Guild Wars 2

I’m surprised necros seem to be getting a free pass when it comes to balancing. This class is capable of obscene damage. I’ve played against 5 pug teams with 3 necros and they absolutely demolished our team. Able to drain 2/3rds health in secs and and hit 4.5K with life transfer. About to drain life from you even if you are in stealth. Silly sustain with shroud and siphon abilities (taking 2-3 people to take one down), while throwing conditions out left, right and centre. As dangerous when downed as when standing.

I’m not sure what build people are using, but it is well over the top. Either some skill or trait is not WAI or their damage needs to be revised. No class should be that damaging and that tanky at the same time.

Don’t stand in wells and don’t condiburst unless you’re ready to cleanse/avoid whatever they may transfer back. There, now go bag those free kills.

Also, read the patch notes, necros did get nerfed.

I didn’t know that 1.5k damage/second is op.

Necro is the easiest profession to lock down. No block, no invulnerability, no stability, no stealth, no reflect, no escape. No class should experience the frustration of being disabled from 100% to 0% under focus fire. Let’s make a deal.

It sounds like you might have been getting ganged up on a lot, making it seem worse than it actually is. A tank-built necro really isn’t going to be doing that much damage. Necros in general can’t burst outside of double well/lich form. And they certainly won’t do much direct damage (like life transfer) if “throwing conditions out left, right and centre,” unless they’re just transferring condis.

As far builds, probably 7 out of 10 necros you see in pugs will be using the standard power wellmancer build, though some will go minionmancer and be tanky. Very few are running condi now.

I think you need to fight more necros, especially 1v1 to see what exactly is consistently causing you the most trouble. You really shouldn’t be losing two thirds of your health pool in seconds unless you are caught in wells or taking lich form hits.

Also, if your team is zerging a necro, even if it takes awhile (likely then they are tank spec), then they a) won’t put out much damage/team support and b) you WILL kill them because they don’t have the cooldowns or mobility to escape focus fire. When in doubt train the necro because it WILL result in a kill if you don’t stop; they won’t escape like ele/mes/even sometimes warrior could.

Targuil.3741:

Don’t stand in wells and don’t condiburst unless you’re ready to cleanse/avoid whatever they may transfer back. There, now go bag those free kills.

Also, read the patch notes, necros did get nerfed.

I got condi clearing, but makes no difference. Each team I was in had a different composition, and they were steam rolling everyone. As I said no class should have that obscene damage, CC, and sustain rolled in one. There is no other class that boast each of these to such an extreme.

Necro doesn’t either, just because you don’t remotely understand the profession doesn’t mean they are OP.

Bhawb.7408:

Necro doesn’t either, just because you don’t remotely understand the profession doesn’t mean they are OP.

Well I think the devs need to check this out for themselves in-game. Not listen to me or anyone else and see how they are playing out in PvP. It’s clear to me that this class needs balancing, and I can’t say that any other class I’ve fought is as out of whack as a necro at the moment. It’s the only class that if multiple members are present equals auto win.

Warrior rampage was another one, but that got nerfed and rightly so.

Vague, the problem is your giving anecdotal evidence that having multiple necros on a team is auto an auto-win. That might be what happens in your experience but isn’t necessarily true in general. Your credibility on this topic is also hindered because you state things like, “necros have OP damage, cc, and sustain.” These are just factually not true, outside of wells and lich necromancers will do less damage on a cele build, marauder build, and condition build than their direct counterparts. There isn’t anymore cc on most necro builds than a warrior with hammer/greatsword, engi, or a mantra mesmer, and less single target than a thief. Necros sustain did get buffed, but rightly so as it was and still is bad in a lot of places.

This thread does illustrate one of the issues with necros though. Namely that they don’t have active defense and all their sustain comes from straight up hp regen. It is probably too strong against weak and even middle tier players, but underpowered against the best. IT would be nice if they increased the regen rate of DS, but made the pool much smaller.

zapv.8051:

Vague, the problem is your giving anecdotal evidence that having multiple necros on a team is auto an auto-win. That might be what happens in your experience but isn’t necessarily true in general. Your credibility on this topic is also hindered because you state things like, “necros have OP damage, cc, and sustain.” These are just factually not true, outside of wells and lich necromancers will do less damage on a cele build, marauder build, and condition build than their direct counterparts. There isn’t anymore cc on most necro builds than a warrior with hammer/greatsword, engi, or a mantra mesmer, and less single target than a thief. Necros sustain did get buffed, but rightly so as it was and still is bad in a lot of places.

This thread does illustrate one of the issues with necros though. Namely that they don’t have active defense and all their sustain comes from straight up hp regen. It is probably too strong against weak and even middle tier players, but underpowered against the best. IT would be nice if they increased the regen rate of DS, but made the pool much smaller.

Well I did say I would rather the devs investigate necros in-game rather than taking my word for it, or other people just defending Necro because they are onto a good thing. So maybe you should try reading comprehension before posting. The devs have the ability to watch live gameplay and likely have access to more detailed combat logs than we do. If they think everything is working as intended then fair enough, but I don’t think that is the case. Silly levels of tanking and burst damage is obviously out of balance.

Vague Memory.2817:

zapv.8051:

Vague, the problem is your giving anecdotal evidence that having multiple necros on a team is auto an auto-win. That might be what happens in your experience but isn’t necessarily true in general. Your credibility on this topic is also hindered because you state things like, “necros have OP damage, cc, and sustain.” These are just factually not true, outside of wells and lich necromancers will do less damage on a cele build, marauder build, and condition build than their direct counterparts. There isn’t anymore cc on most necro builds than a warrior with hammer/greatsword, engi, or a mantra mesmer, and less single target than a thief. Necros sustain did get buffed, but rightly so as it was and still is bad in a lot of places.

This thread does illustrate one of the issues with necros though. Namely that they don’t have active defense and all their sustain comes from straight up hp regen. It is probably too strong against weak and even middle tier players, but underpowered against the best. IT would be nice if they increased the regen rate of DS, but made the pool much smaller.

Well I did say I would rather the devs investigate necros in-game rather than taking my word for it, or other people just defending Necro because they are onto a good thing. So maybe you should try reading comprehension before posting. The devs have the ability to watch live gameplay and likely have access to more detailed combat logs than we do. If they think everything is working as intended then fair enough, but I don’t think that is the case. Silly levels of tanking and burst damage is obviously out of balance.

Ok first, there was no need to be rude to him at all, he was replying to you in a civil manner.

Second, you’re just asking to be trolled with the way you’re going about this, you’re adamant that necro’s are a problem and need nerfing, but i can guarantee you that the rest of the community will very heavily disagree with you.

Are necro’s doing a lot of damage? Yes. Is it avoidable/counterable? Very much so, yes.

I think this is just a result of you being new to the game and not understanding the mechanics fully, Necromancers are an insanely easy class to tackle on every single class in-game, the only thing Necromancers have going for them at the moment is the hotjoin stomp build which is basically a zerker necro.

Why don’t you ask for advice on how to kill Necros instead of crying OP.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Vague Memory.2817:

zapv.8051:

Vague, the problem is your giving anecdotal evidence that having multiple necros on a team is auto an auto-win. That might be what happens in your experience but isn’t necessarily true in general. Your credibility on this topic is also hindered because you state things like, “necros have OP damage, cc, and sustain.” These are just factually not true, outside of wells and lich necromancers will do less damage on a cele build, marauder build, and condition build than their direct counterparts. There isn’t anymore cc on most necro builds than a warrior with hammer/greatsword, engi, or a mantra mesmer, and less single target than a thief. Necros sustain did get buffed, but rightly so as it was and still is bad in a lot of places.

This thread does illustrate one of the issues with necros though. Namely that they don’t have active defense and all their sustain comes from straight up hp regen. It is probably too strong against weak and even middle tier players, but underpowered against the best. IT would be nice if they increased the regen rate of DS, but made the pool much smaller.

Well I did say I would rather the devs investigate necros in-game rather than taking my word for it, or other people just defending Necro because they are onto a good thing. So maybe you should try reading comprehension before posting. The devs have the ability to watch live gameplay and likely have access to more detailed combat logs than we do. If they think everything is working as intended then fair enough, but I don’t think that is the case. Silly levels of tanking and burst damage is obviously out of balance.

Ok first, there was no need to be rude to him at all, he was replying to you in a civil manner.

Second, you’re just asking to be trolled with the way you’re going about this, you’re adamant that necro’s are a problem and need nerfing, but i can guarantee you that the rest of the community will very heavily disagree with you.

Are necro’s doing a lot of damage? Yes. Is it avoidable/counterable? Very much so, yes.

I think this is just a result of you being new to the game and not understanding the mechanics fully, Necromancers are an insanely easy class to tackle on every single class in-game, the only thing Necromancers have going for them at the moment is the hotjoin stomp build which is basically a zerker necro.

I’m allowed to be rude to anyone who is deliberately being condescending, while ignoring or not reading what I’ve said because it is inconvenient to their argument. I’m asking the devs to look into necros because I don’t think they are balanced in PvP. Not from 1v1 experiences but playing against teams with multiple necro. What are people afraid of, if there is nothing to find.

Pretty sure I was in that game. My Necro is Ombei, and I was the player with 200ish points at the end (pretty good match for me).

Were you the thief Soy Latte? You were pretty upset in chat, iirc (assuming that was you).

Three things. Awkward team comps win ALL the time in pickup games.

Secondly…that thief on your team (whether it was you or not) was the squishiest player I have ever attacked. I won’t say thieves are doing super great now, because that doesn’t seem to be the case, but an issue with the losing team in that match was builds, coordination, and player skill.

Third, there are many builds out there which do awful things to necros. I’ve been 100-0’d in CC lock I cannot escape by eles and engis due to the lack of stability. Don’t even get me started on guardians. If they’re not blocking or totally immune, I’m blinded…and usually on fire. Some classes/builds are better/worse against particular classes/builds.

It could be thieves need a buff, but let’s not start kicking around the easiest class to shutdown in the game.

Edit: If this wasn’t the right game, ignore the match-specific points.

Vague Memory.2817:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Vague Memory.2817:

zapv.8051:

Vague, the problem is your giving anecdotal evidence that having multiple necros on a team is auto an auto-win. That might be what happens in your experience but isn’t necessarily true in general. Your credibility on this topic is also hindered because you state things like, “necros have OP damage, cc, and sustain.” These are just factually not true, outside of wells and lich necromancers will do less damage on a cele build, marauder build, and condition build than their direct counterparts. There isn’t anymore cc on most necro builds than a warrior with hammer/greatsword, engi, or a mantra mesmer, and less single target than a thief. Necros sustain did get buffed, but rightly so as it was and still is bad in a lot of places.

This thread does illustrate one of the issues with necros though. Namely that they don’t have active defense and all their sustain comes from straight up hp regen. It is probably too strong against weak and even middle tier players, but underpowered against the best. IT would be nice if they increased the regen rate of DS, but made the pool much smaller.

Well I did say I would rather the devs investigate necros in-game rather than taking my word for it, or other people just defending Necro because they are onto a good thing. So maybe you should try reading comprehension before posting. The devs have the ability to watch live gameplay and likely have access to more detailed combat logs than we do. If they think everything is working as intended then fair enough, but I don’t think that is the case. Silly levels of tanking and burst damage is obviously out of balance.

Ok first, there was no need to be rude to him at all, he was replying to you in a civil manner.

Second, you’re just asking to be trolled with the way you’re going about this, you’re adamant that necro’s are a problem and need nerfing, but i can guarantee you that the rest of the community will very heavily disagree with you.

Are necro’s doing a lot of damage? Yes. Is it avoidable/counterable? Very much so, yes.

I think this is just a result of you being new to the game and not understanding the mechanics fully, Necromancers are an insanely easy class to tackle on every single class in-game, the only thing Necromancers have going for them at the moment is the hotjoin stomp build which is basically a zerker necro.

I’m allowed to be rude to anyone who is deliberately being condescending, while ignoring or not reading what I’ve said because it is inconvenient to their argument. I’m asking the devs to look into necros because I don’t think they are balanced in PvP. Not from 1v1 experiences but playing against teams with multiple necro. What are people afraid of, if there is nothing to find.

How is that any different to multiple rangers using rapid fire? Multiple guardians judges interventioning in and using whirling wrath? Multiple Warriors using Hundred blades or the Hammer CC chain? Multiple Engineers using Grenade barrage? Multiple DD eles using fire 3 & 4? Multiple thieves backstabbing or pistol whipping? Multiple Mesmers throwing out phantasms and shatters?

Hi Vague, I don’t think zapv was condescending to you at all. Your post has alarmed, maybe even offended necros due to some of the false claims that you’ve made, i.e.:
“I’m surprised necros seem to be getting a free pass when it comes to balancing.”

Our class has gotten very little buffs and huge nerfs that was kickstarted by the dhumfire nerf of 2013. It went downhill from then on. The June 23 patch gave us some sustain, but that’s really it. One of our elites’ duration got cut down in half, from 30s to 20s to 15s with no CD reduction.

And you’ve completely ignored today’s nerf to Unholy Martyr and Vampire signet

Jackalrat.5493:

Pretty sure I was in that game. My Necro is Ombei, and I was the player with 200ish points at the end (pretty good match for me).

Were you the thief Soy Latte? You were pretty upset in chat, iirc (assuming that was you).

Three things. Awkward team comps win ALL the time in pickup games.

Secondly…that thief on your team (whether it was you or not) was the squishiest player I have ever attacked. I won’t say thieves are doing super great now, because that doesn’t seem to be the case, but an issue with the losing team in that match was builds, coordination, and player skill.

Third, there are many builds out there which do awful things to necros. I’ve been 100-0’d in CC lock I cannot escape by eles and engis due to the lack of stability. Don’t even get me started on guardians. If they’re not blocking or totally immune, I’m blinded…and usually on fire. Some classes/builds are better/worse against particular classes/builds.

It could be thieves need a buff, but let’s not start kicking around the easiest class to shutdown in the game.

Edit: If this wasn’t the right game, ignore the match-specific points.

Sorry wasn’t me. I never curse out players on another team for winning. Even teams running multiple burn builds.

necro strenghts are such that they are easily used even by bad players (easy-to-use highly damaging skills, high hp)

their weaknesses as well are not noticed by bad players (no active defense at all)… especially opposing ones who maybe never played one before and are not capable of putting out serious cc chains and burst.

the higher the skill in the match goes the worse necro becomes, even the best necro player will be dead weight (no pun intended) in many high tier matches unless his team puts out SERIOUS peeling.

i suggest you this OP: play necro and see it for yourself.

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8j19ELCuos

Pimsley.3681:

Hi Vague, I don’t think zapv was condescending to you at all. Your post has alarmed, maybe even offended necros due to some of the false claims that you’ve made, i.e.:
“I’m surprised necros seem to be getting a free pass when it comes to balancing.”

Our class has gotten very little buffs and huge nerfs that was kickstarted by the dhumfire nerf of 2013. It went downhill from then on. The June 23 patch gave us some sustain, but that’s really it. One of our elites’ duration got cut down in half, from 30s to 20s to 15s with no CD reduction.

And you’ve completely ignored today’s nerf to Unholy Martyr and Vampire signet

I’m basing this solely on empirical evidence. I haven’t experienced multiples of one particular class consistently steam rolling other teams. I’ve played a significant amount PvP and this combination appeared to have an unfair advantage. I mentioned what I think the issue is above several times, and I think devs need to check this out directly in PvP. I’ve seen this several times regardless of other team composition and competency, three necros just destroying the teams. Something is definitely wrong here.

oh this is hilarious

when in doubt, nerf necro.

You heard it here first everyone, Necro is OP but only when there are three.

I think it’s ironic that necros are supposed be evil masters of the black arts but their community seem to be one of the most pleasant and least hostile. You can gauge that sorta thing by reading the posts under each class.

Instead of pushing for a nerf like everyone else, you will go further if you simply ask how to deal with certain builds.

So OP as a Thief faced the class that counters Thief easily due to heavy AoE and thus, its OP… when fighting 3 of them. Good thinking there. Really logical.

I am sure OP would have done better facing 3 rampage Warriors or 3 Guardians putting 40 stacks of burning on him. Or 3 Mesmers killing him before the next frame updates.

Some other questions that could disregard a lot of stuff: is this just based on 5 games? Or 5 teams? Did you have problems with them before patch? Are you fighting even matched fights or are people trickling in and out? Have you tried out this instant win combo to see its weaknesses? Are you going against premades? I don’t even want to take this seriously but you’re quite determined that it just isn’t right. You even said that you couldn’t pinpoint what that were doing with traits or skills that made it like this. Knowing what your enemy is trying to do is the first step to stopping it.

Targuil.3741:

Don’t stand in wells and don’t condiburst unless you’re ready to cleanse/avoid whatever they may transfer back. There, now go bag those free kills.

Also, read the patch notes, necros did get nerfed.

Ah, the good old l2p arguement. Thank you.

Vague Memory.2817:

Bhawb.7408:

Necro doesn’t either, just because you don’t remotely understand the profession doesn’t mean they are OP.

Well I think the devs need to check this out for themselves in-game. Not listen to me or anyone else and see how they are playing out in PvP. It’s clear to me that this class needs balancing, and I can’t say that any other class I’ve fought is as out of whack as a necro at the moment. It’s the only class that if multiple members are present equals auto win.

Warrior rampage was another one, but that got nerfed and rightly so.

“the devs” you say? lol, does that spec even exist? hahahahahaha

Their ds is a little strong. Dunno if unholy martyr nerf fixed it.

Oh forums… you never change <3

Lmao if 3 necros were an “auto” win then that would be the team comp meta and all you saw in pvp matches.
But it’s not. Please learn the game and the classes before you make yourself look stupid in the future. Accusing a bottom tier class of being op, I swear these forums are literally a kitten show.

Omg… I swear if the ANet ever listens to these forums and Necro’s start getting looked at as though we’re OP that will be the final straw, they can kiss my wallet goodbye.

I might be an extremely mediocre player competitively but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand my profession and the professions I fight against. And Necromancer is just so far from OP it’s not even funny. Large numbers doesn’t mean something needs adjusting it means slow attacks that are easy to avoid. Yes Necro’s can be very tanky for the kind of damage they can deal but that’s the trade off for having no other defensive options what so ever. We’re built to facetank everything so of course we’re going to appear intimidating to people who don’t know how to deal with us.

I’ll admit to nerfs when we need nerfs. We don’t need any right now, people just need to get better.

Dawdler.8521:

So OP as a Thief faced the class that counters Thief easily due to heavy AoE and thus, its OP… when fighting 3 of them. Good thinking there. Really logical.

I am sure OP would have done better facing 3 rampage Warriors or 3 Guardians putting 40 stacks of burning on him. Or 3 Mesmers killing him before the next frame updates.

I used to be able to beat most necros (inc minion) 1vs1 on my d/p thief- they were one of my favourite classes to play against as a thief because the steal is so good. Pretty sure I have no chance of doing that anymore even against inexperienced players.

Anyway, necros do seem quite a bit stronger atm, not sure if that is necessarily a bad thing though, and they are not as OP as ele/Mesmer atm (imo).

We tried 4 mm one mesmer in the AG tourney after the team that went to the finals or won wrecked us 1st game second rd. (Sassy skwad) it was definitely a better game but kind of Lord kill double juked us. we were an fa ream and my teammates didn’t really play necro l.

I like posts like this one. They remind me that I’m actually not that bad player.

Dear Anet, I’m a bad player and got pwned by some Necros. I thus conclude they are OP though I literally know nothing about them. Please have your devs look into this and nerf them.

~ Vague Memory

you do realise as a thief you just need to daze the necro and 111 your way to victory right? shove a blind on them and daze the right skills not much they can do.. shadow step away from tainted shackles breaks its contact and continue to smack away.

it might take a while but by then your team mate is there to help or the necro will have run out of deathshroud

Does necromancers need nerfs or do they need cleaning? The way ArenaNet has traits setup they can easily have it that your traitlines can alter your shroud skills entirely, give them a unique shroud color hue depending on what kind of traitlines they take.

_

There are so many problematic design problems with necromancers from their core class ability, weapon skills and traits still. Staff is just badly designed, leftover beta ideas, Signet of Spite and the Plague Sending trait is a must have on every necromancer. The list can go on and on. They are many more cele necromancers thanks so so many X% increasing scaling traits.

Sure, other classes have concepts that need refining but Necromancers take the cake and the whole kittening wedding how much problems they design-ly have.

The list can go on and on. They are many more cele necromancers thanks so so many X% increasing scaling traits.

Such as? Becuase last i checked necro have one of the lowest amount of damage mods out of any class in the game. Cele is because of boon corruption and might stacking we can now do.

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

unlucky.9285:

you do realise as a thief you just need to daze the necro and 111 your way to victory right? shove a blind on them and daze the right skills not much they can do.. shadow step away from tainted shackles breaks its contact and continue to smack away.

it might take a while but by then your team mate is there to help or the necro will have run out of deathshroud

Maybe that would work on sword/dagger thief? On d/p (before the patch) I did it by wilting them down with blinds/auto attack and stealth to heal/condi cleanse, then timing backstab burst and stolen fears to finish.

However, I can’t do that since the patch because everything hits so hard. Also note that if its taking a long time the necro’s teammates are also very likely to show up, which probably means instant death these days.

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

yea, Qing right now, almost 2 necro every single Q, and just had a 5 necro Q, 3 on one team 2 on other..

lighter.2708:

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

yea, Qing right now, almost 2 necro every single Q, and just had a 5 necro Q, 3 on one team 2 on other..

I’ve been seeing more of this too. Pre-patch I switched back and forth between Necro and Mes, but Mes was just too powerful post-patch to feel rewarding. Unfortunately it feels like Mesmers are just as common.

lighter.2708:

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

yea, Qing right now, almost 2 necro every single Q, and just had a 5 necro Q, 3 on one team 2 on other..

Today is Necro win daily…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

yea, Qing right now, almost 2 necro every single Q, and just had a 5 necro Q, 3 on one team 2 on other..

Today is Necro win daily…

everyday is necro daily?..

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

there’s actually more and more necros in soloq

Really? I see mostly the same ones so often I keep track of builds and names :/ on topic that’s not necro specific you probably had a mental dilemma “Which necro should we target first?”.

yeah that dudes a troll and hardly contribute anything substantial to take seriously

Big thing to consider when facing a team with necros is the Lich form. If ignored, it can do a ton of damage and even take down several people. I’ve seen too many teams wipe on the first mid battle because they forgot to pay attention to the necro’s Lich form. I’m not saying that it is OP. People just need to pay attention to it.

Necros IMO are easy to learn, hard to master. They have a LOT of condi clear and are quite tanky while putting out a decent amount of damage. At lower skill levels they are great at most 1v1s and stalling for days, so that their TEAM can arrive.

Necro thrives in pugs because in pugs there is less focus and teamwork, which is the exact thing needed to lock down and crush a necro. I just faced a three necro team, and yes it was difficult at first, but we regrouped and started working together and their comp fell apart.

As far a thief v necro goes, in sPvP I give the advantage to necro, simply because they have better point control and sustain. I would go as far as to say they counter thieves.

I’ll repeat what many people have said on here before, if you’re struggling against a profession, go and play it and learn its timings and weak points.