Guild Wars 2

I know I am not the only one when I say I am tired of getting one shot by X amount of thieves. It is getting to be absolutely ridiculous. In the beginning there was only 1-2 thieves on each team. Now there is 3-4 thieves on each team. This needs to be fixed sooner then later. Clearly there is something wrong when half of the team is composed of thieves. Please fix this. Until then I will be playing a thief, because the way I see it I will either quit until they’re nerfed or join in in the ridiculous one shot fest. I assume this will be fixed if you want this game to become MLG because at its current state MLG would laugh at this.

I don’t think they need to be nerfed too badly, maybe Heartseeker but that’s it in my opinion. I don’t have trouble taking down thieves…

BUT too many thieves DOES get OP… That much damage output is too much, especially if they are running bleed builds…

Yeah 1v1 is not so bad but when half the team is them it just gets stupid.

I wouldn’t bet on them getting fixed any time soon.

In guild wars one, and update was released to increase the viability of elementalists. One skill, shockwave, was ridiculously OP and accepted as OP by every1 in the game and it hasnt been fixed or nerfed in the slightest, to this date.

Agreed, needs a fix. They are the only profession that kills me before I can react..

Extremely biased posts with no evidence to back it up..

I can play too.

I know many people agree with me but mesmers are 1 shotting me doing 40k damage before I can even bring down 1 illusion.
Nerf them please

It wont be too long now before the floodgates are open and these forums are bombarded by bunch of annoying nerf whining crybabies.

“Extremely biased posts with no evidence to back it up..”

What sort of evidence would you like? I play pvp a lot and just got mercenary today. I can fraps thieves doing 12k dmg in 2hits or scoreboards with 8 thieves in one match. Please tell me and i’ll get the evidence.

lol MLG. So important as to what they think.

Also: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Are-Thieves-annoying-you-in-PvP/first#post40616

Dont get why people keep harping on theives…

For the pistolewhip attack I simply dodge out of the way after the stun. If they have quickness or immoblize then I use a stun breaker like rocket boots. I can usually survive a pistol whip attack though and heal up after it.

For heartseaker…..just dodge. They may get 1 or 2 hits in….but if I know they are going to spam it I just dodge as it comes in and usually dont have to worry after that since they dumped all their initiative.

I don’t think they are too strong, but for some reason there’s waaaaaay too many thieves running around in Spvp. Annoying at best.

To sad that they are already kind of useless in PvE (dungeons)… what does zero dmg because it’s dead instantly? Right, the thief.

When I am on my guardian, can you nerf warriors, thieves, eles, necros, rangers, engineers and mesmers because they are all OP.

When I am on my ranger can you nerf warriors, thieves, guardians, eles, necros, engineers and mesmers because they are all OP.

When I am on my engineer can you nerf warriors, thieves, guardians, eles, necros, engineers and mesmers because they are all OP.

When I am on my warrior can you nerf guardians, thieves, eles, necros, engineers and mesmers because they are all OP.

In addition can you nerf all the dungeons, I can’t seem to face roll them and they skill, wtf is that about!!!!!!!

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Wolfheart.1938:

I don’t think they are too strong, but for some reason there’s waaaaaay too many thieves running around in Spvp. Annoying at best.

I’ve played quite a few MMO’s. When it comes to PvP, anything rogue-like is usually a number one choice. Rogue like characters fit the pvp, hunt down your enemy style of play. You go in and get the job done quickly.

It’s just a pattern I’ve noticed.

Also, On topic, I’m sure the same QQ would be shed if there were more mesmers, necros, or whatever other class in pvp. They seem OP because a lot of pvpers enjoy the class. However, in 1v1 situations, thieves can be countered easily.

Instead of nerfing a class because of POPULARITY, a more logical thing to suggest would be a class limit in SPvp. Say like 2, of each class per team.

Darkrachet.8732:

“Extremely biased posts with no evidence to back it up..”

What sort of evidence would you like? I play pvp a lot and just got mercenary today. I can fraps thieves doing 12k dmg in 2hits or scoreboards with 8 thieves in one match. Please tell me and i’ll get the evidence.

So the problem is the matchmaking, not the thieves. I’m lucky if I get into a game that even has 8 players total in it right now. A whole team of anything is going to be op. The biggest problems people have right now is that they don’t know how to play their class.

I tried a glass cannon build which gave me crits of up to 12.000 dmg and after that it was child’s play. But that was if I hit that first strike. If I didn’t I was pretty much dead.

It’s all about skill, awareness and knowledge. You need to learn the different classes and how to counter them. If you see a thief and then it disappears you should expect a backstab with critical hit to take almost 50% of your health or more. Therefore you should move a lot (which applies to all fights in this game) and use whatever aoe you have. If the thief surprised you then you weren’t aware of the situation and need to look around more.

Remember: a thief that can one-hit you have probably specced all into dmg and nothing to defend himself. Which means you could probably one-hit him too. I hated elementalists as a glass cannon because of their aoe effects always breaking my stealth and my 100% crit chance….

this is a common misconception of skilled player vs bad player u have so many players as a thief because well most of them don’t know how to use the thief and they say more is better___ wrong. i’ve 1v1ed on my thief beat a guardian without loosing more then half my health u say a thief can be beaten 1v1 easily. the same can be said about all the classes. this game is more skill then mashing the bloody button and hope to god the other player is to stupid to do anything. i’m sick and tired of oh this class is OP 1 weak later oh this class is so week and blahh blahh blahh. this happened to the assassin in gw1 and i had no issues with mine what so ever tell they started screwing with it and ppl started QQ… and for u guys that say thieves suck in dngs i got news for ya the ones that play um obviously have no bloody idea how to play them then

Lewk.8359:

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Again, incorrect. You also must mean quickness not haste, which is long cooldown so that makes it very situational and low uptime.

Where is this burst you are speaking of? Backstab requires stealth, even a high stealth build is gonna sacrifice some power or crit, you arent in stealth all that much, AND the ONLY stealth ability that removes any conditions is the heal. Well last I checked most classes can cause burning or bleeding if not ALL. So that negates most of their stealth. Secondly if they are stealth build they probably have 100% crit chance in stealth which takes the place of the 20% increased damage if target is below 50%. talent…

Maybe you mean Pistol Whip, the long activation time ability (unless you have quickness up), easily dodged and short stun.

Or do you mean heartseeker? That does 1-2k on non-tank targets when it doesn’t crit. Even glass cannon full crit builds dont have near 100% crit.

Screenshots?
Videos?
Tried playing thief yourself to see how they did it?

…

I don’t understand. In 1 on 1 situation, mesmers or engineers are far more powerful than thieves. If you are just talking about DPS, I am pretty sure warriors can do better job than thieves.

Nanunu.1403:

I don’t understand. In 1 on 1 situation, mesmers or engineers are far more powerful than thieves. If you are just talking about DPS, I am pretty sure warriors can do better job than thieves.

Exactly.
There are many factors people don’t take into consideration.
They said thieves were going to be the most mobile class, I can name quite a few that are more mobile. This is why the limited stealth factor doesn’t make sense, you either have to build a rogue class with perma stealth or warriors or(insert class here) will do their job better.

Also, more time alive, being able to harass or attack, actually means more DPS and helping your group win then short lived high burst of damage.
If a thief builds for a little escape and survivability (best way atm is stealth build), they sacrifice some damage. Well with that damage sacrificed most ranged classes will still have more mobility and survivability, also to note they are ranged so their damage/condition dealing is outside the fray. Which also means they can easier see if the enemies friends are coming to join in on the action, which is why they have an easier time assessing the situation and knowing when to get out.

Being a melee class in melee means you are vulnerable to not only the damage and conditions of Ranged classes but Melee as well at ALL times. When you attack as a ranged class, you are only vulnerable to Melee classes when they can get to you.

This is why it is the natural order of balance to make melee classes have higher toughness and vitality (or insert survivability stat here) then ranged classes. When this natural order is skewed and destroyed (like this game and some before it), it creates a plethora of balance issues because when said ranged class has more survivability then any one of the melee classes, how do you balance their damage to match? how do you balance their healing to match?

Knyx.5926:

Lewk.8359:

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Again, incorrect. You also must mean quickness not haste, which is long cooldown so that makes it very situational and low uptime.

Where is this burst you are speaking of? Backstab requires stealth, even a high stealth build is gonna sacrifice some power or crit, you arent in stealth all that much, AND the ONLY stealth ability that removes any conditions is the heal. Well last I checked most classes can cause burning or bleeding if not ALL. So that negates most of their stealth. Secondly if they are stealth build they probably have 100% crit chance in stealth which takes the place of the 20% increased damage if target is below 50%. talent…

Maybe you mean Pistol Whip, the long activation time ability (unless you have quickness up), easily dodged and short stun.

Or do you mean heartseeker? That does 1-2k on non-tank targets when it doesn’t crit. Even glass cannon full crit builds dont have near 100% crit.

Screenshots?
Videos?
Tried playing thief yourself to see how they did it?

…

Hope you are not a thief, since you dont even know the names of your skills or how stealth works.

First: the skill that buffs quickness is named Haste, so why picking on him about it?

Secondly: Stealth does not break on damage taken, so burning or bleeding does not “negate” most of their stealth.

“Stealth is broken when the user attacks, however characters remain hidden while taking damage or stealing” – From the Wiki.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Knyx.5926:

Lewk.8359:

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Again, incorrect. You also must mean quickness not haste, which is long cooldown so that makes it very situational and low uptime.

Where is this burst you are speaking of? Backstab requires stealth, even a high stealth build is gonna sacrifice some power or crit, you arent in stealth all that much, AND the ONLY stealth ability that removes any conditions is the heal. Well last I checked most classes can cause burning or bleeding if not ALL. So that negates most of their stealth. Secondly if they are stealth build they probably have 100% crit chance in stealth which takes the place of the 20% increased damage if target is below 50%. talent…

Maybe you mean Pistol Whip, the long activation time ability (unless you have quickness up), easily dodged and short stun.

Or do you mean heartseeker? That does 1-2k on non-tank targets when it doesn’t crit. Even glass cannon full crit builds dont have near 100% crit.

Screenshots?
Videos?
Tried playing thief yourself to see how they did it?

…

Hope you are not a thief, since you dont even know the names of your skills or how stealth works.

First: the skill that buffs quickness is named Haste, so why picking on him about it?

Secondly: Stealth does not break on damage taken, so burning or bleeding does not “negate” most of their stealth.

“Stealth is broken when the user attacks, however characters remain hidden while taking damage or stealing” – From the Wiki.

I do play thief, leveled one to 80 and Spvp and wvwvw from there on.

1. Haste is an effect and a skill name (different from each other), there are multiple ways to gain quickness, so him using the skill name is strange to me

2. That is not entirely how stealth works. I have been in a fight tons and tons of times, popped an ability that stealthed me (other then vanish) and if I had a burn or bleed on me it popped me right out.

A lot of folks are rolling thieves because there are a lot of detailed guides out there for that class. They are able to have combos, traits, and skillsets explained to them in detail without them having to do the work. The problem with these cookie cutter builds is that when they experience a new situation because another class or competitor has adapted to their “one shot” move.

This game hasn’t even been out long enough to really get a feel for what class needs to be nerfed/fixed. This game is a bit more skill based and requires you to think and adapt. Hard work will yield good results. I am not accusing the original poster of being lazy with his fighting or tactical thinking, I am just saying that there is always room for improvement. No one masters a game in 2 weeks

Thieves excel in sPvP, and elementalists suck in sPvP. However in WvW thieves are essentially useless, and elementalists are vital.

How ironic.

Fugly.5287:

Thieves excel in sPvP, and elementalists suck in sPvP. However in WvW thieves are essentially useless, and elementalists are vital.

How ironic.

Mesmers and a few other classes far excel thieves in spvp. wvwvw is a ranged zerg fest. When the zergs meet there is a little “no mans land” that shifts, so that is perfect for eles

Also eles are not that bad in spvp, I actually do 2x better on ele in spvp then I ever did on necro

Issue I have with Thieves is their ability to dodge 4 times in a row, then activate their sword-spin that makes
them dodge everything as well. 5 seconds immunity, I can buy that. 10 seconds, a little bull, but skill would
allow it to happen. 20 seconds of no damage is a game killer.

I know thieves are week when you FINALLY get to hit them, but that 20 sec thing has to go. Glass cannons
shouldn’t be able to be damage immune as well.

Knyx.5926:

1. Haste is an effect and a skill name (different from each other), there are multiple ways to gain quickness, so him using the skill name is strange to me

2. That is not entirely how stealth works. I have been in a fight tons and tons of times, popped an ability that stealthed me (other then vanish) and if I had a burn or bleed on me it popped me right out.

I can vouch for #2. I’ve been popped out of stealth mysteriously even though I never attacked anyone. Idk if its intended or not, but dot conditions seem to break my stealth. Every. Single. Time.

@OP: The only reason people say thieves are OP is because they refuse to use any sort of defense. Everyone and their mama specs glass cannon, but when you do that, the best burst dmg class will win every time. Thief is obviously the best burst dmg class, as their class was built around burst dmg; therefore, Thief > all until ppl get it into their thick skulls that other builds besides lolburst are very good.

I mean I see even warriors going burst dmg. Seriously? Warriors are not a burst dmg class if you ask me. They can deal high sustained dmg but by no means can they burst like a Thief. Thief has no cooldowns..it will beat you in a burst race every dang time. Its common sense, but everyone just wants to lolfacerolldmg.

Take your Break Stun + Condition Removal skills, find Thief, make him cry.

All you need is a bit of reflexes, and you can render most Thief builds moot. It is incredibly satisfying to see them waste their burst on you then turn tail or stand there while you unload on them without even realizing they did nothing to you.

Hellshiver.2418:

Issue I have with Thieves is their ability to dodge 4 times in a row, then activate their sword-spin that makes
them dodge everything as well. 5 seconds immunity, I can buy that. 10 seconds, a little bull, but skill would
allow it to happen. 20 seconds of no damage is a game killer.

I know thieves are week when you FINALLY get to hit them, but that 20 sec thing has to go. Glass cannons
shouldn’t be able to be damage immune as well.

Immobilize/any other CC and that dodge-thief is dead. I say that from personal experience as a lvl 80 dodge-thief. And also, if they have that much mobility, they are sacrificing quite a bit in other areas for it. (Bring 2 CC skills to really mess up their day)

I don’t see the problem with my thief; I have mobility and swiftness which are key elements in the combat of Guild Wars 2, but that doesn’t mean she is unstoppable. Use the correct skills and knowledge against a thief and you can overcome them… Or have them run away, either case is what you want.

Also Major League Gaming has nothing to do with Guild Wars 2 or the balance in most video games – that’s a whole different discussion and there’s a reasoning behind each game they pick to develop their own league.

Lucky.3870:

I don’t see the problem with my thief; I have mobility and swiftness which are key elements in the combat of Guild Wars 2, but that doesn’t mean she is unstoppable. Use the correct skills and knowledge against a thief and you can overcome them… Or have them run away, either case is what you want.

Also Major League Gaming has nothing to do with Guild Wars 2 or the balance in most video games – that’s a whole different discussion and there’s a reasoning behind each game they pick to develop their own league.

MLG…. sounds like the NFL, NCAA and MLB. Yea, if you pit today’s athletes against yesterdays; today’s would win. Gogo Steroids.

As I said before, there maybe an issue with gearing/specing with my play style. I know most people run from me, but Thieves always come to me. Seems an issue when every class avoids me other then one. Then again, rock always runs from paper.

I can stand if Thief is the counter to Warrior; Everything has a weakness. Nothing I’ve seen thus far has stated thus though.

Edited to one post; sillly double clicking on Emachines comps. >.<

Hellshiver.2418:

MLG…. sounds like the NFL, NCAA and MLB. Yea, if you pit today’s athletes against yesterdays; today’s would win. Gogo Steroids.

As I said before, there maybe an issue with gearing/specing with my play style. I know most people run from me, but Thieves always come to me. Seems an issue when every class avoids me other then one. Then again, rock always runs from paper.

I can stand if Thief is the counter to Warrior; Everything has a weakness. Nothing I’ve seen thus far has stated thus though.

Edited to one post;kittendouble clicking on Emachines comps. >.<

MLG is simply a group of people that enjoy competitive play through potential video games that allow them to satisfy and compete between each other. They also hold their own leagues and have their own number of skilled players for different games and most of their income comes from sponsors and partnerships. (No, I’m not talking about those types that go around trying to imitate truly skilled progamers in games that are far from acceptable for actual competitive play)

I personally as a Thief have a hard time to tackle foes head-on. I prefer to go around with my team or partner and support their attack instead.

Hellshiver.2418:

Issue I have with Thieves is their ability to dodge 4 times in a row, then activate their sword-spin that makes
them dodge everything as well. 5 seconds immunity, I can buy that. 10 seconds, a little bull, but skill would
allow it to happen. 20 seconds of no damage is a game killer.

I know thieves are week when you FINALLY get to hit them, but that 20 sec thing has to go. Glass cannons
shouldn’t be able to be damage immune as well.

Hey, that sounds like you’re talking about my build!
I call it the MC Hammer build (as in “You can’t touch this”, a reference to a popular 80s song). I’m glad to hear you find it annoying, because I haven’t actually gone PvP with it yet, (still just levelling him), and it’s good to know it might have some potential, even though it is completely different than all the popular builds I’ve seen discussed online. But it isn’t quite as powerful as your perception of it is. Let me help clear up some misconceptions you’ve gotten and that might help you to deal with it better.

First off, I imagine that sword-spin you’re referring to has to be the elite skill Dagger Storm, because the thief doesn’t do anything else that you could mistake for a sword spin. Dagger Storm is a great spell, but not as great as you seem to think. First off it lasts for 8 seconds, not 20. Secondly it doesn’t actually give you invulnerability. It does block projectiles though. So if you see a thief spinning around, go after him with melee weapons! A leap skill might be perfect to use at this point. If the thief dodges his spin will end early, (and I believe it also ends early if he shadow-steps but I haven’t actually tested that), which for you might be just about as good as actually hitting him. The thief does have 2 counters to this if he wants to maintain his spin longer. First, his hits inflict crippled condition 2 seconds on you, which helps keep you from catching him. Secondly, if he starts the spin in a Dark field (which he can create himself with the weapon skill Black Powder if he has a gun off-hand) his attacks also inflict blindness. If you see a thief setup a combo field you probably want to get ready to hit him with an interrupt, as even if he isn’t carrying or planning to follow-up with Dagger Storm, he’s likely got some kind of combo finisher in mind.

As far as the 4 times in a row dodging goes, well that requires some specific setup to accomplish. A thief who puts 15 points in the Acrobatics traits line, (which none of the popular builds seem to use) gets the freebie “Dodging refunds some of it’s cost”, which effectively helps endurance come back a little bit faster. Basically after just doing two ordinary dodges my endurance is a little less than half-way up the first section. To get more dodges, I use Withdraw as my healing skill, which has a 15 second cool down. Finally I use the utility skill “Roll for Initiative” which has a 60 second cool down and gives me 6 iniative. Obviously I want to use these skills as more than just dodges though so I’m going to try to time them wisely and not just spam them whenever. Note that these dodges both go backwards and in the latter’s case rolls further than a regular dodge. Knowing this should help you understand what the thief is doing and thereby anticipate what he might be planning to do next.

In addition to dodging there’s also things I do to increase my speed. The Acrobatics line at 5 points gives a free 2 seconds of swiftness for evading. Also, the Acrobatics Master Trait “Martial Agility” grants a 10% increase in movement speed while carrying a sword, (although I haven’t unlocked that one yet). In addition I keep Signet of Shadows in my skill bar which passively grants me a 25% increase in movement speed, (but not attack or skill speed).

The way I play this build is I try to maintain a hit hard/dodge or shadow step/hit hard/dodge or shadow step/hit hard/dodge for intiative/hit hard/… pattern going through the fight. My second trait line is trickery, and Ive selected the “Uncatchable” Adept trait from it which leaves Caltrops behind while I dodge, and my Adept trait from Acrobatics is “Power of Inertia” which give me might whenever I dodge. The result is that each dodge gives me swiftness and might while bleeding my opponent, not bad for a build that dodges a lot, (Note that this only applies to regular dodges and not dodges caused by skills). Although this build’s hits aren’t going to be as hard as a Venom Thief, by using roll for initiave and other Trickery line stuff to get my initiative back up quickly I can do my hard hits more often and am not totally doomed even when I do get hit, (because Acrobatics raises Vitality), which isn’t so often with all my dodges.

All that said, someone will probably reply to this and tell me why this is a laughably bad build, considering I haven’t even played PvP yet.

Im Too Godlike.5629:

I wouldn’t bet on them getting fixed any time soon.

In guild wars one, and update was released to increase the viability of elementalists. One skill, shockwave, was ridiculously OP and accepted as OP by every1 in the game and it hasnt been fixed or nerfed in the slightest, to this date.

Considering they want guild wars 2 to be balanced in terms of PVP, maybe become an esport, or if not an esport then at least a basic tournament level of play, well then it’s not really acceptable at all.

There’s a few things in the game that are currently imba that need fixing.

I think thief isn’t actually OP. It just feeds off low survivability glass cannons, ie. everything in HJPvP.

I’d say its broken because of how one trick pony it is. If you can survive their burst and deal damage back the thief literally has no options, they are entirely kill or be killed which removes a lot of the area for individual skill and is essentially a flat line level of effectiveness irrelevant of skill (not strictly true but largely).