Guild Wars 2

You said it yourself Laufey, you’re not level 80. This really isn’t a problem until you get to Orr.

I’ve created a few trains in my gameplay but usually it’s when I’m trying to get in and out to earn a POI quickly and I don’t want to fight a whole pile of mobs. If I notice another player on my way out of the POI area getting smacked around, I stop and help them fight .. but honestly most of my trains occur because of that one POI.

Mungrul.9358:

You said it yourself Laufey, you’re not level 80. This really isn’t a problem until you get to Orr.

Ah, I see. I thought that might be the reason. Then I take back what I said.

Yes ‘training’ is one of my pet peeves as well, but I figured it’s just something we have to put up with when playing with other people on the same map.

I stopped to answer someone’s question in map chat yesterday and while I wasn’t paying attention a little NPC Asura carrying a box of stuff (not in a city) humming down the road ran straight to me with a mob on him, dodged (I’m totally not kidding) the attack on the mob, and proceeded to high tail it away. Leaving me in the middle of a sentence and needing to stop typing to kill it off of me. Meanwhile, Asura keeps walking down the road humming the whole time. What a fella’.

“Leashing” in this game makes trains a pathetic mimic of real trains in prior games.

Run away.

I’ll have to remember this as i go thrugh the world but for now im off so as a wise Dwarf once tolt me as we took a trip through sorrows furnace KIIIIILLROOOOOY STOOOOONEKIIIIIN!!!!

I do have a habit of helping somebody with a mob if I see one, I guess I like playing the hero just charging in and unleashing a fire storm and flattening everything.

AoE skills rock.

Having a flashback to Crushbone….

Well, kitten happens. I admit I did it sometimes, but it was always the “OMG have less than 100 health and DS empty” mode. I always turn around after I had at least 50% health and help clean the mob. But lately I learned, if I run away for my life and spam Necro staff skills on the ground train stops following me.
I also encountered that someone else pulled train on me. Usually running out of the cave when I was entering it, but that is not a big problem, when entering cave you expect to fight anyway. Sometimes they turn and help, sometimes not. If I see somebody running with train following and if I don’t have anything to do sometimes I even join the train .
I don’t recall anyone pulled train on me just for trolling. Or I didn’t recognise trolling. It was mostly running for life or running because “I have to get to the toilet or accident will happen to my shiny bright new super armour pants!” At least I think of that when I see people running around with train tail.
But, what is the difference between have train jumping on you or sudden respawn of wolf pack on top of your head? It’s dangerous world all around you.
But please, I never managed to pull more than 4-5 of them. Anyone claiming that he encountered/ pulled like train from India with countless of mobs is a liar. They loose aggro long before that can happen.

Also, being a bit of a tanky kind of warrior, I frequently see people training mobs onto me on purpose.
Initially, when my build wasn’t quite as durable as it is now, I’d get intensely annoyed, but now I welcome the potential loot drops

It’s funny how the OP spawned the association of ‘to train something on someone’ with the (choo-choo) train and everyone jumps aboard.^^

To train is just a synonym of to aim (e.g. the execution squad trained their rifles at the victim’s head). In mmo terminology you don’t create a train of mobs, but train a (or several) mob(s) at a player.

On topic: I don’t see an issue here, unless you’re afking in the open field – and there’s an easy fix for that (e.g. don’t afk in the open field).

edit: Also, the Dawn of the Dead remake did not invent the fast zombie. 28 Days Later did. And because Rocket loves thatkittenmovie so much (“…an alpha predator doesn’t walk to its prey.”), we can’t have the slow’n’shambling type, we crave so much

Don’t care. Fight or die.

I want my POIs / vistas. I am not obligated to stop and kill the mobs that want a nibble on my arm, nor am I obligated to spend an extra hour or so on a map clear doing so.

Tom Gore.4035:

The problem isn’t the training mechanism.

It’s Orr with it’s “one mob for each square meter” density, coupled with their “I think I just saw something move across that planet” aggro distance.

lol made me smile, nice summation i cannot disagree.

I was sure this was a bigger issue than just myself and I thank you all for your support, viewpoints, contributions, and bumps, let’s keep getting the message out.

As I said I’ve seen it before in pretty much every other MMO but not even close to the scale I’ve seen it here though. Discussion and the “devil’s advocate” are always valuable as long as people are open to compare and contrast their talking points and give those that apply make sense due consideration. It doesn’t help anyone to just be intentionally obstinate or nit-picky of every little point and be intentionally obtuse when you can clearly assume that people are speaking with in the realm common sense.

Clearly no one is taking issue with having one or two mobs accidentally lead to them. Unless we’re grinding right at the edge of our character’s capability this is not going to be a problem. That’s blatantly obvious and no reason to address the odd extra mob or two.

Also I fully understand that some people mis-pull and end up with a little more than they can handle and go trucking for assistance. I personally have no issue with this either. In fact if I just happen by some guy who’s gotten himself in a bit deep I’m happy to break course and go lend a hand. This might bother some, not me personally and I’d like to believe not most.

Really, if I need to attach a specific theoretic example it would be something like:
Let’s say I’ve fought my way through a rather densely packed area with a knot of mobs throughout to a specific POI or SP or whatever. The mobs are rather densely packed and generally prohibit kiting so I indeed had to fight my way to it in the slow hack and slash style. Now I’m finally reaching the goal point, typically there’s a veteran and it’s crew or something (particularly at Skill Points) and I’m in mid fight there with, really about stretched to my characters capability, especially without kiting as an option. Low and behold up skips Mr. “I’m playing a video game for leisure but still have no time for anything but the highlights”, of course dragging with him enough of the mobs I just cut a swath through to hose up this climatic point and send me to a WP to start all over. My personal favorite is when I end up grabbing all his aggro just by use of my run of the mill attacks and he proceeds to smash the Vet – minus several thousand HPs already, win the SP, and I’m left a twitching pile of mangled dog watching him skip away like a 6 year girl playing hopscotch. And yes, this is essentially entirely of what I speak here.

Mild annoyances are well, annoying and you know, mild. Not worth a post it kinda goes without saying. I know what they say about assuming but really, I think we’re safe here in assuming no one is really affected enough to post here about the odd extra mob. I sort of take it as an insult for anyone to actually realistically assume any of us would take issue with that. It further bothers me that anyone would believe strongly enough that this is the case here spoken of enough to post and insinuate that fact. Let’s be realistic and um… “common sensey?” (Yeah, it’s a word, at least it is now :P!)

Also, like anyone else, I also feel plenty of instances where I need / want to get to the other side of the map and don’t want to engage every mob between myself and there and negotiate the map in all it’s intricacy. If I can’t use a WP I’ll make a dash for it but, just as easily as I can negotiate around any pitfall or sticky point in the geography that would force me to face my pursuers, I can also avoid dropping em in someone else’s lap. As I’ve said though, ignorance is forgivable and accidents are always possible, if I do end up raining on someone else’s parade I’ll stop and help in the fight or if it is clearly just hopeless I will rez them and apologize. Kitten happens but not cleaning it up makes you the kitten happening again after the fact.

So far as this being a PvP themed intentional mechanic, that would be an acceptable and sensible reason for this mechanic to be. Kitten! The “out-of-the-box” PvP strategist that pulled this on me would get a nod of respect from me for sure! If that is the case though I feel that the rule-set as a whole does not agree with that as a feature to actually warrant it.

I can accept that this is a “PvP-centric” game and certain aspects pointing to that are above contest. If this were a “PvP-centric” game that didn’t exclusively confine it’s PvP to a collection of specific instances I could see how this mob mechanic could be defended on that ground easily. Open up some traditional PvP rule set servers and this mechanic makes perfect and ingenious sense to me really. In perhaps a somewhat selfish sense among other reasons, I would be fine with it because, as is the case in any other traditional rule set PvP environment if someone pulled this kitten on me I would simply dust my self off, find them, and proceed to dry hump their face up and down the zone map, until I felt vindicated that is. In this game, operating with it’s set of parameters this seems like a mechanic with a massive potential for griefing and a relatively miniscule potential for use as a PvP tactic to me though. Really, I thought “griefing” was the sole impetus for this “we’re all friends – sunshine, rainbows, and puppy dogs all around” type of PvE environment with any hint of PvP thoroughly segregated and sterilized from the PvE “world” at large.

Now, I get it, I may be a bit “old school” in my idea of PvP and I can see how having a roving band of rogue’s pull your guts out through your kitten hole while you were innocently picking flowers or collecting shiny rocks can be considered “not fun”. All in all, I’m not seeing much of a difference between having a group of players pull you apart while you sight see or having a group of mobs dumped on you to do exactly the same though. No big difference that is, except one, and that one being I can, if I’m willing to put in the effort for revenge the situation calls for, go beat the holy kitten out of the players that did this. In the instance of mob “training” (or whatever, we can call it “the extraneous inadvertent recruitment of artificially controlled target non specific opposition” if that’s what makes everyone’s pants tight) there is nothing I can do but get back up at a rez-point (way-point, whatever) and go right back about my business, hoping it doesn’t happen again. For that reason I still contend the best options to alleviate this kitten-holish behavior are either to institute a more traditional PvP rule-sets and environment (maybe a server choice as is the common offering of other games) or simply to change the mob mechanic.

Well, it seems like someone likes to hear/see themselves talk/type. Next time just stick with the TL;DR part, as that is the size of a normal post in itself and all you needed to say. :P

Anyway, I agree to this to an extent. No one should purposefully be trying to grief other players using this. That’s a big no no.

On the other hand, If I don’t feel like wasting silver to go to a way point nearby, I AM going to run to it. It’s not like I’m trying to gather mobs on my way, but it’s bound to happen that at least a few will get aggro’d. To be frank with you, I’m not going to stop and fight each one that gets aggro’d.

I’m also the person who will stop and help if they see someone downed/ obviously losing a fight against a mob/mobs so I’m not a selfish guy. However, I’m not going to make sure every mob I aggro isn’t going to be a threat to someone else.

I guess it’s a line in the sand that should be drawn, and people should be aware of it. So in other words, don’t do it purposefully, and if you happen to see like 8+ mobs trailing you, THEN try to lose them without any players near by.

1-2? If another player can’t handle that, go back to a lower zone and gear up. :P

In a general sense I guess I just take it for granted that if you are the type of person who really enjoys MMORPGs and aren’t just playing another game because it’s a good game or “top title” with a lot of publicity and solid reviews (which is just as completely valid a reason as much as loving the genre in my humble opinion), it’s because you just plain enjoy the genre.

If that’s the case, by course you enjoy interacting and gaming with the ’M’s’. Unless of course you’re ’P’ing a specific ‘R’ contrary to it I suppose. Ultimately though we are all in the same ‘G’ and not being a big sloppy stinking kitten is just good practice as in any social setting (so much as this can be considered one). After all why would you be ‘O’ to play games to begin with?

I suppose it can always be argued that no matter how “social” we want to consider MMO’s or the internet, generally it just isn’t. Maybe you are in fact the kind of person who just steps up to some 1%‘er and kicks him slam in the kittens because he’s taking too long ordering in front of you at Mickey D’s. Or is it just the “anonymity” of this particular “social setting” where you can get away with being a kitten-hole that allows you to.

If the latter is the case (and I highly suspect it is), opening up the “whole GW2 world” to PvP rules may provide the pseudo consequences of kicking said 1%er in said kittens for the sake of “saving time”. That or change the mechanic, which I feel is likely to be the community’s desired “fix”, in the name of quashing “griefing” in all it’s many forms. If people are gonna use this mechanic to grief though let’s let all the dogs back off the leash and let me go “grief” them back in the form of corpse camping and kitten hatting them! Kitten! Let’s go back to the days of going to some other factions low-level quest hubs and beating the holy kitten out of the quest givers and other NPC’s. At the very least in opens the door back up for some good large scale battles as people call in their friends, guildies, allies, etc. to deal with the attackers. (See I always felt there was a reason for open world PvP aside from just being a griefing kitten, it opened the door for some massive PvP battles, a lot of which are my most treasured MMO highlights in memory.)

I don’t want to side track the initial point of the thread though. PvP concerns and viewpoints aside. This mob “aggregation and unintentional dispersion” is a big P.I.T.A. The biggest part of which, in my opinion, is that there is not a single thing that the victim can do about it. In lieu of outright eliminating the potential for it to occur, if we at least had some kind of recourse it would change the nature of the offense drastically, again – in my opinion at least.

Maverick.6485:

Well, it seems like someone likes to hear/see themselves talk/type. Next time just stick with the TL;DR part, as that is the size of a normal post in itself and all you needed to say. :P

And it seems someone likes to read as well. Point taken though. I only go way out of my way voicing this to avoid needing 1001 replies to answer every off the wall, “yeah, but what if…” post. Personally I blame the need for reports required on EVERY aspect of my job. If I cut a fart there’s 7 pages of forms to file. kittenTPS reports…

Let me give this TL;DR bit a shot:

1. No one is talking about someone pulling one or two extar mobs on them.

2. I, at least, won’t mind if you mis-pulled, need a hand, and pull em over. Some may, I like to hope many won’t.

3. I’m not gonna hoof it across an entire zone fighting every last mob that aggros me either. Just like I’ll avoid any geographic feature that would slow me up so I don’t have to face all that aggro, the other players will get at least that much effort from me as well. Accidents happen though, if it does, I’ll help you fight it out or at the very least rez you (much appreciated for taking that stance as well).

4. If it’s a PvP feature that sounds great and a nifty tactic to have in one’s repertoire. If we’re gonna go so far as to remove open world PvP to nix griefing then this mechanic seems like it should be on the nix list too, and a lot higher up than OW-PvP.

Thanks for the support and bump friend. At the very least I just want the part of the community that are unaware of this social faux pas to hear about it, avoid it, and hopefully improve community interaction lacking any other recourse.

(I suppose I’m also kinda intending / hoping these posts will come to the attention of the game developers and I guess I’m being so long winded in hopes of making my case there as well. Yeah, certain specific instances of this happening to me thus far in game have irked me that much.).

Nyota.7062:

It’s funny how the OP spawned the association of ‘to train something on someone’ with the (choo-choo) train and everyone jumps aboard.^^

To train is just a synonym of to aim (e.g. the execution squad trained their rifles at the victim’s head). In mmo terminology you don’t create a train of mobs, but train a (or several) mob(s) at a player.

On topic: I don’t see an issue here, unless you’re afking in the open field – and there’s an easy fix for that (e.g. don’t afk in the open field).

edit: Also, the Dawn of the Dead remake did not invent the fast zombie. 28 Days Later did. And because Rocket loves thatkittenmovie so much (“…an alpha predator doesn’t walk to its prey.”), we can’t have the slow’n’shambling type, we crave so much

I stand corrected. Honestly just couldn’t remember which flick came out first. That first scene with the BF hauling kitten after his GF in the car and then just the, “ah well, kitten it, this guy ’ll do”, and the “ddduuhhhh…” kind of expression the dude in his front yard had seemed so poignant. I also found it so insanely hilarious, I spontaneously just exploded into laughter in the theater when I first saw it. I just could not stop laughing either! Oh yeah and the dude in the middle of the street with the gun as she’s getting in the car?!?! The one who just gets just downright ERASED by the ambulance that mows over him at like 90 mph!!! Oh… My… Kittening… GOD!!! I literally had to leave the theater after those two scenes, I kitten you not!!!

Oh yeah, and I’ve had Richard Cheese’s version of “Down with the Sickness” on my phone as my ring tone for calls from work ever since. Excellent movie if for no other reason than those in my opinion!

Good catch though.

Interesting about the etymology for “train” as an MMO term by the way. All these years that’s been what I assumed was the meaning it was alliterating to. As a “choo-choo” train of mobs. Heh

P.S The scene in the beginning of 28 Days where they’re traveling to dude’s parents place and the one guy gets a few drops of blood on / in him and that chick just goes COMPLETELY APE – KITTEN on him hacking away before he even turns though – also pure comedy gold!!! I think that’s at least an excellent metaphor for the kind of rage I feel internally after some particularly kitten – holish instances of these types of events.

I protest that the OP is grossly unfair and defamatory to kittens the world over. I like kittens.

GreyWraith.8394:

I protest that the OP is grossly unfair and defamatory to kittens the world over. I like kittens.

I’ll own that one Sir. Sadly at the height of frustration the first victims are the kittens, puppies, baby seals, and any other cute, innocent, defenseless creature that finds it’s self unfortunately close at hand. Most often this manifests in me beating one to death with the yelping, flailing body of another. Another very important benefit to eliminating this senseless injustice of mob “training.” I’ve been unable to purchase gems in game thus far because my cute baby animal budget is just STAGGERING! Think of the cute baby animals folks and the horror they stand on the very edge of every evening of gameplay. Just imagine those poor little guy’s big, wide, cute, trusting eyes. Now imagine it being swung like a floppy, fury, mallet as hard as humanly possible against another wide eyed, cute, trusting little baby animal. IMAGINE THE HORROR!!! Every time you murder my toon by mob-train a poor baby kitten is beaten to death with another poor baby kitten. I SAID IMAGINE GOD-KITTEN IT!!!!

Ooohhhh…. you were referencing the peculiar profanity filter in these forums weren’t you? Um… <AHEM>, disregard the above. I don’t really do that (er… well as far as you know) :P.

Mayam.8976:

I stand corrected. Honestly just couldn’t remember which flick came out first.

I only know this because of the ‘fast vs slow’ discussion on the dayz boards and Rocket’s obsession with 28.^^

Actually, I was really surprised that the runner type is an invention of as late as the 2000s and, if you ask me, they should get rid of that type altogether again – it makes zombies more…conventional, I guess, diminishing their special appeal (or adding another layer, depending how you view it ofc).

The opening scene of Dawn of the Dead (remake) is pure gold anyway – the protagonist getting horribly ripped out of the normal, the weird camera angles (car trunk mount, birdseye) and the distant explosions, signalling the mayhem around. Though the bonus material is even better – there are a dozen of unused mock tv scenes showcasing the anchorman slowly losing his grips and a series where soldiers of fortune show the tv audience how to handle zeds.

And the ‘empty london’ scene of 28 really struck me, too. This is how they did it:

The first scene of an empty London was filmed early on a weekday morning. The director Danny Boyle organized for good-looking women to stop the traffic from entering the empty streets as he rightly reckoned the drivers would be more co-operative with good looking girls.

:D

This thread is about zombies, right?

are you guys serious, a game with dodge mechanics and swiftness, this game was built for getting into trouble and getting the heck out of it, its part of the fun its what makes me enjoyi it so much is the randomness of it all. i am going to take the extreme on this and say please train more often, this is not some sort of faux internet etiqutte failure this is someone is running away or going from point a to b. this is not a me first thing this is a oh crap im about to die im outta here thing…

is this really that hurtful? its like watching the train coming and a guy screaming his head off running in front of it and you just stand there…you could always attack the mobs he is running from to help that player out if you just stand there while i run by and that to me is the bigger problem than the training it self…if you stand there and get killed that means you didnt try and help or you didnt try and run either… you talk about this being all about selfishness on the part of the “train-er” but i feel its selfish for you to rage at your screen while i am getting chased by 20 mobs and you just stand there mining your orichalcum.

and to be honest when viewed from my perspective its almost justice or karma that you get caught up with the returning mobs, you could have helped but you couldnt be bothered and now that train is rolling back and you get hit by it wondering who can help you.

I got nostalgic for EverQuest when reading this thread. TRAIN TO ZONE!!

While I concede the point that getting hit by a train and dying is inconvenient, there are a few positives to come from it. The big one is that it can facilitate spontaneous group interactions similar to events. Think of a mob train as a player created event. Imagine getting into trouble and booking it for a nearby town or waypoint. Shout for help and you may arrive to find a group of fellow adventurers waiting to save you and get some exp and loot! You may even make some friends.

For the situations where someone does get taken down by a passing train there is hope because everyone can revive negating the need to wait for a ‘healing class.’

Since we’re all scaled to the zone you won’t see higher level characters griefing noob areas. Getting in over your head is sometimes unavoidable and is one thing that makes the game exciting. So toss on a conductor hat and fire up that train when the kitten hits the fan.

Choo choo!

This happened to me once when the krait witch event was going on and I didn’t notice. I wanted to get a vista on a high point and because of the many times that I already fell, I just couldn’t be bothered to fight my way back. What happened was I ended up training something like 9 mobs and a veteran on a poor guy. I didn’t even notice it happened until after when he raged repeatedly on map chat. I couldn’t figure out how idiotic that was until I came onto the forums to see this.

Nyota.7062:

Mayam.8976:

I stand corrected. Honestly just couldn’t remember which flick came out first.

I only know this because of the ‘fast vs slow’ discussion on the dayz boards and Rocket’s obsession with 28.^^

Actually, I was really surprised that the runner type is an invention of as late as the 2000s and, if you ask me, they should get rid of that type altogether again – it makes zombies more…conventional, I guess, diminishing their special appeal (or adding another layer, depending how you view it ofc).

The opening scene of Dawn of the Dead (remake) is pure gold anyway – the protagonist getting horribly ripped out of the normal, the weird camera angles (car trunk mount, birdseye) and the distant explosions, signalling the mayhem around. Though the bonus material is even better – there are a dozen of unused mock tv scenes showcasing the anchorman slowly losing his grips and a series where soldiers of fortune show the tv audience how to handle zeds.

And the ‘empty london’ scene of 28 really struck me, too. This is how they did it:

The first scene of an empty London was filmed early on a weekday morning. The director Danny Boyle organized for good-looking women to stop the traffic from entering the empty streets as he rightly reckoned the drivers would be more co-operative with good looking girls.

:D

This thread is about zombies, right?

It wasn’t but you’re swaying me. A bonus disc set of Dawn of the Dead you say? I must find this…

brickforlife.1364:

This happened to me once when the krait witch event was going on and I didn’t notice. I wanted to get a vista on a high point and because of the many times that I already fell, I just couldn’t be bothered to fight my way back. What happened was I ended up training something like 9 mobs and a veteran on a poor guy. I didn’t even notice it happened until after when he raged repeatedly on map chat. I couldn’t figure out how idiotic that was until I came onto the forums to see this.

Understood. That’s why we’re here doing what we do; so that the whole GW2 playing world learns of this. No hard feelings. It happens at times even when ya know to watch out for. Just being aware and helping when the kitten does splatter off the ‘1oo Blades’ Great sword is all anyone can ask.

In early DAOC, you could pull mobs across the entire world. Naturally, people found it funny to pull level 50 mobs to the starting areas and such…

Good times!

/pain train inc

Ten.8421:

You must have never been to the Orr zones.
In many areas there, it is hard to nearly impossible to see if there are other players past the next pointy coral cliff. It is also nearly impossible to properly fight your way forward to whatever place you’re trying to reach, thanks to extremely fast respawns. Running like hell and praying you’ll live is the only thing you can do.
I never begrudge a player who trains Risen on me in these zones. They’re just trying to get to the next waypoint in under an hour, just like I do.

Likewise, many people you probably assume to be training are actually just running for their lives… more than once, I have seen people merrily killing some mobs, when suddenly Dynamic Event! 10 mobs spawn in front of you! (Been the victim of it too. Never managed to run. I’m a bit slow that way.)

In short: yes, this game’s system allows training, and newbies might be served well knowing this… but the game also forces running for your life sometimes, and as an unintended victim of angry mob trains, you’re well served to remember that. (Definitely served my own blood pressure well.)

I just gotta say earlier today I was merrily slaughtering separatists with my jaguar and short bow when BOOM pops a dynamic event to kill separatist trebuchets that are surrounding me, each guarded by about 3-4 separatists.

Hmm…i thought to myself. What to do?

Wel it’s simple. I stood there and shot them all to death, destroyed the trebuchets, and continued standing there while murdering more separatists.

The moral of this story? Well..i don’t think it has one

Train to xxxx zone ! Move it ,or lose it !

I actually miss seeing stuff like that in games today.It always gave the players in game something to social about and have a laugh or just band together in general.

Of coarse back in the day when it was deemed approriate to give train warning shouts,if anyone got flattened by the train,we would organize a rescue party. (yes,some games content WAS that hard years ago,and death penalties were harsh by todays standards)

At any rate,unless you get one hit killed by mobs in GW2,you can always do a runner and lose aggro in a matter of seconds,then come back to whatever you were doing.

Situational awareness skills are worth honing no ? =P

Bosley.6403:

Fansy the Famous Bard, anyone?

YES! I was just thinking that… Those of us who remember EQ, remember Fansy… No one did it better! It makes me wonder if Fansy is here, and if he is a mesmer this time around?

But yeah, like the OP said, training = bad… try to avoid it please.