Still gain XP when not having all masteries?
What do you need XP for if you gave up on Masteries?
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
You’re right. There is no point. I guess I was trying to make my actions feel worthwhile where they are not.
No, it was a serious question. You get XP to level up. First from 1 to 80, then for Masteries. If you don’t want Masteries, why do you want the currency to get them?
Let’s say you collect pearls to craft yourself a necklace. You crafted 15 of them, then decide that you don’t want to go through the effort of crafting anymore necklaces. Would you keep collecting pearls?
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
No, it was a serious question. You get XP to level up. First from 1 to 80, then for Masteries. If you don’t want Masteries, why do you want the currency to get them?
Let’s say you collect pearls to craft yourself a necklace. You crafted 15 of them, then decide that you don’t want to go through the effort of crafting anymore necklaces. Would you keep collecting pearls?
Yes because the pearls for selling for ~10g. :P
You’re right. There is no point. I guess I was trying to make my actions feel worthwhile where they are not.
How are your actions not worthwhile? Aside from leveling characters and unlocking masteries, what exactly do any of us want with XP? At best, people get extra spirit shards, but nearly everyone earns those faster than they can spend. (And I’ve even tried to spend them in bulk at one point.)
I’m in favor of ANet adjusting the system, so that raids aren’t a bottleneck. It just doesn’t seem like it’s all that urgent, since such a change would have relatively little impact on anyone’s gaming.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
If ALL mastery tracks are beyond your ability, then you’re right: the XP is and always will be useless. And, one major aspect of most boosters and crafted consumables are also useless (XP boosts). It boggles the mind trying to understand why ANet doesn’t fix this problem. They should just give us a toggle to stop progressing masteries, and let us choose to return to XP=spirit shards at OUR choice, not theirs.
However, you can progress more than one mastery to the top. Once you get to max in the current mastery in a track, switch to another mastery. That way, if you ever do get more mastery points, you have some options to choose from. Small consolation, but it’s something (if you haven’t already thought of it on your own).
ANet’s decision was to make Spirit Shards available as random drops instead.
ANet’s decision was to make Spirit Shards available as random drops instead.
And later, once they realized the terrible mistake they had made, they returned the rewards to “leveling” after level 80.
Now they have made the same mistake again. They don’t really understand the root problem: a game should not penalize its most loyal fans.
ANet’s decision was to make Spirit Shards available as random drops instead.
And later, once they realized the terrible mistake they had made, they returned the rewards to “leveling” after level 80.
Now they have made the same mistake again. They don’t really understand the root problem: a game should not penalize its most loyal fans.
then get your masteries to max, still only 149 myself since Im not done with hot side.
then get your masteries to max, still only 149 myself since Im not done with hot side.
I can’t. I don’t raid.
And, even if they fix that, I’m no longer capable of generating enough mastery points to complete the last three I need (almost all remaining mastery points are beyond my physical and mental capabilities).
So, I just want to go back to Spirit Shards (or, SOMEthing).
Do you have all of the lw s3 maps should be more then enough mastery points there mate.
I was in the same boat about the raids untill I bit the bullet and joined a training run for escort took us 4 tries to get the event and boss done.
.
Now they have made the same mistake again. They don’t really understand the root problem: a game should not penalize its most loyal fans.
And you keep ignoring the root issue: they didn’t set out to penalize anyone. It’s an accident of prioritizing giving us something quickly rather than making everyone wait for a long time.
And regardless, it’s a trivial reward. Before they offered any spirits shards for XP, I was converting stats to unlock all the ascended skins and I still was earning far more shards than I was spending.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
And you keep ignoring the root issue: they didn’t set out to penalize anyone.
It makes no difference whether they intended to penalize anybody. They DID, and that’s what matters.
However, I think it’s abundantly clear that they DID intend to penalize their loyal players, because they haven’t corrected it. They would, like you, couch it in terms that soften the facts, but no matter how you slice it, caps of any kind are a penalty against player loyalty.
And you keep ignoring the root issue: they didn’t set out to penalize anyone.
It makes no difference whether they intended to penalize anybody. They DID, and that’s what matters.
However, I think it’s abundantly clear that they DID intend to penalize their loyal players, because they haven’t corrected it. They would, like you, couch it in terms that soften the facts, but no matter how you slice it, caps of any kind are a penalty against player loyalty.
Of course it matters to you because you keep bringing it up as a reason why it’s urgent.
Look, there’s two possibilities: they really are as mean-spirited or foolish at business as you think, and they intended to hurt veterans — if that’s so, nothing any of us say is going to get them to realize their mistake.
Or, they tried to offer something to some people sooner rather than nothing to everyone and they made a mistake about how well it would be received. In which case, they’re already on it, and just waiting for the right time to revisit the underlying mechanics so they can get it right.
As a practical matter, I don’t really care which it is — I can’t make the game change any quicker. Spirit shards still drop aplenty, so I’ll keep accumulating with or without unlocking the raid mastery.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
So what would happen if they added an option where you can decide to stop gaining XP for Masteries but for another reward, like Spirit Shards.
I believe whatever that reward is, it would become worthless within a day, simply because everybody would get it. Those who maxed Masteries get it, those who don’t have enough Mastery Points to buy the next line would get it, and everybody who decides to not bother with Masteries anymore would get it.
Whatever that item is, we would have a huge surplus within short time. I believe everybody already has more Spirit Shards than he will ever use, so what’s the point of getting more of them? XP comes plentyful, and therefore, any reward would be diminished.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
So what would happen if they added an option where you can decide to stop gaining XP for Masteries but for another reward, like Spirit Shards.
I believe whatever that reward is, it would become worthless within a day, simply because everybody would get it. Those who maxed Masteries get it, those who don’t have enough Mastery Points to buy the next line would get it, and everybody who decides to not bother with Masteries anymore would get it.
Whatever that item is, we would have a huge surplus within short time. I believe everybody already has more Spirit Shards than he will ever use, so what’s the point of getting more of them? XP comes plentyful, and therefore, any reward would be diminished.
And thats why that reward could only be spirit shards mate.
Of course it matters to you because you keep bringing it up as a reason why it’s urgent.
Look, there’s two possibilities: they really are as mean-spirited or foolish at business as you think, and they intended to hurt veterans — if that’s so, nothing any of us say is going to get them to realize their mistake.
Or, they tried to offer something to some people sooner rather than nothing to everyone and they made a mistake about how well it would be received. In which case, they’re already on it, and just waiting for the right time to revisit the underlying mechanics so they can get it right.
As a practical matter, I don’t really care which it is — I can’t make the game change any quicker. Spirit shards still drop aplenty, so I’ll keep accumulating with or without unlocking the raid mastery.
You violated the excluded middle fallacy. There are (at least) three possibilities. The third in this case is the one I espoused: They placed the caps intentionally, for reasons unknown, not realizing that they would be penalizing their most loyal players.
So what would happen if they added an option where you can decide to stop gaining XP for Masteries but for another reward, like Spirit Shards.
I believe whatever that reward is, it would become worthless within a day, simply because everybody would get it. Those who maxed Masteries get it, those who don’t have enough Mastery Points to buy the next line would get it, and everybody who decides to not bother with Masteries anymore would get it.
Whatever that item is, we would have a huge surplus within short time. I believe everybody already has more Spirit Shards than he will ever use, so what’s the point of getting more of them? XP comes plentyful, and therefore, any reward would be diminished.
There are uses for spirit shards. For example, I use a lot of them converting some crafting materials (mats) into next-tier mats.
But, even if there weren’t sinks to use them up, it’s the principle of the thing that’s at issue: why penalize the most loyal players?
Of course it matters to you because you keep bringing it up as a reason why it’s urgent.
Look, there’s two possibilities: they really are as mean-spirited or foolish at business as you think, and they intended to hurt veterans — if that’s so, nothing any of us say is going to get them to realize their mistake.
Or, they tried to offer something to some people sooner rather than nothing to everyone and they made a mistake about how well it would be received. In which case, they’re already on it, and just waiting for the right time to revisit the underlying mechanics so they can get it right.
As a practical matter, I don’t really care which it is — I can’t make the game change any quicker. Spirit shards still drop aplenty, so I’ll keep accumulating with or without unlocking the raid mastery.
You violated the excluded middle fallacy. There are (at least) three possibilities. The third in this case is the one I espoused: They placed the caps intentionally, for reasons unknown, not realizing that they would be penalizing their most loyal players.
By your own description, they didn’t realize this would hurt vets, so it’s not a new possibility; it’s marginally different as the second possibility. In either case, you’re still saying it’s an urgent issue because it hurts vets and I’m still saying that’s moot in determining whether its urgent or not.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
While I don’t feel “hurt” by not getting the shards, I have to say that once I got a raid boss down and was able to max my masteries, the feeling of the xp bar zooming along and the benefits of the level up occasionally doing me a good turn (restoring health in a fight, eg) has brought back an element of fun I didn’t realize I’d lost. It’s fake progress but I hit a new “level” often enough to feel I’m doing something, to get a cadence to my time playing.
So I do hope they find a way to unshackle mastery completion benefits from getting one raid boss down. The game feels livelier when the xp bar is moving through its cycle.
I don’t understand why no one, um…lamented the fact that we all went months with XP giving no reward whatsoever before HoT launched. Why is it so different now, when a measly Spirit Shard is at stake?
(I don’t believe using 1/2 [or less] to 1 Spirit Shard and an entire stack of mats for mat promotion uses any noticeable amount of Spirit Shards, either.)
I think the difference is that in those pre-HoT months, we knew a new system was coming and the lack of level-up “dings” was a temporary transition measure. Thus only the truly impatient would find cause to lament.
Lots of things are rather more tolerable in the short term or in moderation. I recall my college cafeteria food … visitors were amazed at how good it was but after a few months we students were deeply feeling the need to eat out.
By your own description, they didn’t realize this would hurt vets, so it’s not a new possibility; it’s marginally different as the second possibility. In either case, you’re still saying it’s an urgent issue because it hurts vets and I’m still saying that’s moot in determining whether its urgent or not.
I don’t believe I said anything about urgency. The key issue is whether they understand what they’ve done, so they don’t repeat the same mistake. THAT’S why it’s important to talk about it.
I don’t understand why no one, um…lamented the fact that we all went months with XP giving no reward whatsoever before HoT launched.
We did. That’s why they fixed it.
No, there was next to nothing in the forums about it. And, that’s not why they ‘fixed’ it, as it was never broken. It was changed (Skill Points to Hero Points) to accommodate the upcoming Masteries.
Bottom line, I really don’t care about all the arguments that are for the EXP bars being locked behind doing a a part of the game designed for the 1%rs. I d not want any anything to do with raids that were made for the elite minority. All I see is EXP points being awarded and my EXP bar locked and not moving and as a daily player it just urinates me off!!!! Anet, WTG!!!!!! You have succeeded in alienating me and many other players (imho) because you are making the the game for the few instead of all.
Bottom line, I really don’t care about all the arguments that are for the EXP bars being locked behind doing a a part of the game designed for the 1%rs. I d not want any anything to do with raids that were made for the elite minority. All I see is EXP points being awarded and my EXP bar locked and not moving and as a daily player it just urinates me off!!!! Anet, WTG!!!!!! You have succeeded in alienating me and many other players (imho) because you are making the the game for the few instead of all.
Even as a pve player you should be able to do the escort event and boss mate.
Even as a pve player you should be able to do the escort event and boss mate.
No, there are all sorts of reasons why that’s not a realistic option for a huge group of players. (Plus, it’s not as easy for some players — those who have completed raids are going to have trouble seeing why, just as those who haven’t completed any encounters have trouble understanding why raiders keep saying it’s not hard.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Even as a pve player you should be able to do the escort event and boss mate.
No, there are all sorts of reasons why that’s not a realistic option for a huge group of players. (Plus, it’s not as easy for some players — those who have completed raids are going to have trouble seeing why, just as those who haven’t completed any encounters have trouble understanding why raiders keep saying it’s not hard.)
Well, one can change perspective on that. There are guilds that sell raid boss kills. I googled a bit but couldn’t find what the price is these days. Maybe 50 gold, 100? I’m sure one of the raid guilds who do Escort with 8 or 9 people anyway will carry a person for 10 gold each. It’s not much money for them, but it’s basically free. They’ll probably put it into the guild bank.
That is much better than sneaking into a group to get carried, which will make nobody happy. So my perspective then is that unlocking the raid mastery line costs XXg and 15 to 20 minutes of your time. That’s the price, simple. The other mastery lines also have prices, you need to spend time on doing the story to get to the maps. And getting gold to buy a raid kill also takes time, maybe even less than doing the story. You always pay with time, and most people probably already have 100+ gold in form of crafting materials in their storage that they can sell.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
Even as a pve player you should be able to do the escort event and boss mate.
No, there are all sorts of reasons why that’s not a realistic option for a huge group of players. (Plus, it’s not as easy for some players — those who have completed raids are going to have trouble seeing why, just as those who haven’t completed any encounters have trouble understanding why raiders keep saying it’s not hard.)
Well, one can change perspective on that. There are guilds that sell raid boss kills. I googled a bit but couldn’t find what the price is these days. Maybe 50 gold, 100? I’m sure one of the raid guilds who do Escort with 8 or 9 people anyway will carry a person for 10 gold each. It’s not much money for them, but it’s basically free. They’ll probably put it into the guild bank.
That is much better than sneaking into a group to get carried, which will make nobody happy. So my perspective then is that unlocking the raid mastery line costs XXg and 15 to 20 minutes of your time. That’s the price, simple. The other mastery lines also have prices, you need to spend time on doing the story to get to the maps. And getting gold to buy a raid kill also takes time, maybe even less than doing the story. You always pay with time, and most people probably already have 100+ gold in form of crafting materials in their storage that they can sell.
And that statement does more to promote the ops’ stance and those that are against having xp locked behind raids better than anything I could have said. Pay us somebody money and you can unlock. That is a path anet should have put an end to immediately. Time is one thing but money and being kicked because one is not elite enough is something else altogther.
those that are against having xp locked behind raids
Who exactly is in favor of having XP gain locked behind raids? Not everyone agrees that it’s a problem and even many that do agree feel it’s not urgent or perhaps not even important enough for ANet to divert resources to address.
That said, I otherwise agree that encouraging people to spend 50-100g for a raid run is counter to the idea that “anyone can do escort”.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Time is one thing but money and being kicked because one is not elite enough is something else altogther.
I tried to explain that time is more valuable than money. When you talk about gold, it really is time spent to get it, like in real life. For me, it would cost less to just pay people to do an escort for me than trying to get that Mastery Point from Hidden Garden or that Jumping Puzzle in Rata Novus, because those take more time.
Unlocking the raid mastery line is cheaper than getting a mastery point if you got all the easy ones already. I spent 2 hours doing that Rata Novus JP. If I spend 1 hour doing T4 fractal dailies on two days, I get enough gold to buy a escort to unlock the mastery track.
When someone says it’s a pain to farm Freshwater Pearls for months to get Minstrel’s armor, we would tell him to not waste his time and just buy them on the TP. Buying the service that raid guilds provide is no different. You can do things that are fun and you are good at, like fractals, and also get the mastery track unlocked. You probably get the gold faster than learning how to raid and finding a group, and do something you despise and are not good at.
The raid mastery track is not locked behind skill if you can just buy it with time spent. And I’m not talking about the hassle to join pugs and maybe get kicked. I’m talking about a deal, you pay a team to let you join the raid while they do the work (that is fun and easy for them), while you trail behind (beware those wargs) and watch, and then get the mastery track unlocked. It’s like hiring Sherpa when you want to climb Mount Everest, nothing wrong with it. I don’t like carrying things, so I pay people when I move into another house. I spend time to get the money they want in exchange of their time. I’m good at my job, they are good at theirs, and everybody is happy. I don’t whine that I have to carry all the stuff, or try to get random people from the street to help me, or complain that I cannot move because “moving is locked behind carrying skill and I don’t like carrying” lol
Well, that is my pragmatic perspective.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
those that are against having xp locked behind raids
Who exactly is in favor of having XP gain locked behind raids? Not everyone agrees that it’s a problem and even many that do agree feel it’s not urgent or perhaps not even important enough for ANet to divert resources to address.
That said, I otherwise agree that encouraging people to spend 50-100g for a raid run is counter to the idea that “anyone can do escort”.
There is no resources to divert, gaming 101 student could change it during an unpaid internship.
The 1%‘r elite would agree it isn’t an issue and most would agree it isn’t urgent but . But it is a nothing more than a restriction.