Guild Wars 2

Ok,

I do like the game and everything about it.

That was until I decided at level 15 to try pvp for the first time.

Maybe I am missing something because after seeing pvp and being auto to level 80 specs with all my traits ect available.. I started to have to no urge to play the game any more.

I have these questions.

It was fun getting more traits, gear ect as I leveled up.

After seeing and using them in pvp and going back to pve I have no real desire as there is no fun all ready knowing and using the traits..

Second I can’t figure out now what is the point of getting to level 80 and getting more and more powerful if you can’t use that in pvp.

Also as far as I see everyone has the same gear in pvp.

So if I win in pvp what is the rewards ?

I feel like this is (without getting into politics too much) a game where everyone gets rewarded . Kinda like wealth redistribution. It doesn’t rely on the individual …
Hard work does not pay off any more then someone who just rides along.

I just don’t understand the point of getting to level 80 at all.

So you get to level 80.. Level 60 or level 50 don’t matter at all in pvp.

What difference does it make then to be level 70. Why not stop there ?

Is it enough reward to get to level 80 and say congrats to yourself I am 80 ?

What am I missing here ? I was enjoying the game .. but now I have all these questions.

Can you use weapons , armor from pve into pvp ?

If it is the way I think think it is then maybe this isn’t the game for me.

I like to be rewarded for what I do … Not given anything.

I just get the feeling that this more liberal then I am .

Kinda like folks who don’t think in sports someone should lose kind of mentality.

Thx for listening.

Just go to pvp and your 80 with all your traits ect …

sPvP in this game is completely separate from PvE. You are auto leveled to 80 with all skills and traits unlocked and everyone has access to the same gear. This is done so that PvP is not dominated by players that have grind to top level PvP gear on it and win games because they out-gear you and not necessarily out-skill you. Also this is pretty much the only way that devs can balance PvP combat without affecting the way someones class performs in PvE. IMO this has been done extremely well and should stay that way.

Now the annoying thing for some people is that you get to 80 on your real character and say you have all exotics and even a legendary weapon, then you go to Heart of the Mists, and your stripped down to the general PvP gear everyone has. I understand the desire to want to wear your amazing looking PvE gear while playing maches but bringing PvE gear into the sPvP area will offset the structure they have set up with balancing classess and gear designed for sPvP. However if you want to go into WvWvW and play pvp, gear really matters there because you get ranked up to 80 but your gear, skills, and traits still stay with you and if you are out geared by another player they have the advantage.

sPvP has its own Mystic Forge where you can craft different set of gear to show off and display how dedicated you are to that aspect of the game as well. There are different ranks of Glory in sPvP and depending on which rank you are you will be able to craft different sets of gear. So if you play tons of sPvP and get to max Glory rank and have idk the Flame Legion armor set(I dont know what rank is required for this but I figure its high) and you roll around in games wearing it, a new player coming into sPvP will see that and be like holy crap that guy looks amazing. And they then have that drive to keep playing to get the cool looking gear. And the best thing is that the same person that comes into the game, if he is skilled at his profession, can still beat the guy wearing the highest ranking armor because they have the same stats, one guy just looks like he is God Mode and the other guys not so much.

Anyway, I think you just have to look at them as almost two separate games. Your PvE side character that you have your gear you have leveled and ground for hours and hours to get and can use in WvWvW and your sPvP character that is made only for sPvP maches has access to their own gear locker.

In my opionion this is amazing because it gives me so much to work for. Getting my character to 80 getting all exotics with the right runes and sigils then crafting legendaries. And then i still have to rank my way up in Glory to get my Flame Legion set for PvP (Can you tell thats my favorite set) lol.

Hopefully that made sense.

In this game, we fight in PvP because we like to fight. The gear all has equal stats, because we like to fight on even terms.

If we just live in the Mists, we will eventually earn some really kitten looking gear to flaunt how awesome we are.

But no matter what, sPvP is always an EVEN PLAYING FIELD where you win or lose based solely on your strategy, and tactics. Never will you lose just because your opponent has all the free time in the world to get the highest tier of gear and 2 shot you into oblivion while only taking 13% of your damage.

But fear not! For there is one other method of PvP which combines your PvE progression (and gear) with a somewhat level playing field.

WvWvW – You will use your unlocked skills, equipped gear, and earned money. You’ll be scaled to level 80.. but you don’t get instant access to skills/traits/gear.

Ok ,

ty for the insight.

I did not know about WvWvW. I assume this is world vs world or something like it ?

If so I have new reason to play..

Ty for taking the time to explain.

Appreciate it

Sky.9347:

In this game, we fight in PvP because we like to fight. The gear all has equal stats, because we like to fight on even terms.

If we just live in the Mists, we will eventually earn some really kitten looking gear to flaunt how awesome we are.

But no matter what, sPvP is always an EVEN PLAYING FIELD where you win or lose based solely on your strategy, and tactics. Never will you lose just because your opponent has all the free time in the world to get the highest tier of gear and 2 shot you into oblivion while only taking 13% of your damage.

But fear not! For there is one other method of PvP which combines your PvE progression (and gear) with a somewhat level playing field.

WvWvW – You will use your unlocked skills, equipped gear, and earned money. You’ll be scaled to level 80.. but you don’t get instant access to skills/traits/gear.

Yeah you gave the condensed version of what I said, lol. I type to much.

Snuffleluffagus.5076:

Ok ,

ty for the insight.

I did not know about WvWvW. I assume this is world vs world or something like it ?

If so I have new reason to play..

Ty for taking the time to explain.

Appreciate it

World vs. World vs. World is something that I think many people (myself included) grossly underestimated.

Siege warfare is terrifying. When you see that red circle appear on the ground and you KNOW some siege engines at the nearby keep have been trying to get a bead on you and you KNOW they can basically kill you in one or two shots… yea, you learn to fear the siege.

For me, tactics seem to revolve around supply. Getting it, moving it, denying it, controlling it, and USING it.

WvW is fun, but honestly it takes a solid hour or two before you’re really gonna “get it”.

Awesome sounds like fun.. So I take it be level 80 before you go in there ?

You can help out no matter what level you are in WvWvW. Communication is important to find where the fights are taking place, and it does take a bit of time to learn all the cool mechanics and options that are available there.

But it is so far my favorite part of the game. Truly some of the greatest moments. Nothing like knocking down a keep gate with 30 other people and being the first ones leading the charge into the now broken defenders. Or from the otherside, being in a charge with 15-20 other players to break those people laying siege.

Don’t need to be 80 but being at least 30 so you can have your elite skill helps. Even roaming around and finding solo fights can be alot of fun in WvWvW, or form a grp and look for some GvG fights. Sieging is only a fraction of the fun in WvWvW.

Snuffleluffagus.5076:

Awesome sounds like fun.. So I take it be level 80 before you go in there ?

You CAN go in at level 1 or 2, and you’ll be scaled up to 80. But you wouldn’t have any weapon skills unlocked, utility skills unlocked, no elites, only 1 healing skill unlocked, zero traits (a big disadvantage) and NO MONEY FOR SIEGE.

But you will slowly level while playing anyway.

The natural level 80s just stomp the scaled level 80s. But you can still be very useful, just maybe not so much with 1v1 fights.

Personnally, I don’t think that balance in PvP should be achieved by giving everything to everyone without even trying. It’s the old hardcore vs. casual player debate. Why on earth does my weapons and armor have the same stats as someone who just bought the game if I already spent like 100 hours doing PvP? People who invest alot of time should get more rewarded that someone who just started. It seems pretty logic to me.

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

I’m trying to be constructive here because, like the OP, I don’t understand their vision of PvP. To me, it feels like they said: “So how do we balance PvP guys ? Why not just give people the same gear and stats. That way, we won’t have to balance anything”. It’s a shortcut for a quick getaway.

I bought this game to do some serious PvP and the only thing I can do about it is change the appearance of my armor and I don’t even have to level my toon up to the level cap to do it…kind of disappointing. In a mmo, it’s all about the gear. Once you’ve explored the world and saw all the beautiful scenery (the gfx of this game are awesome), all that is left for you to do is get better gear to see bigger numbers. It’s always about getting THAT piece of gear and they completely took it away in PvP.

I disagree, belligerently if I have to, with the poster above me.

Vile.7043:

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

Because PVP is against other players. A mob doesn’t get frustrated if he gets oneshot by your Magic Greatsword of Doom.

The idea that someone new to PVP should have to be repeatedly farmed by better geared players than him for weeks in order to become competitive is just stupid and bad design. It is amazing it has lasted as long as it has.

Your reward for spending more time in PVP is that you get better at PVP. If you can’t beat someone who just started PVPing 5 minutse ago after spending dozens of hours…you should take a look in the mirror because the problem isn’t with the game, it’s with you.

But yes, if you want gear-based PVP where you win just based on spending more time farming gear…this is not the game for you and you should quit now.

Yukishiro.8792:

Vile.7043:

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

Because PVP is against other players. A mob doesn’t get frustrated if he gets oneshot by your Magic Greatsword of Doom.

The idea that someone new to PVP should have to be repeatedly farmed by better geared players than him for weeks in order to become competitive is just stupid and bad design. It is amazing it has lasted as long as it has.

Your reward for spending more time in PVP is that you get better at PVP. If you can’t beat someone who just started PVPing 5 minutse ago after spending dozens of hours…you should take a look in the mirror because the problem isn’t with the game, it’s with you.

But yes, if you want gear-based PVP where you win just based on spending more time farming gear…this is not the game for you and you should quit now.

One thing I want these forums to have is a ‘like’ or ‘upvote’ function. So that I could like this post an infinite number of times.

Vile.7043:

Personnally, I don’t think that balance in PvP should be achieved by giving everything to everyone without even trying. It’s the old hardcore vs. casual player debate. Why on earth does my weapons and armor have the same stats as someone who just bought the game if I already spent like 100 hours doing PvP? People who invest alot of time should get more rewarded that someone who just started. It seems pretty logic to me.

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

I’m trying to be constructive here because, like the OP, I don’t understand their vision of PvP. To me, it feels like they said: “So how do we balance PvP guys ? Why not just give people the same gear and stats. That way, we won’t have to balance anything”. It’s a shortcut for a quick getaway.

I bought this game to do some serious PvP and the only thing I can do about it is change the appearance of my armor and I don’t even have to level my toon up to the level cap to do it…kind of disappointing. In a mmo, it’s all about the gear. Once you’ve explored the world and saw all the beautiful scenery (the gfx of this game are awesome), all that is left for you to do is get better gear to see bigger numbers. It’s always about getting THAT piece of gear and they completely took it away in PvP.

I respectfully disagree. In PvP, it’s all about being better than the enemy. When I go up against anyone with the same gear and superior tactics I will win. If he has better skill he will win. It basically makes PvP purely about who has better skills in comparison to most played hours.

Besides it’s not like most played hours doesn’t matter. If I played 100 hours and I have to fight against someone who just started I will win. That’s the progression. Skill progression.

ZionNow.2138:

Vile.7043:

Personnally, I don’t think that balance in PvP should be achieved by giving everything to everyone without even trying. It’s the old hardcore vs. casual player debate. Why on earth does my weapons and armor have the same stats as someone who just bought the game if I already spent like 100 hours doing PvP? People who invest alot of time should get more rewarded that someone who just started. It seems pretty logic to me.

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

I’m trying to be constructive here because, like the OP, I don’t understand their vision of PvP. To me, it feels like they said: “So how do we balance PvP guys ? Why not just give people the same gear and stats. That way, we won’t have to balance anything”. It’s a shortcut for a quick getaway.

I bought this game to do some serious PvP and the only thing I can do about it is change the appearance of my armor and I don’t even have to level my toon up to the level cap to do it…kind of disappointing. In a mmo, it’s all about the gear. Once you’ve explored the world and saw all the beautiful scenery (the gfx of this game are awesome), all that is left for you to do is get better gear to see bigger numbers. It’s always about getting THAT piece of gear and they completely took it away in PvP.

I respectfully disagree. In PvP, it’s all about being better than the enemy. When I go up against anyone with the same gear and superior tactics I will win. If he has better skill he will win. It basically makes PvP purely about who has better skills in comparison to most played hours.

Besides it’s not like most played hours doesn’t matter. If I played 100 hours and I have to fight against someone who just started I will win. That’s the progression. Skill progression.

amen to that.

i think kicking off on equal footing is awesome. finally it’s all about skill, not gear. you can’t get steamrolled by a bunch of geared players. if you lose, you’ve lost because you still need to learn to play your own class.

i find it sad so many people got used to the concept of farming for gear so they could think that extra advantage gear gave them was a badge of skill. it’s that kind of attitude which infected wvwvw and led to the whole dolyak thing. has anyone else noticed since anet took the xp gain off the dolyak escorts that you can just pop straight into wvwvw without a 2hr-long queue now and there’s so much more action going on? it’s wonderful that anet seems to actively look for ways to make the whole pvp experience exciting, dynamic, and challenging to everyone.

this game is viagra to my pvp-on.

I’d like to add, you say that you’ve already seen the skills but this isn’t the case, my ranger has a different set of skills joining sPvP than it does in PvP. There’s a few that are the same, but mostly their all different, especially the higher tiers.

Don’t forget you can also work towards your town clothes.

Collect dyes

Transmute the looks

Collect tons and tons of different PvP armour and stick them in your locker

Yukishiro.8792:

Vile.7043:

The PvE aspect does not share this path. If a player just turned 80, he won’t be able to finish the high end instances like someone who already spent 100 hours getting his gear together to actually be able to beat those instances right? How is PvP any different based on this logic ?

Because PVP is against other players. A mob doesn’t get frustrated if he gets oneshot by your Magic Greatsword of Doom.

The idea that someone new to PVP should have to be repeatedly farmed by better geared players than him for weeks in order to become competitive is just stupid and bad design. It is amazing it has lasted as long as it has.

Your reward for spending more time in PVP is that you get better at PVP. If you can’t beat someone who just started PVPing 5 minutse ago after spending dozens of hours…you should take a look in the mirror because the problem isn’t with the game, it’s with you.

But yes, if you want gear-based PVP where you win just based on spending more time farming gear…this is not the game for you and you should quit now.

So my reward is getting better at PvP (which I would still benefit if I could get better stuff) but I don’t progress gear wise. It’s just like if they put everyone naked and said “Go have some fun on the battlefield!” It’s the exact same thing. You are locked in this setup and can’t do anything about it. You guys seriously don’t mind spending hours and hours always in the same exact set of gear day after day. One part of a game that is fun to me is that I have to work for what I earn, just like PvE. It just feel like some 12 years old who bought a toon on ebay with max stats/gear. Honestly, I didn’t knew about this and got misleaded buying this game.

About this: “But yes, if you want gear-based PVP where you win just based on spending more time farming gear…”. If you go against the weak (which most mature players don’t do) yeah you will most likely win because you’ll have better gear but if you go against the best, whom also spent a lot of hard work getting his stuff (and I’m pretty sure his darn proud about it) then you have an even match. Now the only thing to be proud of is the new dye you just put on your armor…It does not make me stronger but hell now it has some sparkling effects! I just fail to see where you get THAT feeling for finally have what you worked so hard for. THAT feeling is what keeps me going. If I want sixpack abs, I’ll do some workout and one day, when I’ll finally see my sixpack abs, I’ll have THAT feeling of accomplishment. In GW2, you already have sixpack abs so you don’t need to workout. All you have to do is look at them and enjoy them while they last because you might get bored looking at them someday.

Now you’ll say yeah that’s exactly what GW2 did, they removed the time investment to gear yourself. Maybe it’s a bit of laziness from the new generation of mmo players. They want everything and they want it now. Back the in the old UO days, you could get looted when you died even in PvP. That was serious business but yet it does not stop people from pvping.

And if you get frustrated by my magic Greatsword of Doom, just go get one yourself. Problem solved! Oh wait you don’t need to because everyone already have a magic Greatsword of Doom when they buy the game. Based on what you are saying, PvP will now be frustration-less then. I can’t wait to witness that!

In the end, you are right. This is probably not a game for me. I’m glad it’s free to play though. I wish I’ve read the “Things you wish you knew about the game” thread before buying it :/

Btw I don’t mean to be rude or anything it’s just my vision of the state of this game which a lot of you guys don’t agree with which is perfectly fine.

Snuffleluffagus.5076:

Awesome sounds like fun.. So I take it be level 80 before you go in there ?

No, the thread creator is one of those people that can’t handle being on an even platform with everyone else. Go in at any level.

The problem I think you are having is that you are equating progression to simply gaining more gear. This game has a steep learning curve. You will progress simply by playing more.

The whole concept of PvP gear is a terrible design because it has such a negative impact on newer players. It should never be expected that you simply just get rolled for days/weeks/months to gear up because you are at such a huge disadvantage (lack of skill from lack of time played and lack of gear). This game removes one of those elements, while allowing the more talented players to advance. The gap between the top players and the bottom players will be skill and skill alone. That is a beautiful model and it will allow anyone who is truly good at this game to excel much quicker than someone who just spends tons of time on the game. There are still rewards for playing more than other players, they just don’t make you a god among mere mortals.

Vile.7043:

In the end, you are right. This is probably not a game for me. I’m glad it’s free to play though. I wish I’ve read the “Things you wish you knew about the game” thread before buying it :/

Btw I don’t mean to be rude or anything it’s just my vision of the state of this game which a lot of you guys don’t agree with which is perfectly fine.

This is a good way to view it. The whole way they approach PvP (and it was similar in GW1) is the reason why I play the game. Personally, I can’t stand PvP gear progression… because I can’t dedicate time to the game. There are sometimes many weeks I just don’t have time to play, and then when I do return I want to be able to at least have a fair chance against the “hardcore” players. I prefer we just take gear (and thus time) out of the equation and have a match based on skill and strategy.

But again – if you prefer to have some gear progression in your PvP, try WvWvW with a level 2 and then again with a level 80. That should satisfy you.

Vile,

I see what you’re saying, “What’s the point of progressing if you don’t go anywhere? Like running on a treadmill.”

But I really do think you’re looking at it wrong and I think you’re doing so because of the way other MMOs are played. Have you ever played Starcraft? Counter-strike? How about plain-old Chess? All of these games start players off with -exactly- the same amount of “power” or “gear” yet they’re incredibly fun, awesome, and enduring games. Most importantly, a “noob” still gets totally and completely stomped into the ground! Best of all, it’s not because he couldn’t possibly win, but rather because you’re wayyyyyyy better. That’s akittengood feeling. Without gear, there’s no way to win if you suck. And that’s awesome…unless of course you suck!

Guild Wars 2 plays like those games. And if you want something to show that you’re as good as you are, armor and weapon customizations let you do that. Win/win!

Edit: Tried quoting but it was being weird. This is in reply to Vile.

The reward is fun and enjoyment, as is the reward from most games.

But on a more serious note, there is a gear progression. I don’t know why people seem to be disregarding the fact that there is like what 140 pvp levels? (14 tiers, I’m assuming 10 each not 100% sure on that) Each tier (rabbit, deer, etc) gives you access to a new set of cosmetic gear. It may have the same stats but it looks clearly different. This way when someone is walking around in a full set of mistwalker gear you know they have spent an ungodly amount of time in sPvP.

If that isn’t enough for you and you really need to have better stats so you can faceroll “noobs”, then you aren’t playing PvP because you enjoy the competition, you’re playing it so you can inflate your virtual ego.

“Btw I don’t mean to be rude or anything it’s just my vision of the state of this game which a lot of you guys don’t agree with which is perfectly fine.”

Your right there. But for the rest i need to disagree. You still have the option to do epic PvP that is in a huge part related to your gear, and while your at it your gonna have epic battles! Try out the WvWvW if you have not.

The sPvP was created to show of the skills and team work of all players on the battlefield. It isn’t about geting the gear to faceroll your way threw the ranks. Do tournament games get cooler gear, show it off and gain respect with your skills and not with grinding your way to the top. People who put in more time for sPvP will get much better at it then the rest and show of there skills and not shiny new gear.

You have defeated your enemy on equal grounds and with team work and skills alone! That is the feeling of self accomplishment and reward you get out of this game! The knowlegde your are better then they are…

Slethik.7319:

Vile,

I see what you’re saying, “What’s the point of progressing if you don’t go anywhere? Like running on a treadmill.”

But I really do think you’re looking at it wrong and I think you’re doing so because of the way other MMOs are played. Have you ever played Starcraft? Counter-strike? How about plain-old Chess? All of these games start players off with -exactly- the same amount of “power” or “gear” yet they’re incredibly fun, awesome, and enduring games. Most importantly, a “noob” still gets totally and completely stomped into the ground! Best of all, it’s not because he couldn’t possibly win, but rather because you’re wayyyyyyy better. That’s akittengood feeling. Without gear, there’s no way to win if you suck. And that’s awesome…unless of course you suck!

Guild Wars 2 plays like those games. And if you want something to show that you’re as good as you are, armor and weapon customizations let you do that. Win/win!

Humm that’s an interesting point of view. But yet in Starcraft you start on even ground but you can upgrade your stuff and to do so you need to spend more resources/time. You can and will hit harder than your enemy if you get those upgrades :P

Seriously though the Chess game is a pretty good example to illustrate your point and it makes perfect sens. I haven’t looked at it from this angle. I probably made an hasty judgment because I was frustrated by the lack of gear progression in PvP. So yeah I will reconsider and try to get THAT feeling elsewhere

You made a good point sir!

This PVP isn’t about a gear grind, it’s about casual players playing around with builds for fun or to see what they’ll level next.

It’s not as balanced as people are saying you’ll soon find out, there are a lot of cookie cutter builds popping up now and you’ll see a lot more players lean towards the more OP builds in the game.

Personally, i’m a pvp type person but the pvp in the game is horrible (my opinion… but I also got the game with a group of people who do the same as me and it’s been pretty mutual as are a lot of other people i’ve talked to). The PVE however is pretty nice i’ll have to admit and the WvWvW is pretty fun too.

PVE mode – you quest around, build up your player, fight mobs, do the dungeons and out gear things.
PVP mode – you zerg on a tiny map and make your character pretty as rewards.