Guild Wars 2

Morwath.9817:

Shockwave.1230:

They aren’t doing anything wrong by queuing with low tiers, they are just trying to play the game in the competitive queue. The system takes that completely away from some people as it currently exists if you don’t take low queue players.

So?
-> Is system flawed? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing flaws in system? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing for personal gains? Check: Yes.
-> Do other players are disadvantaged because of abusing? Check: Yes.
-> Is abusing/exploiting against Code of Conduct? Check: Yes.

How are they abusing the TOS specifically?

morrolan.9608:

Morwath.9817:

Shockwave.1230:

They aren’t doing anything wrong by queuing with low tiers, they are just trying to play the game in the competitive queue. The system takes that completely away from some people as it currently exists if you don’t take low queue players.

So?
-> Is system flawed? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing flaws in system? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing for personal gains? Check: Yes.
-> Do other players are disadvantaged because of abusing? Check: Yes.
-> Is abusing/exploiting against Code of Conduct? Check: Yes.

How are they abusing the TOS specifically?

TOS?

Terms of Service, replace it with Code of Conduct.

So the majority of players consists of solo queuers. When they created a pre-made of 4 with the last one a lower rank to be able to farm faster their progression and now to actually have a queue, they obliterated the ones with a decent MMR chances to progress solo.

What we have now is people stuck in emerald, saphire and ruby because they are still being farmed in a way or another. So yes, by bypassing the matchmaking system they created a loophole which created the situation we have now.

I believe there must be more players unlucky just as me, who solo queued, got farmed by pre-mades to the point that saw your decent win/ratio turn into trash and now is stuck in a hell hole with new players with only way to get out is to repeat the pattern (get 3 or more friends) that actually put me into this kitten situation.

LoL, all the people missing the point of thread and just bashing on the game for no reason even if its not even related to thread.

OP rank is way ahead of player population. Right now only a handful of players got to diamond of course he would get long que. Most people are still in amber and emerald.

Morwath.9817:

Shockwave.1230:

They aren’t doing anything wrong by queuing with low tiers, they are just trying to play the game in the competitive queue. The system takes that completely away from some people as it currently exists if you don’t take low queue players.

So?
-> Is system flawed? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing flaws in system? Check: Yes.
-> Are they abusing for personal gains? Check: Yes.
-> Do other players are disadvantaged because of abusing? Check: Yes.
-> Is abusing/exploiting against Code of Conduct? Check: Yes.

Do we should really care about their motives? Nope.
You will ask why shouldn’t we care about their motives? Because we will never know their real motives, since we can’t enter their head and read their thoughts, they may say I just want to play, but it will it be true? We will never know.

Shockwave.1230:

You can yell and scream foul, but teams that are already pro league teams don’t impact placings for the guild challenger league. So nothing foul is afoot.

So only guild challengers are playing in Ranked?

A flaw in the already flawed system is what actually allows players in these unqueuable situations to get matches, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to participate in the competitive queue.

Personal gain doesn’t matter, everyone is playing the game selfishly for their own enjoyment.

Other players aren’t at a disadvantage by top players taking low tiers so they can actually join into matches. These other players are at a disadvantage when their skill isn’t comparable to the team they are against.

Also, I am unfamiliar with any Terms of Service that are being violated, if you would enlighten me I’d be grateful.

There’s really nothing else to say, but this witch hunt of top players is wasteful when the system’s current design is clearly against them. They just want to queue and get their league badges/rewards like everyone else. They have a workaround that allows them to participate in the system even though it’s flawwed. Even Helseth and Rom are doing a workaround, just a different one, because they are in a different situation tier-wise.

@Shockwave.1230, I would respond to each single sentance you’ve made, but I guess its waste of my time, you will defend your friends/heroes anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Terms of Service, replace it with Code of Conduct.

I’d suggest reading it (currently not loading, so I won’t quote it for you) : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

So in short, gaining anything due to not intended use of in-game systems isn’t allowed, if you notice anything that can be abused, you should report it and not exploit it (read: you shouldn’t try to fool MM by picking low MMR to reduce total MMR of premade and to be matched against much weaker players than you), otherwise any exploits can be threaten by temporal or permanent account suspension.

Morwath.9817:

@Shockwave.1230, I would respond to each single sentance you’ve made, but I guess its waste of my time, you will defend your friends/heroes anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Terms of Service, replace it with Code of Conduct.

I’d suggest reading it (currently not loading, so I won’t quote it for you) : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

So in short, gaining anything due to not intended use of in-game systems isn’t allowed, if you notice anything that can be abused, you should report it and not exploit it (read: you shouldn’t try to fool MM by picking low MMR to reduce total MMR of premade and to be matched against much weaker players than you), otherwise any exploits can be threaten by temporal or permanent account suspension.

If you can prove that teams are intentially lowering their group MMR for the purpose of going up against weaker teams then you have a case for banning them.

However, players have been taking low MMR players months, perhaps years lowering group MMR for the purpose of reducing queue times.

Additionally MMR is influenced by profession, you can have your own low profession MMR queue as that profession for quicker queue times then swap professions at the start of a match.

These are things that ANet has known about and never banned before the league system was implemented. So becuase of that there won’t be mass bannings of players unless there is direct evidence they have intent to play weaker teams and not reduce queue times.

This means the most likely players to be banned are players who would have normal queue times and middle percentile MMR. Top tier players have the standard of manipulating MMR for reduced queue times to fall back on, since it has always been known and not punished.

If you have evidence that any player’s intent is to manipulate MMR for the purpose (be it a top tier or low tier player) then report them and present that evidence. Otherwise there’s no reason to continue trying to burn players at the stake for reducing queue times.

But you at least get to run round the exciting hotm whilst you queue. Incredible fun sitting staring at a pc screen for 10 minutes to play a 4v5

Sorry im not an average player that queues an average amount. I didnt no life to diamond, i just won the games that i played. In fact i didnt even queue for 3 days after i got ruby.

All these people (clearly those who have been stomped) are complaining that i mmr abused and farmed my way to diamond. Why dont you ask anet for my match history? Ive had my fair share of running into 5 mans andgetting stomped because teammates would rather complain than try to win

Hilariously enough this whole thread was about me tryingto solo q, even as a ruby and not getting games, while other lower mmr rubies in my friends list got games

Seems like morwath got stomped by some premades and is now on a kitten crusade. Lmao the biggest whiner I’ve seen. Nowhere does it state a diamond player cannot queue with an amber player. Thats not a flaw, thats not an exploit. If anet wants to implement restrictions based off divisions at some point, they can. As it stands now that is not implemented, so its not a rule. Its not like they are bypassing some MMR restriction lmao is this guy serious?

Also, stop complaining about running into premades. It’s the nature of this type of queue. Where teams, and solo players share the same league its going to happen. This isn’t solo queue. If you want to solo queue in an everything queue, then thats your problem. I agree this league system is dumb, team and solo queue should be seperated but thats simply not the case at this time. Please stop crying

You don’t need to depend on the game to find challenges for you, Sunfish. You could do more duels, 2v2s, or even practice specific situations like 1v2s and 2v1s on specific nodes. I’m sure there are plenty of other players at, near, and beyond your current skill level that would be happy to participate in custom games that focus on honing skills rather than waiting in long queues for a chance at league progression. I bet a bunch of the people willing to do this are already on your friend list.

Shockwave.1230:

If you can prove that teams are intentially lowering their group MMR for the purpose of going up against weaker teams then you have a case for banning them.

However, players have been taking low MMR players months, perhaps years lowering group MMR for the purpose of reducing queue times.

Additionally MMR is influenced by profession, you can have your own low profession MMR queue as that profession for quicker queue times then swap professions at the start of a match.

These are things that ANet has known about and never banned before the league system was implemented. So becuase of that there won’t be mass bannings of players unless there is direct evidence they have intent to play weaker teams and not reduce queue times.

This means the most likely players to be banned are players who would have normal queue times and middle percentile MMR. Top tier players have the standard of manipulating MMR for reduced queue times to fall back on, since it has always been known and not punished.

If you have evidence that any player’s intent is to manipulate MMR for the purpose (be it a top tier or low tier player) then report them and present that evidence. Otherwise there’s no reason to continue trying to burn players at the stake for reducing queue times.

That’s six of one half a dozen of the other. In other words atm those two things are essentially the same thing.

They are intentionally manipulating their teams mmr to get matches, which pits them against lower mmr teams.

Now switch it

They are intentionally manipulating their teams mmr to get pit against lower mmr teams, which gets them matches.

See how it’s the same thing?

If they were manipulating it upwards as well then you’d have a point b/c then there would be an instance where it wasn’t the same thing.

rennlc.7346:

You don’t need to depend on the game to find challenges for you, Sunfish. You could do more duels, 2v2s, or even practice specific situations like 1v2s and 2v1s on specific nodes. I’m sure there are plenty of other players at, near, and beyond your current skill level that would be happy to participate in custom games that focus on honing skills rather than waiting in long queues for a chance at league progression. I bet a bunch of the people willing to do this are already on your friend list.

I’ve done plenty of that. Sometimes you just want to play conquest.

About how many hours per week on average is plenty? (I’m not asking to judge you or anything like that. I’m asking out of curiosity about what choices and actions help players become good, great, or among the best. I’ll accept an answer in this thread here, via PM, or none at all if the question, or you not knowing me, makes you uncomfortable.)

butch.8136:

Tbf the population hasn’t catched up at all.

Population can’t catch up because of the matchmaking system

Yawz.7841:

Seems like morwath got stomped by some premades and is now on a kitten crusade. Lmao the biggest whiner I’ve seen. Nowhere does it state a diamond player cannot queue with an amber player. Thats not a flaw, thats not an exploit. If anet wants to implement restrictions based off divisions at some point, they can. As it stands now that is not implemented, so its not a rule. Its not like they are bypassing some MMR restriction lmao is this guy serious?

Also, stop complaining about running into premades. It’s the nature of this type of queue. Where teams, and solo players share the same league its going to happen. This isn’t solo queue. If you want to solo queue in an everything queue, then thats your problem. I agree this league system is dumb, team and solo queue should be seperated but thats simply not the case at this time. Please stop crying

Seems like Morwath got to Sapphire in two days of tryharding as soloQ, then stopped playing (read: I haven’t qued since a week) because of how flawed system is for our amazing competitive que. Probably would be Diamond by now with amount of free time I currently have (basicaly enough to grind 16h a day >_>‘). However Anet decided to remove Stronghold, so I can’t even enjoy game in non-competitive que, since I don’t want to take part in Bunker Wars 2.

This discussion isn’t about premade vs soloq, but people abusing matchmaking system on purpose and flawed matchmaking system. Also, since I’ve plenty time now, due to disabled Stronghold I’ve started to read forums more often and track issues and abuses, as a result I’ve made this stawpoll ( http://strawpoll.me/6197394/r ). Since majority of voting people (70%) think abusers should be punished, while minority (12%) think they shouldn’t be, I’m just voicing opinion of majority in this case.

Serophous.9085:

butch.8136:

Tbf the population hasn’t catched up at all.

Population can’t catch up because of the matchmaking system

Because system is abused, they will probably never catch and our “pros” will complain about que times…

The most annoying part in this case is silence of Anet. If they would give us information that:

a) It’s not abuse.
b) It’s abuse and exploiters will be punished.
c) It’s abuse and exploiters will be punished for only future exploiting.

Nobody would discuss this anymore.

They do give us information Morwath. The code of conduct. You just don’t know how to interpret it and are on a crusade to condemn pro players. As someone has already proved you wrong: you can’t prove that they are tanking MMR, and it is simply due to anets lack of a proper system.

Go back and read shockwaves post, he completely shut down any kind of rebuttle you may have. Case closed.

Jelzouki.4128:

They do give us information Morwath. The code of conduct. You just don’t know how to interpret it and are on a crusade to condemn pro players. As someone has already proved you wrong: you can’t prove that they are tanking MMR, and it is simply due to anets lack of a proper system.

What logic is this?
You could say they can’t prove that they aren’t tanking MMR.

Also Shockwave post logic is like Thief has stolen apple, because he was hungry, it’s fine, blame the system he was hungry, I’ve stopped responding to this guy, because his “arguments” make no sense.

Edit:

Also if they would want just reduce que time, they would duo que with someone with slightly lower MMR, so matchmaking still could find fair match… but, they don’t. What we see now are parties full of diamonds/rubies and single amber to fool matchmaking system.