Guild Wars 2

Same value, burning can stack but at least we have a cap in pvp.

Considering 3 stacks with a condi build (and celestial with high might) is always a really good damage (850+).

In this way you shave ele dd cele damage and some other condi builds who can stack a ridiculous burning quantity in a short time.

You can modify the burning duration in relation to this tweak

/discuss

Phil.8901:

Same value, burning can stack but at least we have a cap in pvp.

Considering 3 stacks with a condi build (and celestial with high might) is always a really good damage (850+).

In this way you shave ele dd cele damage and some other condi builds who can stack a ridiculous burning quantity in a short time.

You can modify the burning duration in relation to this tweak

/discuss

+1

Phil.8901:

Same value, burning can stack but at least we have a cap in pvp.

Considering 3 stacks with a condi build (and celestial with high might) is always a really good damage (850+).

In this way you shave ele dd cele damage and some other condi builds who can stack a ridiculous burning quantity in a short time.

You can modify the burning duration in relation to this tweak

/discuss

+1

I need help I can’t find my -1 button.

This is terrible, stop complaining and make your build able to handle conditions, if this is @ burn guards you’d be nerfing a class that has a ton of couners and if this is at ele’s tell Anet to nerf ele’s instead. Just cause you can’t find a build that handles power and condi pressure don’t make the game change.

So gg to condi engi, condi ranger, and condi guard. Do you really not see the ramifications of this, or do you just not care about balance as long as you don’t have to run condi clear? Genuinely curious.

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

+1

If implemented, a dps guardian would easily override the burning stacks an ele or burn guard could apply. Not supported. We did away with this mechanic before for reasons above.

A better solution would be to just reduce the stacking ratio of burn. But re-implementing a condi cap after we just removed one doesn’t make sense.

Sagat.3285:

I need help I can’t find my -1 button.

+1

Slininstien.7546:

This is terrible, stop complaining and make your build able to handle conditions, if this is @ burn guards you’d be nerfing a class that has a ton of couners and if this is at ele’s tell Anet to nerf ele’s instead. Just cause you can’t find a build that handles power and condi pressure don’t make the game change.

+1

zapv.8051:

So gg to condi engi, condi ranger, and condi guard. Do you really not see the ramifications of this, or do you just not care about balance as long as you don’t have to run condi clear? Genuinely curious.

+1

people that use common sense and critical thinking are great

while you’re at it cap direct damage at ~1k per second. it’s been killing me a lot lately.

I dont see a problem with a Condition that can be used for bursting as long as the skills that apply it are balanced accordingly.

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

If you haven’t noticed already, Conditions in GW2 have always been all about burst.
Not sustain damage, at all.

Also

choovanski.5462:

while you’re at it cap direct damage at ~1k per second. it’s been killing me a lot lately.

• “Marauder and Berserker PvP Amulets’ primary stat is now Healing Power.”

terrible idea……try fixing the broken class that has access to way too much burn application rather than the burn condition itself

Need that -1 button.

zapv.8051:

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

We are talking about burning.

No other condis can deal the same burning damage with few stacks.

It’s not a damage over time, you receive a really high spike damage for few sec.. And after the burning application is all passive damage. And with some build the burning application is constant during the fight

Ofc multiple condis on u deal high damage, but we are talking about only 1 condi Who doesn’t scale well with stacks and damage in relation to other condis.

It’s a problem and needs a solution.

Op suggestion is good if you want an easy fix or you need to correct many burning stacks application of some builds or change the burning value.

Again its not burning its the frequent application of burning that is the proble. Look at guards. They have only one Damaging condi which is burning and they have to blow pretty much all their cooldowns (which includes one of their meditation heals) to burst you. Its immediately on a 36 sec CD. Purging Flames when traited is a 28 sec CD.

If you cant clear one stack of burning every 30 seconds or so then you really need to take a look at your build.

The problem comes with Eles that can apply burn stacks in many diff ways in rapid fire mode.

Spartacus.3192:

Again its not burning its the frequent application of burning that is the proble. Look at guards. They have only one Damaging condi which is burning and they have to blow pretty much all their cooldowns (which includes one of their meditation heals) to burst you. Its immediately on a 36 sec CD. Purging Flames when traited is a 28 sec CD.

If you cant clear one stack of burning every 30 seconds or so then you really need to take a look at your build.

The problem comes with Eles that can apply burn stacks in many diff ways in rapid fire mode.

You play burning guardian and i understand you want to defend it.

But honestly the burning guardian application is kittened, you don’t have the same sustain and mobility of a Cele DD and for this reason is not at the same level, but the burning application and the capability to reach an high burning stacks in broken on guardian.

The problem is always the same, a single condition who can deal massive spike damage with few stacks in few secs.

Sigils like geo and doom can add more condis to a condi build so you can cover better burning.

We had a lot of topics about burning and how much kitten it is in this state, there were different suggestions (lower stacks, lower damage forula, both of them, cap etc.) but Anet said they are thinking some fix for ele and other classes, we’ll see, at this point is useless talk about it.

Need to wait.

philheat.3956:

zapv.8051:

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

We are talking about burning.

No other condis can deal the same burning damage with few stacks.

It’s not a damage over time, you receive a really high spike damage for few sec.. And after the burning application is all passive damage. And with some build the burning application is constant during the fight

Ofc multiple condis on u deal high damage, but we are talking about only 1 condi Who doesn’t scale well with stacks and damage in relation to other condis.

It’s a problem and needs a solution.

Op suggestion is good if you want an easy fix or you need to correct many burning stacks application of some builds or change the burning value.

It is damage over time, no skill applies 20 stacks of burning for 1 second. That’s damage over time, just because plebs can’t remove or avoid the condition application does not make it instant burst. Every condition build has build up time, since you don’t know this your knowledge on the subject comes into question.

It takes multiple skills applying just burning to deal high damage per second, giving you multiple opportunities to use condi removal to mitigate any kind of burst that would be attained from multiple stacks. 3 stacks of burning is not burst, 1k damage ticks aren’t burst, 10k mesmer combos in an instant, 20 stacks of burning on you at once, that is burst. Difference is, you have an instant to avoid the mesmer burst, but the burn burst had to be built up over time.

No to capping burning. Damage is damage, it really doesn’t matter where it comes from. Remember that vitality and condition clear is the defense from conditions and toughness/protection is the defense to power. Both can now burst if you setup your attack well. People wanted a burst meta and they got 2 different types of burst. However in a solo q world, where you don’t know who your party is, the ability to provide support for BOTH is difficult. This is why support guardian has come back into play. I just think that rather than nerf 4 classes just to nerf 1, we look at keeping different builds viable.

Yes i do play hybrid burn guard. But i also play warrior and having played warrior a lot i know that pure burn guard in pvp is not all that great. Im way more afraid of fighting an ele than i am of a guard. My war has a lot of condi cleanses (brawlers recovery plus cleansing ire plus soldier runes/shouts using Longbow) which makes a burn guard almost completely useless while it still gets roasted by an ele.

i honestly dont know how any class with at least 2 or 3 condi clears on a 30 sec cooldown has any problems dealing with a pure burn guard. Its the main reason i went to hybrid instead. Ive come across way too many good players that can cleanse well the ONLY damaging condi a guard has. A hybrid guard at least has some physical damage to fall back on.

zapv.8051:

It takes multiple skills applying just burning to deal high damage per second, giving you multiple opportunities to use condi removal to mitigate any kind of burst that would be attained from multiple stacks. 3 stacks of burning is not burst, 1k damage ticks aren’t burst, 10k mesmer combos in an instant, 20 stacks of burning on you at once, that is burst. Difference is, you have an instant to avoid the mesmer burst, but the burn burst had to be built up over time.

Yeah, for this reason, because 3 stacks aren’t spike damage I suggested a cap.

You don’t need 20 stacks burning. 6 stacks are a LOT of damage, 6stacks+ is too much damage for a single condis.

BTW We’ll see what Anet will do, probably they won’t change the general burning value but they will change something in some builds.

zapv.8051:

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

I agree with you. I have read so often that condition is not supposed to burst enemys. Show me the thread, where a anetdeveloper have stated this. Otherwise i will not count this as an argument. And i also dont see, where thiefs or mesmer are so more risky, while using berserkeramulett. Ofcourse it is not easy, but in the end you can use bersekeramulett because you have access to mechanics like stealth, what makes it a way more easier.
The Problem is that PvP-Meta was focused on berserkerbuilds for more than 3 years (and it has not changed until now. Just look on metabattle.) Because of this most of our builds obvious use stunbreaker, skills to negate directdamage and so on to counter it. Conditiondamage was never a problem for this three years (in high-tier pvp), so many of our great- and metabuilds have neglected condiremove. Most of the pvper cannot react fast enough to this changes these days, using only skills to counter directdamage and start to cry about burningdamage. Burning is so overpowered? Burnguards can burst, but after it they are free to kill. Why? They cannot leave the battle after they used their burstskills like thieves would do.
Burning is not overpowered, rethink your builds and teamcomps. Add Shoutguards, Shoutwarriors and there will be no problem. This game is balanced for 5v5, not 1v1.

This is one of the dumbest ideas ever.

But…but….if you nerf burning I can’t laugh at burn guards when I send all their burning back on my necro =<

zapv.8051:

philheat.3956:

zapv.8051:

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

We are talking about burning.

No other condis can deal the same burning damage with few stacks.

It’s not a damage over time, you receive a really high spike damage for few sec.. And after the burning application is all passive damage. And with some build the burning application is constant during the fight

Ofc multiple condis on u deal high damage, but we are talking about only 1 condi Who doesn’t scale well with stacks and damage in relation to other condis.

It’s a problem and needs a solution.

Op suggestion is good if you want an easy fix or you need to correct many burning stacks application of some builds or change the burning value.

It is damage over time, no skill applies 20 stacks of burning for 1 second. That’s damage over time, just because plebs can’t remove or avoid the condition application does not make it instant burst. Every condition build has build up time, since you don’t know this your knowledge on the subject comes into question.

It takes multiple skills applying just burning to deal high damage per second, giving you multiple opportunities to use condi removal to mitigate any kind of burst that would be attained from multiple stacks. 3 stacks of burning is not burst, 1k damage ticks aren’t burst, 10k mesmer combos in an instant, 20 stacks of burning on you at once, that is burst. Difference is, you have an instant to avoid the mesmer burst, but the burn burst had to be built up over time.

Overtime? My engineer Poison Dart Volley applies 25k damage to a target if it cannot cleanse the conditions.

You don’t see a problem with 25k damage from a single ability? That stuff reduces build diversity by alot. You must build condition cleanse which can handle condition spam. It is not that you can… you must build that kind of defense. Just as you must build stunbreakers. Every must have reduces build diversity.

I disagree. There is MORE build diversity because there are MORE paths to damage. Also, there are SEVERAL ways to mitigate conditions. There are sigils, runes, traits, and skills that clear conditions. Balancing your defense and offense is what creates a good build. You must have condi clear but how you go about that, is up to you. Perhaps there are easier ways to do that but you can also look at team comp to help with that.

I think a cap at 5 would be more fair, like chill. How is chill so OP that it needs a 5 cap, but burning isn’t?

Phil.8901:

Same value, burning can stack but at least we have a cap in pvp.

Considering 3 stacks with a condi build (and celestial with high might) is always a really good damage (850+).

In this way you shave ele dd cele damage and some other condi builds who can stack a ridiculous burning quantity in a short time.

You can modify the burning duration in relation to this tweak

/discuss

at least we have a cap in pvp…

So what if burn gives a build spike damage, for builds that rotate around that one condi like burn guard and burn engi, it’s literally 1 condi clear from negating it, kinda like how 1 block or 1 invuln blocks power bursts. No, this will never happen. Cap it at 25 if we need a cap, I get hard countered by too many GOOD PLAYERS to have this happen to me, not you people crying cause you want to play CS thief against a burn guard or PU mesmer with 0 condi clear against a 3 man condi comp.

while I’m at it, lets just cap the 15 torment, 15 confusion mesmers, they do the same damage, same idea, but instead of it being 1 condi removed to negate the burst it’s 2 OH LORD JESUS PLEASE NO. Oh I have an Idea too, the 3k/sec ranger dps condi builds, yea, need to be nerfed too.

This will not happen. Put some kitten condi clear on your build and nut up, or get gud and learn to deal with them.

choovanski.5462:

while you’re at it cap direct damage at ~1k per second. it’s been killing me a lot lately.

and cap CCs at once per second.

Darknicrofia.2604:

choovanski.5462:

while you’re at it cap direct damage at ~1k per second. it’s been killing me a lot lately.

and cap CCs at once per second.

the rule is: if you kill me you get banned. it’s simple, intuitive and effortlessly balanced.

In general yes but only with this modification.

A single player, in PVP, can stack max 3 stacks of burning pro target, more will be stack as duration.

In PVE it should stay as it is.

The only reason condi cap is removed is to let the condi classes viable in PVE, if you again set a cap in PVE it has no meaning.

In general yes but only with this modification.

A single player, in PVP, can stack max 3 stacks of burning pro target, more will be stack as duration.

So if two different players are burning the target they can still reach 6 stacks of burning.

In PVE it should stay as it is.

The only reason condi cap is removed is to let the condi classes viable in PVE, if you again set a cap in PVE it has no meaning.

Varonth.5830:

Overtime? My engineer Poison Dart Volley applies 25k damage to a target if it cannot cleanse the conditions.

No, you don’t.

Let’s assume an ideal situation.

Poison Dart volley hits all 5 shots.
All 5 shots must be crits. (about 2% chance of happening)
All 5 critical shots proc the 33% chance for a bleed from Sharpshooter trait (if all crits, about 0.3% chance of happening)
All condition are at 100% duration.

Your all crit PDV would acount for roughly 1500dmg, all crits.
That leaves 23500 damage that needs to occur from conditions.

What conditions are on the target under these ideal circumstances.
5x poison at 12sec duration (150% duration, with chemical rounds trait)
5x bleed at 6sec duration (100% duration capped)
2x burn at 8sec duration (100% duration capped)
Conditions procced from pistol skills, but not inherent to pistol skills, do not benefit from Chemical Rounds

It would take more than 2300 condition damage to get the condition damage to reach that 25k damage from just poison dart volley.
At which point Poison does 10290 damage over 12sec, bleed does 4800damage over 6sec and burn does 7808 over 8sec.

With the pvp set up and it’s limitation you will have around 1700 condition damage (assuming pinpoint trait to convert some precision into condition damage).
It would be possible to reach that 2300 condition damage at 20stacks of might.

Realistically speaking however your conditions will not be at 100% duration as this is impossible to achieve in pvp, you will not get perfect crits and you will not get perfect procs on those perfect crits. Nor will your conditions go uncleansed.

Saying you get 25k damage on just poison dart volley is fictional. Reality is not remotely close to this number.

Why would you lie about this?

When a thief can’t burst down most people within a second or 2, then I will listen about OP burns.

Too many flush their condi clears immediately when they get low burn stacks, it’s about understanding when to clear and other stuff. E.g. DON’T STAND IN THE KITTEN FIRE.

E.g. for guard; the torch burn skill is telegraphed and easy to dodge, judges intervention is predictable, purging flames is noticeable and a fire field, after those there isn’t really much threat from a burn guard. Also for the love of god DON’T CLEANSE AT 1-3 STACKS

Ele is basically a mobility game, don’t stand in the fire and you won’t get burned. Though an ele’s main abilities rely on it’s sustain, and has some decent damage, that will be nerfed soon so just bear with it for now.

Seriously, so many react to a load of condi’s with a “must clear!” reflex without a single thought for what skill they used (they may just reapply a load after you wasted all your cleanses) and what the duration is, as well as what the condi is. Typically skills that layer loads and loads of different condi’s have a low duration.

E.g. why waste a cleanse on 3 vuln stacks and a short duration cripple? People do though, and likely come onto the forums when a burn guard saunters in burning them to death after someone has blown all their CD’s over a staff kitten ing necro.

Slininstien.7546:

So what if burn gives a build spike damage, for builds that rotate around that one condi like burn guard and burn engi, it’s literally 1 condi clear from negating it, kinda like how 1 block or 1 invuln blocks power bursts. No, this will never happen. Cap it at 25 if we need a cap, I get hard countered by too many GOOD PLAYERS to have this happen to me, not you people crying cause you want to play CS thief against a burn guard or PU mesmer with 0 condi clear against a 3 man condi comp.

while I’m at it, lets just cap the 15 torment, 15 confusion mesmers, they do the same damage, same idea, but instead of it being 1 condi removed to negate the burst it’s 2 OH LORD JESUS PLEASE NO. Oh I have an Idea too, the 3k/sec ranger dps condi builds, yea, need to be nerfed too.

This will not happen. Put some kitten condi clear on your build and nut up, or get gud and learn to deal with them.

This…….

If all this QQ in burns results in a low burn cap…you can be kitten $d sure im gonna whip up the QQ on Torment, bleed, confusion blah blah blah caps.

Its the circle of life (or should i say QQing MMO players)

Careful what you wish for.

Burning is out of hand, but this isn’t the way to go about fixing it.

Burning’s fine. Eles are not.
They need to either go bunker and deal zero damage (like all other bunkers) or go glass and have zero surv. Like everyone else.
This master-of-all-trades situation they’re in now is silly.