leap / charge skills had better functionality, if the charge skills in particular worked like warrior charge in wow. Took you to the target and gave them a 1s stun or interrupt. It would make melee much more effective.

Also all self roots on melee abilities need to be removed. They make the abilities that have them next to useless since any moving opponent and can completely avoid them with little effort.

Karast.1927:

Also all self roots on melee abilities need to be removed. They make the abilities that have them next to useless since any moving opponent and can completely avoid them with little effort.

Those abilities tend to do a large amount of burst damage, which is why the self-root exists and why they hit so much harder than abilities that you can use on the move. That doesn’t make them next to useless, it means that you have to set up the attack. Hundred Blades isn’t meant to be spammed every 8 seconds while you’re in range, you need to set it up with a knockdown / stun / immobilize. Bull rush the target, then trigger it. Nail them with the Immobilize from the Longbow then swap and pummel them. Knock them down with the hammer and pummel them (with the hammer you have two options). I’ve been caught on the receiving end of those attacks (and have caught others with them) and if they were easy to pull off they would need to see some pretty significant rebalancing in terms of reducing the damage they can do, IMO.

That’s not all to say everything is perfectly in balance yet, the game just came out after all. That being said, I think (moreso than a lot of MMOs) there’s a lot of room for player skill to improve in how we utilize these abilities, and that’s something that I think we as a playerbase need to be looking at first, not asking for mechanics changes and rebalancing. We’re all still relative noobs in a MMO that has a significantly higher skill cap than most.

Karast.1927:

I think a big part of the problem is the functionality of many of the leap / charge abilities. They are intended to act as range closers for melee but most of them just do not work well enough to fill that role. Some of them have self roots and extremely long animations that mean by the time you land your target is miles away. For others they may take you close to the target but stop just short of them.

If the leap / charge skills had better functionality, if the charge skills in particular worked like warrior charge in wow. Took you to the target and gave them a 1s stun or interrupt. It would make melee much more effective.

Also all self roots on melee abilities need to be removed. They make the abilities that have them next to useless since any moving opponent and can completely avoid them with little effort.

I am currently using the two sword signet build for my Warrior in PvE because it is quick to level, the leap ability on the sword misses constantly but I always have more abilities to use.

Bull’s Charge is the ability to rush and stun you are looking for. It knocks them down. that followed by a cripple makes opponents easy to hit.

The root can be annoying but if you run your skills through correctly you can get chains where after the first good hit stops them you can wail on them easily

Setting aside all the varied explanations, opinions, etc., etc., just remember this:

If ‘move to target’ WERE implemented, it would be a two-way street … the guys that aren’t able currently to whack you in the head for this reason would now be able to do so as well.

Be careful what you wish for … you just might get it.

Also if you need more CC there is a trait for Warrior that applies a 1s Immobilize every time you apply a cripple. That is very helpful and I find that great for closing the gap. You can use Axe and Rifle to apply a ranged cripple when they run away and with the trait you have a much easier time getting on target in melee range.

Also you can trait 15 points in tactics I think to shave 5 secs off the weapon swap CD. I find this amazing for WvW for swapping weapons a lot from Rifle to Axes.

Evil Seabass.5214:

I know you are testing Move-to-Target functionality, as I saw it in one of your recent screenshots on a developer blog post. How soon can we expect this functionality in-game?

I recall the screenshot you are referring to. That was simply the developer options menu. GW2 is built on GW1, which means that Move-To-Target has been implemented but disabled for players the entire time.

Early on, people were asking about click-to-move, which GW1 had, and ArenaNet was firm in saying that they have intentionally moved away from such control options. You’ll just have to adapt your skillset to the situation like everyone else instead of waiting for an option that they will never allow you to use.

The maps I’ve played on so far all have a lot of ways to make sure you’re “obstructed” from a ranged attacker, in addition to the usual things (evade, move, shield, …).

The big ranged damage seem to take some time, so don’t be there when it comes.

If you want to go melee, one thing to consider that doesn’t seem to apply in any other MMO (except Terra) – if there is someone or a mob in the way, the hit will strike them instead of you.

I’ve been owned quite a few times by “melee” classes that are mainly spec’d for melee (thief, guardian, warrior but yeah the better players also ue their ranged weapons situationally) who manage to keep closing my gaps when I try to kite, use cc when my breaker on cd and then have me dead within a few eye blinks.
I don’t consider myself a great pvp’er but I do pride myself with my ability to flee because I’ve been playing light armor classes in most games and mostly full healer spec’d as well. I guess my point is that I experienced those “melee” classes have a lot of options to close gaps / cc and still own “ranged” classes. More than in some other games I played where I had damage reflecting bubbles, multiple selfheals and gap creators but the melee classes typically only had 1 gap closer and some light cc that I could break anyway.

This game is already much easier than many MMOs for melee due to the ability to actually dodge projectiles. Any easier and you may as well delete ranged classes all together.

No it doesn’t suck for melee. Has it ever occured to you that you might just be terrible at playing melee? Maybe you’d be better suited with something easier.

Assuming there is something easier even in the game.

This subforum is for players to help other players or ask for help of other players. This is not the place to ask for in-game features to be added or provide general feedback. As the forums are only partially open, please be patient before posting off topic in on-topic forums.