Guild Wars 2

i think 2amber is not new player think new account

is it can report some about abuse?

they lost the game

-They reduce their Pip loss
-They get weaker opponents.
-They reduce their queue.

So yes for them it has almost only bood point.

aggelos r.5387:

they lost the game

This.

That being said, I honestly doubt that its that big of a deal who is at what rank at this point. I haven’t played since leagues dropped, but I’m far better than any of your average amber players. Would it make me a bad guy for playing ranked against them? I suppose you’d say that I’m not intentionally trying to find matches against lower ranked people while they are, but it honestly doesn’t matter. If you win, great. If you lose, look at what you could’ve done to tip the scales in your teams favour should you ever run into more legendary rank players again and make it so that ranks are nothing but pretty little gemstones next to your name.

aggelos r.5387:

they lost the game

So?

SlayerSixx.5763:

I haven’t played since leagues dropped

Stopped reading after this.

OP has a valid point, irrespective of who won the game.

SoPP.7034:

SlayerSixx.5763:

I haven’t played since leagues dropped

Stopped reading after this.

OP has a valid point, irrespective of who won the game.

So what, let them wait 30 minutes in averange for a match?

Even in CS:GO, which has much much more players in ranked matches, global elite players (max rank) team up with less ranked friends, so they don’t have to wait for eternity in que.

Nothing wrong here, move along.

SoPP.7034:

SlayerSixx.5763:

I haven’t played since leagues dropped

Stopped reading after this.

OP has a valid point, irrespective of who won the game.

So you believe that ranks will make or break the match? You do understand that there are unranked people running around in WvWvW right now who would probably wipe the floor with these meta hugging farmers, right? Hell, you wouldn’t need to go into WvWvW. Some duel server regulars would probably be able to do the same. Ranks mean nothing. If you believe that, then you’ll forever be stuck crying that you were beaten by someone with a prettier gem next to their name.

Is it match manipulation? Sure. But it isn’t honestly that big of a deal. People spend too much time crying over rank as if they have no chance to win at all.

SoPP.7034:

aggelos r.5387:

they lost the game

So?

they gain nothing exept less q time probably

Dagins.5163:

Nothing wrong here, move along.

GG.

Probably why the games in the state its in, ‘nothings wrong’.

Dagins.5163:

So what, let them wait 30 minutes in averange for a match?

Yes. Cuz, you know, its called matchmaking.

queing with ambers is not wrong as long those ambers are not fake accouts of good players.

@SoPP.7034
It has nothing in common with class balance issue, that is awful right now.

@Rednik.3809
So you are matched, against two very good players, one good player and two noobs, that pull them down like an anchor. Unless these noobs are smurfs, but that’s again a separate issue for another topic.

Dagins.5163:

Unless these noobs are smurfs

Which is getting back to the OP.

‘Nothing wrong here, move along’.

GG genius.

I support smurfs tbh, and anet should too. I mean, you kinda need HoT for PvP so smurfs have to buy multiple accounts.

you can’t stop smurfs, so why waste your time hating on them. you will lose a lot. get over it or play in a premade. giving up control over your team members and team comp is not a great idea for 5v5 conquest, and often ends up with shallow frustrating games. limited player objective based complex RPG games are not that suited for solo queue. mobas only work as you have hardly any rotations, and splits are obvious.

It’s funny you claim that when both those Amber players have more achievement points than most hardcore pvp’ers and several fully ascended characters to boot. I wouldn’t make posts in ignorance.

choovanski.5462:

mobas only work as you have hardly any rotations, and splits are obvious.

I have a feeling you don’t play enough moba to comment on that. The only obvious splits in moba is that there will be least 1 hero/champion across 2/3 lanes. The splits could be 1/1/1, 2/1/2, 3/1/1, 2/2/1 etc. Rotations in moba are also easier than GW2, just a teleport scroll and you’re on the other side of the map.

@SoPP.7034
Banning smurfs would create more problems, what would be even worse. Pretty much nothing can be done here, so…

You guys realize that while they lower their queue time they make the wait time of other legendary and diamond teams that are not smurfing even higher?

Also no if they are smurfs this is wrong.

1: The guys who won this match deserved 2-3 pips only got 1.
2: Trying to find lower mmr teams than the sytem would normaly provide is cheating
3: Trying to lower your queue time by manipulating the system makes the system even worst, by kitten if data feedback and/or making other people wait even longer.
4: This makes the league badges more and more easy to obtain allowing them to duel weakers teams makes diamond and legendary badges trivial, and this is detrimental to the system.

choovanski.5462:

limited player objective based complex RPG games are not that suited for solo queue. mobas only work as you have hardly any rotations, and splits are obvious.

Lmao.

Wonder why people queue with low division players? Dual diamond queue on EU

I can’t blame them at all. kitten. 3 minute queues kitten me off. Like I want to wait 3 minutes for this hilarious excuse for “balance”.

Can’t imagine waiting 10, let alone 30. I would uninstall (assuming I play only for PvP).

Kuellet.2710:

i think 2amber is not new player think new account

is it can report some about abuse?

I just want to make it absolutely clear; if you’re a legend right now it is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A QUEUE POP. It will sit you in queue for 2 hours- then have you restart the queue. So basically if you’re halfway decent at this game and got legend too fast you can’t pvp anymore unless you either make a new account and start from amber again, or you get lower division friends.

If you think you belong in legend you should be able to beat them if they have two kitten ambers, am i right?

The answer is simply, and actually quite selfish.. shorter queue times.

These people think they are entitled to short queue times without any consideration for the other side that has to face diamonds as amber…. as if thats in any way fair or right.. but hey queue times

Good luck building the pvp community while kicking the teeth in on those other lower level players.

The short sightedness of us as gamers in these games is astounding at times.

Ive asked many streamers to justify that move and they all say the same things.. queue times and better streams… to hades with those on the other side, they dont matter, well at least until it happens to be them.

There is a too heavy correlation between divisions and time queue. Time queue should be more correlated to MMR.

If I play with Diamonds/Legendary players i know for sure they’re dedicated pvp players who invested a lot of time in pvp and won a lot of games, but not necessarily every diamond/legendary player is better than ruby/sapphire players, speaking about game skill/knowledge. For many reasons players could start the league after or having a different play daily time, so they’re in the lower divisions but can be always really good at the game.

Like Legendary player I tried twice to go in soloqueue and I got twice 1 hour+ queue (queue didn’t pop)

I Left the queue and I did a screenshot, but honestly if you reach now the diamond/legendary division you basically can’t play solo or with other diamond/legendary friends, queue simple doesn’t start.

It’s sad I know, but it’s a system fault, not a players fault.

MarkPhilips.5169:

There is a too heavy correlation between divisions and time queue. Time queue should be more correlated to MMR.

If I play with Diamonds/Legendary players i know for sure they’re dedicated pvp players who invested a lot of time in pvp and won a lot of games, but not necessarily every diamond/legendary player is better than ruby/sapphire players, speaking about game skill/knowledge. For many reasons player could start the league after or having a different play daily time, so they’re in the lower divisions but can be always really good at the game.

Like Legendary player I tried twice to go in soloqueue and I got twice 1 hour+ queue (queue didn’t pop)

I Left the queue and I did a screenshot, but honestly if you reach now the diamond/legendary division you basically can’t play solo or with other diamond/legendary friends, queue simple doesn’t start.

It’s sad I know, but it’s a system fault, not a players fault.

True, but how does that justify beating up on lesser players again? That is very much the players fault for doing these things to get around the system.

I’m sorry you have bad queue times but what did you expect? You get there before everyone else there isnt anyone to group with, simple logic. First one at the party is dancing alone.

The smart move would be to help others get there, not take advantage of it. And no dont even try to tell me thats what they are doing by taking ambers… thats BS and you know it.

Ive talked to many of the more popular streamers and such and not one of them has said anything at all about helping others, its always about the queue.

The system now is forcing players to play with players with similar divisions. Ofc system uses MMR too but it seems has a different weight for the matchmaking and the queue time.

It would be good if divisions = skill but it’s not true. MMR and roster size should be the main parameters. Divisions are an indicator of pvp dedication and progression, it doesn’t really reflect how good you’re in the pvp.

You shouldn’t be penalized because you hit diamonds/legendary division before the other players, I can understand a long queue if there are no players with a similar MMR and roster size around you but divisions in general, should be less correlated to time queue.

I see, 15 Diamond per Hearth of mist instance, one day i managed to get in 10 different items within 5 min. all had this much ppl in it (including Diamond).

Anet must suck badly if they can’t Queue 150 Diamonds against each other. Unless half of them are cheating their way down the MMR ladder.

MarkPhilips.5169:

The system now is forcing players to play with players with similar divisions. Ofc system uses MMR too but it seems has a different weight for the matchmaking and the queue time.

It would be good if divisions = skill but it’s not true. MMR and roster size should be the main parameters. Divisions are an indicator of pvp dedication and progression, it doesn’t really reflect how good you’re in the pvp.

You shouldn’t be penalized because you hit diamonds/legendary division before the other players, I can understand a long queue if there are no players with a similar MMR and roster size around you but divisions in general, should be less correlated to time queue.

The point of any match making system it to create balanced fair matches as much as possible, not shorter queues. If that was the goal there would be no system and just dump all into one giant queue and group them without regard for any statistics.

Is it fair to “punish” those who attained higher ranks faster… no, but its equally not right to punish lesser players by having to face them because they manipulate the system either. It is a 2 way street if you plan to actually build a community.

You got there, how about giving others a fair shot at doing the same? Then you might not have this problem, but im sure that never occurred to many aside from the needs of the now

here another nice screenshot people exploiting their division —->

Floplag.4032:

The point of any match making system it to create balanced fair matches as much as possible, not shorter queues. If that was the goal there would be no system and just dump all into one giant queue and group them without regard for any statistics.

Except that’s not how it works. Queue time is a priority because long queues will kitten off players far more than bad matches. People will usually get over a bad match the moment they are in another one.

A 10 minute game isn’t worth 2 hours in queue.

choovanski.5462:

mobas only work as you have hardly any rotations, and splits are obvious.

Splits are obvious, but they place noted strain on the team being backdoored. The person backdooring usually is in a prime position to single handedly secure the win for his team or even double back while deep warding and picking off the enemy DPSers who usually hang back behind their tanks. Aside from that (speaking about league now), there are a few junglers capable of soloing baron (super version of chieftain+svanirx1000) and taking dragon (the equivalent of just chieftain or svanir) is a laughably easy task that can be done as early kitten into the match and if you’ve been doing your job right as a jungler, you should have secured enough dragon buff stacks for the final buff that, again, grants a ton of damage for your allies.

On that note, a split in gw2 would be just as obvious as well, since you’d see the person capping as soon as the point illustration changes. Also, when splitting, if your team has adequate communication, there’s literally no way for the enemy to sneak around you without stealth since there are very few alternate paths for one to take for flanking and even less if you don’t have a teleport.

To call conquest complex is funny, friend.

Crinn.7864:

Floplag.4032:

The point of any match making system it to create balanced fair matches as much as possible, not shorter queues. If that was the goal there would be no system and just dump all into one giant queue and group them without regard for any statistics.

Except that’s not how it works. Queue time is a priority because long queues will kitten off players far more than bad matches. People will usually get over a bad match the moment they are in another one.

A 10 minute game isn’t worth 2 hours in queue.

This is false for solo queuers. If you face multiple premades in a row then you will tilt knowing that the matches are not remotely fair. This isn’t like league of legends where everyone still knows their roles (adc,support,mid, top, jungle) and the game has some structure to it. (lane phase, teamfight, end game)Team comp and voice comms make a HUGE difference in gw2 and thats’ something matchmaking will never account for.

Long queue times exist for the extremes of any MMR system since those players are the highest skilled according to the game. This means that there are obviously going to be less of them there. The fact this leads to long queue times is because there isn’t enough population to bring those times down. This is problem of Anet’s and they are simply passing it off by allowing this bullkitten premade system to screw over people.

I have now encountered this twice, and I get it; lower ques times are great. But its clearly abusing the system. How hard is it to get an account and lvl it to 20?

This needs to be addressed, if proleague teams are doing this just to get better que times, its also amounting to easy wins; as you can see. Its obviously abuse of the system.

What this also amounts to is, I can’t partner with anyone to make friends. Because now I’m almost guaranteed to que against one of these groups.

Dagins.5163:

@SoPP.7034
Banning smurfs would create more problems, what would be even worse. Pretty much nothing can be done here, so…

Do nothing, say nothing because of reasons. That’s your take home message.

These people should have their accounts deleted. They’ve made this entire system meaningless, and are blatantly exploiting.

The queue times wouldn’t be so bad if balance and bugs weren’t so bad, so more people will play. This is also why you have placement matches at the start of seasons, you got people climbing super fast, playing 20 games a day with people climbing with only 3 games a day.

Then again, cheating is cheating. Lowering queue times is an excuse for easy wins. Yes, waiting an hour sucks but maybe if you SoloQ instead of going with your 5 man premade you’ll get to play more.

OH WAIT, it’s about cheating the wins

Easiest fix: Remove TeamQing.
Longer fix: Have the team MMR match the highest players MMR, instead of adding.

Did I miss the part where ArenaNet said players can’t have multiple accounts?

I agree, remove team queue. Make everyone in ranked queue solo. Lost game or not, they were manipulating matches which ANET has said is cheating and that they will punish.

I don’t honestly believe anet will punish it but that doesn’t stop it from being against the rules.

Oh boo hoo.. the people who love to shout “L2P” now have to wait for a match of players near there own skill level? tragic! Many of those players got to that level by match manipulation viz cheating. Let them wait.

It’s a pretty poor excuse to say “it’s not cheating because if I didn’t do it, I’d be inconvenienced” How far would that fly in any sport?

As long divisions are not based on MMR, they shouldn’t be considered by the match making system at all. The current system is just plain stupid. It does nothing but dividing an already small playerbase even further for no reason, making the game basically unplayable for some players, unless the manipulate the system.
As much i dislike expoiting, i can’t blame those players, because the system is so broken.

@SoPP.7034
If your only intent in this topic is to bash on me, then I suggest you to move to some forum like 4chan and play with your fellow trolls.

@HipposWild.7185 and some others
These guys are not evil, they just want to play the game. They don’t want to abuse anything, just keep playing ranked, and climb up the ladder. Punishing people who don’t want to wait for an hour in a que is silly. On top of that, there are many proofs they are not unbeatable, and can also lose.

The system has flaws, but it’s the best one we can have at the moment. Meanwhile, majority of posters here only want to punish/ban/behead smurfers (or those who simply play with less experiened players), while suggesting nothing how to solve the problem..

@Dagins

Your justifications and excuses don’t change the fact that it’s match manipulation and open cheating.

I should think cheating is OK because otherwise those players would have to wait for matches? You sound like the people who say they shouldn’t have to pay taxes because they are rich.

Make all the excuses you want, cheating is not OK.

Better idea over here, fellas. Why not just make it so that unless a majority of the enemy team is at least on your level (if you’re legendary, the enemy team would need as much or more people of your rank), you won’t get a pip for your win?

This would solve the problem of people bypassing the matchmaker and making life easier for the lower ranks, but then it entirely destroys the experience for the very few in the upper tiers. Hopefully, when people start to experience better games, they’ll have more motivation to continue ranking and, eventually, you’ll have enough people chilling at diamond+ and then there will be no need for this nonsense.

Thoughts?

If the game isnt broken to where these people dont have to wait an hour, they wouldnt be so blatant with manipulation.

The most important question to ask here is – how many pips did OP win and how many pips did the other team lose?

The answer to that should help anyone who is confused whether doing this is right or wrong.

And if they are really ONLY after quick matches, they can always get a free account.

@ Dagins

I suggest that all players queue’ing up for leagues should have to queue solo. Not only would this eliminate this particular form of manipulation it would reduce some of the carrying that goes on.

I suspect more than a few players who believe they are awesome would be disappointed when the team was no longer there to carry them.

@Ithilwen.1529
Cheating is not okay, but the offence committed in this behaviour is marginal. It’s more like parking in a no parking zone near a crowded mall, rather than avoiding paying taxes for whatever reasons.

@SlayerSixx.5763
Then, legendary people will be stuck, unable to progress. Just because they are in minority doesn’t mean we can treat them like second class citizens.

@Ithilwen.1529
But you wouldn’t be able to que with friends, and not allowing to que with friends is not nice. What if there is a guild, full of high ranked people, and they simply want to play with each other, but can’t?

I could suggest to give some form of disadvantage for a team, which contains much higher ranked players. For example, if you fight against full legendary team while being full ruby, you receive free 150 points (numbers need adjustments) at the start of the match. It would be quite easy to implement. Then, legendaries would que almost instantly, while still having some challenge.

Dagins.5163:

@SlayerSixx.5763
Then, legendary people will be stuck, unable to progress. Just because they are in minority doesn’t mean we can treat them like second class citizens.

That’s the problem, though. This is the first time they’ve ever implemented this in the game. You need muuuuch longer than 3 weeks for everything to even out. The legendaries will have to simply wait until the rest of the game catches up so that matchmaking can actually do its job.

Dagins.5163:

SoPP.7034:

SlayerSixx.5763:

I haven’t played since leagues dropped

Stopped reading after this.

OP has a valid point, irrespective of who won the game.

So what, let them wait 30 minutes in averange for a match?

Even in CS:GO, which has much much more players in ranked matches, global elite players (max rank) team up with less ranked friends, so they don’t have to wait for eternity in que.

Nothing wrong here, move along.

so the average players are just food for the fewer higher skill players simply because their wait time? That’s great, make majority of the players have worst experience, great idea to make this game mode more popular.

Dagins.5163:

@Ithilwen.1529
Cheating is not okay, but the offence committed in this behaviour is marginal. It’s more like parking in a no parking zone near a crowded mall, rather than avoiding paying taxes for whatever reasons.

@SlayerSixx.5763
Then, legendary people will be stuck, unable to progress. Just because they are in minority doesn’t mean we can treat them like second class citizens.

@Ithilwen.1529
But you wouldn’t be able to que with friends, and not allowing to que with friends is not nice. What if there is a guild, full of high ranked people, and they simply want to play with each other, but can’t?

---

I could suggest to give some form of disadvantage for a team, which contains much higher ranked players. For example, if you fight against full legendary team while being full ruby, you receive free 150 points (numbers need adjustments) at the start of the match. It would be quite easy to implement. Then, legendaries would que almost instantly, while still having some challenge.

Funny analogy because Id atleast get cited for parking in a no park zone especially if I did it regularly. Probably would be * gasp* punished in some way.

By your logic every MMR system treats people like second class citizens: if we dont let the fewer highly skilled players manipulate queue times then they are now “second class” or if we do let them you have no problem screwing over the players they face who were looking for fair match ups.

I love this arguement “muh friendship” trumps competitive integrity right? If there are premades allowed they need to be retricted or limited in their ability to advance. Noone would care about this at all except for the fact that ….you know they locked the entire reward system behind this so people are going to be frustrated getting matched vs premades.

I think a suggestion that one guy here made is very feseable and much alike a lot we’ve seen on other rpgs.

“if you are teamed with a guy 2 divisions higher or lower than you, there will be no pip awarded for that team”

This could be even something that a people could option as On of Off “Allow my team to face unawarded matches sometimes” — Warning, leaving this option disable will put your team on below the others on the Queue.

This way teams that play for the sport and are ok with having a match without rewards sometimes like 1/3 of their matches will be queued on top of all teams that rather wait and make sure their matches will matter (pip-wise).

So you solve 2 problems
1: Less wait time on queues… now you can play a lot more. (we could even reward those matches that don’t give pips with Achieviments or more advance on pvp Track or special pvp track “Sportive Pvp Track” or even all those 3)

2: Manipulation of the Division Sytem, would be now “part” of the system with different rewards and waiting time for those who rather wait less than have absolute fair matches.