Guild Wars 2

Yesterday a guy from my guild told us he got hit by a iZerker for 15k… i thought he was just confused but now that i read this…. there might actually be something buggy, maybe some new trait interaction.

People also haven’t realized that with the Ferocity change crit damage in pvp on the zerker amulet actually got buffed. That’s why everything is hitting harder. It’s amazing that this happens and people complain but thieves have been backstabbing for 10k+ since always.

The crit damage just needs to be lowered again that’s all if you guys a really think it’s so bad.

Raunchy.6891:

People also haven’t realized that with the Ferocity change crit damage in pvp on the zerker amulet actually got buffed. That’s why everything is hitting harder. It’s amazing that this happens and people complain but thieves have been backstabbing for 10k+ since always.

The crit damage just needs to be lowered again that’s all if you guys a really think it’s so bad.

They only think its bad because its not a thief doing the damage.

Raunchy.6891:

People also haven’t realized that with the Ferocity change crit damage in pvp on the zerker amulet actually got buffed. That’s why everything is hitting harder. It’s amazing that this happens and people complain but thieves have been backstabbing for 10k+ since always.

The crit damage just needs to be lowered again that’s all if you guys a really think it’s so bad.

Just to clarify this for you, top-end crit damage is almost exactly the same (except for the effects of runes/sigils). You get more crit. damage from amulets, but less from the line that contains crit. damage/ferocity.

Previously, you got 20% crit. damage from the amulet/jewel, and 30% from the trait line. Now you get 20% from the trait-line, and 30% from the amulet.

Also, I am pretty sure there is something wacky with how crits are scaling on these things, perhaps counting 1 ferocity as 1 crit damage?

Maybe renegade could shed some light on the screenshot?

What was he (the Mesmer) running. Which runes and sigils?
Same for the Thief.

If something is bugged it is most likely not the Phantasm itself. The screenshot makes it pretty obvious because there is a second iWarlock which deals significantly less damage to the same target. IF something is bugged I either suspect a scaling issue, ferocity, extensive Might stacking (not really a bug) or a rune/sigil related issue. Maybe Phantasmal Haste?

The only thing I can tell is that I personally didn’t see those damage spikes in PvP so far (Staff/Sw+Sw, zerker amulet, without any Phantasm traits). I’m very curious what might be causing them and if there actually is a problem. I really don’t want to see ANet break another Phantasm because of some half-baked reasons and whining.

What is considered “normal” damage? Today I was hit on my Necro with Rabid Amulet for 8k twice in a matter of seconds. However I didn’t look if I had conditions on me at the time.

Lue.6538:

Raunchy.6891:

People also haven’t realized that with the Ferocity change crit damage in pvp on the zerker amulet actually got buffed. That’s why everything is hitting harder. It’s amazing that this happens and people complain but thieves have been backstabbing for 10k+ since always.

The crit damage just needs to be lowered again that’s all if you guys a really think it’s so bad.

They only think its bad because its not a thief doing the damage.

They think its bad because its a IA (where the mesmer its in stealth) doing the damage. The thief must be exposed, and BS have position requirements, melee range and puts revealed on the thief. Mesmer only push a button and facerrolls in stealth

What’s funny is the lack of complaints every time they accidentally make a Mesmer mechanic brokenly strong.

Says a lot about Mesmer viability IMO.

I spent a while trying to reproduce crazy high warlock hits on the target golems with various builds. Didn’t get anywhere close to 12.8k with a pure phantasm build. I did see a swordsman crit the light armor golem for 7k but there was a bunch of vulnerability stacks on it, and 6k crit was more usual.

As far as I can tell the damage is basically the same as before the patch.

Well Mesmers share the same hate that MM got/ still gets because both rely on braindead AI to win. Who likes to be taken out by the system?

Anyway they rly seem to be hitting harder. Would br awesome if someone got any sorta concrete numbers.

warlock did 8k on my war, i was likeholyeff

Neurophen.9738:

I spent a while trying to reproduce crazy high warlock hits on the target golems with various builds. Didn’t get anywhere close to 12.8k with a pure phantasm build. I did see a swordsman crit the light armor golem for 7k but there was a bunch of vulnerability stacks on it, and 6k crit was more usual.

As far as I can tell the damage is basically the same as before the patch.

If you’re not able to get the same crits other mesmers are getting, you may want to check with some experienced ones on how to do it.

Almost everyone has noticed it happen by now.

The bottom line is that you can’t have this type of damage coming from ANY scenario…much less one that is pet AI and not even a 180 second cooldown type.

What’s even funnier is that people are trying to justify it based on conditions on the target.

Are you saying it’s fair to have someone able to put a ton of conditions on you AND do this extreme damage too?…All on short cooldowns???…lol

Even if you claim 100% of the conditions came from another source (which isn’t likely), this is ridiculous if the game is balanced on team play.

Veterans of this game will remember we already went through similar stuff in the past where Ranger pets were doing too much damage and had no range restrictions. They could just sit back and let the pets do all the work. This was absurd…even for Rangers 100% spec’d for pet damage…and it was fixed.

Necro pets never did anything NEAR this type of damage, yet they just had their damage shaved too…so trying to justify this Mesmer phantasm damage is just embarrassing.

But like I said earlier…no matter what…people will still contrive excuses and scenarios to say this is fine and balanced…so keep the entertainment flowing.

How exactly are people pulling these off? In custom arena against stationary zerk geared friends my phantasms have never hit for more than 6k (and that was just once), even with full phantasm builds or full condi + warlock use with might stacks.

Clearly this is intended gameplay to be 2 shotted by AI.

This is normal. There were many threads like this one and various tests determined that the damage did not change whatsoever. It has always been there. Oh so you got hit with a 13k critical strike by a super slow-moving projectile which was thrown by a phantasm who can be killed with two hits and who attacks once every red moon and deals that much damage when you are a glass cannon filled with conditions? Stop the QQing really. This is a l2p issue.

Just to add to this AI madness: Hammer of Wisdom hits for over 10k on zerker builds

Silvanus.5821:

This is normal. There were many threads like this one and various tests determined that the damage did not change whatsoever. It has always been there. Oh so you got hit with a 13k critical strike by a super slow-moving projectile which was thrown by a phantasm who can be killed with two hits and who attacks once every red moon and deals that much damage when you are a glass cannon filled with conditions? Stop the QQing really. This is a l2p issue.

Nothing in this game – let alone a random clone casting – should hit this hard in one hit. With everything that goes on versus staff mesmers you think it’s that easy to avoid it?

Nabbo.2845:

Silvanus.5821:

This is normal. There were many threads like this one and various tests determined that the damage did not change whatsoever. It has always been there. Oh so you got hit with a 13k critical strike by a super slow-moving projectile which was thrown by a phantasm who can be killed with two hits and who attacks once every red moon and deals that much damage when you are a glass cannon filled with conditions? Stop the QQing really. This is a l2p issue.

Nothing in this game – let alone a random clone casting – should hit this hard in one hit. With everything that goes on versus staff mesmers you think it’s that easy to avoid it?

Let me explain to you how flawed your logic really is. You have a thief or a warrior, he can deal 7k crit damage on glass cannons once every 3 seconds (It’s much more than that but let’s go with it). Now you have a phantasm that attacks every 6 seconds and deals around 8k crit damage on glass cannons. If you are suffering from many types of different conditions (probably around 6-7) which is impossible with this build (So another player has to apply them) it deals 13k crit damage.

Now, as you can see, they both deal the same amount of damage overall, even though the phantasm’s damage is very unreliable. But there’s more to prove how stupid and easy to counter this mesmer build really is. The phantasm attack is a projectile (Which means it will hit any pets/other players/walls along the way. This makes it very unreliable. On top of this, the phantasm can be killed really easily. After you dodge the first hit of the phantasm, you simply attack a few times and it goes away. When the phantasm is dead, the mesmer is utterly useless.

As you can see, this is clearly a l2p issue.

Silvanus.5821:

Now you have a phantasm that attacks every 6 seconds and deals around 8k crit damage on glass cannons.

But it’s not happening only to glass cannons. I’m currently routinely getting hit with 8k phantasm damage on my Necro with Rabid amulet.

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

Silvanus.5821:

Now you have a phantasm that attacks every 6 seconds and deals around 8k crit damage on glass cannons.

But it’s not happening only to glass cannons. I’m currently routinely getting hit with 8k phantasm damage on my Necro with Rabid amulet.

You probably had conditions on you. On the heavy golem (2597 armor I think) it deals 5.5k crit damage at most without conditions. Keep in mind that this is the main source of damage of the mesmer since he has to sacrifice a lot of power (Otherwise the phantasms won’t deal that much crit damage since the mesmer won’t have a lot of ferocity) and he can’t use his shatter skills. Considering the unreliability of this build and how easily it can be countered once you learn the rotation (Not to mention how easily the phantasms are killed when there’s AOE attacks going on), I personally rate this build average. Shatter builds with interrupts and utility outperform this build in every possible way (Although they are harder to play).

will this take another 8 month to fix?

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Pyroathiest.4168:

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Yknow what I did when pets started dealing twice as much damage as normal? I reported it. I didn’t come on the forums claiming it had always been like that. Grow up.

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Yknow what I did when pets started dealing twice as much damage as normal? I reported it. I didn’t come on the forums claiming it had always been like that. Grow up.

And neither did I. I hopped ingame and tested out the iWarlock thoroughly. It has precisely the same damage coefficient and scaling as pre-patch. People are just having fits because of the strength runes and battle sigil combo boosting damage.

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Yknow what I did when pets started dealing twice as much damage as normal? I reported it. I didn’t come on the forums claiming it had always been like that. Grow up.

I knew the amount of damage of the warlock and pretty much of most phantasms of the mesmer before the patch. I tested it after the claims that it deals extraordinary damage, and guess what, it’s the same thing.

Well I’m sure we are all glad you two think this is fine but the rest of us is waiting for this to get fixed.

Nerf might.

Enjoy the cheese, I’d say. You’re still playing the game after all, so it can’t be DAT bad.

I can confirm something’s broken with AI damage.
Also was hit by over 8K by hammer of wisdom while wearing rabid so having like 2800 armor …. Intended ? O_o

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Yknow what I did when pets started dealing twice as much damage as normal? I reported it. I didn’t come on the forums claiming it had always been like that. Grow up.

Pyro is the last person who tries to hide anything and the Mesmer community probably is the the most transparent and constructive community on this forum I have experienced since I started playing.

Some people really need to get off of their high horse. Players saying that the damage has always been accessible or that they didn’t experience any change – like it is the case for my build – doesn’t mean that they are neglecting or hiding anything nor that they are ignorant or bad players. I really don’t get how some people seem to claim all the credibility for themselves while not bringing anything to this discussion besides being condescending towards others because they disagree or are sceptical.

So far I haven’t seen any proof that the Phantasm damage actually changed. Most people jump to conclusions and make a causal connection without any evidence. It might just be that equipment changed (e.g. Might runes like I suggested earlier) or that you encounter more Phantasm Mesmers in PvP now and aren’t used to them. Besides figuring out if the damage actually increased it is even more important to figure out why. Especially if it is equipment related nerfing Phantasms in general will hurt a whole class even though it isn’t even the reason for the potential imbalance.

Pyroathiest.4168:

And neither did I. I hopped ingame and tested out the iWarlock thoroughly. It has precisely the same damage coefficient and scaling as pre-patch. People are just having fits because of the strength runes and battle sigil combo boosting damage.

Thanks for clarifying. Did you test them with 20-25 Might stacks? I was suspecting something like this because the coefficients could easily blow the damage out of proportion. Runes of Strength are just silly.

Don’t you think it’s a bit odd that since the patch multiple people have come out and said ’ I’ve been hit by this illusion/hammer for 8k+damage all of a sudden’ ? The fact this wasn’t happening before the patch shows that maybe…maybe something changed?

Also what are the chances that each person who was hit happened to have 10 unique conditions, 25 stacks of vulnerability and the mesmer casting had achieved 25 stacks of might? Even then it shouldn’t be hitting for that much no matter how you calculate it.

Too many perfect storms.

OP: ok to light up some of what build I used and what build the thief used and the situation we were in.

Here’s the build I used:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFFZ;1VPk31y6cVF71;9;4JJT;021-19-47A;4Uol6S;1H7W3H7W35w
as you can see I used heavy might stacking so it was very possible I had 25 might stacks. Furthermore 25 vulnerability stacks is also possible. Even a load of conditions is possible with staff clones attack and chaos storm. So that might be the reason we saw this huge damage, however I’ve never seen this amount of damage before from an illusion. The highest I’ve ever had before the patch has been around 7-8k (but I never really achieved easy 25 mights stacks and the strength runes).

now on to the thief build, the thief was using the standard 10/30/0/0/30 build with berserker amulet

situation:
it was in a 1v1 server where I was fighting the thief, moa never got used in the duel.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

i beleve i’ve asked you earlier to avoid referring to me in your rude and offensive outbursts.

Summon 3 warlocks on high ground, bring someone to bomb with extra conditions,
and boom you have 30k+ dmg pumping out passively every 6 seconds + your own weapon damage. But alas it’s not broken ! 4-6k backstab every ~6 second is, cuz teef so opee.

Yes, 13k backstab is possible too, but it’s not easy and least of all passive, hell I got dodged and countered a lot while trolling with the glassiest thief build in spvp, but I suppose EU players are better than US players-

Most thieves would agree signets of power with 4 signets is broken or/and useless.

6/6/0/0/2 with 21 might from blowing 4 signets and steal + scholar runes vs. squishy elementalist, 26.7k spike dmg. But the thing is, it’s overkill dmg vs. a glassy elementalist, but a warrior on the other hand would survive the spike and stunlock and kill me right afterwards.

Ghostwolf.9863:

Summon 3 warlocks on high ground, bring someone to bomb with extra conditions,
and boom you have 30k+ dmg pumping out passively every 6 seconds + your own weapon damage. But alas it’s not broken ! 4-6k backstab every ~6 second is, cuz teef so opee.

You can’t summon 3 warlocks immediately. There’s a cool-down you know. You make it sound as if it’s so easy to deal 10k damage with each warlock. And it doesn’t even crit all the time, if it doesn’t you’ll have to wait another 6 seconds for it to attack again. And if you would have 2 players attacking a glass cannon, 30k damage in 6 seconds (Without dodging anything) is actually pretty low.

I don’t really care if they nerf this or not. I’m a mesmer and I don’t use this build because it can be countered too easily, and doesn’t deal that much damage as everyone think it does (Overall, not on a single-hit). It reminds me of the R/N toucher build in GW1. Everyone thought it was OP when in fact, it’s one of the stupidest builds in GW1. I just hope they don’t nerf it in such a way so that other builds get affected.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Popping in to say we’re still looking into summon damage.

While you are at it can you please look at Rangers pet toughness?. After the patch Rangers pets were hitting for 8-12k auto attacks. they were also very squishy)died in 1-2 hits). Well the next day you guys hotfixed the pet damage….but never addressed there toughness/squishyness. My pets die right away in an aoe storm…before April 15th, I could at least call them back and save them.

Thread in Bug Forum with lots of complaints: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-pet-take-too-much-damage-after-patch

Stacking 25 Vuln and averaging around 18Might with strength runes, I was able to achieve 8k Crits on training golems. and 9k Warden crits.

While Plausible, the set up time is actually quite long..

Evan Lesh.3295:

Popping in to say we’re still looking into summon damage.

I think you will notice that having SOME summons scale with the owners stats and some NOT will create problems if major things change with buff/stats/gear/etc. (i.e. like this recent patch).

I think WoW dealt with a similar issue many years ago and just decided to have everything scale because it was too difficult to constantly change things every time a new tier of gear got released and some classes didn’t get the full benefit.

In GW2 case, it looks like the few summons that DO SCALE are the outliers and creating the more drastic problem.

However, the ones that don’t scale can create equal problems because they will do far too much damage when the owner is specd strictly for defense/healing/tank.

A quick fix is possible, but I think this is the core problem you guys will eventually have to address.

SPESHAL.9106:

Neurophen.9738:

I spent a while trying to reproduce crazy high warlock hits on the target golems with various builds. Didn’t get anywhere close to 12.8k with a pure phantasm build. I did see a swordsman crit the light armor golem for 7k but there was a bunch of vulnerability stacks on it, and 6k crit was more usual.

As far as I can tell the damage is basically the same as before the patch.

If you’re not able to get the same crits other mesmers are getting, you may want to check with some experienced ones on how to do it.

There are a finite number of traits which boost phantasm damage. I tried all of them and nothing caused phantasms to do crazy damage in controlled circumstances in HoTM. There could be a bug but I’ve yet to run into it personally.

What is needed is solid evidence not anecdote. If there is a bug it should be possible to reproduce it. Otherwise the chances the devs will fix it is near zero.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Popping in to say we’re still looking into summon damage.

Thank you!
i felt helpless… xx3020x with soldiers ammy against a mesmer and he’s melting my hp away…
i didn’t know what to do
/cry

renegade.4851:

Here’s the build I used:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFFZ;1VPk31y6cVF71;9;4JJT;021-19-47A;4Uol6S;1H7W3H7W35w
as you can see I used heavy might stacking so it was very possible I had 25 might stacks. Furthermore 25 vulnerability stacks is also possible. Even a load of conditions is possible with staff clones attack and chaos storm. So that might be the reason we saw this huge damage, however I’ve never seen this amount of damage before from an illusion. The highest I’ve ever had before the patch has been around 7-8k (but I never really achieved easy 25 mights stacks and the strength runes).

now on to the thief build, the thief was using the standard 10/30/0/0/30 build with berserker amulet

situation:
it was in a 1v1 server where I was fighting the thief, moa never got used in the duel.

Thanks for posting this.

Might and Vulnerability stacking might indeed be the reason for the high damage. It would also explain why I personally do not experience those spikes. Additionally, you used Phantasmal Fury and a lot of precision which makes crits very likely. Besides an insanely high possible power value of 3088 (which scales extremly well with the iWarlock) you had three potentially high damage multipliers (10%-90% from conditions, 15% from Empowered Illusions and 3-25% from Vulnerability). This could easily explain your Phantasm damage. Especially since the Thief literally had no form of damage mitigation.

As you said yourself, Mesmers haven’t been able to stack Might that easily before the patch. Runes of Strength are the main culprit here. This might also explain why people haven’t seen those numbers from Phantasms in PvP so far. But as said earlier, they aren’t that uncommon for PvE. I still wonder if Ferocity might be a factor, though.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Popping in to say we’re still looking into summon damage.

Please do something about this. Also, check into all AI damage. Svanir and Chieftain hurt like never before. Spirit Weapons are dealing damage that was unheard of pre-patch.

Etc, Etc..

Thanks Evan, all people want is to be reassured things are working as intended.

Also, the test ai mobs are hitting really hard since the patch. Their downed state throws hit for 2k!

Or was an increase in their damage meant to happen?

Yeah and Illusionary swordsman for 6.5k on 2500 armor plus protection… while same person hit me with the smoke bomb for 4k (downed state).

Thanks Evan for this !
As others have said before, yeah, make sure to check all AI damage since yeah, Svanir and Chieftain hit like a truck now.
I would not be surprised if minions from necros were also affected by this.

And finally, I don’t know if it could be normal, but this seems to only affect PvP, I haven’t noticed any difference in damage from my phantasms in PvE, has anyone noticed some ?
(I know it’s PvP subforum but more information could help them find the solution faster)

Pyroathiest.4168:

infantrydiv.1620:

Pyroathiest.4168:

gesho.9468:

will this take another 8 month to fix?

Probably longer, seeing as it isn’t broken, there’s just a high quantity of fools that think it is.

Yknow what I did when pets started dealing twice as much damage as normal? I reported it. I didn’t come on the forums claiming it had always been like that. Grow up.

And neither did I. I hopped ingame and tested out the iWarlock thoroughly. It has precisely the same damage coefficient and scaling as pre-patch. People are just having fits because of the strength runes and battle sigil combo boosting damage.

lmao, such a blatant lie, they might not be doing twice as much but the numbers are still much higher than before, and that’s before strength runes / sigils etc etc

was testing some full phantasm dmg build, but couldnt see more than 7k dmg with izerker. Does iWarlock dmg scale with bloodlust stacks, might on mesmer ?
cause if it does…well, could be 25 stack bloodlust + 25 might (1125 more power) + 30% more dmg from traits + 10% more dmg from some 10 random stacks of vulnerability + lets say 60% more dmg from 6 conditions on the target, it sums up to 100% more dmg with an already buffed base dmg.
This could explain that burst. Anyway its really an extremely situational dmg.

renegade.4851:

12.8k warlock against a thief, because anet

Good try to get a class nerfed. but you failed on several parts.

1) How many conditions did the necromancer put on you in that fight before the mesmer joined in ?

2) How many stacks of vuln /might where in that fight ?

3) you yourself using a full glasscanon thief build…….

So basicly for me this looks like the following situation.

A necro and mesmer stacking vulnerabilety and might , then the necro does spite, and

the mesmers phantasms ( that where already spawned before the necro spite) hit the thief ( that could not be anymore glassy ).

What i find strange tho is that you got hit twice from iwarlock / twice from isword without you doing anything in that timespan, not even hitting a clone or anything.

Smells like a max damage test that needs 2 opponents to pull it of , and alot of time stacking vuln/might/ bloodlust. In hopes that mesmers would be nerfed even harder.