Priority and order of stats in Gw2?

Priority and order of stats in Gw2?

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

hello,

Im working on several character and it seems I’m not doing so well for now.
It may be because im not choosing the right combination of stats with my gear and my upgrade mats used on the gear.
So i wanted to ask:
In other games (WoW for example), each class has 1-3 important stats (like strength to warriors, agility to hunters, etc, with vitality important as a 2nd choise for most), while the other stats are much less important.
Whats the situation in GW? my 2 main characters are a ranger and a mesmer. with both, im investing mostly in power, with some efforts switched between precision and vitality. toughness and healing are a bit neglected for now. Do I miss something? Is it need to be changed between weapon builds (for example – condition damage with mesmer’s staff, while scepter + pistol goes for simple dps?)

Thanks

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

There is a huge difference between end game stats and starter stats.
End game stats:
Beserker!
Beserker is power – precission – critical damage.
This is the meta for Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer and Engineer.
Only on Necromancer, ele and guardian there are other stats considered by many to be on par. For Necromancer: codition based stats (though conditions are bad designed in GW2, the necro uses them so much it is of use), The ele for example to use divitnity stats (a small bonus to all stats) and for Guardian to build more on healing power.

However. Bezerker (power, precission, critical damage) stats is not good for leveling! the reason is that you havent reach your full potential yet. Beserker means you hit very hard but you have little protection from your stats. This is countered by protective traits/skills and by dodging a lot. Having your base armor on the top level is important too. Off course, the closer you get to 80, the better beserker stats will be.

My adsvice: I can give you on a plate what to bring when leveling, but as said, the stats for level 80 are pretty set. So use the leveling time to try out alternatives. In WvW and in some situations, even at 80, beserker doesnt do what it needs to do. So try out a toughness/vitality set. Understand what is different and what it does to your effectiveness and sutvivabillity.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

Thanks
Im doing well on leveling. Right now, i prefer the scepter/pistol build on my mesmer – but when it comes to dungeons, im doing a bit bad.

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Posted by: Hayashi.3416

Hayashi.3416

Condi builds: Condition damage main, vitality second, toughness third. Only one of these may be used per party in PvE due to condition capping.

Direct damage builds: Power and precision main, critical damage third. Precision is more important than power at very high levels of critdmg%, power is more important than precision before that; never exceed 73% critrate no matter what as a ranger Spotter adds 7%, a warrior banner adds 8%, and fury adds 20%. Going over 100% critrate is a waste. For this cause most builds that can maintain fury uptime and with critrate increasing traits do better with pure Berserker. Mesmers are a general exception to this as they do not have reliable fury and generally don’t have good critrate increasing traits, so Assassin works better. Some thief builds are also exceptions.

Tanking builds: Toughness first, power second, healing power or vitality third. Not of much use except at high level fractals, fail parties and World vs. World.

Healing builds: Healing power first, toughness second, power third. Not of much use except at high level fractals, fail parties and World vs World. Also, only the Ranger, Engineer and Guardian in specific builds can do this role – every other class doesn’t have good multipliers per unit time on AoE heals.

This is in general. Different builds have different build-specific stats. Some stat combinations are useless because those stats are never used together.

Most speedruns consist of multiple berserkers/assassins with one healer/tank. Failed runs usually consist of nothing but berserkers with bad players. Slow runs consist of multiple people with heal/survivability stats or more than one condition damager. Maxed runs consist of a dire ranger/rabid necro, 1-2 berserker warriors, 1 assassin mesmer, a celestial elementalist and a cleric guardian in the place of the second berserker warrior for especially difficult content – but this only works within elite groups, the kind that take WvW keeps and Orr Temples with a single party – chances are, you haven’t seen any. Attempting to find 4 players good enough to pull off a maxed run in a PuG is impossible; the most reliable bet to roll for speed in a PuG is a berserker warrior, and the most reliable bet to roll for non-wiping in a PuG is a celestial elementalist.

Or you can bring whichever combination would work best between the other 4 members of your PuG team and the dungeon characteristics, but you’d need to have multiple specialised 80s to pull that off. Stats are tied to weapon, utility skills, traits, runes and sigils; changing a trait build often changes the optimum gear combination.

If not min/maxing and just trying to get by, the simple answer for an above average build is ‘as many soldier pieces as you need to keep you alive and berserker in everything else’.

Rangers are mainly a condition class by the way. You’ll achieve meh performance with a full direct damage spec with the sword mainhand that you can use anywhere, or good performance with a full condition spec that you can only use if no other condition user is in the group.

… don’t use direct damage on the longbow or you’re going to have a bad time.

And lastly, the scepter’s autoattack on a mesmer is bad for direct damage. Its other skills are relatively good, but you’ll need a Sword mainhand in your alternate set; the scepter-inclusive set’s going to be used only for its other skills. The scepter’s main purpose is actually on condition clone explosion builds.

(edited by Hayashi.3416)

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

That’s surely a lot to think about
Thanks for the advice

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Some misconception here. Berserker is the best stats for pretty much everybody because Direct Damage is the best choice right now. Other option?

Condition Damage : Its Rabid Gear (Condition, Toughness, Precision). Some profession are great for that (Necromancer and Engineer on top). But still, how condition work, yours powerful condition will diminish the condition from others (even if they are full Direct Damage, they will still give some condition). Meaning that even if you have good DPS with condition, overall you gonna decrease the party dps.

Healing : Most build (even full zerker one) can survive most encounter if you know what to do. Meaning that your heal won’t help at all except to give some breathing room, when things go bad.

Tank : Well that just don’t exist. You can really control the aggro. One way to partially do that is with a Guardian with a balance Toughness/DPS build. Most of the time he gonna have the aggro, but its not 100% sure. So not a good way to go.

This mean that your ultimate goal is to become full DPS (meaning Full Beserker Gear and Full DPS trait). Of course not everybody can do that, especially when you are new and don’t quite yet know the game. The trick here is to create a build with some defensive stats (from trait or gear pick your choice). Just enough defense so you can stay alive. As you become more comfortable with the game you decrease your defense gradually until you reach a point where you can’t go lower without dying too much. Hopefully you will be full DPS at this point, but maybe not. And you know what, its not a big deal. If your final build is dps trait and full Berseker gear with 3 pieces of Knight (Toughness, Power, Precision), this is good. You are better with a bit less dps and enough survivability to stay alive, that full DPS but always down. Your lucky, because Mesmer is probably the easiest profession to go Full DPS. Some really good DPS trait also give you defensive stats and your illusion will take most of the beating, leaving you alive.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

(edited by Thaddeus.4891)

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Posted by: Carpboy.7145

Carpboy.7145

Some misconception here. Berserker is the best stats for pretty much everybody because Direct Damage is the best choice right now. Other option?

Condition Damage : Its Rabid Gear (Condition, Toughness, Precision). Some profession are great for that (Necromancer and Engineer on top). But still, how condition work, yours powerful condition will diminish the condition from others (even if they are full Direct Damage, they will still give some condition). Meaning that even if you have good DPS with condition, overall you gonna decrease the party dps.

Healing : Most build (even full zerker one) can survive most encounter if you know what to do. Meaning that your heal won’t help at all except to give some breathing room, when things go bad.

Tank : Well that just don’t exist. You can really control the aggro. One way to partially do that is with a Guardian with a balance Toughness/DPS build. Most of the time he gonna have the aggro, but its not 100% sure. So not a good way to go.

This mean that your ultimate goal is to become full DPS (meaning Full Beserker Gear and Full DPS trait). Of course not everybody can do that, especially when you are new and don’t quite yet know the game. The trick here is to create a build with some defensive stats (from trait or gear pick your choice). Just enough defense so you can stay alive. As you become more comfortable with the game you decrease your defense gradually until you reach a point where you can’t go lower without dying too much. Hopefully you will be full DPS at this point, but maybe not. And you know what its not a big deal. If your final build is dps trait and full Berseker gear with 3 people of Knight (Toughness, Power, Precision), this is good. You are better with a bit less dps and enough survivability to stay alive, that full DPS but always down. Your lucky, because Mesmer is probably the easiest profession to go Full DPS. Some really good DPS trait also give you defensive stats and your illusion will take most of the beating, leaving you alive.

This guy sums it up well, at least for now since youre new. Those first two posts are so wrong tho. If you bring a healing or condi build into a dungeon youre asking to be kicked


The Use of the Word ‘Cheese’
Lyss The Shadow
Legendary Champion of DB [EDGE]

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Posted by: Rouven.7409

Rouven.7409

Honestly, check out the profession forums. That might help you more. There are usually some synergies between your traits, weapons and weapon-swap. Get some ideas and see how that plays out for you.

Don’t worry about the stats on your gear until your 80. In general yes, rule of thumb is learn when to dodge/interrupt if possible and maximize dps. For party play bring some utilities.

“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

However. Bezerker (power, precission, critical damage) stats is not good for leveling! the reason is that you havent reach your full potential yet. Beserker means you hit very hard but you have little protection from your stats. This is countered by protective traits/skills and by dodging a lot. Having your base armor on the top level is important too. Off course, the closer you get to 80, the better beserker stats will be.

I’ve done the reverse for all my characters. The reason is slightly faster leveling and it will force you to learn the class. At lv80 I carry multiple sets for different situations.

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

So, it means that ranger is a lose-lose situation? either you go for straightforward dps with a longbow and get a so-so dps, or else you go for condition build with a shortbow and get screwed if there’s another condition applier in the party?

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Posted by: Carpboy.7145

Carpboy.7145

So, it means that ranger is a lose-lose situation? either you go for straightforward dps with a longbow and get a so-so dps, or else you go for condition build with a shortbow and get screwed if there’s another condition applier in the party?

No, you go Sw/Wh with spotter and frost spirit, get top tier DPS, and give good support to your party


The Use of the Word ‘Cheese’
Lyss The Shadow
Legendary Champion of DB [EDGE]

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

Sword? checked it but it seems most attacks are melee based.
and what’s a spotter?

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Posted by: noobgood.8762

noobgood.8762

Spotter is a 20 point trait in Marksmanship.

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Posted by: Carpboy.7145

Carpboy.7145

Yes sword is all melee. There is no ranged weapon in the game that does more DPS than a melee one. Risk vs reward would be completely backwards. Spotter is a major trait in marksmanship that gives a perma +150 precision to you and your allies.


The Use of the Word ‘Cheese’
Lyss The Shadow
Legendary Champion of DB [EDGE]

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Posted by: Hayashi.3416

Hayashi.3416

So, it means that ranger is a lose-lose situation? either you go for straightforward dps with a longbow and get a so-so dps, or else you go for condition build with a shortbow and get screwed if there’s another condition applier in the party?

Half-correct as the direct dps build is sword/dagger shortbow. This is why the theorycrafting subgroup has been constantly asking for condition limit increases, and for the power multiplier on ranger sword and GS to be raised. At present an optimised melee ranger does only about 4500 direct dps relative to the condition 5100 dps potential on its other sets, relative to the 8100 direct dps potential on an axe warrior. The main use of the ranger at present is for PvP and WvW content as a condition build.

Most rangers use a really bad 3500 dps berserker build though, known as ‘bearbows’, which makes the class seem even worse than it actually is, doing even less damage than the sword build.

(edited by Hayashi.3416)

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

ouch :/
thanks for the explantion though

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

what don’t help the ranger even more is that their best build (sword), is hard to master. It have long animation during witch you can’t dodge, meaning that you have to learn how to use your skill and to break the animation before dodge if some situation. Since this can be hard when you begin to use that with a full dps build, most people die a lot when they learn to play that build.

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

Let me check if I understood: Gw2 require ranged classes to make themselves 70%+ melee to get a decent dps? (leave condition build aside for now).

I mean – making melee weapons dps abit higher to balance to need to move more is one thing, and making ranged classes make much lower dps in total unless they take a melee weapon is another thing…

(edited by Envinyatar.9432)

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Posted by: Carpboy.7145

Carpboy.7145

There is no such thing as a ranged class. Only ranged weapons


The Use of the Word ‘Cheese’
Lyss The Shadow
Legendary Champion of DB [EDGE]

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

a ranged class is a class that speciliaze mostly with ranged weapons and hitting from a distance, paying for it with lighter armor, less life, etc?
Or else range weapons are drawbacked and nearly absolute in mazes?

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

There is no such thing as a ranged class. Only ranged weapons

There are some classes that only can use ranged weapons though (not counting summoned weapons like kits or flame axes)

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

Let me rephrase my question:
Is there a ranged class (with a range weapon used) that can do well in dungeons? Not asking for top dps, just for a good preformance

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Posted by: noobgood.8762

noobgood.8762

Let me rephrase my question:
Is there a ranged class (with a range weapon used) that can do well in dungeons? Not asking for top dps, just for a good preformance

The meta knows only 1 exception. The allmighty Staff Ele Top tier DPS, a simple skill rotation and dies as soon as something looks at you… Don’t try it unless you want a challenge!

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Posted by: Envinyatar.9432

Envinyatar.9432

Sounds like grim news…
(did tried it once, deleted the character after dying non-stop to normal creatures at her level)

My favorite character and playstyle in all mmorpg’s that i played are strongly tied to the ranger/hunter class (Both in warcraft and Lord of the rings online), pity that in guildwars – a game which I like much more then those 2, the rangers is close to worthless in pve group-play

(edited by Envinyatar.9432)

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Posted by: AdaephonDelat.3890

AdaephonDelat.3890

Sword? checked it but it seems most attacks are melee based.
and what’s a spotter?

I use a Sword/Dagger Ranger and honestly I’ve got to say it’s one of the more fun classes I’ve used. The evades on Sword #2 and # 3 and Dagger #4 are brilliant. Give the sword a go (it may take a little while to get used to) but for me it’s one the more fun weapons in the game.

Also you can switch the Dagger out for a Torch to get a nice fire field for people to blast which can be quite useful.

[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Let me rephrase my question:
Is there a ranged class (with a range weapon used) that can do well in dungeons? Not asking for top dps, just for a good preformance

Ya. If you build full DPS you character any profession can do well in dungeon, because dungeon are easy. Now, you may have some problem because most people in dungeon will ask you to stack (because this is the best strategy for several stuff). My friend use a thief (almost full DPS except some trait for more stealth). He use shortbow most of the time, except when we need to stack, then he use Sword/pistol so he can evade in melee. That’s not the best gameplay or build, but he don’t care and i don’t care because its my friend, a really good player and he bring a full DPS Elemetalist when we want to do a real min/max speed run. Same thing with Ranger. If you want a short or longbow, then use a much DPS as you can and bring a secondary melee weapons when people will stack. You won’t be perfect but you will be able to help you team and do a really decent job. The problem is that a lot of people are Hypocrite. They will run a Warrior GS Axe/Mace Meta but they will hide the fact that they bring Knight gear or defensive trait, etc. They will look your Ranger like it was a kitten but at the end if you are full DPS ranger with a bow you may do more DPS that they do with their kittenty build that they hide behind a false meta looks. This should not happen, but what do you want to do with that. Your best shot at a Range profession would be Elementalist Staff. If you can’t survive full DPS you can still take some defensive gear pieces or some defensive trait and hide yourself behind a meta looks. Just don’t get kitteny and act like you run a real meta if you don’t.

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