Guild Wars 2

Edit: +4!

Edit 2: (didn’t expect this thread to get gravedug but I’m a lot more familiar with how the matchmaking works, so I figured I’d explain it) Pretty much, not enough high-rating people play and/or people do not play on their higher-rated accounts, leading to games like (1900 + 1900 + 1500 + 1500 + 1500) vs a similar comp. As such, even when you’re going against a similar comp (1900 + 1900 + 1500 + 1500 + 1500), and the game is a struggle because the enemy team has two good players as well, you’re only up to win something like +7 while potentially losing like -18.

I get 13 for win, 17 for loss. Someone says it has something to do with how much you contributed to the match…but when I pull 3-4 of the different award things I still get 13 on a win. Some people get over 200 for a win… why… only Anet knows.

Thats because you where supposed to win that match and supposed to lose the other, if you win/lose a match you aren’t supposed to win/lose you gain/lose way more

Tiefsee.3647:

Thats because you where supposed to win that match and supposed to lose the other, if you win/lose a match you aren’t supposed to win/lose you gain/lose way more

I’m not sure if it’s just a coincidence that there was a team MMR difference as such for 10 games in a row, but my last 5 wins have all been +9 or +10, and my last 5 losses were all -13 to -15.

I think it has something to do with your hidden MMR and visual rating. I get less and less rating with which win (in plat atm), it went so far 40-37-32-26-20 for each win, i assume i gonna get like 14 on next lol. I lose around 40 per loss. My friend is getting around 10 per win lol.

In OW there is similar… effect. If you climbed higher than your actual hidden MMR you will get abysmal amount of SR (skill rating) and will lose a lot until your MMr catches up (if you continue to win).

Link.1049:

I get 13 for win, 17 for loss. Someone says it has something to do with how much you contributed to the match…but when I pull 3-4 of the different award things I still get 13 on a win. Some people get over 200 for a win… why… only Anet knows.

Devs said this is false. I was misinformed on this at the start as well.

Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.

Crowley.8761:

Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.

To be fair, it is possible to carry in GW2, especially if you duoq. Try out OW (6v6) ranked – the way heroes and matches are designed you can be top player and still can’t carry in bronze there. GW2 is bit different story due to class design (CC, escapes, invuls etc. give you necessary time) – i bet Zan can win 1v4 in low ratings w/o breaking a sweat. Last seasons i could win 1v3 encounters as a thief in lower divisions. Last season i effectively won 1v4 match because 4 ppl on my team were afk all match on one point and never left it.

Whether player should be constantly forced to “hardcarry” to climb is different issue.

Your MMR a.k.a. Skill Rating has been set already from last seasons. If you are new player, You don’t have rating set to your account yet.

Us others, too bad you are stuck! Because I get 10 points from win, meaning I need to win 50 games in a row to get to legendary, while some players played 10 games, won 9 of them and got to lege….

My MMR is around 1500, so I can climb from there only by grinding hours and hours (WAIT! Didn’t players want to get rid of it?)

Only option is to do new account, grind to lvl 20, going to ranked, win those 10 games and vòila! You are legendary. Good job! Now you just play dailies and leave PvP for good. Try it. I guarantee you don’t have to play for hours just to catch your friends rating.

I heard MMR was reset for this season.

For reference, see this.
Reddit – My Friend Who Is New To PVP Got Placed In Top 100

Cynz.9437:

Crowley.8761:

Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.

To be fair, it is possible to carry in GW2, especially if you duoq. Try out OW (6v6) ranked – the way heroes and matches are designed you can be top player and still can’t carry in bronze there. GW2 is bit different story due to class design (CC, escapes, invuls etc. give you necessary time) – i bet Zan can win 1v4 in low ratings w/o breaking a sweat. Last seasons i could win 1v3 encounters as a thief in lower divisions. Last season i effectively won 1v4 match because 4 ppl on my team were afk all match on one point and never left it.

Whether player should be constantly forced to “hardcarry” to climb is different issue.

You can carry against bad players. I can 1:3 with my ele against rookies quite easy and will even down them.
But as soon as you oponents can play their class and know how to rotate you can´t carry. You win a duel if you are better but you won´t survive 1:2 and you won´t win the 2:2 with the bad player at your side, that dies on cleave or is down in 2 seconds after a DH pull. So if the oposing team has 5 average and you have 3 average one god and on victim, the team with the bad one is mostly doomed to loose even with total rating the same or slightly better.

Wolfric.9380:

Cynz.9437:

Crowley.8761:

Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.

To be fair, it is possible to carry in GW2, especially if you duoq. Try out OW (6v6) ranked – the way heroes and matches are designed you can be top player and still can’t carry in bronze there. GW2 is bit different story due to class design (CC, escapes, invuls etc. give you necessary time) – i bet Zan can win 1v4 in low ratings w/o breaking a sweat. Last seasons i could win 1v3 encounters as a thief in lower divisions. Last season i effectively won 1v4 match because 4 ppl on my team were afk all match on one point and never left it.

Whether player should be constantly forced to “hardcarry” to climb is different issue.

You can carry against bad players. I can 1:3 with my ele against rookies quite easy and will even down them.
But as soon as you oponents can play their class and know how to rotate you can´t carry. You win a duel if you are better but you won´t survive 1:2 and you won´t win the 2:2 with the bad player at your side, that dies on cleave or is down in 2 seconds after a DH pull. So if the oposing team has 5 average and you have 3 average one god and on victim, the team with the bad one is mostly doomed to loose even with total rating the same or slightly better.

As i said, it is different story why you should be forced to hard carry bad players to be able to climb.

What concerns me is that exactly this setup is common and when the already doomed team is higher in MMR a loss punishes even more for the system expecting them to win.

Like
Red: 6-5-5-5-4
Blue: 8-6-5-5-2

Blue is higher in total but will loose since it´s assumed the 5 can rotate and handle their class but the 2 just feeds points. The 8 also can´t win a 1:2.

But it´s a bit grey theory i don´t know exactly if the MM does this. I fear it does from how the matches somtimes feel. On tuesday my win´s felt like my team knew how to rotate and 1-2 oponentes were very good but two other acted like headless chickens. We totaly outplayed them on side nodes even with loosing most mid fights winning 200+

Nuka.6701:

I heard MMR was reset for this season.

For reference, see this.
Reddit – My Friend Who Is New To PVP Got Placed In Top 100

It was soft reset not a full reset so everyone was put within a range of +/- 1200

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Nuka.6701:

I heard MMR was reset for this season.

For reference, see this.
Reddit – My Friend Who Is New To PVP Got Placed In Top 100

It was soft reset not a full reset so everyone was put within a range of +/- 1200

No they wasn’t. Or do you mean with +- you mean 1000? Because after 10 first matches (7 wins on me) I got rating 1347 while couple players got +1900 rating with 9 wins, so thats not “soft reset” or reset at all. Im thinking if any of ESL players lost all 10 matches they still got over 1900 rating at start. So Anet did this system all wrong. They should gave all players new rating ~1500 and then those 10 matches should have implement how your rating would have gone from there.

If you had 5W 5L, you would had 1500 rating, if you won all 10, you had ~2000 rating and if you lost all you had ~ 1000 rating. And then your rating would go up or down after you play. To set where you belong. Not everyone deserves to be legendary, but what if one player has what it takes to be legendary, but his teammates has to be carried in order to that one player to get to legendary? That’s not fair either. Even ESL players cant carry 100% of the time.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Evan would you be able to let me know my rating prior to the reset? For this account BlaqueFyre.5678

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

So if I understand that right ( No Snark meant just trying to see if I got it ) If this is your first season you would begin at (0 + 1200) * 0.5 which would be 600. . .is that correct?

And then you would do your placement matches and it would move you in to wherever.

Bardly.2571:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

So if I understand that right ( No Snark meant just trying to see if I got it ) If this is your first season you would begin at (0 + 1200) * 0.5 which would be 600. . .is that correct?

And then you would do your placement matches and it would move you in to wherever.

You never start out 0 in any competitive game ever. You can set the bounds (it’s 0 and 2400 for this game) and everyone starts out at the middle, 1200 (correct me if I’m wrong).

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

From what I understood, after the placement, closer you are to you real mmr, harder is to move up.

So in this guy case, what should be his expectation for this season? He has a very solid win/rate and how he can move up more if he basically lose more points for losing than he wins? He should have some monster win/rate like 70/30 or 80/20 in solo?

I mean how this can promote the player improving? It sounds like you’re stuck in a limited area and you can’t really move a lot from there. Your contribution to the team is always 1/5, so I really dunno how it worth try to put maximal effort to play every game at 110% and try like crazy.

I’m interested because with my Main account I’ve a similar situation and in this area it seems super hard to move up.

And btw I’ve the feeling that the previous mmr and these 10 games placement have a too much importance about your entire season experience, about chance to move up.

And high ranked people will exploit this playing as little as possible if they already have super high position, minimum is 30 games for the entire season, I’m pretty sure many people in top50-100 will play the minimum.

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

Many players have their mmr super high because played in a team and considering this value for a solo/duo queue is not a good idea imho

BTW can you answer to my other reply?

Thx

What I want to know is why my rating gain keeps dropping as my win streak continues.

I went from gaining 33 to 28 to 18 to now 16…still on that win streak – that’s not 4 games btw; that’s actually incremental drop I’ve noticed over the course of 10 game winstreak. What a joke!!!

As if my initial 10 games wasn’t kitten enough as is to put me in a far lower rating than I know I belong in, thanks to dcs and rage afkers/throwers.

You cannot use a simple win/loss to determine rating for a game like GW2. This isn’t a god kitten MOBA like DotA2 where you can carry people that are utter garbage or clearly throwing a game. Not to mention the balance team is still doing a horrific job – but that’s another story.

Silverbolt.2301:

What I want to know is why my rating gain keeps dropping as my win streak continues.

I went from gaining 33 to 28 to 18 to now 16…still on that win streak – that’s not 4 games btw; that’s actually incremental drop I’ve noticed over the course of 10 game winstreak. What a joke!!!

As if my initial 10 games wasn’t kitten enough as is to put me in a far lower rating than I know I belong in, thanks to dcs and rage afkers/throwers.

You cannot use a simple win/loss to determine rating for a game like GW2. This isn’t a god kitten MOBA like DotA2 where you can carry people that are utter garbage or clearly throwing a game. Not to mention the balance team is still doing a horrific job – but that’s another story.

If you look at the math behind it:
1) The more matches you play, your (and others) volatility will go down. That means you will bump less with each win/loss.
2) If you are beating teams you should win against you will get less of a bump, and if you lose to teams you should beat you will get more of a bump down.
3) Odds are they are capping the number of players in the upper tiers, so as the season goes on, the total number of players ranked will be increasing. Many of the top tier players will have alt accounts so it will get harder and harder to advance as the player pool increases.

As for carrying, a top tier player can affect the outcome on two nodes by switching out once he has tipped the scales enough to help his team.

onevsone.2098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

Many players have their mmr super high because played in a team and considering this value for a solo/duo queue is not a good idea imho

BTW can you answer to my other reply?

Thx

Allowing rating that was acquired when you A.) Couldn’t Loose Rating for Losses and B.) Could team up and be dragged through matches with higher skilled buddies seems like a less than stellar way to do it?

If MMR really would sort everything out over time why wouldn’t the hard reset work.

And, I really would like to see the numbers on how many wins in a row (or wins in general) it would take for someone to move from the middle of Bronze to silver considering after about 40 matches your plus and minus ratio are to the point where you get just about +15 -15 on your win and loss.

I really would like to understand how that would work. For those who would say “Get Good” I challenge you to bring your best to matchmaking in Bronze and let me know how many games you can win in a row down there. Considering that as soon as I start a streak of wins my numbers start shrinking and DONT seem to climb even after losses. . .either I’m the worst player in the game (possible maybe?) or something isn’t right.

Nuka.6701:

With 60%+ winrate over 70 games, doesn’t feel right.

EDIT: Just got a +7!

EDIT #2: +4!!

I’m confused, you want Legendary with a 60%+ win rate?

Bardly.2571:

onevsone.2098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

Many players have their mmr super high because played in a team and considering this value for a solo/duo queue is not a good idea imho

BTW can you answer to my other reply?

Thx

Allowing rating that was acquired when you A.) Couldn’t Loose Rating for Losses and B.) Could team up and be dragged through matches with higher skilled buddies seems like a less than stellar way to do it?

If MMR really would sort everything out over time why wouldn’t the hard reset work.

And, I really would like to see the numbers on how many wins in a row (or wins in general) it would take for someone to move from the middle of Bronze to silver considering after about 40 matches your plus and minus ratio are to the point where you get just about +15 -15 on your win and loss.

I really would like to understand how that would work. For those who would say “Get Good” I challenge you to bring your best to matchmaking in Bronze and let me know how many games you can win in a row down there. Considering that as soon as I start a streak of wins my numbers start shrinking and DONT seem to climb even after losses. . .either I’m the worst player in the game (possible maybe?) or something isn’t right.

Your Mmr was affected by losses with the old system pips did not equal mmr…..

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Thanks for proving that the grind continues this season as well. Splendid.

Want to also prove that 10 placement games are excessive and the initial 3-4 are the only ones that have the biggest impact?

How about the Stronghold win abuse last seasons?

Faux Play.6104:

Silverbolt.2301:

What I want to know is why my rating gain keeps dropping as my win streak continues.

I went from gaining 33 to 28 to 18 to now 16…still on that win streak – that’s not 4 games btw; that’s actually incremental drop I’ve noticed over the course of 10 game winstreak. What a joke!!!

As if my initial 10 games wasn’t kitten enough as is to put me in a far lower rating than I know I belong in, thanks to dcs and rage afkers/throwers.

You cannot use a simple win/loss to determine rating for a game like GW2. This isn’t a god kitten MOBA like DotA2 where you can carry people that are utter garbage or clearly throwing a game. Not to mention the balance team is still doing a horrific job – but that’s another story.

If you look at the math behind it:
1) The more matches you play, your (and others) volatility will go down. That means you will bump less with each win/loss.
2) If you are beating teams you should win against you will get less of a bump, and if you lose to teams you should beat you will get more of a bump down.
3) Odds are they are capping the number of players in the upper tiers, so as the season goes on, the total number of players ranked will be increasing. Many of the top tier players will have alt accounts so it will get harder and harder to advance as the player pool increases.

As for carrying, a top tier player can affect the outcome on two nodes by switching out once he has tipped the scales enough to help his team.

A ‘top tier player’ cannot win in the situation of a (or duo) rage feeder/afker/dcer after first skirmish. Stop trying to make up such a stupid argument that has no basis.

Silverbolt.2301:

Faux Play.6104:

Silverbolt.2301:

What I want to know is why my rating gain keeps dropping as my win streak continues.

I went from gaining 33 to 28 to 18 to now 16…still on that win streak – that’s not 4 games btw; that’s actually incremental drop I’ve noticed over the course of 10 game winstreak. What a joke!!!

As if my initial 10 games wasn’t kitten enough as is to put me in a far lower rating than I know I belong in, thanks to dcs and rage afkers/throwers.

You cannot use a simple win/loss to determine rating for a game like GW2. This isn’t a god kitten MOBA like DotA2 where you can carry people that are utter garbage or clearly throwing a game. Not to mention the balance team is still doing a horrific job – but that’s another story.

If you look at the math behind it:
1) The more matches you play, your (and others) volatility will go down. That means you will bump less with each win/loss.
2) If you are beating teams you should win against you will get less of a bump, and if you lose to teams you should beat you will get more of a bump down.
3) Odds are they are capping the number of players in the upper tiers, so as the season goes on, the total number of players ranked will be increasing. Many of the top tier players will have alt accounts so it will get harder and harder to advance as the player pool increases.

As for carrying, a top tier player can affect the outcome on two nodes by switching out once he has tipped the scales enough to help his team.

A ‘top tier player’ cannot win in the situation of a (or duo) rage feeder/afker/dcer after first skirmish. Stop trying to make up such a stupid argument that has no basis.

I have won matches 4v5 and with a feeder on my team. I am no where near a top tier player. If you are better than your pier group you will raise your ratings. Yes you will get some matches you can’t win, but with no cap on dropping levels the baddies will sink faster.

Faux Play.6104:

I have won matches 4v5 and with a feeder on my team. I am no where near a top tier player. If you are better than your pier group you will raise your ratings. Yes you will get some matches you can’t win, but with no cap on dropping levels the baddies will sink faster.

Oh, good to know that you can contradict yourself.

Silverbolt.2301:

Faux Play.6104:

I have won matches 4v5 and with a feeder on my team. I am no where near a top tier player. If you are better than your pier group you will raise your ratings. Yes you will get some matches you can’t win, but with no cap on dropping levels the baddies will sink faster.

Oh, good to know that you can contradict yourself.

how did I contradict myself? If I can win matches with an afk or feeder a top tier player that got place at my level should be able to too.

Hi team,
A few points of consideration for my personal experience.
1. I did not play Season 4, so, it sounds like MMR = (0+1200)*.5= 600 + 10 placements.

2. I was Ruby/Diamond bouncer in S1, and didn’t do much in other seasons due to frustrations often mentioned and recently addresses in some ways.

3. Those 10 game results would have had to have a big impact for first few games. Given most players were said to be dropping into Silver, this would mean a placement match is worth ~50 pts?

4. I have played over 300 games

5. I play a Ele-healer, therefore carrying is unlikely. I am with the group, so, if they group cannot out dps or be on the right points, decap etc, its unreasonable for me as healer to leave the group to do it

6. After 300 games I am seeing as low as +/-5 pts and max +/-20pts, but average is +/-9 to 14 pts. Is this feel right?

7. There was also a week where i was 4 pts from Gold T2 for 2 weeks, but dropped in 2 days to silver T2??? after a loosing streak? Does that sound right with that many games played?

8. I had 1 Video Card crash (never happened before to me), hard reboot got back on immediately, helped the team to come back and win, but they all got a Win, and +16pts, I got -19points! Does that feel right?

9. I have an alt account and have a friend who has an alt account. We created them raw this season so they had no previous MMR. Both of us got to 15-5..in different win/loss scenarios…his present SR is >1500, mine is 1090…Does that sound right?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

But Evan… getting a new pvp system without a full or hard mmr reset just won’t work either. Before this season you could play as a full team and now you just can’t. Which simply means that some people do not have the mmr that they actually SHOULD have.

Glael.7643:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

But Evan… getting a new pvp system without a full or hard mmr reset just won’t work either. Before this season you could play as a full team and now you just can’t. Which simply means that some people do not have the mmr that they actually SHOULD have.

Between the soft reset and the season that gets corrected, if you do a hard reset it means a much greater group of people will have at the start an MMR they shouldnt have.

Lucius.2140:

Glael.7643:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

But Evan… getting a new pvp system without a full or hard mmr reset just won’t work either. Before this season you could play as a full team and now you just can’t. Which simply means that some people do not have the mmr that they actually SHOULD have.

Between the soft reset and the season that gets corrected, if you do a hard reset it means a much greater group of people will have at the start an MMR they shouldnt have.

I’m always confused by the earlier, because regardless of how many people start the season with the wrong MMR, the only people who keep the wrong MMR are people who don’t play PvP at all.

If you play, the error is corrected. If you don’t play it really doesn’t matter if you MMR is wrong, because you, y’know, don’t play. So shrug

So, yeah, it’s nice to have a soft reset to reduce the error initially on the assumption that people are approximately as good each season as they were in the last, but it’s also not even that important to start at the “right” MMR anyway!

This is not the point. The system means two people with the same skill can need 10 or 500 matches to get to their MMR and some might give up or never be able to play that much games in a season. For people with bad luck it becomes grinding while for others it´s easy to enjoy their right position from start and both have the same skill.

Wolfric.9380:

This is not the point. The system means two people with the same skill can need 10 or 500 matches to get to their MMR and some might give up or never be able to play that much games in a season. For people with bad luck it becomes grinding while for others it´s easy to enjoy their right position from start and both have the same skill.

If it takes 500 matches to get your MMR settled, something is dramatically wrong.

…but, really, I think that the issue is that you don’t understand how quickly Glicko-2 MMR converges on a solution. The number of placement matches, 10, wasn’t actually picked at random, y’know?

If you wanted to take a guess, guess how many matches it will take on average before you are in the right ballpark of MMR? I’ll wait … and done. Did you guess 10? I certainly hope so.

It’s also notable that 89 matches is the “magic number” for convergence in a 5v5 competition. So, 500 is only about 5 or 6 times an overestimate.

Finally, do you really think you would converge more quickly if everyone started at MMR 350, full stop? Alternately, do you have some other proposal for what might reduce the time to accuracy as a starting point?

The only point I agree with you on is that, yes, some players may not continue to play if they feel their MMR does not accurately reflect their skill. We have already seen plenty of support for that in people here, talking about “ELO Hell”, etc, because they were used to a system that did not reflect skill, and now it does … they don’t get the rating they “deserve”.