Edit2:
Listen to the mesmer king http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699
Edit:
I fortunately dont play against PUs very often and still they always lose points. But i am very scared of such stuff ever becoming remotely viable. I also despise the idea, that someone may be giving their best in lets say top80-90% soloq, but losing to such lame builds.
I wish mesmers a working scepter weapon set, and a removed Prismatic Understanding trait.
PU is a trash spvp build that can’t burst and can’t hold a point, and lacks the condi removal to sustain in current meta. None of this will change. It’s a trash troll build.
+1 for dueling in the mists.
+1 for 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch
Hey hey they did not buff PU ok they didn’t. They buffed shatter condition mesmer can we all agree on that? Now we might the rise of the torment masters in WWW Runes of Tormenting in process that means split of usual PU to possible shatter mesmer.
And yes until conquest is changed PU is not widely seen in pvp and don’t forget this game is not about 1v1.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
Trash build in spvp? Are you kidding me? It destroys anyone in a 1v1. How is that trash? I recently got my 150 Spvp wins for my Champion Illusionist title. I played PU for most of it. I destroyed anyone who tried to take me on 1v1, I harassed far point all game. I was an absolute nightmare to deal with, and single handedly won my team the game many times.
They aren’t even trying at this point. They don’t play the game nor do they have any idea what actually happens in the game and they aren’t ashamed to show it apparently. 6 months of developement and we get more condi spam, less counterplay and colored commander tags
While I love Anet for giving mesmer some love, I think that this change will make PU mesmers really, really powerful and will need a nerf soon. If you want to buff scepters condi output in such way, nerf PU first. I’d rather see confusion on there than torment tbh. Torment is supposed to be a necromancer specific condition. Confusion is a mesmer specific condition and mesmers suck at applying confusion.
PU mesmer will be strong in solo Q. A build that can push far, win any 1v1 and hold a 1v2 for a long time is always good in solo Q.
While you’re fighting 2 scrubs at far point, your team will outnumber them at other points. Easy yolo Q win.
PU trait works only when you stealth —> If you stealth you lose the point
Only a reterd can’t decap (And even fullcap a PU mesmer) he’s not even gonna kill you if you just ignore him and clean condis here and there, let alone holding something 1v2 lol
Already got some scrubs PU mesmers pushing my close while on warrior i just /sit there…after 30-40 secs they usually just left (If it takes more you can just lb f1 and sit again)…problem solved
Helseth is correct, this change makes condi mesmer a brainlessly easy, must too-strong build that will dominate every 1v1 and still have good application in teamfights due to extra bounces too. This makes mesmer on par with dhuumfire-buffed necro, except without the weakness of dying to focus-fire/CC chains.
Most medical treatments suggest excising or killing a cancer, not actively nurturing and growing it.
I don’t think it is really him. He is the one speaking, but doesn’t make all the balance decisions.
The problem in this game is that it lacks a balance team. They are slow to make changes and when they do make changes, it doesn’t effect the items that are actually broken.
Archaon plz stop …
You hated the condtion-no-skill meta in the past , but now you seem like a happy little girl for some reason :P
I love the change about Mesmers
I am betting 3 gold , that they remove the clones’s % chance on hit to burn , and the Condtion Mesmer will simply punish ppl for moving with the new auto-attack +clones
The scary thing is PU wouldn’t be the biggest issue.The condi changes are so op you wouldn’t even need it, just passively shred anything with the constant torment/bleed stacks. Illusionary elasticity was enough of a buff to condi specs, adding the torment buff to sceptor on top is just nuts.
Weapon sets in this game live and die by their auto attacks. For a weapon set to be extremely powerful it needs a strong auto attack. So it is easy to underestimate the potential power of an auto attack applying torment to a target. It will have to be played with to see its true power, but buffs to auto attacks are extremely significant. (dhuumfire was basically a buff to auto attacks as then then applied burning)
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
Thieves can’t hold points , they must be trash tier in PvP. Wait what…
Thieves have high mobility (have you ever seen a PU mesmer try to chase someone?), much longer lasting stealth and MUCH higher damage. PU is pretty useless in coordinated PvP.
“Power is like the illuminati of Guild Wars.” -Loshon
“PU mesmer stealth too much.” So can ranger, engineer, thief. What’s the point here? Mesmer is not the only profession that can stealth and also obtain boons from stealthing.
“The clone spam will be cancerous.” All Mesmer phantasms/clones target the correct player if the player targets the real mesmer. With additionals of turrets seeking, ranger pets being more effective and revealed increases All AI will accurately work through other AI.
“Torment is too strong for an auto attack.” Torment only does it’s max damage when the target is moving. The torment will last for 2 second duration, potentially 4 if you sucessively hit with 3rd attack, even more if you sucessively block a melee attack, even more if you successive;y shatter with the specific grand master traits. Bleed is a far more reliable condition and burning is a far damaging condition. Ranger currently can easily stack 12 bleeds and poison with autoattack and use of traiting and pets. Off Guards can currently apply 30 seconds of burning even though they are not condition spec’s. Thief obtains double strike and poison+ bleed with sigils and will now hit 2 targets on AA. The point is, a lot of professions can deliver respectable power and condition stacks from AA with traiting or sigils. Memser scepter is now one of those weapons. After the glamour nerfs scepter became a s0-so weapon. It now a condition weapon that is only effective at some what stacking one condition in small numbers consistently.
I think this hype of PU warranted if you’re paranoid and groundless if you’re not. The fix to illusionary elasticity will have far greater impact and the reworked iwarden wasn’t even demonstrated.
I think it all still needs to be seen before QQ’ed.
The torment spam will allow PU mesmers to kill much faster and pressure much faster.
They won’t even need PU, let alone a brain to win fights.
This is only ur speculation. How much faster will the damage pressure comes out? Have u done a calculation or have you already tested it out. How does the new scepter clone do compare to the staff clone?
The current reality is if u don’t have a brain and play pu condition, you are essentially just a troll not being able to accomplish anything.
It will be enough:
2secs on each auto 4 secs on last auto plus clone generated applies torment if I remember correctly.
I dont know what to say except rotate 2 guardians/ water ele’s around the mesmer lmao
The fact that mesmers can’t hold point with PU is irrelevant AND wrong. I can easily see a PU mesmer as a mid point supporter. Their role won’t be the one of a Shatter Mesmer. PU will be used only when they are focused in team fights or when trying to escape from a lost fight. The pressure they can put out with the added Torment is insane.
Also, the 4s Torment application will be on the 2nd attack, not on the third. This would ensure an average of 4 Torment stacks just from the Mesmer Auto. With clones up, that can reach 5 (assuming 2 clones).
5 stacks of Torment means death if not cleansed ASAP, and this is without counting the Block(5 more stacks) , the bleeds and the Confusion)
Powerpuff Girls [PPG]
Trixxi Is Cute – Purple Fhaz: your daily roamer
The buff to scepter auto attack and the change to illusionary elasticity will make condi Mesmer absurdly strong. You don‘t even need to run PU to make it work, you can slap on a celestial and “play” phantasm Mesmer and 1v1 anyone on point without stealth. Parentheses because it’s going to be pure unadulterated AI stupidity. Any cretin can play the spec and 1v1 efficiently, because you just need to auto attack and dodge occasionally while letting your illusions do the work. The only saving grace is that it lacks team fight presence, but it’s still way more powerful than it should be.
Bottom line – The proposed scepter AA buff is a boo boo change that should not go through as is. Scepter needs love, that goes without saying, but giving its AA torment application is way over the top. And just to be clear, PU is a tiny footnote in this problem. Even if you remove the PU trait from the game completely, these changes will still make Mesmer broken, and not in a good way.
Been here since launch
Legend S1-S3 with 100% solo queue 100% conquest
Filthy casual, 6k sPvP games
I’ll give the condi PU thing a shot, but I’m far more interested in the potential the buffs have for a non-PU condi build. Perhaps a viable condi shatter. Perhaps some sort of condi phantasm build. Who knows. I doubt PU will be a viable build outside of 1v1s (even now, condi PU will just make someone stay at home or wherever until an ally can come chase him away), and the more likely way to get your mesmer into higher end pvp will be the interrupts, especially with the mantra buff and the staff clone buff (maybe something along the lines of scepter/pistol, staff 0 4 6 0 4. we shall have to wait and see)
Well I guess its about-time for them to make a meta-ruining change.
Flash back to last summer, things were relatively balanced. Power-burst builds (generally considered higher-skill) mostly ruled the meta, things were pretty good…
…Then the brilliant change known as Dhuumfire happened, at the same time they added torment to necros (along with some other changes), coupled with some major ele nerfs, and RUINED the meta.
Nowadays, the meta is relatively balanced. All types of specs see play, but burst is best when well-played.
…Then the brilliant change known as “Scepter AA Torment” came, at the same time illusionary elasticity was being changed (along with a few other buffs for mes), warrior’s get some major nerfs, and the meta might just spiral right back down the toilet.
Just play 100% defense while your passives and AI carry you. If you die as a PU mesmer in a 1v1, even just mashing skills off-CD, you are generally doing something really wrong.
Archaon plz stop …
You hated the condtion-no-skill meta in the past , but now you seem like a happy little girl for some reason :P
I love the change about Mesmers
I am betting 3 gold , that they remove the clones’s % chance on hit to burn , and the Condtion Mesmer will simply punish ppl for moving with the new auto-attack +clones
I still hate condition meta….i also hate being forced to play warrior because shatter mesmer is not dat viable outside a team made to play with it (Still waiting for shatter mesmer coming back to almost must have since one year ago), but PU is gonna still have pretty much no use (If your sustain comes from a trait that works in stealth you’re gonna have 0 point presence like thief, even tho s/d can still have some since evading doesn’t decap points, 0 point presence paired with attrition spec that is obviously gonna take long time before being able to win a fight on side, not sure if you’re gonna kill something anyway, it’s plain worthless) This is gonna be petty much like a condition thief, sort of good in theory but totally crap when it comes to the real deal…as a condi-spec in teamfight mesmer is not gonna be better that engi or necro, on side points 1v1 situations mesmer is not gonna be better than warrior or ele (Both very strong vs tanky condi specs like celestial engi that is already stronger that how PU mesmer is going to be after patch) Long story short condition mesmer is not gonna take necro’s or engi’s spot when running condi specs, dps mesmer is still gonna get owned by thieves and both condi or dps won’t be better than wars or eles on close…so, sad thing to say, mesmer is not going to really come back into meta imo. Maybe i’m wrong and i hope so…but we’ll see
The design of the build punishes a player for cleaving/aoe’s, so it takes some planning to take 1 down.
PU is not unbeatable, you often need to take you’re time and range often.
Like fighting a hambow, if you can kite you’ll pobably win ( or at least force the mes to retreat).
I like the idea of an attrition cond mesmer that punishes spam.
That being said, I also hope they nerf pu in some way (boons would do it , as another poster suggested 1 going into stealth another coming out? or something) cause a condition mesmer im ok with, an immortal cond mesmer im not)
Where are the conditions necros and engi,the D/D ele,pew pew ranger and other 1k range classes will suffer minor damage and shatter can be dodged so all I see is the beginning of a new build and improvement of poor weapon. Mesmer is still a 1v1 class in 5v5 game.If you didn’t know the devs don’t see PU condition mesmer they see PU trait (toughnessboon duration) so it is very unlikely it will get nerfed.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
You will potentially be able to have perma 10 stacks of torment on your target at all times, that’s absolutely nuts, this is one of the biggest flat damage buffs any weapon ever recieved, this is not going to go live if the balance team is worth anything.
Let me get it straight, Mesmer’s scepter has a block that applies 5 stacks of torment instantly and from 900 range, you can’t really see the animation if you block just before an attack hits, it’s really really strong. Yet it’s somehow right to nerf Warrior’s Impale due to high uptime (Illusionary Counter has higher uptime) when it’s a proyectile (and all that comes with it) that gets randomly blocked half the time or just misfires.
I know, two different classes, but I’m just trying to get their logic behind buffs and nerfs, I honestly don’t get it, they seem to not even play their own game at times.
The scepter block is useless when you fight multiple targets though, it almost always goes to something else attacking you like a minion or clone.
And all the clone attacks are single target too, so sure pu mesmer will be buffed a bit on a 1v1. But if that person stands still and doesn’t cast anything but his heal once in a while, that condi mesmer can’t hurt him or force him off a point.
The scepter block is useless when you fight multiple targets though, it almost always goes to something else attacking you like a minion or clone.
And all the clone attacks are single target too, so sure pu mesmer will be buffed a bit on a 1v1. But if that person stands still and doesn’t cast anything but his heal once in a while, that condi mesmer can’t hurt him or force him off a point.
It’s fun. The counter to AI is… AI.
Powerpuff Girls [PPG]
Trixxi Is Cute – Purple Fhaz: your daily roamer
The scepter block is useless when you fight multiple targets though, it almost always goes to something else attacking you like a minion or clone.
And all the clone attacks are single target too, so sure pu mesmer will be buffed a bit on a 1v1. But if that person stands still and doesn’t cast anything but his heal once in a while, that condi mesmer can’t hurt him or force him off a point.
The scepter block is useless when you fight multiple targets though, it almost always goes to something else attacking you like a minion or clone.
And all the clone attacks are single target too, so sure pu mesmer will be buffed a bit on a 1v1. But if that person stands still and doesn’t cast anything but his heal once in a while, that condi mesmer can’t hurt him or force him off a point.
It’s fun. The counter to AI is… AI.
How is Illusionary Counter AI..
Mesmer have always been AI based why q_q now about it? anyways you guys are making a huge deal out of pu mesmer build It can’t play in a competitive game it can’t HOLD a Point and takes a while to kill anything even in a 1v1 and in TEAM fight it’s worthless puff the turrent engi is more viable but still out of the meta. oh wait don’t tell me that it take a 2v1 for pu to die guess what so does many turret engi builds and they still not in the meta.
There’s so many classes that can put passively condis on AA heck even a war can put that fire field pretty much all the time and burning does way more dmg even without investment into condi, u all seen it. I see what the dev were trying to do and they want a condi shatter build to be meta so mesmers can survive the thieves pressure in team fight and fight back. Also don’t talk to me about wvw because this is a PVP forum and if u gonna say Im defending mesmer cus I main one tough lucky I main a bunker guardian some of you guys may know as siegfried the holy well there’s my rant of the day
