Guild Wars 2

I have seen these same problems many times in MMORPGS. The players are bottle necked into the classes, and spec combinations that can be competitive anything else is scrapped; because honestly it sucks being killed even once in a pvp match with that slow motion stomp. Who would want that to happen 10 or more times in a match? Just search for GW2 PVP on you tube and you will see people with noncompetitive specs that die nearly every fight. You take any given team in any spvp match, and each team will more than likely have at least two thieves in it. The combination of the stealth heal move on number 6, plus double daggers, for the heart seeker spam, plus the double pistols for the unload makes the thief a class that breaks the game. Mix those 3 together and what do you have?

Zero initiative.

You have a class that is able to push one button, and run away when they are about to die. Then they are able to hide behind a little bush while they spam unload for about 12k damage in 6 seconds. The other option is they wait and heal up, then stalk you and wait for you to engage another person. Then they hit swiftness and stealth then appear behind you and spam heart seeker. If you don’t have a stun break off cool down you’re dead. Considering you only have 3 utility skills to assign, some poor people don’t even have a stun break available. My build uses 2 stun breaks, one on a 24 sec cool down, and one on a 48 second cool down. So this is not me whining, and if this turns into one of those threads were people like to troll others, for whatever reason I’ll just delete it. Close to 25%-40% of the spvp players are playing this class, with this weapon spec combination.

I killed an entire team last night in 3 seconds with my thief. Ran in with poisoned weapons, casted haste, then did the spinny whirl dagger thingy – everyone died. Absolutely rediculous. Oh…and for my heal i heal 100 hp every hit…so when im whirling i think i regenerate about 2000 hp a second.

Thief needs a nerf…or maybe other classes just need to hit as hard as thief or warrior.

I would like to mention the warrior wielding the great sword, that use the frenzy stance followed by hundred blades. Have you ever had all of your stun break moves on cool down, and been hit with this combo? A warrior with this combination can almost kill anyone even from full health in 2 seconds if that move lands. If the person uses a stun breaker then dodges, the warrior can switch to axe then devastate, and it is almost always over. The devastate can even get the tail end of the quickness buff, making it much harder to dodge. About 15%-25% of the players play this class, and combination greatsword/ axe shield, or double axe. This is another class combo people are bottle necked into playing; because its just so much more effective compared to anything else you could spec into as a warrior. Yes my percentages are my own estimations.

You certainly pull out a lot of %s without any back up….

The Absolute worst thing about pvp in GW2 is no friendly fire. I know what your saying friendly fire is stupid it was phased out in the 90s. Yeah but if we had friendly fire in GW2 let me explain to you why it would better. First siege weapons would change dramatically, all the sudden everyone is dodging the incoming artillery, instead of one team just running around inside of it finishing off the other team, its just stupid and not realistic at all the way it is now. Ranged classes that get in a group together can focus fire anyone down in seconds. It would be great to get in the middle of a group of ranged players, and have their bullets actually hit their own team. I mean they are firing right through their teammates head, and yet it does no damage, it goes through their team mate’s head and hits me in the back, come on where is the dynamic combat we heard about? I’m seeing the same thing as any other online game, a ranged group gets together, then single targets people from a distance. Except in this game there are no diminishing returns, so the person is just trapped their to be killed without much of a chance to fight back. I think having friendly fire on would make a richer, deeper, and more realistic combat system. Something that I think can never be achieved with friendly fire turned off.

I agree about siege weapons, but i think that Rangers should be left alone. With same philosophy we can say that Necromancer Marks should damage allies as well or Mesmers shattering illusions should harm your team. Maybe it would be more realistic but do you really want realism from the game where you can play as talking plant :P

People complain about thieves and mesmers and yadda yadda. I thought thief was the most underpowered when I first started pvp and abandoned it for a while. Then I learned to play it. Same with necro, warrior, elementalist, mesmer. I just didn’t know how to play them and thought each one sucked as bad as the last.

From what I read on GW2Guru Necro and Mesmer are most underwhelming classes in PvP. To tell you the truth i read also discussion where Thieves were ranting how weak they are :P

Really only wanted to chime in one one thing…

Ron.4920:

people with noncompetitive specs that die nearly every fight

How is this different than any other game out there? If you play a kittened spec, you’ll almost always lose, regardless of skill level.

I don’t have much trouble killing Thieves at all on my Warrior.

Signet of Rage+Bull’s Charge>Hundred Blades>Whirlwind Attack>Throw Bolas>Blade Trail>Rush>Endure Pain> Hundred Blades

I know that sounds like a lot, but it really only takes about 15 seconds, and NOTHING survives. I’ve even downed 3 people at once with this combo.

I totally disagree with the OP. Here is why:

Every class has their special abilities that if used properly in certain rotations and whatnot, can be totally devistating on the battlefield. The idea of nerfing a particular class (there is atleast 1 post per class wanting a nerf) is unballancing. This is not a troll post, this is to put things into perspective.

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

Seriously folks, learn to play the game a bit. This game has a learning curve… so learn it. Classes should not be ballanced. whats the point of that. Might as well be only 1 class if every class is good at the same things. Some classes match up well against others some not. That is why this is an MMO. You have to rely on your buddy left and right. Work as a team.

This game is not easy mode. You actually have to think a little bit about what your doing. Least that has been my expirence so far, and I am loving it. When possible “revive” is a teams friend. This comes down to learning the mechanics of the game and class abilities. Not just your class but the capibilities of other classes as well. Devise a stratagy to counter.

Kailthir.6384:

I totally disagree with the OP. Here is why:

Every class has their special abilities that if used properly in certain rotations and whatnot, can be totally devistating on the battlefield. The idea of nerfing a particular class (there is atleast 1 post per class wanting a nerf) is unballancing. This is not a troll post, this is to put things into perspective.

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

Seriously folks, learn to play the game a bit. This game has a learning curve… so learn it. Classes should not be ballanced. whats the point of that. Might as well be only 1 class if every class is good at the same things. Some classes match up well against others some not. That is why this is an MMO. You have to rely on your buddy left and right. Work as a team.

This game is not easy mode. You actually have to think a little bit about what your doing. Least that has been my expirence so far, and I am loving it. When possible “revive” is a teams friend. This comes down to learning the mechanics of the game and class abilities. Not just your class but the capibilities of other classes as well. Devise a stratagy to counter.

Name 1 ability (besides 100 blades) that either warriors, mesmers, ele’s, necros, guardians, rangers can spam and get away with it.

Heartseeker, pistolwhip and unload are the abilities that can literally be spammed and kill players from 100% – 0%.

You can argue about the dodge mechanics, stun breakers but overall we can only do 2 dodges and limited amount of stun breakers, while you can literally do 8 -12 heartseekers and pistolwhips back to back.

Those 3 need a nerf I dont think thiefs are overpowered i think those 3 abilities are overbuffed. I think the good place is to nerf their damage or utility and buff the damage sources for other thief’s attacks

Kailthir.6384:

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

please do go “on and on” because the only 2 classes that do need to be put in there place is the thief and warrior but i’d love to see how you think an elementalist or necro is op, or how about how op mesmers are because like rangers, they have long range attacks!

Syn.3459:

Kailthir.6384:

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

please do go “on and on” because the only 2 classes that do need to be put in there place is the thief and warrior but i’d love to see how you think an elementalist or necro is op, or how about how op mesmers are because like rangers, they have long range attacks!

You are totally missing the point. I never said one class was overpowered at all, i was saying the opposite. What my point is…. some classes take a little more thpought to take down than others. Instead of hack and slash, use a little bit of tactice. Rangers for example have many devistating moves on the battlefield. By the time you reach them you are severly damaged.

Add the pet like a bear as a tank, the ability to add extra damage to the next 5 shots combined with their aoe skill, and the knockback/knock down ablility of the longbow, they become powerful. Are they over powered… NO. Just takes a little more thought to get past their barrage.

Problem I see with alot of “MMO gamers” today is whenever the run into something difficult/challenging or something they can’t just steamroll thru… they scream “NERF, NERF, NERF!” or “(fill in with class) are so Over Powered!” Usually the case is that they are button mashers and have a singular rotation they use for everything. Or they picked the wrong skills/abilities or weapon for the situation. In otherwords they need to learn the ins and outs of the game or their class.

I see no nerfing to any class needed, or any class being over powered. Remember changing something in PvP drastically changes something in PvE. And this is first and formost a PvE game.

Kailthir.6384:

Syn.3459:

Kailthir.6384:

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

please do go “on and on” because the only 2 classes that do need to be put in there place is the thief and warrior but i’d love to see how you think an elementalist or necro is op, or how about how op mesmers are because like rangers, they have long range attacks!

You are totally missing the point. I never said one class was overpowered at all, i was saying the opposite. What my point is…. some classes take a little more thpought to take down than others. Instead of hack and slash, use a little bit of tactice. Rangers for example have many devistating moves on the battlefield. By the time you reach them you are severly damaged.

Add the pet like a bear as a tank, the ability to add extra damage to the next 5 shots combined with their aoe skill, and the knockback/knock down ablility of the longbow, they become powerful. Are they over powered… NO. Just takes a little more thought to get past their barrage.

Problem I see with alot of “MMO gamers” today is whenever the run into something difficult/challenging or something they can’t just steamroll thru… they scream “NERF, NERF, NERF!” or “(fill in with class) are so Over Powered!” Usually the case is that they are button mashers and have a singular rotation they use for everything. Or they picked the wrong skills/abilities or weapon for the situation. In otherwords they need to learn the ins and outs of the game or their class.

I see no nerfing to any class needed, or any class being over powered. Remember changing something in PvP drastically changes something in PvE. And this is first and formost a PvE game.

ok so you’re obviously a thief and you’re complaining that a ranged class is slowly dpsing you down because you’re too stubborn to swap your weapon set to a pistol and dps JUST AS MUCH

i’m guessing i’m missing your point again though, right? i didn’t even read past the first part btw

I like dual wielding swords with my warrior, stack condition damage, hit someone 2-3 times and watch their HP plummet 10k.

I have to say ATm.

I am playing Dual-axe and longbow spec thinking about rifle indtead.

My crit is around 50% (without Buffs) with about 23% more crit damage. I roll with all signets.

I went into groups of players and dropped over 4+ running in using +Rage signet, Doylack ( anti CC,snare slow), and might. and dual-axe WW.

I think Warriors are oped ATM. I can’t be that good. Some other specs like GS and Stances look nice too.

I hated beta so much. I played a necro and mez, so boring. I made the best decision ever rolling a warrior. SO much fun. I love smashing and moving to the next target.

I wanted to add, whats up with necros, eles and mezes trying to melee me?

I understand that this game doesnt have specific classes. But I am a Crit/Power/PErcison warrior, defense spec gurdians have trouble with me.

I faceroll anyone who doesnt try to kite me (hence long bow). Most people will run in melee with me for a couple of swings realize half their health is missing then try to kite.

Syn I am not a Thief at all. If you are not reading what I posted, then why are you commenting on my post? Makes no sense.

With the Ranger I was pointing out that another class can be just as powerful. Just have to learn the full ponential. Adapt a little.

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

I think the game Player Wars 2 is that way —-—>

Guild Wars kinda, sorta entails working with a group. Warriors have no Combo Fields, and are very direct damage dealers. Pretty much no AOE besides a fear. So if you see a warrior, immobilize, stun, and keep him rooted – just like in WoW – to prevent his damage from being that high. You do have a stun on your bar somewhere, right?

Of course, if your team is a bunch of pugs and no one is coordinating, then yes the coordinated team will win.

I am a Thief, and I think it’s just fine. This is mainly due to me escaping with my life at 1k health allllll the time. One little mishap and I’m dead – the same for every Thief – and it feels so right. I pride myself on not making mishaps. Yet I run into tons of other Thief players and kill them all the time – with my group and solo – and I realize it’s just the skill everyone’s going to rage about. The difference between the downed thief and me is that I made one less mistake.

Kailthir.6384:

Syn I am not a Thief at all. If you are not reading what I posted, then why are you commenting on my post? Makes no sense.

With the Ranger I was pointing out that another class can be just as powerful. Just have to learn the full ponential. Adapt a little.

because reading the first part you’re commenting on how rangers can slowly damage you because you’re melee so you’re saying it’s justifiable that if the said melee character gets in range he can destroy it in 5 seconds

but no, that isn’t the case at all, EVERY class has a ranged alternative which is viable.. how can you adapt to being destroyed by a melee character just because apparently according to you it’s so difficult to get into melee range so they deserve to hit for 5k+ constantly

noblue.8640:

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

you’re saying that if you don’t dodge you deserve to die? i know what, give every class an 8 second cd ability that is also a “don’t dodge = death” skill

Syn.3459:

Kailthir.6384:

Syn I am not a Thief at all. If you are not reading what I posted, then why are you commenting on my post? Makes no sense.

With the Ranger I was pointing out that another class can be just as powerful. Just have to learn the full ponential. Adapt a little.

because reading the first part you’re commenting on how rangers can slowly damage you because you’re melee so you’re saying it’s justifiable that if the said melee character gets in range he can destroy it in 5 seconds

but no, that isn’t the case at all, EVERY class has a ranged alternative which is viable.. how can you adapt to being destroyed by a melee character just because apparently according to you it’s so difficult to get into melee range so they deserve to hit for 5k+ constantly

Again i said nothing of the sort. If a warrior or thief is kicking the crap out of you in mele. Change yourkittentactics, change your weapons. Dont go toe to toe with them. Yes every class have mele and ranged capibility, some classes excell at one or the other. A clothy is not going to out mele a warrior… in 9/10 cases. Learn to kite. Use tactics.

You cannot just use the same tactics and or weapons with every enemy.

Kailthir.6384:

Syn.3459:

Kailthir.6384:

Syn I am not a Thief at all. If you are not reading what I posted, then why are you commenting on my post? Makes no sense.

With the Ranger I was pointing out that another class can be just as powerful. Just have to learn the full ponential. Adapt a little.

because reading the first part you’re commenting on how rangers can slowly damage you because you’re melee so you’re saying it’s justifiable that if the said melee character gets in range he can destroy it in 5 seconds

but no, that isn’t the case at all, EVERY class has a ranged alternative which is viable.. how can you adapt to being destroyed by a melee character just because apparently according to you it’s so difficult to get into melee range so they deserve to hit for 5k+ constantly

Again i said nothing of the sort. If a warrior or thief is kicking the crap out of you in mele. Change yourkittentactics, change your weapons. Dont go toe to toe with them. Yes every class have mele and ranged capibility, some classes excell at one or the other. A clothy is not going to out mele a warrior… in 9/10 cases. Learn to kite. Use tactics.

You cannot just use the same tactics and or weapons with every enemy.

where did i say anyone should be able to tank melee? i’m saying that the damage is over the top, NO class should be dropping others to such a low health within seconds just because they’re melee

maybe if you stopped being so ignorant you’d understand the problem, but alas, you’re a thief or warrior that isn’t listening to any of it because you don’t understand balance

Nope wrong again. I don’t play a warrior or a thief. I understand ballance very well. Ballance is an illusion. Some classes are good at mele damage which they are soposed to be (warrior thief etc) and others are not. Play to the strengths of your class.

Obviously a lightly armored class is not ment to go toe to toe mele with a heavly armored class. Ofcourse a clothy should be decimateed by a heavly armored, great sword wielding toon etc. This is a no brainer. If everyone was equal in everything what would be the point of having different classes.

I think the problem is you are running a class that is a support class or ranged class like it was a tank. A warrior is a damage dealer he is soposed to put out tons of damage. The thief is a damage dealer that is soposed to be fast (burst damage) and stealthy to mittigate damage taken. Check the profession descriptions again. It’s apparent you do not know the rolls of the classes and what they are soposed to do.

I see no reason to nerf any class or to boost others to “ballance” them out. If you are a support class or clothy etc. Stay out of mele… duhhh You are not soposed to be going toe to toe with a high damage dealer. This is commonsense. Again learn tactics.

This is the last post in this thread I will make. It’s apparent to me that a few people are crying “Nerf, Over Powered” etc. because they either are trying to use a class for something it is not intended to be or do not know how to adapt on the battlefield.

Good luck with your game expirence. Remember this is just a game, have fun with it.

Kailthir.6384:

Nope wrong again. I don’t play a warrior or a thief. I understand ballance very well. Ballance is an illusion. Some classes are good at mele damage which they are soposed to be (warrior thief etc) and others are not. Play to the strengths of your class.

Obviously a lightly armored class is not ment to go toe to toe mele with a heavly armored class. Ofcourse a clothy should be decimateed by a heavly armored, great sword wielding toon etc. This is a no brainer. If everyone was equal in everything what would be the point of having different classes.

I think the problem is you are running a class that is a support class or ranged class like it was a tank. A warrior is a damage dealer he is soposed to put out tons of damage. The thief is a damage dealer that is soposed to be fast (burst damage) and stealthy to mittigate damage taken. Check the profession descriptions again. It’s apparent you do not know the rolls of the classes and what they are soposed to do.

I see no reason to nerf any class or to boost others to “ballance” them out. If you are a support class or clothy etc. Stay out of mele… duhhh You are not soposed to be going toe to toe with a high damage dealer. This is commonsense. Again learn tactics.

This is the last post in this thread I will make. It’s apparent to me that a few people are crying “Nerf, Over Powered” etc. because they either are trying to use a class for something it is not intended to be or do not know how to adapt on the battlefield.

Good luck with your game expirence. Remember this is just a game, have fun with it.

Considering this game was supposed to break the holy trinity I don’t think I can take you seriously. There is no class strictly built for support and anyone with a brain can see that warriors deal far too much damage button for button. Oh and do they still get to keep their adrenaline if I dodge eviscerate? Everyone is supposed to be equal. Sorry but balance is a good goal to strive for. The flavors of each profession should be different, but pigeon holding people is only go to make them quit this game.

Syn.3459:

noblue.8640:

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

you’re saying that if you don’t dodge you deserve to die?

Yes, that’s exactly what should happen. If a player doesn’t dodge a lethal ability, they SHOULD die. Part of the skill element of this game is knowing how and when to dodge.

Reinhart.2703:

Kailthir.6384:

I totally disagree with the OP. Here is why:

Every class has their special abilities that if used properly in certain rotations and whatnot, can be totally devistating on the battlefield. The idea of nerfing a particular class (there is atleast 1 post per class wanting a nerf) is unballancing. This is not a troll post, this is to put things into perspective.

Instead of demanding a nerf for another class, how about finding ways in game or maybe trying to understand and play ur class better. If you nerf the Thief class cause of reasons the OP stated, might as well nerf the Rangers, their long range attacks and skills to do added damage and pets can devistate any other class as well. But wait how about the whirling attack of the warrior, that can also drop several enemies in a second or two. You can go on and on and on.

Seriously folks, learn to play the game a bit. This game has a learning curve… so learn it. Classes should not be ballanced. whats the point of that. Might as well be only 1 class if every class is good at the same things. Some classes match up well against others some not. That is why this is an MMO. You have to rely on your buddy left and right. Work as a team.

This game is not easy mode. You actually have to think a little bit about what your doing. Least that has been my expirence so far, and I am loving it. When possible “revive” is a teams friend. This comes down to learning the mechanics of the game and class abilities. Not just your class but the capibilities of other classes as well. Devise a stratagy to counter.

Name 1 ability (besides 100 blades) that either warriors, mesmers, ele’s, necros, guardians, rangers can spam and get away with it.

Heartseeker, pistolwhip and unload are the abilities that can literally be spammed and kill players from 100% – 0%.

Heartseeker costs 3 initiative (I think), Pistol Whip 5 and Unload 6. Thieves have 10 initiate as base, which can be increased to 3 and they can restore 3. Heartseeker isn’t all that dangerous until you reach below 33% hp, because then it becomes execution. If you are getting to 33% hp from 1 or 2 heartseekers, then you need more vitality or toughness, because if you can survive 4 heartseekers then that rogue has nothing else to do until his initiative regenerates.

As for pistol whip? The stun does not last as long as the attack animation. You can dodge and retaliate. Unload? Dodge or close the gap and smash their face in.

The problem with professions atm is no one knows their weaknesses (or are too ignorant to learn) and don’t know how to exploit them. If a rogue is engaged in a situation where he does not have control over it and cannot exploit his mobility through dodging and shadowsteps, he is one dead rogue.

Neglected.1260:

Syn.3459:

noblue.8640:

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

you’re saying that if you don’t dodge you deserve to die?

Yes, that’s exactly what should happen. If a player doesn’t dodge a lethal ability, they SHOULD die. Part of the skill element of this game is knowing how and when to dodge.

For a game with no dedicated healer people sure seem to be craving a lot of burst damage. The fact that the warrior doesn’t lose adrenaline for a miss ( pretty sure but I may be wrong) has a signet that generate adrenaline out of combat and has multiple CC abilities ( Bolas, Bull’s Rush to name a few) I think it’s unfair to expect every to play perfectly against that ONE CLASS and be allowed to make mistakes vs the others. Especially since there are not duels in this game. If you’re on a point fighting say an elementalist down him and go for a stomp, is it fair that the warrior can roll up to you with your back turned Bull’s Rush > Frenzy > 100B and kill you immediately? A good one watching for stun breakers and dodges can immediately floor someone at 100%.

Abarcine.7189:

Neglected.1260:

Syn.3459:

noblue.8640:

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

you’re saying that if you don’t dodge you deserve to die?

Yes, that’s exactly what should happen. If a player doesn’t dodge a lethal ability, they SHOULD die. Part of the skill element of this game is knowing how and when to dodge.

For a game with no dedicated healer people sure seem to be craving a lot of burst damage. The fact that the warrior doesn’t lose adrenaline for a miss ( pretty sure but I may be wrong) has a signet that generate adrenaline out of combat and has multiple CC abilities ( Bolas, Bull’s Rush to name a few) I think it’s unfair to expect every to play perfectly against that ONE CLASS and be allowed to make mistakes vs the others. Especially since there are not duels in this game. If you’re on a point fighting say an elementalist down him and go for a stomp, is it fair that the warrior can roll up to you with your back turned Bull’s Rush > Frenzy > 100B and kill you immediately? A good one watching for stun breakers and dodges can immediately floor someone at 100%.

I am saying on the principle, I am not getting involved with the condition of warriors etc at the moment as I have not played one I do not feel I have the ability to judge their power. :P

No one knows how to play their class, its clear as day. Thieves are so easy to kill its just not funny, and those one-button spam moves are easy to dodge and counter. We have at most 13 initiative, which is 4 heartseekers at most. If you can’t survive 4 of those you are way too squishy.

Moving on, you shouldn’t be alone in sPvP unless you roll a class that is great at 1v1 survival. Thieves roll alone because they have great 1v1 survival skills. 2v1? Not so much, and 3v1 even less. You want to stop a thief? CC and conditions. Blind=waste of initiative which is a very valuable resource. Confusion KILLS us because we attack so fast. Weakness kills our burst dmg for obvious reasons, and leaves us with you still mostly alive while we have 0 initiative.

If you’re sitting there trying to face-tank a thief you are doing it wrong. The same goes vs a mesmer. Classes like thieves and mesmers looooove those 1 vs 1 situations. Don’t play that game.

TL;DR- Make a thief waste his initiative. You can do this via blind, protection, weakness, and dodges. Chill is also fantastic.

Ron.4920:

I have seen these same problems many times in MMORPGS. The players are bottle necked into the classes, and spec combinations that can be competitive anything else is scrapped; because honestly it sucks being killed even once in a pvp match with that slow motion stomp. Who would want that to happen 10 or more times in a match? Just search for GW2 PVP on you tube and you will see people with noncompetitive specs that die nearly every fight. You take any given team in any spvp match, and each team will more than likely have at least two thieves in it. The combination of the stealth heal move on number 6, plus double daggers, for the heart seeker spam, plus the double pistols for the unload makes the thief a class that breaks the game. Mix those 3 together and what do you have?

Your thread wasn’t very clear, or if I misunderstood (which could very well be the case), then i apologize. Were you asking for PvP strats, or tips? If not, this is a players helping players forum, and not for venting about PvP not being fun.

Threads will probably be redirected when more of the forums open up, right now there is no place better for his thread and healthy discussion about how to deal with a class isn’t a problem. If it’s an issue the mods will lock the thread and they’re very active about keeping this forum clean. Not really any need for you to police it.

Back on point, while I think amradio was a little abrasive I think I have to agree with him. While people are always going to be a bit hurt about losing a 1v1 you have to realize that a thief and a mesmer are very much built for those engagements. However this game is not about 1v1, teamwork and synergy are what’s important in the long run. A thief while an excellent duelist has very low presence after their initiative is exhausted. Blinds from a guardian or a necromancer can effectively shut their burst down for a good while. They’re far from overpowered and I really don’t want to see a class nerfed for being good at 1v1, a very small fraction of PvP right now.

amradio.2513:

No one knows how to play their class, its clear as day. Thieves are so easy to kill its just not funny, and those one-button spam moves are easy to dodge and counter. We have at most 13 initiative, which is 4 heartseekers at most. If you can’t survive 4 of those you are way too squishy.

Moving on, you shouldn’t be alone in sPvP unless you roll a class that is great at 1v1 survival. Thieves roll alone because they have great 1v1 survival skills. 2v1? Not so much, and 3v1 even less. You want to stop a thief? CC and conditions. Blind=waste of initiative which is a very valuable resource. Confusion KILLS us because we attack so fast. Weakness kills our burst dmg for obvious reasons, and leaves us with you still mostly alive while we have 0 initiative.

If you’re sitting there trying to face-tank a thief you are doing it wrong. The same goes vs a mesmer. Classes like thieves and mesmers looooove those 1 vs 1 situations. Don’t play that game.

TL;DR- Make a thief waste his initiative. You can do this via blind, protection, weakness, and dodges. Chill is also fantastic.

I believe there may be a disconnect between two groups happening here.

I actually got to witness what the OP was talking about once tonight and I can understand what the problem is now. In brief, two asuran thieves took out 27 players, and got away scot free.

How could we be so bad we couldn’t kill two people?

Somehow, that I would like to figure out if possible, these two thieves…

• had 45s+ vigor, swiftness, fury, and regen at all times
• only used three skills: Deathblossom, Dodge, and Hide in Shadows
• were able to chain 4+ deathblossoms in a row (breaking the expected initiative drought)

Because of the Dodge/DB combo, they could not be hit by bolas, static field, crippling shot, mud field, or any other condition effects. The only ability that I saw successfully land was the knockback from the Guardian’s dome spell (since it overrides dodge), which did disable one of them briefly.

This has been completely abnormal from any other skilled thief I’ve fought to date, especially when I was running a skill setup specifically to counter the HS/Deathblossom build at the time.

What I suspect, is some smart players have found a skill/trait/gear(?) combination that allows the thief class to do something unintended and as a result we have players who have come up against it thinking the class as a whole has these characteristics.

Note:
The players in question were fought in WvW so I do not know the names. They were members of the Darkhaven server, and were farming the Tarnished Coast portal keep in the Sorrow’s Furnace Homeland on 9/8/2012.

Its funny when people say their putting things into perspective, but really its just their own opinion nothing more. Its also funny when people say this isn’t a trolling post. Then they proceed to imply in every sentence that there most be no other reason for my post or any post about a similar matter beyond we are bad players, and everyone else needs to be nerfed for us to compete. It just gets old, its just the same teenage response over and over again. You people plague ever forum just waiting to pounce on anyone about anything, you believe that if you can point out that someone is wrong it will somehow prove that you are intelligent, even if no one is actually wrong at all. So many people in the world see intelligence like its a game of jeopardy, where if you know the right answer you win the prize, and you’re seen as smart. In order for one person to be right, often times that person most prove another to be wrong. Is there truly a right or wrong, and if there is why can’t you prove it beyond opinion? In school we are taught that the right answer is the smart one, and we are rewarded for the right answer. Think about it for awhile.

@ Ron You may be right but it’s topic about PvP. I would be surprised if people wouldn’t lobby for their class.

To tell you the truth I think we shouldn’t be talking about nerfs for “too” good classes but for buffs for weaker ones. Yes, I know that some classes have higher learning curve than others, but when good (for example) Necro player is equivalent of average Warrior one can feel left out.

Dwok Immortalus.2763:

amradio.2513:

No one knows how to play their class, its clear as day. Thieves are so easy to kill its just not funny, and those one-button spam moves are easy to dodge and counter. We have at most 13 initiative, which is 4 heartseekers at most. If you can’t survive 4 of those you are way too squishy.

Moving on, you shouldn’t be alone in sPvP unless you roll a class that is great at 1v1 survival. Thieves roll alone because they have great 1v1 survival skills. 2v1? Not so much, and 3v1 even less. You want to stop a thief? CC and conditions. Blind=waste of initiative which is a very valuable resource. Confusion KILLS us because we attack so fast. Weakness kills our burst dmg for obvious reasons, and leaves us with you still mostly alive while we have 0 initiative.

If you’re sitting there trying to face-tank a thief you are doing it wrong. The same goes vs a mesmer. Classes like thieves and mesmers looooove those 1 vs 1 situations. Don’t play that game.

TL;DR- Make a thief waste his initiative. You can do this via blind, protection, weakness, and dodges. Chill is also fantastic.

I believe there may be a disconnect between two groups happening here.

I actually got to witness what the OP was talking about once tonight and I can understand what the problem is now. In brief, two asuran thieves took out 27 players, and got away scot free.

How could we be so bad we couldn’t kill two people?

Somehow, that I would like to figure out if possible, these two thieves…

• had 45s+ vigor, swiftness, fury, and regen at all times
• only used three skills: Deathblossom, Dodge, and Hide in Shadows
• were able to chain 4+ deathblossoms in a row (breaking the expected initiative drought)

Because of the Dodge/DB combo, they could not be hit by bolas, static field, crippling shot, mud field, or any other condition effects. The only ability that I saw successfully land was the knockback from the Guardian’s dome spell (since it overrides dodge), which did disable one of them briefly.

This has been completely abnormal from any other skilled thief I’ve fought to date, especially when I was running a skill setup specifically to counter the HS/Deathblossom build at the time.

---

What I suspect, is some smart players have found a skill/trait/gear(?) combination that allows the thief class to do something unintended and as a result we have players who have come up against it thinking the class as a whole has these characteristics.

---

Note:
The players in question were fought in WvW so I do not know the names. They were members of the Darkhaven server, and were farming the Tarnished Coast portal keep in the Sorrow’s Furnace Homeland on 9/8/2012.

Yeah, they were running a build something like;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYQQRAoY4alUm6Oney9E+5EB3Dji0k69gsjNsdkittenA;TwAgyCqo0yolQLrWOtkatEZIy2jZAA

(Forum says bad link, but copy/paste into web address and it works fine)

I threw it together kinda quickly, but the basic idea is to maximize stealths and utilizing smoke combos to rapidly go into stealth repeatedly while keeping all surrounding opponents blinded, and maintaining boon superiority, while poisoning/bleeding aoe style. I’d imagine two well coordinated thieves with some tweaks to this build would demolish whole groups of opponents. Unless you knew what they were doing and countered it… mostly by not standing in/near thier combo fields the whole time.

What you came across was a pair of good players who knew how to actually play their class.

Get used to it, and do it too. The more time that passes, the better people will get, especially when they really start mastering some of the less obvious parts of skillful play.

Neglected.1260:

Syn.3459:

noblue.8640:

Warriors are really good when you’re playing against inexperienced people. New players won’t dodge eviscerate, and don’t realize that sitting in 100 blades = death.

you’re saying that if you don’t dodge you deserve to die?

Yes, that’s exactly what should happen. If a player doesn’t dodge a lethal ability, they SHOULD die. Part of the skill element of this game is knowing how and when to dodge.

the ONLY class with a die or dodge ability is a warrior, maybe a rogue with spammable heartseekers too, you’re clueless though, no game mechanic in pvp(or even pve for that matter) should be reliant on whether or not your skill (in this case dodge) is on cd or not

lets give all classes this dodge or die ability and we’ll see this balance, but then again… it isn’t fair because theifs and warriors are melee and it’s so difficult to get into melee range that it’s justifiable for them to do 15k+ damage in 5 seconds

Why are 0 people complaining about guardians? it does not compute…
Honestly both me and my brother are not bad pvpers, he is a rogue and I am an engy. Everytime I fight a guardian in pvp all I see is “0” “immune” “0” “immune” “0” “immune”, all of the control abilities that I have as an engy and they NEVER work on guardians, my damage isn’t bad either by any means. When they get out of one shield they pop another one and another, if that wasn’t enough then just look at their heals, instant full heal when at best I have a half health heal. They have an insane buff that gives them around 10 seconds of 10 different boons, they don’t have to sacrifice damage for survivability either. If they are going to be THAT hard to kill at least give them crappy damage, if their damage wasn’t so good I could let all that insane survivability pass and just call it a tactic. Another thing, all the guardians I’ve seen ALL of them think pvp is perfectly balanced or they think they are amazing pvpers. Example: My friend who is a guardian has always sucked in pvp, and doesn’t know how to use dodge roll mechanics but now he is always bragging about how much he owns in pvp as a guardian.

Not enough? Every time we do dungeon pugs and have a guardian the guardian has been able to do tanking that no other class can do, seriously the strategy for the Graveling swarm trap fight has been let the guardian run around kiting all the gravelings while we pull traps, I have yet to see any other class do this. This game isn’t supposed to have tanking but it was laughable that our guardian was able to just stand in front of a boss the entire fight fighting it without rolling out at any point in time even when we wiped and he was left fighting alone he was still fighting it head on when we came back!

Please by all means if people can point out to me how Guardians are not probably the most OP class in the game then by all means go ahead. I would love to know how my engi and his thief can handle guardians because we have tried many many tactics to fight this class. Mind you we were both Arena junkies in WoW and Demon/Dark Souls veterans so dodge rolling and hotkey based pvp is nothing new to us.

Two weeks and kids already cry “nerf plox”?
Well, there’s WoW for that. Go rul0r there.

Amra.6028:

Two weeks and kids already cry “nerf plox”?
Well, there’s WoW for that. Go rul0r there.

And you are nothing but a fanboy who thinks the game is the holy grail, gods gift to gamers etc. You have made zero contributive posts, all you do is go around bashing anyone who doesn’t think the game is the perfect MMO

Seriously we are not here to bash the game, we are here because we want to help improve it.

Or perhaps you are just here to troll instead of playing the perfect game…

LMFAO, why is it, whenever anyone is playing one of the op classes, they tell others they are not playing their own class properly, l2p, and other bullkitten.

NEWSFLASH no combat in GW2 is hard, hell I have yet to find a single mmo that could be considered challenging or diffcult, GW 2 has an extremely simplistic combat system, there are no hidden rotations only 1% of the community can figure out, there are no builds requiring the sacrifice of virgins and chickens.

For those that really are challenged , there are always fan sites telling them how to play their class; for everyone else there is common sense, and most mmo gamers will arrive at the optimum build fairly quickly, it really is not hard.

There are classes that are stronger in pvp, some can be too strong, currently they are warrior and thief (incidentally thief complaints about being weak are pve not pvp, where they are not so hot with multiple en).

This lack of balance happens in every mmo when they are released, and hopefully, the developers are on the ball data mining and watching relative class balance and can change those mechanics that cause issue.

Further, in a class based system, there should never, ever, be a single class that can handle all other classes equally; there should always be a counter to your class. Such as the whine about guardian, melee only builds should be avoiding guardians, you burn them down using ranged abilities, ele’s are perfect; if he is hunkered down the whole time, he is effectively out of the fight.

Amra.6028:

Two weeks and kids already cry “nerf plox”?
Well, there’s WoW for that. Go rul0r there.

At the launch of any game, there are always balance problems, its not hard to figure out they will be duly commented on. Its a simple concept, and should be obvious to those with even the lowest IQ.

Hexcaliber.5714:

Further, in a class based system, there should never, ever, be a single class that can handle all other classes equally; there should always be a counter to your class. Such as the whine about guardian, melee only builds should be avoiding guardians, you burn them down using ranged abilities, ele’s are perfect; if he is hunkered down the whole time, he is effectively out of the fight.

Putting aside your personal beliefs on class countering, I have a few words for you on your ranged vs melee argument.
1. Ring around the reflective wall
2. retaliation boon projectiles are no exception
3. Zealot’s Defense
4. Shield of absorption
5. Shelter
6. Sanctuary
7. Renewed Focus

All of the above skills handle projectiles quite well and they can all be used together. If the number alone is not enough I can give you the stats on them as well.

ickytwerp.9086:

Amra.6028:

Two weeks and kids already cry “nerf plox”?
Well, there’s WoW for that. Go rul0r there.

And you are nothing but a fanboy who thinks the game is the holy grail, gods gift to gamers etc. You have made zero contributive posts, all you do is go around bashing anyone who doesn’t think the game is the perfect MMO

Seriously we are not here to bash the game, we are here because we want to help improve it.

Or perhaps you are just here to troll instead of playing the perfect game…

Oh yeah, “improve”.
All you want to improve is your rul0rism.

every class has weaknesses, l2p and exploit those weaknesses. pvp in this game is far from being solved.