Guild Wars 2

I am a seller soloing arah p2 and today a buyer came in and in a few seconds , less than a minute, he was next to me and going after Brie to finish her… It was a warrior. I have been doing arah for a while now, and from the waypoint it is possible to get there this fast, but I was in combat at the time so he couldnt take the waypoint, which leave me with no clue on how he scammed me.. any idea ? a way to prevent this would be great .

A simple solution would be to not hold the boss at 1%.

Just fight her the way she was intended to be fought. Warriors and thieves are easily capable of doing it.

If the person TELEPORTED, then it was a hack. If it took several minutes to get to you from the moment they entered, then they used a ‘jumping puzzle.’ I know a few ways to jump to get to Brie from the start, no waypoints required so that’s certainly possible.

BTW, I’d edit the name, naming and shaming is against the forum rules.

locoman.1974:

BTW, I’d edit the name, naming and shaming is against the forum rules.

agreed. you might get infracted for putting their name here. and a mod will definitely edit it out when they find it.

Owned.

I doubt Anet is going to bother with this. Selling dungeons is a do at your own risk thing. Anet frowns upon it, but it isn’t necessarily breaking any rules. Bigger fish to fry than people getting scammed out of selling dungeons.

Lol what?

Afaik this is abuse of game mechanics – boss should restore health if u leave/avoid combat. This part of gave is broken.

So u get abused – because of abuse the game.

These dungeos sellers are annoying. When I looking for group – I just see full list of SELLERS – there are no normal group.

Looking for dungeon system is also broken.

Let’s go abuse sellers!

selling dungeons? Might I ask how this works? In other games where you just pay people to complete the dungeon for you?

You usually solo/duo a path and sell the other spots. Selling was a good thing few months ago but now that the prices dropped it’s not money-efficient anymore.

rapthorne.7345:

selling dungeons? Might I ask how this works? In other games where you just pay people to complete the dungeon for you?

It helps to have a friend with you. you will nearly complete the dungeon path, then list a lfg clearing saying you’re selling it. 3 people will join. If they each send you 5g (for example), then all’s good and you finish off the final boss like normal and everyone gets dungeon rewards. If they don’t, you kick them and relist the lfg. It kinda works because it would take a potential buyer longer to run to the end than it takes for you to kick them. OPs problem was that this last part didn’t work. I’m assuming he did it alone, in which case it’s harder to kick someone if they don’t pay (need to rely on getting another buy to agree to kick).

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

Blude.6812:

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

Blude.6812:

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

Care to give us a reason?
If someone can solo (or duo) a dungeon path, why can’t they sell it?

It benefits everyone, the seller gets money from it and the buyer gets the tokens that they wanted.

And don’t even count the sellers that kick others from the group to sell slots, those are a completely different thing than legit sellers.

Running services have been around the series since Guild Wars 1, this is no different.

Andrax.4576:

Blude.6812:

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

And don’t even count the sellers that kick others from the group to sell slots, those are a completely different thing than legit sellers.

Open to abuse, that reason alone is enough to end it.
Greed—the other reason.
But if either one(buyer/seller) gets scammed/kicked-too bad.

Abuse is made by white knights like you that have no idea of how it works. Guess what? You can get scammed in normal dungeons runs. Hope you never did one, cause that deserves a ban. Well, since real life is open to abuse, I get we should all die now, since it’s a good reason to end it. Selling is perfectly fine and there should be a in game way to protect both buyers and sellers.

oxtred.7658:

(…) there should be a in game way to protect both buyers and sellers.

I guess it’s as simple as this – you never get an answer when it comes to gentleman agreements between players. Report the player in question, I’m certain Anet will take action if they deem the player spoils the game for too many others or is using exploits etc.

They allow this as long as it is beneficial for the majority of players. If at one point it is not anymore then they will most likely make it not an option anymore instead of adding an official “protected” way of selling dungeon paths – in my opinion.

edited typo

Nothing wrong with soloing a path.

Using an exploit of the game mechanics to solo a path is questionable, but I agree that it’s Anet’s fault you are able to do so (that will NOT keep you from getting banned if Anet decides what you are doing IS an official “exploit”).

Charging someone to tag along while you solo the path via said exploit is, at the very least, very questionable.

Wanting Anet to punish a “rider” that ruined your plan to “sell” your exploit dungeon run is laughable.

Thinking Anet will put something in place so this practice is a legitimate way to make gold is simply delusional.

I didn’t think this post was posted to garner sympathy. Fact is, selling great and fine if done legitimately.

But about him somehow getting to Brie without you noticing and much quicker than seemingly possible? That’s actually concerning and I’m glad you’ve mentioned it.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

(…)

But about him somehow getting to Brie without you noticing and much quicker than seemingly possible? That’s actually concerning and I’m glad you’ve mentioned it.

Would/Could that be considered an exploit that should be reported as such instead of posted on the forum? If that is the case here, I don’t know if it’s possible.

Yeah because offering a service for currencies is a spawn of devil. People wants a dungeon run, they are willing to sponsor the guy who did it for them. They get xp, tokens and possibly an achievement, and they send gold to justify the time taken by the seller. I myself don’t sell run anymore, I just give them either in fl or lfg, but I won’t let people nice enough to make dungeons runs buyable with gold getting insulted like they are doing something wrong. This practice is an interaction between a buyer and a seller. Just like TP. As far as I know, they won’t ban a TP user, nor they will question the way any in game achievements was done. If you don’t want to buy, don’t. But don’t act like you’re sheltering against the evil when you are deleting the interaction between players and the gentleman agreement that dungeon selling should be. Most, if not all, dungeons soloers are also those guys you’ll see in the dungeon subforum or in the noob guild, helping people getting better at the game, while you’re accusing them of breaking the game’s rules.

Rouven.7409:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

(…)

But about him somehow getting to Brie without you noticing and much quicker than seemingly possible? That’s actually concerning and I’m glad you’ve mentioned it.

Would/Could that be considered an exploit that should be reported as such instead of posted on the forum? If that is the case here, I don’t know if it’s possible.

Well i think that’s why he was posting. He asked if anyone knew of how he might have done this (legitimately or illegitimately)

oxtred.7658:

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

As I see it, if you can solo something designed for 5 players, then it needs to be rebalanced so that it needs 5 people.

dancingmonkey.4902:

oxtred.7658:

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

As I see it, if you can solo something designed for 5 players, then it needs to be rebalanced so that it needs 5 people.

Once you do that, 95% (no this isn’t a real statistic, but my point is MOST of the player base who is casual) will be alienated entirely from dungeon running.

Those people soloing? They want more challenge! That’s why they solo. The vast majority of the playerbase? They struggle with spider queen.

Yeah ok, make dungeons 5x harder. Then we’ll still solo it, and you’ll have to buy them because they’re impossible. Great idea, 10/10.

dancingmonkey.4902:

oxtred.7658:

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

As I see it, if you can solo something designed for 5 players, then it needs to be rebalanced so that it needs 5 people.

• “Designed for 5 players” — which five players? Expert players? “Average” players (assuming we even know what that means)? Novice players? Or the lowest common denominator of those able to use skills?
• “Needs 5 people” — why do dungeons have to require 5 people? Isn’t the game more interesting when people are allowed to invent challenges the developers never dreamed of?
• Soloing content is an honored tradition in RPGs and even MMOs. Is there any reason to prohibit it?
  ——————————
  Anyhow, we’re completely off topic. The OP wanted to know if there was a way for someone to get from the start of Arah to the end boss so quickly.

youle.5824:

I am a seller soloing arah p2 and today a buyer came in and in a few seconds , less than a minute, he was next to me and going after Brie to finish her… It was a warrior. I have been doing arah for a while now, and from the waypoint it is possible to get there this fast, but I was in combat at the time so he couldnt take the waypoint, which leave me with no clue on how he scammed me.. any idea ? a way to prevent this would be great .

@OP: I never think it’s worth a player’s time to complete an investigation into potential exploiting or game abuse. If you think someone exploited, report them by creating a support ticket, offering as much evidence as you have. ANet has tools that we don’t to figure out what’s going on. You’ll only be wasting ANet’s time if you report people without good reason; in this case, it seems like you have cause to be suspicious.

Other posters are correct, however, that a single report might not lead to any action you can see. That’s why it’s important to file the report: yours might be the first or the 5th and either way, that will affect how ANet approaches their investigation and decides how to respond.

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

And about the actual issue in the thread? The possible exploit?

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

I only read the OP a few times, but it sounds to me like he’s trying to figure out how it was possible. I don’t think he was asking you to take actions against the player.

were you just standing there getting hit by the boss during all of this? just wondering how you managed to stay in combat.

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

Even if they’re screwing over other players? If they’re trolling the seller? When are you going to do something about it? Is the only way that you’re going to take action is if someone is “exploiting” the run?

Mystic.5934:

were you just standing there getting hit by the boss during all of this? just wondering how you managed to stay in combat.

You stay in combat with brie when you’re outside her “dome” She doesn’t reset. She will send waves of mobs at you, but if you kill them, you can chill w/ her @ 1%.

Chris’s response makes it pretty clear that while selling is “allowed”, it’s not something they support or endorse. Any complaints regarding scamming or trolling involving sold runs is likely to be treated as a very low priority, if they address it at all. Sell/buy runs at your own risk.

oxtred.7658:

Blude.6812:

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

soloing a path is fine but to me the whole idea of buying and selling dungeon runs is cheap and discourages people from actually trying to do it

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

Even if they’re screwing over other players? If they’re trolling the seller? When are you going to do something about it? Is the only way that you’re going to take action is if someone is “exploiting” the run?

Reread what he said. They are never going to do anything about it. Dungeons listed via LFG that people are trying to sell that are then completed by 1 or more of the people who join before the seller was “ready” is not an infraction of any possible kind. People join dungeon groups to complete dungeons. Anet doesn’t see people joining a dungeon group and then finishing said dungeon as “screwing over” the other members of the group. Sell at your own risk has been the policy since day one when selling started to become popular. Anet allows it because it’s not actually an exploit, but if you get screwed out of money for a botched sale, it’s your own kitten problem.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

oxtred.7658:

Blude.6812:

Wah!!! WTG buyer! No sympathy what so ever!!1

Seriously though ANet needs to make it a bannable offence for for both sellers and buyers.

Please tell me what’s wrong with soloing a path, I’m listening.

soloing a path is fine but to me the whole idea of buying and selling dungeon runs is cheap and discourages people from actually trying to do it

Why do you feel so?

If it is because you think there would be more normal parties without selling, the people buying those paths are typically those that just want those tokens for something but hate running dungeons. I have been teamed up with those in the past when dungeon selling was not a thing yet, and believe me, be glad they can get their instant gratification now. Nothing is worse than running dungeons with people who actually don’t want to be there that complain, let themselves be carried and don’t bother to learn the mechanics or improve. That isn’t to say that none of them would just suck it up and do their best, but it got bad when you ended up with one of those that couldn’t get over it. I remember people going (brain-)afk using range auto-attack for whole boss fights and whatnot, suddenly playing better when threatened with kicks.

If it is because you think it devalues the achievement of completing a dungeon, or completing enough for certain rewards/titles, many of these people would find a way to get it with as little effort as possible anyway. Different degrees of leeching as I said above, or relying on guildies/friends, or just slowly by doing only the easiest paths. My suggestion is that you don’t let this bother you, your achievements only really mean something to yourself as only you know fully what you had to learn and go through to get them. Most of these people just want the skins for dress-up reasons, though those doing it for AP and titles I will never understand (showing off with something you never did?), but I don’t care either way.

On topic though, I can imagine Anet does not want to set up a system for preventing this. It is a form of emergent gameplay that was invented by players, and as long as it does not go against the ToS they will condone it, but I doubt they will go through efforts to create new systems to enhance something they did not plan on making possible themselves. If you think someone exploits to troll or abuse you though, be sure to report it.

Zaxares.5419:

Chris’s response makes it pretty clear that while selling is “allowed”, it’s not something they support or endorse. Any complaints regarding scamming or trolling involving sold runs is likely to be treated as a very low priority, if they address it at all. Sell/buy runs at your own risk.

That’s my take on this situation.

I’m guessing a bit of searching on the internet will answer your question of how the player was able to ruin your run….very unlikely (if it is an “exploit”) it would remain a secret for long.

Woljnir.7810:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

Even if they’re screwing over other players? If they’re trolling the seller? When are you going to do something about it? Is the only way that you’re going to take action is if someone is “exploiting” the run?

Reread what he said. They are never going to do anything about it. Dungeons listed via LFG that people are trying to sell that are then completed by 1 or more of the people who join before the seller was “ready” is not an infraction of any possible kind. People join dungeon groups to complete dungeons. Anet doesn’t see people joining a dungeon group and then finishing said dungeon as “screwing over” the other members of the group. Sell at your own risk has been the policy since day one when selling started to become popular. Anet allows it because it’s not actually an exploit, but if you get screwed out of money for a botched sale, it’s your own kitten problem.

Yeah well said.

I think it would be a poor decision for them to encourage people to sell dungeon runs anyways because it not only will increase the occurrences of people kicking others in pug teams to sell the slots (hasn’t happenened to me before and probably won’t ever -knock on wood-), but it’s kind of against the intended purpose of dungeon rewards to begin with. You’re supposed to actually do the dungeons. Assisting people and/or encouraging them to sell dungeon paths contradicts it.

It’s great that they allow it, but bad that they don’t have a good way of handling people that exploit the paths and sell them. Those noobs don’t deserve to reap benefits of something they cheated to complete.

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

If they get into my group, am i well within my right to kick them when the boss is at 1%?

oxtred.7658:

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

If they get into my group, am i well within my right to kick them when the boss is at 1%?

As long as you have a reason, and someone in your party seconds your kick then yes. Its a kitten move either way, but its acceptable based on current set up.

If you don’t have a reason, and the kickee reports you then there is the possibility of the full wrath of anet coming down on you.

My reason is, I want to sell a spot, and they are taking a spot themselves.

The community is pretty good overall, why are you trying to make the LFG an unfriendly environment? Well, who cares, the instance owner changes will break selling. I wonder if selling LS is a thing? But hey, Anet has the advantage in there, they already have the gemstore.

I’m on the fence about selling. On one hand, it’s cool that people who want the armour skins (or whatever they want from the dungeon) can get them without having to grind something they hate. But on the other hand, it makes the game look trashy and yucky. No one wants to see gold spammers selling their gold and advertising their “services” in chat, and I don’t want to see the same thing in the lfg tool. I’m fully aware of the differences – one is legal and one isn’t, but either way, it looks trashy and dirty, and I’m not at all surprised that it’s a drama magnet.

oxtred.7658:

My reason is, I want to sell a spot, and they are taking a spot themselves.

The community is pretty good overall, why are you trying to make the LFG an unfriendly environment? Well, who cares, the instance owner changes will break selling. I wonder if selling LS is a thing? But hey, Anet has the advantage in there, they already have the gemstore.

I think this general attitude is why many players consider the entire process of selling Dungeon Runs as a seedy and undesirable method to earn gold. Whether you do what you stated or not, the fact that you would type this here means you’ve thought about doing it just to earn more profit (I’m not saying you HAVE done it).

I also don’t get your comment about blaming Anet….the change they are making is to IMPROVE the entire Instanced Party system , not intentionally hurt Dungeon Runners.

You taking it personally and using it as an excuse to be hostile to other players is just childish.

I was just in group for arah p2 with a warrior with less than 3k ap, everything went smoothly and I managed to duo Lupi with him, but he starts acting out when we get to alphard because I pick up the FGS instead of him. I tell him its better on thief, but he just runs off and sulks in a corner the entire fight, starts cursing me for being a stupid thief and says something about soloing and making more gold then me. I can’t say his name here because of the rules, but he was acting very rude and provoking all of us. Someone called him useless later and tried to kick him, but I told them he is instance owner. He kept on daring us to kick him and finally left right before the last boss (this after afking in the same spot). I blocked him later, but I’m just glad they are finally patching this (and I say this as a seller also).

Brother Grimm.5176:

oxtred.7658:

My reason is, I want to sell a spot, and they are taking a spot themselves.

The community is pretty good overall, why are you trying to make the LFG an unfriendly environment? Well, who cares, the instance owner changes will break selling. I wonder if selling LS is a thing? But hey, Anet has the advantage in there, they already have the gemstore.

I think this general attitude is why many players consider the entire process of selling Dungeon Runs as a seedy and undesirable method to earn gold. Whether you do what you stated or not, the fact that you would type this here means you’ve thought about doing it just to earn more profit (I’m not saying you HAVE done it).

I also don’t get your comment about blaming Anet….the change they are making is to IMPROVE the entire Instanced Party system , not intentionally hurt Dungeon Runners.

You taking it personally and using it as an excuse to be hostile to other players is just childish.

I’m not a seller. I’m blaming Anet because they stated dungeons weren’t important for them ( less gems) and they still find the time to destroy the few things we had. The changes to dungeon owner is like stealing a deadly weapon in a nuclear war. Yeah, you tried to achieve peace, but since we have no reliable threat mesure ( loosing the progress if you kick, in this case) we can’t trust any runs. I’m not hostile against players. I was pointing a logic flaw in the Anet’s statement, that’s all. Indeed, if joining a lfg and killing the boss is legal, why would kicking 3 players and selling their spot wouldn’t? They technically did well within the rules, didn’t exploited or whatever. However, it’s still scamming.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

Even if they’re screwing over other players? If they’re trolling the seller? When are you going to do something about it? Is the only way that you’re going to take action is if someone is “exploiting” the run?

I don’t think path selling is the sort of thing ANet supports (certainly mechanically speaking there’s nothing in the game to imply this is a desired feature), of course it’s not like they’re against it either.
Exploits however, well that’s a different story.

oxtred.7658:

Chris Cleary.8017:

If someone completes the dungeon while you are attempting to selling it, we are not going to take action against that person. If you invite them into your group or list the group via LFG, they are well within their right to finish the dungeon if you decide to leave the boss at 1%.

If they get into my group, am i well within my right to kick them when the boss is at 1%?

No that’s something completely different. Seller beware is not the same as LFG abuse.

oxtred.7658:

I’m not a seller. I’m blaming Anet because they stated dungeons weren’t important for them ( less gems)

Link please.

Simple fix for all that selling-trouble: A fixed group-wide reward which is evenly divided onto those that did the Dungeon. If a group of 5 gets 1.5 gold each, someone soloing it should get 7.5 gold directly from the game, and not from others buying it.

Either this, or, if that´s considerably more simple, just create an extra-tab in LfG-menu for those buying/selling-thing, so it doesn´t appear to those who don´t want to see it.

And to get back to the opener: No, I have no idea how to get to Brie in a few seconds. But maybe if I repeat your original question, it may help this thread to provide an answer So:

In Arah P2, how can a warrior get from entry to Brie within a few seconds without porting?

As long as you have a reason, and someone in your party seconds your kick then yes. Its a kitten move either way, but its acceptable based on current set up.

If you don’t have a reason, and the kickee reports you then there is the possibility of the full wrath of anet coming down on you.

I was never kicked out of a dungeon because i made the group and opened it but what only 2 votes to kick someone out of 5 people sorry to say this but the fair thing is for 3 out 5 to decide that you know a majority you have to fix this Anet this should be the number 1 thing in my opinion that should be fixed.

CureForLiving.5360:

“Dungeons are what they are, and they won’t change anytime soon. Outside of small quality of life improvements, we’re leaving dungeons alone.”

oxtred.7658:

….The changes to dungeon owner is like stealing a deadly weapon in a nuclear war. ….

Really, your gonna go with that analogy?

I think Anet is being quite clear in that they don’t consider dungeon running (as a gold earning activity) to be worth protecting when compared to the actual intended use of the LFG tool and the instanced party system. The damage to a dungeon runners potential income is incidental, but has no relevance in the larger scheme of the how they want to fix the abuse the system allows to occur in it’s current form.

If you want to blame someone, how about the “kickers” that abused the system to the extent that Anet had to change it…..

BTW, everyone but Dungeon runners considers the party change to be QoL change….

Brother Grimm.5176:

oxtred.7658:

….The changes to dungeon owner is like stealing a deadly weapon in a nuclear war. ….

Really, your gonna go with that analogy?

I think Anet is being quite clear in that they don’t consider dungeon running (as a gold earning activity) to be worth protecting when compared to the actual intended use of the LFG tool and the instanced party system. The damage to a dungeon runners potential income is incidental, but has no relevance in the larger scheme of the how they want to fix the abuse the system allows to occur in it’s current form.

If you want to blame someone, how about the “kickers” that abused the system to the extent that Anet had to change it…..

BTW, everyone but Dungeon runners considers the party change to be QoL change….

Who the hell else does it affect? If you don’t run dungeons…. instance ownership is entirely irrelevant to you.

People can’t protect themselves against rude guilds, trolls, etc anymore. I WI definitely be afraid to pug. I can see it now: push my way through my daily fractal 50 and get kicked at the second phase of maw.

Or even worse: I DC for less than a minute and already kicked because they don’t have to worry about my ownership of the instance.