Guild Wars 2

Hey there guys, I recorded yesterdays first round Trillmatic vs Stream Team.

This is a tM warrior PoV. Unfortunately I forgot to record the first match, that we lost, but I did record the last 2 matches which were incredibly close.

Normally we are a WvW guild exclusively as we aren’t interested in the Conquest game mode. But tourney caught our attention and needless to say, it was also alot of fun and a success even though we lost the bo3.

Hope you’ll enjoy, I found the vent to be hilarious as we normally aren’t this serious :P

Shoutcasters PoV of the match, also includes the first match which i forgot to record
http://www.twitch.tv/bloodytech/b/496321660

thanks for sharing logi. I loved the intro. I also play warrior but I don’t belong in a team so i found it super interesting how the team dynamics completely changes the feel of the game

what hammer is that btw?

That was best match up so far <3 !

funny though how most of participators are wvw guilds

The quality of gameplay in these matches is so low lol… It has no team play whatsoever, it shows no skillful gameplay…. If you are doing the same in WvW says enough about your guild lol

To comment on the warrior PoV: You are running selfish spvp build. No group focused build and/or utilities. Your team mates are about to drop and you are not even trying to use Battle Standard etc etc etc…

The whole idea of this tournament was badly placed in general. If you wanted to execute team fight focused tournament you had to go with 10v10 again on Foefire and actually contact to the WvW guilds that are GvG-ing… Would have actually seen lots of focused play and sth worth seeing. That tourney was nothing but 5v5 game with 2 extra players and PvE ending lol

Kudos to all who put so much effort to organise and shoutcast this tournament but it could’ve been 1,000 times better

Jinx.7258:

The quality of gameplay in these matches is so low lol… It has no team play whatsoever, it shows no skillful gameplay…. If you are doing the same in WvW says enough about your guild lol

To comment on the warrior PoV: You are running selfish spvp build. No group focused build and/or utilities. Your team mates are about to drop and you are not even trying to use Battle Standard etc etc etc…

The whole idea of this tournament was badly placed in general. If you wanted to execute team fight focused tournament you had to go with 10v10 again on Foefire and actually contact to the WvW guilds that are GvG-ing… Would have actually seen lots of focused play and sth worth seeing. That tourney was nothing but 5v5 game with 2 extra players and PvE ending lol

Kudos to all who put so much effort to organise and shoutcast this tournament but it could’ve been 1,000 times better

Not sure how to reply to this. Mainly the first part where you say that theres no skillful gameplay involved. Don’t feel like our guild has anything to prove at this point, i’ve put all my guildies youtube channels in the description box. Almost all of em has footage of 5vX’s. I haven’t recorded such footage yet but if you truly want to find out how skillful we are, we are on the Northern Shiverpeaks server, you can contact Joe.4178 to setup a 5v5.

As for my warrior build, what other setup should i have run? My task was to apply sustained aoe dmg and CC which I believe was doing with the longbow and hammer. I may have made quite some mistakes at certain stages of the fight but i don’t think the builds to blame for that. In order to keep my dmg up I have to stay alive so hence my utilities. As for not using Warbanner, that is simply untrue. I may not have used to every time but thats because I save it for the more crucial members such as Raiden or Pheownix. Can’t just Warbanner everyone like you guys do in your 20v20’s (Yes i saw your YT acc).

I think the tournaments idea is pretty good. It’s exciting and is the closest game mode i’ve seen that had straight up GvG. Don’t think the map is big enough to support a 10v0 on the mid point. Arena Net would have to pick this up and make an actual official game mode out of this with a proper map.

Thanks for watching everyone though

Alas, no new mic for mugi ..

My words werent pointed out only to your team. Pretty much everyone ran their spvp build into large scale fight where these builds become pretty useless. There were no skillful play because almost no teams used their classes as group to focus their abilities and execute proper fight. Not to mention how many idiotic stuff were used… like minion necros lol or Lich Form (if someone is unaware how OP Plague is in big scale fight is his fault… ).
Very few used stealth/veil at the begining of every fight which is crucial. Every WvW player will tell you that. You have no idea how many guilds we’ve anihilated because >1< of their members has failed to use the veil =>their tactics are uncovered and instead of surprising us,we’ve surprised them.
Except for Posi,I didnt see almost no other necro abusing the wells on both downed allies and enemies.
Needless to say how group play works. Simpliest example is: Guard’s greatsword pull followed by Hammerstuns and Wells,all in the same time,on the very same spot.
Almost no use of ANY combo fields+finishers tactics. Such stuff I expected into “GvG” tournament.

Battle Standard should be precasted and is quite good indicator how warrior is being played skillfully. And there’s no such thing as wasting it lol. Not to mention you run w/e classes u can play rather than what you have to. Thieves,Engies and Rangers have no place in big scale pvp whatsoever.

Foefire’s graveyard has enough space for 10v10 eventhough is not that much. And many guilds practice in such enviremont because:
- Its smallER scale than the real GvG and every single player’s mistakes become obvious and crucial for the outcome.
- You can observe and “teach” players!
- Practice of opening/ressing/focusing of dps tactics.

Im still on the point this was nothing but normal tournament with 2 extra players.

Many people believe there’s no skillful play involved in big scale pvp/GvG. Im just gonna say that WvW guilds/GvGers put numerous times more efforts into preparing themselves for a fight than the spvpers. Herding 20 players and expecting every single one of them to do what they are expected to do, in the exact second they should do it… is alot harder than focusing 1 player to burst it down with 5 of you.

@Jinx: So why didn’t any of these wvw guilds with superior tactics sign up then? It would have been cake walk for them right?
If you noticed the rules, you would have seen that the middle point had to be captured in order to be allowed to engage the Lord. Using full team Veil or some other stealth opener would have been a gift to the enemy team because you can’t cap while stealthed = few extra ticks for opponent for free.
Blasting Water Fields or stacking might/swiftness is not used in WvW only. Not sure why you think that.

Jinx.7258:

My words werent pointed out only to your team. Pretty much everyone ran their spvp build into large scale fight where these builds become pretty useless. There were no skillful play because almost no teams used their classes as group to focus their abilities and execute proper fight. Not to mention how many idiotic stuff were used… like minion necros lol or Lich Form (if someone is unaware how OP Plague is in big scale fight is his fault… ).
Very few used stealth/veil at the begining of every fight which is crucial. Every WvW player will tell you that. You have no idea how many guilds we’ve anihilated because >1< of their members has failed to use the veil =>their tactics are uncovered and instead of surprising us,we’ve surprised them.
Except for Posi,I didnt see almost no other necro abusing the wells on both downed allies and enemies.
Needless to say how group play works. Simpliest example is: Guard’s greatsword pull followed by Hammerstuns and Wells,all in the same time,on the very same spot.
Almost no use of ANY combo fields+finishers tactics. Such stuff I expected into “GvG” tournament.

Battle Standard should be precasted and is quite good indicator how warrior is being played skillfully. And there’s no such thing as wasting it lol. Not to mention you run w/e classes u can play rather than what you have to. Thieves,Engies and Rangers have no place in big scale pvp whatsoever.

Foefire’s graveyard has enough space for 10v10 eventhough is not that much. And many guilds practice in such enviremont because:
- Its smallER scale than the real GvG and every single player’s mistakes become obvious and crucial for the outcome.
- You can observe and “teach” players!
- Practice of opening/ressing/focusing of dps tactics.

Im still on the point this was nothing but normal tournament with 2 extra players.

Many people believe there’s no skillful play involved in big scale pvp/GvG. Im just gonna say that WvW guilds/GvGers put numerous times more efforts into preparing themselves for a fight than the spvpers. Herding 20 players and expecting every single one of them to do what they are expected to do, in the exact second they should do it… is alot harder than focusing 1 player to burst it down with 5 of you.

Ait, i’ll bite one more time. Just to make sure, you have watched the video right? Cause it doesn’t seem like you did.

Our necro swapped from plague form to Lich form because Stream Team was stacking 25 might at the start of each engagement. Lich form strips boons. I did not see any minion necroes either. Only Good Fights’ Necro was using Flesh Wurm (he drops it out of the mid point and uses the teleport when hes focused). Our necro did drop wells on downed players, almost everytime it was off cooldown actually. He was a support necro though, he heals us through his wells.

Really Veil? A skill thats on a 90 second cooldown on a shatter mesmer and using it recklessly allows the enemy team to take ticks off of the point if everyone happens to get stealthed by it.
I think you’re misunderstanding the concept of this tourney. You are literally comparing a 20v20 WvW GvG to a 6v6 sPvP GvG where theres a secondary objective (i.e killing the lord to win the game aswell as capping mid point to be eligible).

The more players you bring into a GvG the less dependant a fight will be on individual skill. It is simply a fact. Others can correct your mistakes. Hence why I wouldn’t particularly call every player in a 20v20 “skillful”. Aslong as you stick to your commander, who calls the shots for you, you’ll do ok. This isn’t a bash against larger scale GvG, but this is just how I think of it.

As for the combofields; it’s simply inefficient in these kinds of smaller skirmishes. To pull of a good sequence of combofields you’d have to stack. Stacking with only 6 players will kill you. the AoE cap is 5, you should know this, so almost our entire group would suffer under the enemy’s AoE if we had stacked. Imperial Army did this when they fought Good Fights, and well they blew up in under 5 seconds. The only combofields that we had were area weakness and area might anyways. I drop Combustive shot regularly and Area Might it when I can. But it’s not a big deal as we had a staff guardian empowering us regularly.

As for the warbanner thing, meh I suppose you are correct that i could anticipate someone going down and precast warbanner.

I get that you are VOTF and they are “the best 20v20 GvG guild” but I don’t think that entitles you to decide what GvG is. You’re effectively comparing apples to oranges.

roka.5231:

@Jinx: So why didn’t any of these wvw guilds with superior tactics sign up then? It would have been cake walk for them right?
If you noticed the rules, you would have seen that the middle point had to be captured in order to be allowed to engage the Lord. Using full team Veil or some other stealth opener would have been a gift to the enemy team because you can’t cap while stealthed = few extra ticks for opponent for free.
Blasting Water Fields or stacking might/swiftness is not used in WvW only. Not sure why you think that.

None signed because the news about this tournament was poorly spread. And because most of the WvW guilds are gone and out of the competitive gameplay due to many reasons I wont list now.

I am aware of the rules. Some teams used Thieve’s steath mechanics and didnt have problems capping… The guard can go directly into the fight…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgl35sI0_4
See how the fight opens in this video: First player is down in the FIRST 2 seconds of the fight.

Im talking about actual organised blasting – either on the go or on a regroup. None of these were used to its proper extend. Not to mention the amount of staff eles we saw was redicolous….

Jinx.7258:

My words werent pointed out only to your team. Pretty much everyone ran their spvp build into large scale fight where these builds become pretty useless. There were no skillful play because almost no teams used their classes as group to focus their abilities and execute proper fight. Not to mention how many idiotic stuff were used… like minion necros lol or Lich Form (if someone is unaware how OP Plague is in big scale fight is his fault… ).

From what I understand the reason the tournament only ran 6 people per side is because GvG’s look like unintelligible particle effect vomit soon past that number. Have you ever observed a large scale GvG? Now can you imagine trying to shoutcast that? Running a spvp build in a 6v6 fight sounds perfectly viable to me, especially since the game is balanced around a 5v5 format. I would also disagree that MM necro and Lich Form are idiotic; one serves the purpose congesting the point with AI while providing solid dps/bunkering and the other provides a huge chunk of raw DPS. Plague Form is a solid necro elite but so are the others.

Very few used stealth/veil at the begining of every fight which is crucial. Every WvW player will tell you that. You have no idea how many guilds we’ve anihilated because >1< of their members has failed to use the veil =>their tactics are uncovered and instead of surprising us,we’ve surprised them.
Except for Posi,I didnt see almost no other necro abusing the wells on both downed allies and enemies.

I’ll preface this by saying I only watched tM v Stream Team (Scarecrow’s my guild leader) but in case you didn’t notice both teams sent out someone to contest the point initially while the rest stealthed. Having a shatter mesmer sacrifice a utility slot for veil just for an opening seems to be a poor idea to me. Once again having only watched tM and Stream Team you would have seen that tM was running a support necro, and that he did in fact drop wells on both downed allies and enemies.

Jinx.7258:

Needless to say how group play works. Simpliest example is: Guard’s greatsword pull followed by Hammerstuns and Wells,all in the same time,on the very same spot.
Almost no use of ANY combo fields+finishers tactics. Such stuff I expected into “GvG” tournament.

Combo fields and finishers are more difficult to perform and to see as a viewer due to fighting over a single capture point. As for group play, I’d say there was plenty of it. Listen to the communication in Scarlet’s video, they call out who to focus/when the were low or downed/etc.

You seem to be confused as to what this tournament was, GvG in GW1 was completely different than the current GvG commonly practiced in WvW. This tournament was spiritually similar to GW1’s GvG.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching you guys play Scarlet, tM’s got some of the best roamers I’ve ever fought against/with. Hopefully this game mode will be fleshed out and made official, I am in support of it.

Jinx.7258:

I am aware of the rules. Some teams used Thieve’s steath mechanics and didnt have problems capping… The guard can go directly into the fight…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgl35sI0_4
See how the fight opens in this video: First player is down in the FIRST 2 seconds of the fight.

1st: In your previous post you said that even 1 player failing the Veil makes a huge difference in WvW. So you were talking about full team stealth like you do in WvW. Don’t change your mind now. In my post i said FULL team veil is a nono.

2nd: You said stealth openers were not used and now you link me to a video where stealth opener WAS used? Make up your mind. And it was used like players always use it in spvp = not every member of the team is stealthed.

Again… My words are NOT only to your team. Neither for NA only…

Count with me: Plague #2 is blind,2-3 enemy players blinded equals how many of allies missed? …for 20 seconds…. add the aoe poison too…. Should we add the “extra” HP you get from it. Being a stunbreaker.
Lich Form’s cast is slow and easily blockable and kitable = useless. One of the many reasons powe necros to suck in small scale…due to inappropriate elite skill…

Veil or any other form of stealth can be used as bailing out tactic or right b4 regrouping. And yes,it does worth its cooldown because it has the element of surprise, crucial to the first engagement.

Adding more players deminishes everyone’s skillfull play? Its both true and false. It adds more space to mitigate each mistakes but at top ladder fights such mistakes become obvious and get you dead. And if someone is late/early with field or blast,yes it does matter how you do it/skilled you are.

Because you are a warrior and doesnt feel the need of being aoe healed doesnt mean it aint needed lol. Regular regroups give not only heals….
Its viable tactic to engage enemies when they regroup. And players know it so they use it. Its viable counter is to do it REAL fast and dodge if you are getting engaged.
And again,in TEAM fights regroups and boons sharing/spreading and the play with combo fields is what distinguishes the good from the bad.

The goal of the tournament was to withness TEAM/GROUP fights on either mid node or near the Lord. So thus was entitled “GvG” tournament. And so I listed quite many reasons why this tournament didnt include almost any group play… which is so common and vital in 20v20,10v10/actual GvG fights.

Im not entitling anything in considering of anything else.

roka.5231:

Jinx.7258:

I am aware of the rules. Some teams used Thieve’s steath mechanics and didnt have problems capping… The guard can go directly into the fight…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgl35sI0_4
See how the fight opens in this video: First player is down in the FIRST 2 seconds of the fight.

1st: In your previous post you said that even 1 player failing the Veil makes a huge difference in WvW. So you were talking about full team stealth like you do in WvW. Don’t change your mind now. In my post i said FULL team veil is a nono.

2nd: You said stealth openers were not used and now you link me to a video where stealth opener WAS used? Make up your mind. And it was used like players always use it in spvp = not every member of the team is stealthed.

I gave an example where 1 player costs the wipe of whole guild… in WvW. I also said we saw >almost< no such play. Also backed up my words with examples where players actually did it.

Twisting my words or not understanding them wont change anything… inb4 bad english.

WamSolf.5021:

Combo fields and finishers are more difficult to perform and to see as a viewer due to fighting over a single capture point. As for group play, I’d say there was plenty of it. Listen to the communication in Scarlet’s video, they call out who to focus/when the were low or downed/etc.

So if sth is difficult lets not do it? Calling who to focus aint skillful group gameplay lol.

So you asked quite many questions there, so I got one for you. Have you ever listened to a wvw guild video with their ts on? Everything is synced AND announced – pulls,stuns, heals,banners, bombing (not the granade one),stability….

Jinx.7258:

And again,in TEAM fights regroups and boons sharing/spreading and the play with combo fields is what distinguishes the good from the bad.

I’m not sure why you are so fixed on giving 20vs20 type of tactics in a thread for 6vs6 tournament? AoE caps at 5 so in 20man team you have strength in numbers with the heals and blasts. If you group up in 6vs6 like that you will be AoE nuked and the pressure is just too much to blast heal through.
In smaller scale fights spreading can be more beneficial than clustering up.

I’m not trying to be rude or anything, but comparing/criticizing the tactics between 20vs20 and 6vs6 is just not possible.

Jinx.7258:

So you asked quite many questions there, so I got one for you. Have you ever listened to a wvw guild video with their ts on? Everything is synced AND announced – pulls,stuns, heals,banners, bombing (not the granade one),stability….

I’ve participated in Gzergs before yes, while they can be fun to experience I don’t find watching them enjoyable. You have to consider who’s point of view you are watching from. It is much easier to understand what is going on in a fight like that from a participants view, someone shout casting a fight would not be privy to the guilds voice comms. All you see is two blobs smashing into each other people (maybe) downing, those remaining regrouping & healing before they smash into each other again. there really isn’t much someone spectating can see besides that.

Anyways this is going way off topic, I’m sure you will be able to find likewise discussions and like minded people in the WvW section of the forums. I am sorry you found the GvG tournament disappointing.

alright jinx, we’ll see you in the next tourney then.

roka.5231:

I’m not sure why you are so fixed on giving 20vs20 type of tactics in a thread for 6vs6 tournament? AoE caps at 5 so in 20man team you have strength in numbers with the heals and blasts. If you group up in 6vs6 like that you will be AoE nuked and the pressure is just too much to blast heal through.
In smaller scale fights spreading can be more beneficial than clustering up.

I’m not trying to be rude or anything, but comparing/criticizing the tactics between 20vs20 and 6vs6 is just not possible.

Those 20 men are not bunched up lol,everyone has a role and takes specific place/spot in the fight.Those you pointed are the melee train which are not more than 40% of those 20 (varying on the guild’s tactics)

You wont be bunched up in this 6v6 either,you need ~2 seconds of regroup every 10-15 seconds if u need to do it at all…

I’ve already explained why Im comparing them… multiple times.

Just the need to explain you that says enough what u know about group/team and big scale fights. No offense.

WamSolf.5021:

I’ve participated in Gzergs before yes, while they can be fun to experience I don’t find watching them enjoyable. You have to consider who’s point of view you are watching from. It is much easier to understand what is going on in a fight like that from a participants view, someone shout casting a fight would not be privy to the guilds voice comms. All you see is two blobs smashing into each other people (maybe) downing, those remaining regrouping & healing before they smash into each other again. there really isn’t much someone spectating can see besides that.

Anyways this is going way off topic, I’m sure you will be able to find likewise discussions and like minded people in the WvW section of the forums. I am sorry you found the GvG tournament disappointing.

Zerg is: random players gathered cluelessly fighting others of same type. Which differs quite alot from actual organised wvw raid… You defining it like that and explaining how GvG looks says enough about your knowledge on this part of the game

GvGs shoutcast is being done by Ogro on his YT channel eventhough he’s doing it trough videos. And everyone who’s aware of how GvG works can tell you AND explain to you whats going on… crystal clearly.

Sorry guys but you dont seem to understand the “group play” concept in the game.

I have no team,nor time to practice for anything competitive right now. Neither have or want to prove something. I’ve already done that when I had the time and wanted to…

Jinx.7258:

Just the need to explain you that says enough what u know about group/team and big scale fights. No offense.

None taken, but this clearly works both ways

Jinx.7258:

Neither have or want to prove something. I’ve already done that when I had the time and wanted to…

You clearly wanted to prove something(prove a point?) when you came to this thread bashing people who participated in the tournament. For this game type you and your superior knowledge has yet to prove anything. Actions speak louder than words.

from the wiki:

“Guild versus Guild, also known as GvG or Guild Battle, is a strategic form of PvP which matches two teams of eight players from different guilds against each other in the Guild Halls. The core objective of the combat is to kill the opposition’s NPC Guild Lord before the opposition does the same to your Guild Lord. "

stop bringing your 20v20 zerg bullkitten into the pvp forums
this tournament was bout GvG – so move on

Jinx.7258

Just throwing it out there, top GvG guilds came to PvP and get destroyed, out 4-6 games they could only get around 3 kills :/

yes, build might be different, strats might be different but player skill is also different.. if you watch the game, every player, even tho they didnt stack or waited to be told to dodge.. they were all able to pull plays that would instantly change the tie of a battle. GvG WvW might “look” more organized because of the stacking but doesnt mean its better or more effective.

Aint talking about GW1. And because you’ve never experienced it and have no clue about it,doesnt mean it aint true. Its that simple.

google.3709:

Jinx.7258

Just throwing it out there, top GvG guilds came to PvP and get destroyed, out 4-6 games they could only get around 3 kills :/

the top guilds disbanded after the last round of the gvg scene… which was ~2 months ago. Words into thin air.

And again you twist my words. For the last time: The mechanics used in GvG/WvW battle are way more group/team focused and are suitable for this tournament we are commenting here. Im saying we saw ALMOST none of them in that tournament. This tournament was nothing but 5v5 with 2 extra players… playing the very same way they play in the normal comeptition. This said,the title and the goal of the tournament were way out of sight and quite inappropriate.

There’s a reason why I dont comment on forums… and that is becuause normal,competitive players wouldnt stay here but be in-game and play. Forums are haunted by typical morons and cry babies that have neither knowledge about the game or want to have actual discussion. Not to mention the stubborn idiocy going on and not wanting to realise the obvious…. even if slapped in the face.

This said, Im done with this. Who got it,got it. Cant care more about ppl that havent step foot in WvW and never perticipated in anything GROUP or TEAM PLAY organised be 6v6 or 20v20. People will stay clueless even if you pour the words into their heads with buckets.

oops, meant to put a while back back when things were heated between GvG and PvP, and thats basically how the dispute was ended. many GvG guilds fought vs PvP pugs and won none. so idk :/

all im saying is, you can’t judge the players so harsh, it might not look as pretty as stacking while spamming AoE on a the target. but if you sit back and pay attention to the game, you will see the personal skills and individual plays of the which had a huge impact on the over all battle.

Jinx.7258:

Not to mention the stubborn idiocy going on and not wanting to realise the obvious…. even if slapped in the face.

Oh the irony

sPvP is still about team play, it’s just that tactics and builds are set up around small scale fighting (5 or less players), rather than large scale (10 or more players). It’s just a completely different setting. Anyone that tried to use WvW tactics in a 6v6 are just going to get destroyed by a team of sPvP players using small scale strategies and builds. For example, things like Veil and Time Warp, which are used heavily in WvW, are pretty bad here and almost never used. “Regrouping” is just another term for “dying to nades”, etc. Tuning in to a 6v6 and expecting it to play like a 15v15 is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

That being said, there is still tons of skill required for small scale fighting. It’s just that the skill is much more about individual player ability and how to apply that in a team fight rather than army-level coordination between a large number of people. It’s like comparing a navy seal squadron to an army company. Totally different skill sets, but both require skill to execute properly.

Hey Just FYI
except Good Fights and a few others.
Most of rest are WvWers / WvW guild …

so where were the almighty spvper ? :P

Liza.2758:

Hey Just FYI
except Good Fights and a few others.
Most of rest are WvWers / WvW guild …

so where were the almighty spvper ? :P

Think a roster mix up caused another na spvp team to be left out.