Ok, let’s try and be constructive. I’ve vented enough about how bumping all bears and sharks to dragon is unfair to higher level players. I understand the intention of Anet to make PvP more accessible, so here are a few ways to satisfy everyone.
1. Revamp finishers from start to finish. Let us who have reached r55+ keep our current finishers if we want to show that at one time we were among the top percentage of players. So bears, sharks, and phoenix’s will no longer be achievable.
or
2. Keep PvP titles the way they are now (after rebalancing for rank points earned in tourneys of course). This way, the titles will still be very difficult to achieve and those of us who have the rank points for higher titles will still be able to retain them and work towards the highest tier over time.
or
3. Rebalance to only have r65+ players hit r80 instead of r55.
What do you think of either of these three compromises?
It takes an absurd amount of time to reach 50+, I have been PvPing for 1 and a half years and I am only 50.
The current rank boost is fine, it has been long needed.
Do you have an objection to one of the three ideas outlined above? You can’t deny that if it took you 1.5 years to reach r50, it must have taken an insane amount of dedication to reach higher ranks no?
It takes an absurd amount of time to reach 50+, I have been PvPing for 1 and a half years and I am only 50.
The current rank boost is fine, it has been long needed.
I would say that it “took” an absurd amount of time, but under the new system, with massively increased rank gain (1.5k per team, 1k per solo, etc. w/ increased gains for losses), that it won’t take an absurd amount of time anymore and dragon is going to be too easy to reach.
I think they absolutely did need to adjust both it and the title track, but i think they went too far in the other direction. Instead of 8m+ rank for 80 and 14m+ pts for the top title, I think somewhere in the 3.5m to 4m rank points for dragon would be good and align the title track to those stages, it would still be rare, it would still represent a lot of time given but it would be achievable for dedicated players and that re-balance would bring bear and shark and even phoenix closer to more casual players.
1. It takes 20k to move up a rank (just as ANET has indicated)
2. There is no level 80 cap so people can go as high as they want
3. Dragon finishers would still be available at 80
4. ANET can begin provide new rewards to ranks above 80. For example, maybe rank 100 is elder dragon.
Adding ranks above 80 is not going to fix the problem where a new player starts the game and thinks its impossible to reach rank 80 or 80+ like it is now.
It makes no sense to make a rank unattainable to 99% of the game.
1. It takes 20k to move up a rank (just as ANET has indicated)
2. There is no level 80 cap so people can go as high as they want
3. Dragon finishers would still be available at 80
4. ANET can begin provide new rewards to ranks above 80. For example, maybe rank 100 is elder dragon.
It makes no sense to make a rank unattainable to 99% of the game.
This is so blatantly wrong that it hurts. If you have nothing for the top players, then you won’t have those players for long. Hardcore players need something to works towards, too.
Captain of Never Lucky [NL]
Competitive Warrior, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer, Thief
It makes no sense to make a rank unattainable to 99% of the game.
This is so blatantly wrong that it hurts. If you have nothing for the top players, then you won’t have those players for long. Hardcore players need something to works towards, too.
Well you have the leaderboards…
Hardcore players don’t generate near as much money as casual players btw
It makes no sense to make a rank unattainable to 99% of the game.
This is so blatantly wrong that it hurts. If you have nothing for the top players, then you won’t have those players for long. Hardcore players need something to works towards, too.
Well you have the leaderboards…
Hardcore players don’t generate near as much money as casual players btw
I don’t why everyone has to talk about money. Nowhere did Anet mention that they are doing this for the money.
1. It takes 20k to move up a rank (just as ANET has indicated)
2. There is no level 80 cap so people can go as high as they want
3. Dragon finishers would still be available at 80
4. ANET can begin provide new rewards to ranks above 80. For example, maybe rank 100 is elder dragon.
That’s an interesting idea, here’s something i put together very quickly, so the math might be a bit off, but this would allow up to rank 500 and two new finishers, elder phoenix and elder dragon while realigning the title tracks to match making Legendary Champion a very long term, only-the-most-dedicated and consistent players will get it title along with elder dragon.
If you already have a title unlocked, you would be grandfathered in… but i wonder if they would consider something like this.
Conversation over. If you think the leaderboards are a good incentive for hardcore players, then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The leaderboards are a joke among top players.
Captain of Never Lucky [NL]
Competitive Warrior, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer, Thief
Conversation over. If you think the leaderboards are a good incentive for hardcore players, then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The leaderboards are a joke among top players.
They why the hell even play? To take 10 years to go Dragon Rank? I’m losing all respect for any of the high ranked players.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
Conversation over. If you think the leaderboards are a good incentive for hardcore players, then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The leaderboards are a joke among top players.
They why the hell even play? To take 10 years to go Dragon Rank? I’m losing all respect for any of the high ranked players.
Why not take 10 years? (Exaggeration of course, but still). It’s called a long term goal.
Conversation over. If you think the leaderboards are a good incentive for hardcore players, then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The leaderboards are a joke among top players.
Ranks were never an incentive for the ‘hardcore players’, those are a joke too. Stop trying to be rewarded for the kittened system that was glory/ranks. Skyhammer farming and the current tournament win reward for rank points completely disregard anybody who’d played before those features were implemented. Plus repeatedly farming hotjoins was the best method for gaining glory for the first year+ of the game.
They why the hell even play? To take 10 years to go Dragon Rank? I’m losing all respect for any of the high ranked players.
Nobody said that the original dragon rank was reasonable. However, the planned changes make it way too easy. Not only are they making it nine times easier to get dragon rank, but they’ve buffed rank point rewards significantly as well.
Also, let me explain why I don’t think the leaderboards are a good incentive: they incentivize you to only play with a set team. I play for fun and with a bunch of different people, so the leaderboards aren’t a good goal for me. Cut out with the self-righteous speak when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Captain of Never Lucky [NL]
Competitive Warrior, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer, Thief
Conversation over. If you think the leaderboards are a good incentive for hardcore players, then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The leaderboards are a joke among top players.
Ranks were never an incentive for the ‘hardcore players’, those are a joke too. Stop trying to be rewarded for the kittened system that was glory/ranks. Skyhammer farming and the current tournament win reward for rank points completely disregard anybody who’d played before those features were implemented. Plus repeatedly farming hotjoins was the best method for gaining glory for the first year+ of the game.
I consider myself a hardcore PvP player and ranks are the only incentive for me. Can you name some other incentive that PvP awards?
Didn’t think so. And no, just “for fun” doesn’t count as an incentive.
Ranks were never an incentive for the ‘hardcore players’, those are a joke too. Stop trying to be rewarded for the kittened system that was glory/ranks.
What makes you say ranks were never an incentive for hardcore players? I was happy when I hit rank 60, and I know top players who have farmed all night long to hit 60 or 70. They aren’t the best reward system, but they were all we’ve had.
And what’s wrong with wanting to be rewarded for the glory system? It’s either that or get absolutely nothing for the past year and a half.
Captain of Never Lucky [NL]
Competitive Warrior, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer, Thief
Adding ranks above 80 is not going to fix the problem where a new player starts the game and thinks its impossible to reach rank 80 or 80+ like it is now.
It makes no sense to make a rank unattainable to 99% of the game.
It is the exact opposite of what you said. What do you don’t want is ranks that have large gaps between progression. For example, if you have a reward at rank 10 and then you don’t have another until rank 100, that is a problem. If you have a different reward every 10 levels, then people are working towards something.
1. It takes 20k to move up a rank (just as ANET has indicated)
2. There is no level 80 cap so people can go as high as they want
3. Dragon finishers would still be available at 80
4. ANET can begin provide new rewards to ranks above 80. For example, maybe rank 100 is elder dragon.
Don’t WvW ranks work in this way?
Sort of. Yes, there is no rank cap, but it serves a very different purpose than a system in PvP. In WvW, every level allows you to unlock new abilities (something you wouldn’t want in PvP for balance reasons). In WvW, you also do not see the rank of those on your server so it isn’t really a pride thing.
In PvP, it would not unlock new abilities, only cosmetic items such as finishers.
Ranks were never an incentive for the ‘hardcore players’, those are a joke too. Stop trying to be rewarded for the kittened system that was glory/ranks.
What makes you say ranks were never an incentive for hardcore players? I was happy when I hit rank 60, and I know top players who have farmed all night long to hit 60 or 70. They aren’t the best reward system, but they were all we’ve had.
And what’s wrong with wanting to be rewarded for the glory system? It’s either that or get absolutely nothing for the past year and a half.
I suppose our definitions of hardcore are different. The only reason people started being incentivized to gain ranks was the increased rank gain recently, and the unknown of what would happen to ranks. Which in turn made people want the exclusivity of having a high rank so they’d be one of the only players with phoenix finisher post patch. Having to grind from 60-70 just for the phoenix finisher isn’t entirely enticing. PvPers got a huge bonus with the wintersdays bags/glory too. Idk, new system is good. It’d actually be fun to have a rank per profession to be honest, but the new system in place seems like a good start.
I’m just curious how many players legitimately reach r60-r70 without skyhammer farm and now are crying because they wasted their time.
I’m really unhappy for people who legitimately reach r60-70 legit but skyhammer farmers need only to shut up and appreciate their next r80 and dragon finisher.
I’m just curious how many players legitimately reach r60-r70 without skyhammer farm and now are crying because they wasted their time.
I’m really unhappy for people who legitimately reach r60-70 legit but skyhammer farmers need only to shut up and appreciate their next r80 and dragon finisher.
I think most people who reached r60-70 are legit. I’m r51 and only went once or twice a couple of weeks ago for the first time to see what the fuss was all about. I hardly think I’m unique.
2. Keep PvP titles the way they are now (after rebalancing for rank points earned in tourneys of course). This way, the titles will still be very difficult to achieve and those of us who have the rank points for higher titles will still be able to retain them and work towards the highest tier over time.
people who wasted their time and life getting a high rank shouldnt be punished like this. im not even a high rank yet and i dont want to be a r50 dragon. lets be honest, the amount of points needed to level in pvp is a bit tedious but this sounds like its just an open invitation to get more pve people into pvp because its suffering already.
1. reduce the overall number of points needed to get through 70-80. make it easier for those already in that bracket while still giving both them and lower ranks something to work towards.
2. give people some type of booster that gives one pvp level based on the first number of your rank. r1-19 gets one free level, r50-59 gets 5 free levels, r70+ gets 7 free levels, etc.
- Don’t change a thing except rewarding the current people who are r55+ better. Not rewarding the r70’s for example is just………. awful
How? A title, few hundred of those bags, etc. Take your pick.
(- More retroactive rewards (some rank points would suffice) for people who played Tpvp, and not hotjoin/skyhammer farm would be nice too but won’t happen probably.)
- Get your kitten on those ladders/seasons. Tie in reward tracks. (titles, gear, even pets and whatever fluff you throw at us) Make sure top tier, mid tier, low tier get rewarded. Make those rewards EXCLUSIVE to the different tiers, and whatever. Yes, that means a mid tier won’t be able to look the same as the top tier player. Thats the way IT SHOULD BE! Skill gets rewarded this way. Finally. GG
The changes are fine and much needed for the vast majority of players.
And for those that think it is unfair that pvp players don’t get retroactive rewards, they may be reminded that everybody did receive rewards for pvp’ing up until the glory removal incident.
There is a rank fiasco and it will be solved on April, 15th.
Or they make it like fractals and everybody starts from scratch again.
I’m just curious how many players legitimately reach r60-r70 without skyhammer farm and now are crying because they wasted their time.
I’m really unhappy for people who legitimately reach r60-70 legit but skyhammer farmers need only to shut up and appreciate their next r80 and dragon finisher.
I haven’t seen a single skyhammer farmer complaining about this. If you see one point him out to me, please.
All of us r60+ here complaining can screenshot our tQ/sQ games played.
I think they should just give it all away to rank 10 players. What about that?
Definite this. Since rank is clearly so meaningless to the forums, it needs to be on par with pve lvl 80. r10-20 should = dragon rank. Something a player can get in 2-3 days of active play.
Better yet I’d rather them delete ranks at this point. I would much rather them delete ranks than see 2,000 dragons.
ArenaNet doesn’t need to do anything. Think about the big picture.
The people who are high-ranked are obviously so obsessed with the game that they’ll most likely keep playing no matter what. And even if some of them quit over the change, they will represent a minority of an extreme minority that ArenaNet shouldn’t care much about placating in the first place.
Meanwhile, the low-ranked players obviously need a greater incentive to PvP, and easier rank-ups provide that.
Why would new players come? Rank is meaningless and if you looked up the datamined info champ farming in queensdale will yield over twice as much loot per hour than tpvp… and that’s not even the best way of getting loot by a long shot O_o
Because PvP is fun. You don’t need to add crazy incentives for a fun activity. Reward tracks, rank-up boosts, and the other unannounced reward feature are enough to incentivize people into a fun game mode. That’s especially true if the point of comparison is something as mindless and boring as champion farming.
So you’re saying we’re getting a huge influx of new players because of rank up boosts? That’s been regarded as meaningless, not a judge of skill and no one cares about it anyway.
Rewards? You mean the rewards already shown to be far less efficient than pve alternatives.
Fun? If they weren’t playing pvp for fun already, they won’t come now.
1. Revamp finishers from start to finish. Let us who have reached r55+ keep our current finishers if we want to show that at one time we were among the top percentage of players.
Sorry, you must be confused. For a top player you have to look at the leaderboard, not at the glory-skyhammer-farmed-rank.
BTW: We have been a pretty loud community once the skyhammer farming started, begging ANet to stop this nonsense, but since then rank has nothing to do with being an achievement.
The next step was the increase of the rank points rewarded per game, but without getting credit for the games you played in the past, players who have played since the start already got screwed. But did anyone of you cried here? No?
Dramatically reducing the amount of points necessary to reach rank 80 is a good step in the right direction!
We all want to have a health pvp environment, and for that we need more participating players. Do you currently see a lot of players around? No?
Well, a good structured reward system, and that includes an appealing amount of time necessary to reach rank 80 might help changing this.
Thank you ArenaNet for changing the point necessary to reach rank 80!
EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend
1. Revamp finishers from start to finish. Let us who have reached r55+ keep our current finishers if we want to show that at one time we were among the top percentage of players.
Sorry, you must be confused. For a top player you have to look at the leaderboard, not at the glory-skyhammer-farmed-rank.
BTW: We have been a pretty loud community once the skyhammer farming started, begging ANet to stop this nonsense, but since then rank has nothing to do with being an achievement.
The next step was the increase of the rank points rewarded per game, but without getting credit for the games you played in the past, players who have played since the start already got screwed. But did anyone of you cried here? No?
Dramatically reducing the amount of points necessary to reach rank 80 is a good step in the right direction!
We all want to have a health pvp environment, and for that we need more participating players. Do you currently see a lot of players around? No?
Well, a good structured reward system, and that includes an appealing amount of time necessary to reach rank 80 might help changing this.
Thank you ArenaNet for changing the point necessary to reach rank 80!
Skyhammer “farmers” are a tiny minority. Don’t demean and disrespect the hard work put in by the overwhelming majority of us to earn our ranks. I bet they total number of skyhammer farmers is like 0.01% of the player base. This whole issue is way overblown.
Skyhammer “farmers” are a tiny minority. Don’t demean and disrespect the hard work put in by the overwhelming majority of us to earn our ranks. I bet they total number of skyhammer farmers is like 0.01% of the player base. This whole issue is way overblown.
1.) Your own statistic, could also be 30%
2.) Only addressing one of my points, there are more! Thank you for reading!
EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend
1. Revamp finishers from start to finish. Let us who have reached r55+ keep our current finishers if we want to show that at one time we were among the top percentage of players.
Sorry, you must be confused. For a top player you have to look at the leaderboard, not at the glory-skyhammer-farmed-rank.
BTW: We have been a pretty loud community once the skyhammer farming started, begging ANet to stop this nonsense, but since then rank has nothing to do with being an achievement.
The next step was the increase of the rank points rewarded per game, but without getting credit for the games you played in the past, players who have played since the start already got screwed. But did anyone of you cried here? No?
Dramatically reducing the amount of points necessary to reach rank 80 is a good step in the right direction!
We all want to have a health pvp environment, and for that we need more participating players. Do you currently see a lot of players around? No?
Well, a good structured reward system, and that includes an appealing amount of time necessary to reach rank 80 might help changing this.
Thank you ArenaNet for changing the point necessary to reach rank 80!
Skyhammer “farmers” are a tiny minority. Don’t demean and disrespect the hard work put in by the overwhelming majority of us to earn our ranks. I bet they total number of skyhammer farmers is like 0.01% of the player base. This whole issue is way overblown.
Overwhelming Majority? You kidding me? 50+ is a minority within a minority, you are NO WHERE near an overwhelming majority. The Overwhelming Majority are nothing more than Hotjoin farmers, rank has never been a sign of being a good player, it just shows how much time you’ve funneled into sPvP.
The Leaderboards should show whose top notch, but that system needs to be fixed, they need to reward the top % of players in there, give them access to a special finisher that shows how great they are, something like the Dolyak Finishers for WvW, where after a while everyone within the top X% get access to the finisher until the next “season” ends and then it’s given to whoevers in that %.
Reward the Elite players, not those who spend more time than others, there’s a difference.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
All they really needed to do in my opinion was rescale the ranks from 68-80. That’s where the rank points spike up from 150,000 to 450,000-750,000 per level. To many, getting to rank 70 was attainable with enough effort and dedication. It was the rank requirements from 68-80 that were unreasonable for the vast majority.
Something like 175,000-200,000 points per level after rank 68 would be much more in line with the expectations of players. This way you make dragon a realistic long-term goal for the competitive casual, but leave it difficult enough for the hardcore crowd. There’s no reason you can’t and shouldn’t satisfy both groups.
All anet needs to do to fit this into their current plans is to change the rank-up chest to an achievement track reward that kicks in every 20,000 rank points.
Diotima of Mantinea, r65 Elementalist
Vovin, r65 Warrior
Guild: V A E V I C T I S [HEX]
Reward the Elite players, not those who spend more time than others, there’s a difference.
This is an MMO not a MOBA. In MMOs, time is always rewarded. If a skyhammer farmer has reached r70 (unlikely), then they need to be rewarded for that nonetheless. It’s no joke to reach r70. Even so called “skyhammer farmers” would have to be insanely dedicated.
Reward the Elite players, not those who spend more time than others, there’s a difference.
This is an MMO not a MOBA. In MMOs, time is always rewarded. If a skyhammer farmer has reached r70 (unlikely), then they need to be rewarded for that nonetheless. It’s no joke to reach r70. Even so called “skyhammer farmers” would have to be insanely dedicated.
That needs to be rewarded. Skill, or no skill.
if you want to be rewarded for farming brainlessly, go play pve, or even wvw, no pvpers would want it, go away.
if you want to be rewarded for farming brainlessly, go play pve, or even wvw, no pvpers would want it, go away.
I’ve stopped reading this guys posts, because I’m fairly sure he is a skyhammer farmer and his “hardwork” is getting taken away from him. Yaknow since everyone is gonna be bear or higher.
Edit: and when I say this guys post I mean the guy Simon quoted.
Pinnacle of Responsibility[Mom]-Yaks Bend
Unstable Shield, Unstable Light
if you want to be rewarded for farming brainlessly, go play pve, or even wvw, no pvpers would want it, go away.
I’ve stopped reading this guys posts, because I’m fairly sure he is a skyhammer farmer and his “hardwork” is getting taken away from him. Yaknow since everyone is gonna be bear or higher.
Edit: and when I say this guys post I mean the guy Simon quoted.
There we go with the mythical “skyhammer farmers” again. Bad farmers!
Even if leaderboards are wonky, top 25 tpvp (not yolo) means a hell of a lot more than ranks…. Ranks just mean you played a lot. But if you’re rank 70+ and not placing well, chances are you don’t deserve a flashy emote, and that time spent could have been better spent doing something else because you haven’t been getting better with allll that time spent. That’s how I feel about it… Especially considering the stream of tricks people have used to get ranks over the past year and a half… No one’s jumping off sky hammer and making it to top 25 tpvp. Sure, if you’re good it doesn’t take as long to get, because someone has to fill those slots, but it still means more. Maybe a good goal is to see how many weeks/months your team can hold #1 team? Surely that says more than how many months you can zzzz through hotjoins and mindless matches, plus all the other tricks.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Even if leaderboards are wonky, top 25 tpvp (not yolo) means a hell of a lot more than ranks…. Ranks just mean you played a lot. But if you’re rank 70+ and not placing well, chances are you don’t deserve a flashy emote, and that time spent could have been better spent doing something else because you haven’t been getting better with allll that time spent. That’s how I feel about it… Especially considering the stream of tricks people have used to get ranks over the past year and a half… No one’s jumping off sky hammer and making it to top 25 tpvp. Sure, if you’re good it doesn’t take as long to get, because someone has to fill those slots, but it still means more. Maybe a good goal is to see how many weeks/months your team can hold #1 team? Surely that says more than how many months you can zzzz through hotjoins and mindless matches, plus all the other tricks.
Team queue is leaderboard is worse than solo queue since you can farm solo joiners. Even if a team lost every match against other teams they could still rank high by winning every solo joiner game.
All they really needed to do in my opinion was rescale the ranks from 68-80. That’s where the rank points spike up from 150,000 to 450,000-750,000 per level. To many, getting to rank 70 was attainable with enough effort and dedication. It was the rank requirements from 68-80 that were unreasonable for the vast majority.
Something like 175,000-200,000 points per level after rank 68 would be much more in line with the expectations of players. This way you make dragon a realistic long-term goal for the competitive casual, but leave it difficult enough for the hardcore crowd. There’s no reason you can’t and shouldn’t satisfy both groups.
All anet needs to do to fit this into their current plans is to change the rank-up chest to an achievement track reward that kicks in every 20,000 rank points.
I played top 25 (was 7 at one point) and I could only play durring peak hours. I never fought anyone who wasn’t at least top 500, most of the people I knew, and we didn’t have to deal with 4v5s. Mid tiers? Sure you’ll have that.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I really do not understand this “whine” about rank 55 becoming 80. Since launch I have played over 1500hours of PvP, mainly teamque’s ankitten ow rank 56. Not everyone has oceans of time -reference-
