Guild Wars 2

Hi, I just wanna make this post to show how bad the Matchmaking in PvP and how big the gaps between players are right now. Some of you may remember this from my most recent stream but I just want to highlight this game right here, one of the prime example of why almost none of the players want to touch guild wars 2 PvP this season. ANet need to get a proper tutorial as well as give top tier players incentive to actually stream and teach the lesser skilled player to improve. Because at this rate, more and more players will leave.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130583102

This is the clip of my 1v3. Where I straight up 1v3 a thief mes and warrior for a minute, downed 2 and killed one before I actually died. Meanwhile my team barely won two nodes in that amount of time, just to lose it the moment I died. Throughout? this whole game, I was permanently 1v2 and 1v3 while my team doing God knows what and I barely carried my team to win by 10 points. It is honestly baffling.

Below is the full clip of the game for you guys to judge. Please keep in mind my DH is not my main class, this was my first game on DH in like a week.

“Carry Isarel” http://www.twitch.tv/xkratosz/v/130583399?sr=a&t=0s

P.S: I could have live through that 1v3 there and maybe even come out alive, but because DH is not my main, so I didn’t do a good job of keeping CDs of f2 and f3. I could have won that 1v3 and come out on top. So it is technically my faults for not going 10000% to carry them. I was just too triggered at the time.

Kratos is the #1 player in the game. If he quits, that will kill PvP for Guild Wars 2.

Yeah match quality is bad

But it was a close and even game kappa

This was the fourth placement match on an alt account. Because of the soft mmr reset, plus you lost 2 of your first 3 placement matches, the people you will get will likely be dramatically below your level since your account has super high volatility, and a poor starting record. There is a good argument to be made to get rid of the soft reset at the start of the season since it is safe to say established accounts won’t get dramatically better or worse over the off season, and even if they do the system should re-rank them appropriately eventually. However this game does not make a case for poor match making. The system hasn’t even come close to figuring out your rating after 3 placement games.

ArthurDent.9538:

This was the fourth placement match on an alt account. Because of the soft mmr reset, plus you lost 2 of your first 3 placement matches, the people you will get will likely be dramatically below your level since your account has super high volatility, and a poor starting record. There is a good argument to be made to get rid of the soft reset at the start of the season since it is safe to say established accounts won’t get dramatically better or worse over the off season, and even if they do the system should re-rank them appropriately eventually. However this game does not make a case for poor match making. The system hasn’t even come close to figuring out your rating after 3 placement games.

While what you said has merits. However, put someone else instead of me in this game. For example, someone of equal skill to the teammates I got; they will 100% get stomp. They would be lucky if they even manage to get 100 pts Without me or anyone of similar skill on their team to hard carry. And that’s the point I want to make, why is a team consist of 4 players that basically clueless pitch against team of 5 players who kinda know how to play? Why didn’t they get teach about basic stuff like “if your teammates is 1v3ing at home maybe you should come help peel for him or make it an even 3v3 instead of going to far after afking mid for 30s pushing into a 2v2 your other teammates already winning” I didn’t Express that really well but the fact does not change that if the player in that game was your average level 40 PvP player then that team will 100% get 500-100 or something like that. Which should never happen if matchmaking is working.

A player should never, ever have to 1v2 and 1v3 for the full duration of the match to be able to barely won by 10 points. That is not good game, that’s just whacked

Natto.5819:

Kratos is the #1 player in the game. If he quits, that will kill PvP for Guild Wars 2.

Haha nah there are many people better than me. I can play all classes at above average level with a couple classes at high level, but there are many players better than me. Plus, I still have a sliver of faith left for future tourney and some improvement

I know the feeling of carrying bad teams so hard and still barely winning (or even losing). At the weekend, I was in a game when I won a 1v2 AND me and my duo partner won a 2v3 and we still managed to lose the game 500-250. It was a totally impossible game. Nobody could have carried that. However, you all need to acccept that this will happen from time to time and, at least from my experience, they are the exception rather than the rule. Yes, they do happen more often than they did in season 5, but I can confidently say that no more than 10% of games are totally uncarriable.

I understand it can be annoying to be by far the best player on the team and still losing or just barely getting wins, but the majority of games this season (by majority I mean 65% or so, I am not trying to say bad games rarely happen) for me are usually good because in EU there is usually at least one other top-ranked duo that I will keep getting matched against, which always makes fun games.

I feel it too. MM balancens sides in total MMR but it happens that player MMR is highly diffrent. Had a match where oposing team had one top mesmer and 4 soso players against 3 good and two rookies. The match itself was very close but mesmer hardcarried the other 4 and only lost if two of the good cought him … The rookies were free wins and didn´t rotate while the good ones could easily 2:3 the 4 soso … So basically it seems the MM works well after Evans last changes, but total player selection has huge skill gaps.

xKratos.4758:

ArthurDent.9538:

This was the fourth placement match on an alt account. Because of the soft mmr reset, plus you lost 2 of your first 3 placement matches, the people you will get will likely be dramatically below your level since your account has super high volatility, and a poor starting record. There is a good argument to be made to get rid of the soft reset at the start of the season since it is safe to say established accounts won’t get dramatically better or worse over the off season, and even if they do the system should re-rank them appropriately eventually. However this game does not make a case for poor match making. The system hasn’t even come close to figuring out your rating after 3 placement games.

While what you said has merits. However, put someone else instead of me in this game. For example, someone of equal skill to the teammates I got; they will 100% get stomp. They would be lucky if they even manage to get 100 pts Without me or anyone of similar skill on their team to hard carry. And that’s the point I want to make, why is a team consist of 4 players that basically clueless pitch against team of 5 players who kinda know how to play? Why didn’t they get teach about basic stuff like “if your teammates is 1v3ing at home maybe you should come help peel for him or make it an even 3v3 instead of going to far after afking mid for 30s pushing into a 2v2 your other teammates already winning” I didn’t Express that really well but the fact does not change that if the player in that game was your average level 40 PvP player then that team will 100% get 500-100 or something like that. Which should never happen if matchmaking is working.

A player should never, ever have to 1v2 and 1v3 for the full duration of the match to be able to barely won by 10 points. That is not good game, that’s just whacked

In order to get people ranked properly, you have to make teams up of similar players. this match was destined to be a stomp for the other team, but your rating was so far off where it should be you could carry them. Both you and your teammates should have gotten a larger than normal reward, and the other team would be punished harder than normal. Play enough matches and someone of your level will move on faster than someone than someone than others.

Unfortunately, this season placements seem to be forced low so people have to climb the ladder, so imbalanced matches will happen.

xKratos.4758:

ANet need to get a proper tutorial as well as give top tier players incentive to actually stream and teach the lesser skilled player to improve. Because at this rate, more and more players will .

To me that is on the community. if they want a player base to compete against they need to develop new players.

What NEEDS to happen is matchmaking limits.

Matchmaking should only make matches where the player with the highest MMR in the match is only at maximum 150-200 MMR away from the player with the lowest MMR in the game.

By doing this it would;

1) Create actually fair and fun matches.
2) Make the matches worth playing, and not +1/-50 matches.
3) Reduce and/or completely remove “High MMR” players farming low MMR players at dead hours.

The downside to this of course is that when there aren’t enough people queuing in that MMR range, some players may simply never get a match. Even for hours. However, I believe this would be a acceptable simply for the health of the game.

That or you remove the downstate mechanic and actually allow players to 1vX in PvP with some sort of reliability.

I am sorry that you got a bad team but in my eyes this is the perfect example that the system works.

You are way better than your team but the enemy team is not good enough to easily win because of that. So in the end you had a match that you won but the enemy had a close match that they might have won if they would play a little better.

Do you think games would be better if you would just stomp people? How do you think the enemy feels if they loose 500 to 20 or smth like that, do you think they like unbalanced PvP? The matchmaking gave you a bad team to even the odds out and it worked.

I see how this is annoying to good pvp players. But shouldn’t they first do something against the 4v5 matches? Meaning the matches where one team looses a player right at the beginning (either by afk, disconnect or rage quit).

Or does this stuff not happen in the higher tiers of pvp?

I lost most of my matches this season (I didn’t play much yet) just because of a few horrible teammates. I am not a pro or anything (but I feel like Im pretty decent), but I can feel the gap between skill of players in the same match easily. As many others stated before: PvP became more of a lottery where you have to hope you have the better team. I don’t expect my team mates to be pro or something, but I think it is my right at my skill level to expect that thieves don’t play d/d condi and only fullcap, and other such nonsense.

ArthurDent.9538:

TBecause of the soft mmr reset…

I consider the soft reset pretty much an admission on the part of the devs that the “rank” ratings in this game are meaningless. If our MMR at the end of last season actually reflected our skill, then why do we need new placement matches? The game would already now how good we are.

Whether your MMR goes up or down over the season may reflect how good you are, but the all the initial assignment measures is how lucky you got with your team assignments during the placement matches.

While I get your general frustration, I have to say, that placement matches are always unbalanced. Even when speaking of a soft-reset, the matchmaking system needs some sort of data to rank you correctly. Seeing as this was your 4th match on an alt-account, the amount of data the system had, to determine your rating, obviously is incredibly low.

Now, I don’t know if pvp-level/games played actually have any impact on your hidden MMR, but in case they don’t: the system had to determine your rating according to the data it received from just 3 matches (where you lost 2). I would be very interested to see, what MMR your teammates had.

Don’t queue during non primetime? Most of my matches are like this but I don’t play the same level as you. Play at night and you’ll barely win matches like this or lose alot.

Anyone else notice the Rev on his team was using Hammer LOL

The fella has a solid point here. Those 4 players on his team were bad beyond belief, and he was lucky the team he was facing was only marginally better which allowed him to win.

I mean as soon as I saw the hammer rev I knew how bad it was for him.

Forestgreen.7981:

Don’t queue during non primetime? Most of my matches are like this but I don’t play the same level as you. Play at night and you’ll barely win matches like this or lose alot.

FOR THE GREEEEEN

PvP needs a proper tutorial. We can’t expect players to learn the game in hotjoin or asking other players.

Not the crappy tutorial we used to have where only capture, revive and finish were taught.

I mean an actual comprehensive tutorial that starts with basic mechanics, then advanced tactics, map peculiarities, profession peculiarities, vs AI practice, …

Then also a series of practice challenges to teach players how to deal with different mechanics like condition spam, CC spam, boon spam, bunker enemies, slippery enemies, chasing enemies, getting focused by the enemy team, enemies that run around decapping, each map quirk, etc. Completing each challenge for the first time with each profession would give a few potions of PvP reward track, to ensure players are lured into the training.

Something like a mix between the Zaishen Masters in the Isle of the Nameless, Instructor Ng’s quests in Shing Jea Monastery and the PvP training arenas in GW1.

The Zaishen must go back to their job, or we’ll only get clueless people that act in a way no different than someone losing on purpose.

We could also use an instanced training area that can produce training golems and profession NPCs with options like those for the golems in Mistlock Observatory: run stand still, run around, attack, etc. There’s a perfect spot to put that in the northeast corner of the Heart of the Mists, where underwater combat used to be.

ArthurDent.9538:

This was the fourth placement match on an alt account. Because of the soft mmr reset, plus you lost 2 of your first 3 placement matches, the people you will get will likely be dramatically below your level since your account has super high volatility, and a poor starting record.

So basically fake news to get more twitch views.

MithranArkanere.8957:

PvP needs a proper tutorial. We can’t expect players to learn the game in hotjoin or asking other players.

The issue is that the meta build nowadays are good substitutes for tutorial.
Back in time, builds were either sustain with few damage, either big damage with few sustain, so you had to be careful, considering threats, knowing when to escape a lost fight,.. A thief with no daggers against 5 zerkers will understand how to play capture points.

Todays, builds are too OP in every domain, and engaging in a fight spamming buffs/conditions at same ( you get the point) isn’t really helpful to me.

xKratos.4758:

Hi, I just wanna make this post to show how bad the Matchmaking in PvP and how big the gaps between players are right now. Some of you may remember this from my most recent stream but I just want to highlight this game right here, one of the prime example of why almost none of the players want to touch guild wars 2 PvP this season. ANet need to get a proper tutorial as well as give top tier players incentive to actually stream and teach the lesser skilled player to improve. Because at this rate, more and more players will leave.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130583102

This is the clip of my 1v3. Where I straight up 1v3 a thief mes and warrior for a minute, downed 2 and killed one before I actually died. Meanwhile my team barely won two nodes in that amount of time, just to lose it the moment I died. Throughout? this whole game, I was permanently 1v2 and 1v3 while my team doing God knows what and I barely carried my team to win by 10 points. It is honestly baffling.

Below is the full clip of the game for you guys to judge. Please keep in mind my DH is not my main class, this was my first game on DH in like a week.

“Carry Isarel” http://www.twitch.tv/xkratosz/v/130583399?sr=a&t=0s

P.S: I could have live through that 1v3 there and maybe even come out alive, but because DH is not my main, so I didn’t do a good job of keeping CDs of f2 and f3. I could have won that 1v3 and come out on top. So it is technically my faults for not going 10000% to carry them. I was just too triggered at the time.

Well, one reason you didn’t harm the enemy team too much is that even if you were 1vX-ing them you were actually fighting on their node without decaping. The enemy team just managed to rotate better than your team, I guess… And they also probably had someone who was able to 1v3 your team mates in their team while you were 1v3-ing their team. Anyways the match wasn’t so dramatic it was just probably luck, or just a bit of better rotation awareness on your enemy side. As for the top stats you have, what can i say, there are better classes to farm top stats with at low level gameplay, then others. Try getting all those top stats on something like thief or other profession builds that doesn’t shine at almost every combat and sustain aspect of the game.

Anyways, I noticed something strange happening in your second video (the full match) at around 10:06, you are sitting on their node and it’s not decaping… It might be a glitch, but just noticed that.

Last season I had matches where I won a couple 1v2s and even a 1v3 and still lost somehow. I know there are players who throw matches for gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvsLM6TNicM&t=268sThis could be the cause sometimes but other times I think it has to be Anet’s horrible matchmaking system. I heard that they try to force a 50/50 win loss and if you are above that by a lot, they will match you up with carrys. I believe that at least up to last season, we’ll see about this season.

Last season I could stay at 80 percent wins or higher by queueing whenever i got decay or once per day at most. If I tried to queue more than that, I would get teams like what I just described.

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

A good player would have escaped when they realized they no longer had the cool downs to keep forcing the over commit.

Whatever helps out with the old ego though….

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

It doesn’t sound like humble brag to me tbh. I view it as one of the few top players who still care enough about the game to even post on this forum in hope of getting Anet to communicate and fix the issues. Despite what people said about kratos, you cannot deny his contribution to the community after storm, helseth and many others left. I would even go as far as saying he’s one of the few people keeping GW2 PvP alive right now along with rarnark and a couple others.

Also, while what he said just basically what many others have been saying ever since season 6 started; but the message is more respectable and worth taking notes compare to some random forum warriors who just claimed “I 1v2’d and 1v3’d but I still lose, matchmaking is borken kitten y kitten ” or “I deserve legend/Plat cuz I think I am the chosen one”. Exaggerated a little bit but you get my point. Kratos stated his complains and back it up with hard evidences unlike 99% of posts on here with just screenshots and a simple argument such as “I got the most top stats so i deserve MMR”. You can see the difference in attention when a top player make a complain post vs when “Mr. Random Forum Warrior” makes one. This post gathered ~10k views in just a day while other posts of similar nature will most likely get ignore. This is similar to when toker or chaithh made posts in the past about the state of the game

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

And yet, missing a flaw of logic.

“zomg, I go 1v3 and have this really epic battle while my team goes and sucks on 2 nodes”

The missing part:
There could have been someone on the enemy team who rolled his allies “1v3” just the same.

But instead, he blames his team, which actually sounds fairly typical.

Rauderi.8706:

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

And yet, missing a flaw of logic.

“zomg, I go 1v3 and have this really epic battle while my team goes and sucks on 2 nodes”

The missing part:
There could have been someone on the enemy team who rolled his allies “1v3” just the same.

But instead, he blames his team, which actually sounds fairly typical.

And here comes the problem with this.
Let’s assume 2 teams with following setup (which is very likely actually):
A: 1900, 1600, 1600, 1600, 1600
B: 1900, 1600, 1600, 1600, 1600

On average both teams have 1660 MMR. Now regardless how those 1900 players do, how hard they carry they will heavily get punished for such matches anyway because
1. they will have to hardcarry due to having low ranked players on team
2. they will gain rating based on their personal MMR vs avg. MMR from enemy team which would result in 5 rating gain or 25 rating loss respectively.

Regardless how you look at it, such situation is just bad.

It gets even worse, when you have say 1900 player teamed with 1600s, and enemy team had 1 low ranked and other bit higher ranked, e.g. 1700, 1700, 1700, 1700, 1500. Which is once again very very likely (if not pretty much 100% the case). You know what 1900 would have to pull to win such match? While still getting literary nothing from winning such matches if he actually manages to do so?

Rauderi.8706:

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

And yet, missing a flaw of logic.

“zomg, I go 1v3 and have this really epic battle while my team goes and sucks on 2 nodes”

The missing part:
There could have been someone on the enemy team who rolled his allies “1v3” just the same.

But instead, he blames his team, which actually sounds fairly typical.

Your comment shown that you didn’t even watch the full vod before making that statement. There were no point in the game where any of the guy on the enemy team was 1v3ing my teammates. Not even 1v2. And I have every rights to make complain about my teammates when I single handedly carried them. They wouldn’t even get 100 pts if their fifth was someone of their skill level instead of me or someone at least equal to my skill level to carry them. Not to sound conceited but that’ just fact. If you watch the full Vod it is not an exaggeration when I said I am permanently 1v2

Rauderi.8706:

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

And yet, missing a flaw of logic.

“zomg, I go 1v3 and have this really epic battle while my team goes and sucks on 2 nodes”

The missing part:
There could have been someone on the enemy team who rolled his allies “1v3” just the same.

But instead, he blames his team, which actually sounds fairly typical.

He has every right to blame his team tbh. But it seem you don’t even have the minimum attention span or common sense to watch the full vod before accusing him of just simple being a typical forum warrior. Keep in mind, when top players make forum posts, they’re usually about matter which affect the community as a whole and they are in a way representatives of us, the lower tiers players. As many had stated here, this is not baseless complains, many players are experiencing this daily and if anet really have a working system then no one has to 1v2 almost every game to win +5 MMR and lose -20 for incompetent teammates

Tatsuya.9071:

He has every right to blame his team tbh. But it seem you don’t even have the minimum attention span or common sense to watch the full vod before accusing him of just simple being a typical forum warrior. Keep in mind, when top players make forum posts, they’re usually about matter which affect the community as a whole and they are in a way representatives of us, the lower tiers players. As many had stated here, this is not baseless complains, many players are experiencing this daily and if anet really have a working system then no one has to 1v2 almost every game to win +5 MMR and lose -20 for incompetent teammates

He does have a point however, since the same is happening in both sides. I could be in the opposite team, and complain about my teammates constantly chasing one guy, hopefully we ended up to a close score because we did good on 2v4. If i manage to win 1v2/3 , why wouldn’t opponents win 2v4 ?
You can consider the problem in both ways : one one game, i did play thief and i constantly had 3 players chasing me. Is it me playing smart or me abusing the fact that opponents are low experienced ?

Nethertheless, i totally agree with OP, there are still too many players that do not know how to play on capture point, but it was already the case several months ago..

pfffffffft

that’s the saddest thing i’ve ever seen from a supposed “top” player.

“I think what the OP is saying..”
“The OP has a point”
“People aren’t giving enough credit to the OP”

He has posted on every one of Kratos’s posts in defense…. If that’s his alt then that’s embarrassing for a “top” player.

dear kratos

you have a serious issue, you should probably quit video gaming for a while and maybe talk to somebody about pretending to be other people just to agree with yourself.

(assuming the allegations are true)

Guys, who cares?

sexuallegend.2153:

Guys, who the kitten fuuccking cares? Kratos sucks, as does the entirety of NA pvp. I mean, don’t even get me started on the game itself lacking any sort of competitive relevance XD. Oh man, 5 bucks says this doesn’t get deleted for at least 5 minutes. Counting now lads.

The game itself wasn’t meant to be built from the ground up with Competitive PvP in mind. No MMORPG does; GW2 is no exception.

You’re right though there’s numerous faults with the game’s PvP and then some, but the few of us here still care about it and have stuck around (albeit off and on) since launch. I still sit back and have fun playing the game while pushing; hoping, the devs and players are a little better each season.

So i’m not going to let this ego-driven character off the hook, a player who supposedly represents “top tier pvp”, when he’s been using Alts to defend his very own forum posts… it’s just sad, assuming the accusations are true.

btw, I lost -17 points and looked up the leaderboards. Now That’s funny.