Guild Wars 2

It’s ridiculous how thief can survive any fight 1v1, it’s no point even fighting against them 1v1 (not talking about bad thiefs as those can be killed), but the thief has so many ways to come back in a fight, does not matter at what disadvantage he gets.

I had a fight with thief and got him to to hp lower than 10% like three times in a row and every time he just goes stealth and after few seconds comes back full or almost full health. At that point all my abilites are on cooldown, evade bar is empty and there is nothing I can do. That is insane.

Thief has like reset button. Every time they fail, they can fix it. I wish Anet would remove stealth from game as it is. It’s broken like hell. It’s stupid that you can go in stealth mid fight and run away (or even better wait 3/4 seconds in stealth doing nothing and heal yourself fully, remove all conditions and regen all initiative while your foe waits for you to be finished) when you feel like it.

+1. It’s a ridiculous mechanic that you have to find innovative ways to work around. Regardless of the fact that some people manage to do it, it’s still extremely unbalanced when you’re alone against a thief. I have no idea what Anet was thinking when they designed the class this way, but it’s too late (I think) to do anything about it now.

What gets me more than stealth these days is the initiative regen. Compare the thief with say a dd ele another burst type class/build. Ele uses his 5-7 moves in a row combo and does about as much dmg as one backstab. Yet the ele now has all those skills on long cooldowns and the thief never even used initiative for that backstab. When the thief does use the initiative its gained back in a few seconds.

So presumably from your post the thief is running hide in shadows (30s cooldown) and so for you to force a heal three times, the fight went on for at least 1.5 mins. Something doesnt sound right there…

Most thief fights are short duration – either you die, they’ll die, or if they’ll focus their attention on something more efficient. So either the theif you were playing wasn’t playing decently (you should have won), or the you’re playing a bunkery spec (you shouldn’t expect to win 1v1s). Either way it doesn’t add up.

Also if you’re playing in soloQ or teamQ and had a completely uninteruptted 1v1 for 1.5 mins + i’d be surprised. There’s no way far or mid point could have been uninteruptted for 1.5 mins, so it was probably close you were playing at, which means you were holding point for the whole duration of the fight and gained 90 points in that time while the theif contributed zero points to his team score.

Of course you could be playing hot join, but then you’d be even less likely to have a 1v1 and it really isnt a measure of what is balanced

Forgetful Phil.6370:

So presumably from your post the thief is running hide in shadows (30s cooldown) and so for you to force a heal three times, the fight went on for at least 1.5 mins. Something doesnt sound right there…

Most thief fights will be over within after the first heal – either you die, they’ll die, or if they’ll focus their attention on something more efficient. So either the theif your playing wasn’t playing decently (you should have won), or the you’re playing a bunkery spec (you shouldn’t expect to win 1v1s). Either way it doesn’t add up.

Also if you’re playing in soloQ or teamQ and had a completely uninteruptted 1v1 for 1.5 mins + i’d be surprised. There’s no way far or mid point could have been uninteruptted for 1.5 mins, so it was probably close you were playing at, which means you were holding point for the whole duration of the fight and gained 90 points in that time while the theif contributed zero points to his team score.

Of course you could be playing hot join, but then you’d be even less likely to have a 1v1 and it really isnt a measure of what is balanced.

It was a bit different, I was trying to kill him on mid point. He had like half health. Got him to very low health, then he vanished in stealth, I switched to other foe, then when he came back, he was almost full health. Then I switched back on him, got him to low health again. He started running away from mid point, I chased him down a bit, then he came back on me and we fought 1v1, I got him again on very low health, he used shadow refugee then came back full health again and finished me. I didn’t have any evades or defensive skills left.
And yes he was bunker build, if you can call him that.
The point is every time he got into stealth, he would heal very fast and there was nothing you could do to stop that.

All you have to do is load them up with conditions (I did it all the time on my P/P engie) since they have no real condition removal, and hit them with aoes when they go into stealth(most will stick close to you and think that invis =invincibility).

Its not that hard depending on what class you play. I dont have problems (before i stopped playing) with them on my engie/ranger/warrior.

clint.5681:

All you have to do is load them up with conditions (I did it all the time on my P/P engie) since they have no real condition removal, and hit them with aoes when they go into stealth(most will stick close to you and think that invis =invincibility).

Its not that hard depending on what class you play. I dont have problems (before i stopped playing) with them on my engie/ranger/warrior.

Actually thief can get trait that cleanse conditions when he goes in stealth

Tatsuo.1478:

It was a bit different, I was trying to kill him on mid point. He had like half health. Got him to very low health, then he vanished in stealth, I switched to other foe, then when he came back, he was almost full health. Then I switched back on him, got him to low health again. He started running away from mid point, I chased him down a bit, then he came back on me and we fought 1v1, I got him again on very low health, he used shadow refugee then came back full health again and finished me. I didn’t have any evades or defensive skills left.
And yes he was bunker build, if you can call him that.
The point is every time he got into stealth, he would heal very fast and there was nothing you could do to stop that.

Not sure I’m following your argument.

You’re complaining that a “bunker” thief heals too much, despite the bunker thief loosing a 2v1 at mid and frequently stealthing so it can’t hold a point. Clearly the spec is redundant. But I suppose you’re playing to stomp, not to win.

There are a lot of things about thief that are on the OP side, this isnt one of the them.

Tatsuo.1478:

clint.5681:

All you have to do is load them up with conditions (I did it all the time on my P/P engie) since they have no real condition removal, and hit them with aoes when they go into stealth(most will stick close to you and think that invis =invincibility).

Its not that hard depending on what class you play. I dont have problems (before i stopped playing) with them on my engie/ranger/warrior.

Actually thief can get trait that cleanse conditions when he goes in stealth

Yeah but thats one condition every few seconds, load him up with a couple stacks of different conditions and ether he runs or its GG for him. You cant spam enter stealth to get rid of them any more either.

I dont wanna call this a L2P issue because a lot of people seem to be un able to counter thieves, but if you play one for enough time you will how to counter most of them.

let say it’s 1 v 1 not about point. this is what most thiefs do in wvw though
typically 30 shadow arts

spam stealth until all condis are gone or heal up to full and come back to fight.

bhagwad.4281:

+1. It’s a ridiculous mechanic that you have to find innovative ways to work around. Regardless of the fact that some people manage to do it, it’s still extremely unbalanced when you’re alone against a thief. I have no idea what Anet was thinking when they designed the class this way, but it’s too late (I think) to do anything about it now.

Coming from a player who thinks Mesmer (A class that can’t be buffed or else it will be cancer) is balanced and takes skill once you understand the game.

Thief takes more skill than Mesmer any time of the day. Cause at least Thief can’t provide boon stripping/condition cleanse on a large scale in top of FAIL SAFE CLEAVE in team fights.

I do not understand:

• Why steal and stealth skill do not use initiative…
• Why chill do not affects initiative regen.
• Why stealth do not have counter.
  At start…

Roll a tanky trapper.

Tatsuo.1478:

It was a bit different, I was trying to kill him on mid point. He had like half health. Got him to very low health, then he vanished in stealth, I switched to other foe, then when he came back, he was almost full health. Then I switched back on him, got him to low health again. He started running away from mid point, I chased him down a bit, then he came back on me and we fought 1v1, I got him again on very low health, he used shadow refugee then came back full health again and finished me. I didn’t have any evades or defensive skills left.

usually getting thief low health is no big deal, it usually takes couple of hits. its their last 10% that’s a real skill when against them. given all disengage that they have. i tell myself to keep whatever cc i have for that final bit.

This is most hard class to deal with in 1v1 – part/all round invul-check, evade-check, insane health regen-check – remember they got health when attack and if things got bad – flip away like no1 else. My main ranger can handle with some succsess most bunkers, only in case of some condy wars, but there is signet. But thief with right hands?? useless.. no sic else skills can do no good. “Roll a tanky trapper” im!! pointless..And i read some1 said chill so – no if he can erase more than 60% health with just steal – what u talkin about…(remeber he heals all way and no trap can help u) and yes i saw them cough in 3!!! traps in no time and no more then 30% dropped and surprise no condy after short time. And Amir – remember name of post? who talkin about teams here??
The only way 2 counter thievs is zerg which is lame, or another thief.:/

@OP:

I haven’t seen a thief run hide in shadows in quite some time at upper levels of solo queue. If you play at lower levels, that is fine, but just practice a bit. A thief who uses a lot of stealth in PvP isn’t that great. Stealth is a weakness here since you can’t take or hold points with it.

If this was a WvW conversation, it would be different.

Crowd Control, not damage is the Thief’s greatest enemy.

I understand their frequent stealths and teleports can be really irritating, especially if you don’t know them in detail, but Thieves do die, and die quite easily.

It’s just that conventional damage isn’t the best way to kill them.

CC and conditions will melts a Thief any time of the day. That’s why Engineers counter Thieves quite hard.

OP, are you sure you are posting in the right forum section? Any half decent thief won’t use SA or at least won’t sit in stealth all day simply because matches are about conquest and points and stealth is not exactly helping there. I do not believe that thief got his HP back so fast unless he used major heal or uses healing power + SA traits. Those thieves usually don’t do as much dmg, can be easily interrupred/CCd and even if you did die they didn’t gain much from it outside of 5 kill pts as long as you held your point long enough. PvP isn’t about 1v1 in most cases…

Besides, all honestly, it is easy easier to deal with thief than with good engi or necro imo.

Hammer is the current melee meta. Knockdowns destroy a thief. Even if they stealth for a trait on hit, you know they are still on the ground.

Conditions destroy a thief.

AOE can destroy a thief.

Shadow refuge requires them to stay in a small area for four seconds. Very vulnerable to aoe, fear, or AOE pulls/knockbacks.

As a thief, the options are there and I am always impressed when I see clever players come up with ways to react to it with common utilities and normal weapon skills. For example, I had a necro lock me down a bit earlier for an entire stealth duration with warhorn because they knew even though I did cloak and dagger that I was still in range.

The options are there. I don’t want to sound condescending, but just play smarter, maybe? There was a time we had to learn how to deal with clones, make sure to look for aegis on guardians before wasting cool-downs, figure out how to survive hundred blades. That’s the depth of the system.

Stealth is incredibly easy to react to once you figure out how you are going to deal with it and get into that habit reflexively.

AcidicVision.5498:

The options are there. I don’t want to sound condescending, but just play smarter, maybe?

Funny how the burden of skill is never on the player with the obviously kittened up gimmick ability that everyone hates.

Sweetbread.2679:

AcidicVision.5498:

The options are there. I don’t want to sound condescending, but just play smarter, maybe?

Funny how the burden of skill is never on the player with the obviously kittened up gimmick ability that everyone hates.

That’s subjective. Thieves have a high skill cap for players that want to be good with them and effective in tPvP. Stealth harassment thieves are not good on a team. They are actually a detriment because you cant cap while stealthed.

The revealed buff means thieves can’t dance in and out of stealth like they used to and attacking out of stealth means we lose our best defensive option for four seconds, which can be an eternity in pvp.

Quickness/pistol whip thieves have nice burst DPS but then are useless for an entire minute while Haste cools down.

And initiative isn’t as spammable as people like to think. Gap closing heart seekers or a blocked/evaded death blossom is a huge drain.

A thief has to manage their stealth, manage revealed, manage initiative, manage cool downs, consider what to blow when for initiative defensively so they can still do their damage and survive. That doesn’t even touch steal which is a 35 sec cooldown gap closer that can miss easily and if it doesn’t miss, the items we get from it (besides necros) are very situational.

I would say over-all the class has as low a barrier to entry as a Warrior for things like hotjoin sPvP. But a much higher skill cap for team and solo queues. Just because Warriors are able to make a lot more mistakes and live through them and don’t have all of the direct offensive/defensive trade-off decisions to make on the fly.

tl;dr: There is a huge difference between burden of skill required to just poach kills and get a little easy glory before you are inevitably killed; using stealth to harass or run away and being worthless on a team; and being good enough at the class to contribute, support, and survive to minimize down time.

Not sure if troll or just bad. In any case this thread is pointless

Since you keep up 1v1 and point is yours due to the thief stealthing you’re winning already, can’t see the problem here…

Thieves have no point presence and will never keep up 1v2 vs someone with half brain, if you keep your point and your team isn’t outnumbered you can 1v1 all match…he’s just wasting HIS time..

Or maybe you’re just talking about zergs vs doors…in that case this is the wrong forum, noone gives a kitten bout zvsd here

Forgetful Phil.6370:

Tatsuo.1478:

It was a bit different, I was trying to kill him on mid point. He had like half health. Got him to very low health, then he vanished in stealth, I switched to other foe, then when he came back, he was almost full health. Then I switched back on him, got him to low health again. He started running away from mid point, I chased him down a bit, then he came back on me and we fought 1v1, I got him again on very low health, he used shadow refugee then came back full health again and finished me. I didn’t have any evades or defensive skills left.
And yes he was bunker build, if you can call him that.
The point is every time he got into stealth, he would heal very fast and there was nothing you could do to stop that.

Not sure I’m following your argument.

You’re complaining that a “bunker” thief heals too much, despite the bunker thief loosing a 2v1 at mid and frequently stealthing so it can’t hold a point. Clearly the spec is redundant. But I suppose you’re playing to stomp, not to win.

There are a lot of things about thief that are on the OP side, this isnt one of the them.

OK when did I say he was one and we were 2? The only thing you could have guessed from my post that it was the other way around, because I said I switched to other foe. But actually it was 2v2.

Next. What this has to do about holding a point and fighting against thief 1v1? So what if he didn’t hold the point? That’s not the point of this thread.

Next. This is addressing people saying that if thief is using stealth he is doing it wrong. I’m not saying thief is using stealth for the sake of stealthing. He was using it when he needed it and he used it only defensively – to cleanse conditions, regen initiative and heal himself. So you are saying that it’s better for thief to die and respawn than go in stealth for 3/4 seconds, refresh himself and then strike again with full power?.. I don’t get such logic.

And for some people saying that stealth is not OP, I created thief just out of curiosity and tried it out. And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth. I could do all I wanted and if I get in disadvantage I could just disengage, or wait out in stealth to strike again and kill easily. And I’m not experienced playing with thief at all. So I can only imagine how experienced thieves can use stealth at their advantage.

Tatsuo.1478:

And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth.

Highlighted your problem for you. Rangers are pretty useless in PvP atm and arguably the worst class in the game right now. And you intentionally aren’t playing one of the builds that could give them presence on a team.

When CDI called for class that needed the most changes and updates, Ranger won overwhelmingly and generated over 20 pages of suggested improvements. Mostly because their traits are just all over the place (for example, all condition weapon set buffs, and minor traits in pre line, but condition dmg being in toughness) and issues with pets.

Ofc you are going to feel more powerful switching from a barely functional profession to the most mobile profession in the game. You might as well have said “I dunno, I tried playing a Guardian and it felt much tougher than my ele”. Next you’ll tell us you are playing zerk/bear/bow.

My suggestion is to start practicing with another class until Rangers see some tender love and care. Life will be much easier for you. If you insist on sticking with your bear/bow, I recommend looking into a condi trap build with axe/torch. Awesome for farming glory on waypoint zergs in sPvP and against thieves you can pretty much stand still while they kill themselves.

AcidicVision.5498:

Tatsuo.1478:

And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth.

Highlighted your problem for you. Rangers are pretty useless in PvP atm and arguably the worst class in the game right now. And you intentionally aren’t playing one of the builds that could give them presence on a team.

When CDI called for class that needed the most changes and updates, Ranger won overwhelmingly and generated over 20 pages of suggested improvements. Mostly because their traits are just all over the place (for example, all condition weapon set buffs, and minor traits in pre line, but condition dmg being in toughness) and issues with pets.

Ofc you are going to feel more powerful switching from a barely functional profession to the most mobile profession in the game. You might as well have said “I dunno, I tried playing a Guardian and it felt much tougher than my ele”. Next you’ll tell us you are playing zerk/bear/bow.

My suggestion is to start practicing with another class until Rangers see some tender love and care. Life will be much easier for you. If you insist on sticking with your bear/bow, I recommend looking into a condi trap build with axe/torch. Awesome for farming glory on waypoint zergs in sPvP and against thieves you can pretty much stand still while they kill themselves.

Yeah every class, but thieves and mesmers hate stealth for being a terrible, unfun, cheesey mechanic to fight against that let’s thieves get away with monumental amounts of kittenty play or completely reset a fight at a whim, because of rangers being underpowered. Stop deluding yourself. You picked the class who’s core mechanics are: counterless invisibility, spam, massive solo burst damage, and running away. Literally no part of that combination makes for a good pvp experience. People are right to think the class is a failure of design and it’s not because their class is underwhelming, it’s because thief is just flat out awful to fight against in almost every way, it gives a huge leg up to kittenty players, and is essentially unkillable in the hands of a pro player.

Amir.1570:

Thief takes more skill than Mesmer any time of the day.

Spamming Pistol Whip takes so much skill.

Sweetbread.2679:

Stop deluding yourself. You picked the class who’s core mechanics are: counterless invisibility, spam, massive solo burst damage, and running away. Literally no part of that combination makes for a good pvp experience. People are right to think the class is a failure of design and it’s not because their class is underwhelming, it’s because thief is just flat out awful to fight against in almost every way, it gives a huge leg up to kittenty players, and is essentially unkillable in the hands of a pro player.

Its not counterless. To begin with, thieves still take full damage in stealth, and move slower for it. If you read my first post stealth can be countered with aoe, conditions, stuns, and knockdowns.

The initiative resource does not allow spamming, you only have 12 initiative. Its possible to trait to 15, but that’s a huge waste of points. To put that in perspective, it means Heart-seeker, assuming you use no other initiative, can only be used 4 times and it locks you out of using any other weapon skills. Add to that, it only does max damage if the opponent is under 25% health. A thief “spamming” Heartseeker while you are at 50% HP or more is doing you a favor. Leaping Death Blossom? Three times with low base damage. Its mostly used to apply conditions.

How exactly is using a skill 3-4 times “spamming”? Considering to do that the thief can use nothing else and one of those skills if spammed is useless on high health characters? Can you honestly tell me that while fighting for a CP you don’t use any of your skills 3-4 times in that duration?

That massive burst you are talking about comes with 13k health. 13k health, very specific traits, and long cool downs. It is the definition of glass cannon. Hits hard, breaks easy, and takes forever to reload. If you let that nearly down you and get away, its honestly a ltp issue.

But thank you for your post, it’s a perfect example of knowing absolutely nothing about the class, how it works, its limitations or weaknesses but jumping on board the stealth QQ train because you assume defeat every time you see a thief stealth instead of just dealing with it.

Edit:

Amir.1570:

Amir.1570:

Thief takes more skill than Mesmer any time of the day.

Spamming Pistol Whip takes so much skill.

Pistol Whip costs five initiative. It can’t be spammed. It can be used twice. One more time if traited. It also has a long, very obvious start up, and roots the thief. Making it very very unsafe and punishable on dodge. Honestly people, do you even bother looking at how these things work or just parrot things you hear somewhere else?

Tatsuo.1478:

You picked the class who’s core mechanics are: counterless invisibility, spam, massive solo burst damage, and running away..

As a PvPer who mainly plays a Thief, you’re not looking at it correctly. If you’re fighting a Thief that constantly goes into stealth and runs away, he’s not helping his team in sPvP and you’re definitely winning the match, even if you don’t kill him.

Also, it’s not that hard to CC a Thief – most classes have a couple mechanics that can handle this. It helps prevent the running away issue and the “counterless invisibility”. On occasions where I need to retreat, any good players often have ways to stop this. Especially 1v1.

you might try to stay inside a point and keeping it capped while the thief waste hours getting his hp back.

AcidicVision.5498:

How exactly is using a skill 3-4 times “spamming”? Considering to do that the thief can use nothing else and one of those skills if spammed is useless on high health characters? Can you honestly tell me that while fighting for a CP you don’t use any of your skills 3-4 times in that duration?

That massive burst you are talking about comes with 13k health. 13k health, very specific traits, and long cool downs. It is the definition of glass cannon. Hits hard, breaks easy, and takes forever to reload. If you let that nearly down you and get away, its honestly a ltp issue.

Pistol Whip costs five initiative. It can’t be spammed. It can be used twice. One more time if traited. It also has a long, very obvious start up, and roots the thief. Making it very very unsafe and punishable on dodge. Honestly people, do you even bother looking at how these things work or just parrot things you hear somewhere else?

Yes I consider using a skill 3-4 times in a row (and with init regen being what it is, it’s more than 3-4 times and we all know it), because do you know what happens when you use an ability with every other class? IT GOES ON COOLDOWN.

Yeah my ele is crying you a kittening river for your 13k health. Wow it’s like playing a glass ele, but with more base health and armor, spammy escape mechanics, and the ability to go kittening invisible and run away.

Yeah and pistol whip is the epitome of risk vs. reward. A burst skill with a stun AND an evade baked in that can be precast and then teleported in so there’s no chance to avoid it. Wow really nailed the balance on that one ANet.

Jowiso.8602:

Tatsuo.1478:

You picked the class who’s core mechanics are: counterless invisibility, spam, massive solo burst damage, and running away..

As a PvPer who mainly plays a Thief, you’re not looking at it correctly. If you’re fighting a Thief that constantly goes into stealth and runs away, he’s not helping his team in sPvP and you’re definitely winning the match, even if you don’t kill him.

Also, it’s not that hard to CC a Thief – most classes have a couple mechanics that can handle this. It helps prevent the running away issue and the “counterless invisibility”. On occasions where I need to retreat, any good players often have ways to stop this. Especially 1v1.

I think you missed the part where the whole thread was about how people want a thief to actually lose when they lose a battle and not just get inconvenienced for 10 seconds. Say what you want, but dying and getting sent to respawn compared to running off point for a few seconds to heal and regen init and then immediately coming back is not even remotely the same thing.

And sorry, but if you’re not removing invisibility and you’re just blindly aoeing and hoping that it connects, that’s still counterless invisibility. The invisibility is still there, it is not being countered, the thief is just being a complete kittening moron and wandering into aoe that people are throwing out with an educated guess at best. Yeah a thief is killable, but a good 2/3 of that is just trying to wrangle in an idiotic, poorly planned gimmick ability instead of actually fighting the player. And god forbid the thief actually knows what he’s doing, because you will NEVER finish him 1 on 1. It’s a get out of jail free card plain and simple.

lol you guys are a bunch of kittening jokes. No wonder you’re drawn to the class explicitly designed to appeal to cowards, trolls, and kittenty players.

Thieves don’t need stealth to get away. Look at S/P:

Sword 2, port to you w/ immobilize
Sword 3: 6k damage
Sword 2 Port
Shadow step and suddenly they are 2000 range away

Dee Jay.2460:

Crowd Control, not damage is the Thief’s greatest enemy.

I understand their frequent stealths and teleports can be really irritating, especially if you don’t know them in detail, but Thieves do die, and die quite easily.

It’s just that conventional damage isn’t the best way to kill them.

CC and conditions will melts a Thief any time of the day. That’s why Engineers counter Thieves quite hard.

There’s no way to CC them. They just jump through CCs, and if you freeze them they just keep spamming one fast skill, leaving the freezing useless.

Personally I think a thief is boring. I played it for a week (you know, make one lvl1, pick a decend build and have fun) and I killed all the lights so easily. Heavy armor i failed, but bc I was noob thief.
But i just got bored of targeting lights and killing everyone so I just deleted it. IMO thief it’ss just an easy class. And I laugh so much when I manage to kill a glass canon thief with my staff ele. lol.

If thieves are so good at 1v1, how come in the 1v1 dedicated arenas thieves are not dominating? Think about it.

You are either too bad or not using a 1v1 build. If you’re not using a 1v1 build, why complaining about 1v1 vs thieves?

AcidicVision.5498:

OhMyTaeyeon.5831:

Amir.1570:

Thief takes more skill than Mesmer any time of the day.

Spamming Pistol Whip takes so much skill.

Pistol Whip costs five initiative. It can’t be spammed. It can be used twice. One more time if traited. It also has a long, very obvious start up, and roots the thief. Making it very very unsafe and punishable on dodge. Honestly people, do you even bother looking at how these things work or just parrot things you hear somewhere else?

It was an obvious sarcastic comment…I was more ridiculing the idea that PW thief takes more skill to play than a Shatter Mesmer.

AcidicVision.5498:

Tatsuo.1478:

And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth.

Highlighted your problem for you. Rangers are pretty useless in PvP atm and arguably the worst class in the game right now. And you intentionally aren’t playing one of the builds that could give them presence on a team.

When CDI called for class that needed the most changes and updates, Ranger won overwhelmingly and generated over 20 pages of suggested improvements. Mostly because their traits are just all over the place (for example, all condition weapon set buffs, and minor traits in pre line, but condition dmg being in toughness) and issues with pets.

Ofc you are going to feel more powerful switching from a barely functional profession to the most mobile profession in the game. You might as well have said “I dunno, I tried playing a Guardian and it felt much tougher than my ele”. Next you’ll tell us you are playing zerk/bear/bow.

My suggestion is to start practicing with another class until Rangers see some tender love and care. Life will be much easier for you. If you insist on sticking with your bear/bow, I recommend looking into a condi trap build with axe/torch. Awesome for farming glory on waypoint zergs in sPvP and against thieves you can pretty much stand still while they kill themselves.

What are you talking about? Why some people reaction is that you are some noob if they hear you play ranger? I’m not running bear/bow.. I ran almost any build that can be viable at some point for ranger (and yes I ran spirit build too, but just got bored of that build), so I know a bit about that class . Even though rangers lack many things, but it does not mean you can’t squeeze maximum there is to that class.

And no, thats not the problem why it is hard to play against thief 1v1 (against good ones), it would be the same with other classes. Maybe thief would have harder time, but he could escape as easily if he wants to.

Sweetbread.2679:

Yes I consider using a skill 3-4 times in a row (and with init regen being what it is, it’s more than 3-4 times and we all know it), because do you know what happens when you use an ability with every other class? IT GOES ON COOLDOWN.

Lets look at the other side of that. As a thief when you use the 3 skill, your 5 skill effectively goes on cool down. If you use your 3 skill again, then your four skill goes on cool down. If you use your 3 skill one final time, your 3 skill and 2 skill go on cool down.

Once again, Thieves are not spammy. A misunderstanding of non thief players and the initiative mechanic is what is causing that entire misconception. Every time a thief uses a skill, one or more things go on CD. Init recharge is no different than being able to trait faster recharge on weapon sets for other classes. But whereas other classes can save their cool downs for appropriate times and maximum effect, thieves have to play further ahead because every skill costs them something.

For a working example, a Guardian can sit on Shield of Absorption as a clutch knockback to get a revive or finish or push off a warrior or thief defensively. That option is available until he uses it, period. As a Thief, if I use infiltrators strike to set up pistol whip, I have now lost access to black powder shot and headshot which are my defensive gtfo skills if the encounter goes wrong. Could you imagine losing Shield of Absorption in exchange for using Zealot’s Defense? Thats how a Thief works.

For the guy a few comments up saying you can’t CC a thief, you absolutely can. They can try to get away, but conditions affect the distance that leaps travel, so a chilled Thief isn’t just heart seeking away. Other options involve a target, so you just jump from being CCd in front of one enemy to being in front of another.They can infiltrator’s arrow 900 units away for half of their initiative (if not dazed, petrified, knocked down or feared); which is absolutely no different than a necro hitting life force and soaking while CCd, using AOE fear to keep you from capitalizing, Engineers triggering Elixer S or any knock back for that matter, or Ele using mistform.

Tatsuo.1478:

OK when did I say he was one and we were 2? The only thing you could have guessed from my post that it was the other way around, because I said I switched to other foe. But actually it was 2v2.

Next. What this has to do about holding a point and fighting against thief 1v1? So what if he didn’t hold the point? That’s not the point of this thread.

Next. This is addressing people saying that if thief is using stealth he is doing it wrong. I’m not saying thief is using stealth for the sake of stealthing. He was using it when he needed it and he used it only defensively – to cleanse conditions, regen initiative and heal himself. So you are saying that it’s better for thief to die and respawn than go in stealth for 3/4 seconds, refresh himself and then strike again with full power?.. I don’t get such logic.

And for some people saying that stealth is not OP, I created thief just out of curiosity and tried it out. And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth. I could do all I wanted and if I get in disadvantage I could just disengage, or wait out in stealth to strike again and kill easily. And I’m not experienced playing with thief at all. So I can only imagine how experienced thieves can use stealth at their advantage.

I said he was two and you were one actually. Irrespective, if they were stealthing that much and taking as much damage as you say, they had minimal impact on the 2v2 fight.

Ok… I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but this game isn’t balanced around 1v1, it’s balanced around 5v5 conquest. The reason why I bring up points is because that’s how Anet tries to balance the theif – high damage and good escape tools, but can’t hold a point. That’s the tradeoff. The game isn’t balanced 1v1, so this thread won’t give you any answer you’ll be happy with

thieves like to refer to themselves high risk, high reward. reward is there all right, but i dont see much of a risk. especially in relative terms. when is thieve risking more then any other (glass-to-glass) class?

Forgetful Phil.6370:

Tatsuo.1478:

OK when did I say he was one and we were 2? The only thing you could have guessed from my post that it was the other way around, because I said I switched to other foe. But actually it was 2v2.

Next. What this has to do about holding a point and fighting against thief 1v1? So what if he didn’t hold the point? That’s not the point of this thread.

Next. This is addressing people saying that if thief is using stealth he is doing it wrong. I’m not saying thief is using stealth for the sake of stealthing. He was using it when he needed it and he used it only defensively – to cleanse conditions, regen initiative and heal himself. So you are saying that it’s better for thief to die and respawn than go in stealth for 3/4 seconds, refresh himself and then strike again with full power?.. I don’t get such logic.

And for some people saying that stealth is not OP, I created thief just out of curiosity and tried it out. And was not surprised how powerful thief felt (at least compared with ranger as that is the profession I’m playing – not the spirit ranger though), and especially stealth. I could do all I wanted and if I get in disadvantage I could just disengage, or wait out in stealth to strike again and kill easily. And I’m not experienced playing with thief at all. So I can only imagine how experienced thieves can use stealth at their advantage.

I said he was two and you were one actually. Irrespective, if they were stealthing that much and taking as much damage as you say, they had minimal impact on the 2v2 fight.

Ok… I don’t know how long you’ve been around, but this game isn’t balanced around 1v1, it’s balanced around 5v5 conquest. The reason why I bring up points is because that’s how Anet tries to balance the theif – high damage and good escape tools, but can’t hold a point. That’s the tradeoff. The game isn’t balanced 1v1, so this thread won’t give you any answer you’ll be happy with

Well I’m around since release. I know Anet claim that it is balanced around 5v5 conquest. But actually it is not balanced at all. Give it 5v5, or 1v1. I couldn’t call that balance.
Well I heard some answers. And yours if understand right is that if if you see thief even if it is on point and you are 1v1, just don’t bother right, because it is not balanced this way?

gesho.9468:

thieves like to refer to themselves high risk, high reward. reward is there all right, but i dont see much of a risk. especially in relative terms. when is thieve risking more then any other (glass-to-glass) class?

I would agree. I really don’t see where is the risk for the thief? I would say thief as high damage class has the least risks from all other classes.

^^is this real?

I can make million mistakes on my hambow war and still stay alive and hold point. If i make mistake on a thief, i have to blow major CDs, if i make mistake again i am probably dead.

AcidicVision.5498:

Once again, Thieves are not spammy. A misunderstanding of non thief players and the initiative mechanic is what is causing that entire misconception. Every time a thief uses a skill, one or more things go on CD. Init recharge is no different than being able to trait faster recharge on weapon sets for other classes. But whereas other classes can save their cool downs for appropriate times and maximum effect, thieves have to play further ahead because every skill costs them something.

For a working example, a Guardian can sit on Shield of Absorption as a clutch knockback to get a revive or finish or push off a warrior or thief defensively. That option is available until he uses it, period. As a Thief, if I use infiltrators strike to set up pistol whip, I have now lost access to black powder shot and headshot which are my defensive gtfo skills if the encounter goes wrong. Could you imagine losing Shield of Absorption in exchange for using Zealot’s Defense? Thats how a Thief works.

Yeah except you didn’t lose access to black powder or headshot at all. You only spent 8 init for the infiltrator’s strike > pistol whip combo, one initiative’s already regened during it so even with no traits for initiative you still have enough for black powder or headshot, not that you would even need them with infiltrator’s return available. And that’s baseline, with no traits or skills boosting intiative gain. And you know what it would actually be kind of balanced were it not for the fact that you can just blow all of your initiative, hide in stealth or disengage while it regens and take all the risk out of the downtime, possibly throw out a stealth attack towards the end that requires no initiative for god knows what reason, and then do it all over again. Oh and then if you get chilled it doesn’t put your attacks on cooldown or even slow your initiative regen, thieves get a double standard on that because why the kitten not, might as well keep the fail balancing consistent.

Cynz.9437:

^^is this real?

I can make million mistakes on my hambow war and still stay alive and hold point. If i make mistake on a thief, i have to blow major CDs, if i make mistake again i am probably dead.

Sorry, forgot about warriors. Those are good example too. But I was talking about glassy builds. With warrior you just take healing signet and everything offensive, but still I wouldn’t call that glassy build