Guild Wars 2

In case you haven’t noticed, the might changes only slightly shifted the meta. We can debate up and down about whether or not Celestial is balanced, but something that is far more obvious is that certain sigils are outclassing others by a huge margin.

Doom: I’m pretty sure it’s never a bad thing to have this in your build. It’s duration is long enough that you get decent uptime even if your class has no other access to the condition. It makes it much easier to deal with any build that has regen and makes healing harder in general.

Either the duration needs to be reduced or it could honestly be removed completely and I wouldn’t mind.

Energy: Dodging is some of the best sustain to be had in the game, and this lets you do more of that. Toss this on and your sustain goes up a decent amount. Maybe not OP, but I see it as something that allows you to be more willy-nilly with your dodges rather than using them tactically.

Those two are the most troublesome. Sure, you can deal with them, but if you ask me they make PvP easier than it should be. Try running a build without these, chances are you’ll find that things become trickier than running with them.

EDIT: I should probably also mention Sigil of Intelligence. I don’t know if it’s OP per-say, but on weapons like Warrior’s Hammer and Engi’s Rifle it allows you to take a more tanky ammy and still be able to bust out some big hits.

Energy is still stupidly strong, btw.

BlackTruth.6813:

Energy is still stupidly strong, btw.

But then you look at classes who’s access to vigor was gutted (mesmer cough cough) and they are forced to take energy just to try and keep up with other classes….

IMO sigils that need a nerf are:

-doom: too strong, gives poisons for classes that should’t have it. easy to apply and covered with condi spaming other condis it is not hard to keep it up

-energy: too strong becuase gives 1 free dodge every 9s

-air+fire combo: gives the ability for people to spec defensive and still do crazy spike dmg (sw+dg thief, mes gs, etc..)

-geomancy: too much condi from a sigil that is so easy to proc. needs to be toned down like sigil of battle was

What I find most problematic about Sigil of Energy is that you get the energy for a dodge immediately. If instead, it granted vigor or a similar over-time effect, it wouldn’t be as powerful.

Any and all of the on swap sigils are going to be problematic while balancing them around the existance of profession that greatly differ in ‘swap’ timers (i.e elementalist, engineer and fast hands warrior) in which case the sigils are much more valuable than to the other professions/builds.

Doom is most effective against Eles/Wars/Engineers who have stacked multiple sources of sustain (traits, regen, highly effective healing abilities).

Energy is an extremely vital must-have to the Mesmer, Condi Necro, and often not utilized by Ele/Engi/War, with some exceptions.

Shaving Doom and shaving Energy would probably only solidify the status quo more.

Exedore.6320:

What I find most problematic about Sigil of Energy is that you get the energy for a dodge immediately. If instead, it granted vigor or a similar over-time effect, it wouldn’t be as powerful.

I like that idea, adds a bit of counterplay.

Seeing as how necromancers have no access to vigor energy sigil is one of the few things keeping them from absolutely melting in team fight scenarios where death shroud becomes much less effective.
Even then it only helps so much.

If sigil of energy were to be removed then they should give necromancers access to vigor.

As far as other classes using it goes however, yes its OP as heck because they can combine it with vigor for insane amounts of endurance regen.

As for doom sigil.

Yes it is powerful but is also central to several condition builds because they are overly reliant on a single condition (either burning in the case of guardians or bleeding on the case of warriors.)

If it were to be removed or even reduced in effectiveness then those builds would suffer quite badly.

The problem is generally that profession that already have a lot of something can then get more of it from runes/sigils, making it annoying and arguably OP. But then there are profession that are practically forced to take the same runes/sigils not because they make the build OP, but because they lack some really basic and necessary mechanic to survive.

Removing Energy sigils is a really big hit to Necromancers, for example, who have nothing to actually avoid skills with beyond the basic dodges everyone gets. We’re about to have a similar situation to what happened with Lyssa runes, where some profession practically needed that condi removal, and yet others abused it and so it got nerfed.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

If it were to be removed or even reduced in effectiveness then those builds would suffer quite badly.

This gets into a fundamental question: Should sigils and runes have that big of an effect on a build?

I would argue “no” – traits and utilities should.

xDudisx.5914:

IMO sigils that need a nerf are:

-doom: too strong, gives poisons for classes that should’t have it. easy to apply and covered with condi spaming other condis it is not hard to keep it up

-energy: too strong becuase gives 1 free dodge every 9s

-air+fire combo: gives the ability for people to spec defensive and still do crazy spike dmg (sw+dg thief, mes gs, etc..)

-geomancy: too much condi from a sigil that is so easy to proc. needs to be toned down like sigil of battle was

Doom as I pointed out is the cornerstone of several condition specs. Nerfing it may be helpful to tone down some specs but it would screw others over.

Energy is also essential for necromancers as I pointed out. They have no access to vigor.
The other specs/classes that have vigor could stand loosing it however.

Agreed, you should not be able to stack air & fire.

Geomancy is limited to melee range & applies bleeds which are extremely common. While I can see reducing the duration of said bleeds slightly otherwise it’s fine.

Exedore.6320:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

If it were to be removed or even reduced in effectiveness then those builds would suffer quite badly.

This gets into a fundamental question: Should sigils and runes have that big of an effect on a build?

I would argue “no” – traits and utilities should.

I agree that it makes some specs OP & I would be all for removing them from those specs, However simply removing the sigil without compensating some specs would make them unplayable because of their over reliance on a very limited number of conditions.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

As for doom sigil.

Yes it is powerful but is also central to several condition builds because they are overly reliant on a single condition (either burning in the case of guardians or bleeding on the case of warriors.)

If it were to be removed or even reduced in effectiveness then those builds would suffer quite badly.

Good.

Exedore.6320:

This gets into a fundamental question: Should sigils and runes have that big of an effect on a build?

I would argue “no” – traits and utilities should.

The problem is that the builds that rely on those sigils can’t get that from traits/utilities. Necros take energy sigil because they have absolutely no other way to get energy regen or any other similar mechanic from traits. I’d be fine if they were compensated for that.

Just make energy sigil not proc if you have vigor up!

Doom is good in almost any build. Poison is so effective in wearing down all these kitten sustain builds. Some classes have no access to poison at all. Without screwing a bunkers heal up they would be simply unkillable.

With the frequency of balance patches, gutting the doom sigil would put pvp in an even darker age of condition dominance. Classes with no access to poison or kitten poor condi clear would get axed. For 6 whole months.

Chaith.8256:

Doom is most effective against Eles/Wars/Engineers who have stacked multiple sources of sustain (traits, regen, highly effective healing abilities).

Energy is an extremely vital must-have to the Mesmer, Condi Necro, and often not utilized by Ele/Engi/War, with some exceptions.

Shaving Doom and shaving Energy would probably only solidify the status quo more.

This is a solid point actually, these sigils do seem to give overly strong effects in comparison, but taking them out would only harm the classes outside the meta.

The only reason why people use Doom is because of high sustain meta builds! Nerfing Doom is a buff to these classes and a buff to sustain-y builds! Nobody wants that!

None of the S tier classes use Energy sigil! Nerfing Energy Sigil is a buff to the Celestial Amulet builds that you dislike so much!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

relax, when resistance boon is available to all professions, poison will be less potent.

and doom sigil is balanced by the way, since the poison condition can be removed.

plus the duration is only 6 seconds, not very long.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

and doom sigil is balanced by the way, since the poison condition can be removed.

plus the duration is only 6 seconds, not very long.

It’s 6 seconds on potentially 9 second CD. Some put it on both sets, or don’t have to (Warriors) to have really good up time.

It seems like we could do with some balancing in terms of vigor access for classes like Mes and Necro so they can reduce their reliance on Energy.

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong. Either the stats need to become more focused (why did they not just up the crit damage instead nerfing it?) or just not be in PvP. If players need to be more specialized then we can have damage dealers who can actually die and condition dealers that can be countered by heavy condi removal.

Everyone being kinda-sorta good at everything has made PvP beyond dull. Sigils, runes, and your ammy used to not be as important as your traits, but now they are just as and in some cases MORE important.

Mesmer does not need more vigor access. They get 50% vigor uptime just from 1 minor trait in a traitline that all mesmers run. It is not that necro has too little dodges, the problem is that almost all meta builds have way too much vigor uptime and in most cases it comes from passive adept or minor traits.

I like the way anet is nerfing boons. First might reducing the max dmg output and now incomig stab nerf. Would like to see some nerf to the boon vigor. Maybe go from 100% extra regen to 50-75%

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

ArrDee.2573:

The only reason why people use Doom is because of high sustain meta builds! Nerfing Doom is a buff to these classes and a buff to sustain-y builds! Nobody wants that!

None of the S tier classes use Energy sigil! Nerfing Energy Sigil is a buff to the Celestial Amulet builds that you dislike so much!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

How can you tell that nobody likes it? You can’t.

Nerf to doom and energy would be a great change.

xDudisx.5914:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

ArrDee.2573:

The only reason why people use Doom is because of high sustain meta builds! Nerfing Doom is a buff to these classes and a buff to sustain-y builds! Nobody wants that!

None of the S tier classes use Energy sigil! Nerfing Energy Sigil is a buff to the Celestial Amulet builds that you dislike so much!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

How can you tell that nobody likes it? You can’t.

Nerf to doom and energy would be a great change.

Zerker also has more tradeoffs than Cele. There’s also much more variety in Zerker styles. You can have huge spike based zerk and you can have sustained DPS. With Cele it’s almost always the same, a bit of condi, bit of power, and stack as much regen as you can. Even Rabid builds have more variety, you have the slow drain of Necros and the huge spike of bleeds from Warrior. I need to mess with it more but the ability to stack Torment and Confusion on Mes looks kinda fun as well.

If ANet still wants to make the game something to watch competitively, then these cele builds got to go, they drag out matches and make fights (imo) very boring to watch.

Cele needs slight nerf, way to prevalent atm. Sure, zerker is common too, but it is partly due to cele being so powerful. Otherwise we might see some carrin/rabid/whatever again. And also nerfing air/fire would nerf most zerkers, especially the ones who get carried by sigil damage.

I also agree on nerfing geo/doom/energy somewhat. Sure some classes/builds are very reliant on these but that is a problem with the class itself, not the sigil in question. Perhaps necro needs more vigor or the others need less, but a sigil should never be game changinly strong (look at force/accuracy for good examples). Imho ^^

we need doom sigil to counter the current meta bruiser builds.

we need more anti-boon sigils tbh. (50% chance on hit to remove 1 boon from target and yourself, no CD)

also someone was pointing out ele and engi using on swap sigils more often which is not balanced…. just wanted to point out that they only get 2 sigils instead of 4 like everyone else.

Solstice.1097:

we need doom sigil to counter the current meta bruiser builds.

we need more anti-boon sigils tbh. (50% chance on hit to remove 1 boon from target and yourself, no CD)

That idea would be OP on Necros. They don’t care about losing boons (since they typically only have one or two), so they wouldn’t really suffer a drawback while removing every boon they come across.

Celestial amulet is fine. It is not even viable for most classes. When was the last time you have seen a celestial mesmer, necro, thief or guard?

They just need to reduce a bit the dmg output from d/d and engi. But without a nerf to air+fire combo first it would be a bad decision to nerf celestial hybrid classes.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Solstice.1097:

we need doom sigil to counter the current meta bruiser builds.

we need more anti-boon sigils tbh. (50% chance on hit to remove 1 boon from target and yourself, no CD)

That idea would be OP on Necros. They don’t care about losing boons (since they typically only have one or two), so they wouldn’t really suffer a drawback while removing every boon they come across.

necros could use some love imo

These aren’t easy things to fix.

A change to doom sigil would either require a change to poison or a change to classes like Warriors and Eles with constant passive regen.

A change to energy will require a very close look at nearly half the classes in the game or a sever nerfing of the other half to close the gap in effective dodge.

Air and Fire are probably the easiest to address and I’m honestly surprised one wasn’t removed outright when they redid the sigils.

On a power-scale, sigil of energy is clearly a bit too strong. However, as others have pointed out, they aren’t used by the meta classes, so it might be better to leave them FOR NOW.

Doom sigil, however, I DO think should be taken away. While these are VERY strong against the warr/ele/engie, they are also used by these builds as they provide such good pressure as well. Taking away doom from warr and ele would very much hurt their capability to apply pressure as a bunker spec, forcing them to take more offense or just allowing opponents to survive their slow, consistent pressure longer.

Engie will not be hurt as much b/c they have access to poison (poison nades is one of the strongest sources of poison), but since when is Anet opposed to buffing engie relative to other classes?

xDudisx.5914:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

He’s mainly talking about high tier Tournament Teams. Not half of the baddies on this game. There’s a reason why these teams have at least three players running Celestials.

xDudisx.5914:

ArrDee.2573:

The only reason why people use Doom is because of high sustain meta builds! Nerfing Doom is a buff to these classes and a buff to sustain-y builds! Nobody wants that!

None of the S tier classes use Energy sigil! Nerfing Energy Sigil is a buff to the Celestial Amulet builds that you dislike so much!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

How can you tell that nobody likes it? You can’t.

Nerf to doom and energy would be a great change.

I’d listen to what Dee is saying here. The nerf would be a horrendous change… you might as well reverse the small hair nerf Anet did to might. Lets give back 2k damage to Cele builds.
That’s what you’ll do if you nerf Doom/Energy.

Sigils and Runes add more complexity to builds. They are part of what makes this game interesting, they are literally skills that you don’t need to worry about because they run in the background.

My problem with wanting to nerf either of these two sigils is that there are literally no builds that use them that you can definitely say with 100% conviction that they are a problem. Not a single one.
Mesmers? Condi classes beat them. Necros? Warriors can beat them. Engies? Guardians can beat them. Eles? Necros can beat them.

So even with these so called OP sigils, these classes are still beatable. And really, the length of the poison, I think, is being overstated here. It’s really not that long. The only thing I can say is that when specced specifically for dodging repeatedly, the Engie can be a menace but, it’s not like it won’t die eventually.

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

Leave them as is.

Doom is useful to help melt high sustain builds.

Energy is useful to help sustain high melt builds.

Removing both would be essentially handing wins to heavies/tank specs.

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

They wont do it because it makes it unnecessarily difficult or at least that is the argument I see them making.

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

adding in a bunch of (potentially undocumented) exceptions is opposite the direction the devs want with balance.. it drastically raises the barrier to entry for new blood

Saiyan.1704:

xDudisx.5914:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

He’s mainly talking about high tier Tournament Teams. Not half of the baddies on this game. There’s a reason why these teams have at least three players running Celestials.

Your post makes 0 sense. Zerker thieves have been quite abundand in tournaments since ever. Even in finals sometimes you see zerker mesmer. Zerker medi guard and even a bow ranger were present in anets recent tourneys.

Celestial amulet is more than fine. Only 3 classes run that normally engi/war/ele. And you see some warriors with soldiers too. Zerker is more of a problem than celestial after might nerf.

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

adding in a bunch of (potentially undocumented) exceptions is opposite the direction the devs want with balance.. it drastically raises the barrier to entry for new blood

or one could say the opposite, and that by Anet’s own logic having fewer things to choose from makes it easier.

If the runes/sigils are too strong on their own then nerf those runes/sigils. If there are other issues that result, then address those issues separately. You shouldn’t be forced into using a sigil if sustain builds are OP, those builds should be nerfed.

Bhawb.7408:

If the runes/sigils are too strong on their own then nerf those runes/sigils. If there are other issues that result, then address those issues separately. You shouldn’t be forced into using a sigil if sustain builds are OP, those builds should be nerfed.

While a meta build balance patch would always be ideal, that’s a much bigger scope than what most people are talking about in this thread.

The thought process is that every small change at this stage of the game should directly contribute to improving balance.

If the change generates more grumbles to professions currently struggling to be represented, as opposed to professions already well represented, that is enough reason to /veto.

And it’s honestly not a bad way of thinking when you factor in how shallow and infrequent the balance adjustments typically are. Nobody wants to have a build ‘rebalanced’ and then wait 6 months for the sigil changes that will allow that build to be usable again, for example.

I feel like nerfing these sigils exacerbates current problems. I agree they’re strong right now but I think the consequences of losing their strength means more difficulties for handling strong sustain builds already (engi, ele), and weakens classes who cant compete with the amount of evades compared to other classes. I think these are both negative outcomes.

Half of meta uses cele? It’s only 3 classes. You could then say half of the meta uses zerk so zerk needs nerf too!
Energy isn’t as strong as you say. It’s a sacrifice you make by not taking another sigil. Be it fire/air, leeching, geomancy, intel etc.
Doom is just an answer to the sustainy meta.
Do you want them to nerf everything to make stupid kitten like hobbling viable?

Saiyan.1704:

xDudisx.5914:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

He’s mainly talking about high tier Tournament Teams. Not half of the baddies on this game. There’s a reason why these teams have at least three players running Celestials.

xDudisx.5914:

ArrDee.2573:

The only reason why people use Doom is because of high sustain meta builds! Nerfing Doom is a buff to these classes and a buff to sustain-y builds! Nobody wants that!

None of the S tier classes use Energy sigil! Nerfing Energy Sigil is a buff to the Celestial Amulet builds that you dislike so much!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

How can you tell that nobody likes it? You can’t.

Nerf to doom and energy would be a great change.

I’d listen to what Dee is saying here. The nerf would be a horrendous change… you might as well reverse the small hair nerf Anet did to might. Lets give back 2k damage to Cele builds.
That’s what you’ll do if you nerf Doom/Energy.

Actually those “high tier teams” are exactly those people who use half of the zerkers in their team set up because zerkers require much more skill than celestial to be effective.

It is those mediocre teams that choose all celestial because they’re the easiest to be highly effective in ranked battle.

Shiyo.3578:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

As for doom sigil.

Yes it is powerful but is also central to several condition builds because they are overly reliant on a single condition (either burning in the case of guardians or bleeding on the case of warriors.)

If it were to be removed or even reduced in effectiveness then those builds would suffer quite badly.

Good.

You must have horrible reading comprehension.

What I said in clear terms was that there are plenty of non meta builds that rely on sigil of doom.

Nerfing it may bring meta builds more into line but it would also ruin those non meta builds.

By all means if they do nerf doom sigil they need to give those non meta builds a better array of conditions in their spec.

Solstice.1097:

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

adding in a bunch of (potentially undocumented) exceptions is opposite the direction the devs want with balance.. it drastically raises the barrier to entry for new blood

or one could say the opposite, and that by Anet’s own logic having fewer things to choose from makes it easier.

taking lyssa runes… if it had a cutoff at 75 seconds for the 6 piece bonus where if the elite is below 75 sec cd, it only converts 5 condis, and above a 75 sec cd, it converts all. thats just needlessly complicated. it works inconsistently between professions. it makes for a really long tooltip. if you decide to only show the “correct” tooltip for each equipped elite, then there is info hidden from players that can only be accessed by going out of their way to look for it.

i think those 3 things are good enough reason to balance every use case around optimal use cases instead of making exceptions. because at least if one balances around optimality, one does not need to gum up the system with poorly telegraphed, conditional, or excepted info.

and then… what if a player notices air/fire sigils and is like “oh, these are great for burst damage… my teef is a bursty toon… maybe ill try air/fire on his weapons” but then looks at the sigil options for daggers and cant find air/fire? that situation is a real head scratcher for him. it doesnt make sense. he would have to go read all the patch notes ever in order to find out why that is the way it is or something, and therein lies the problem… there is inconsistent functionality, and he would have to go out of his way to get an explanation for why.

i dunno, youre proposing anet targets balance at a really micro level, and i think doing so would overcomplicate the game and make it wayyyy less accessible.

xDudisx.5914:

Saiyan.1704:

xDudisx.5914:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, I didn’t wanna get on Cele but come on, if half the meta uses it there’s obviously something wrong.

And the other half classes are zerker. By the same logic let’s first nerf zerkers.

Zerker medi guard
Zerker thief
Zerker mesmer

we also see some zerker bowrangers

He’s mainly talking about high tier Tournament Teams. Not half of the baddies on this game. There’s a reason why these teams have at least three players running Celestials.

Celestial amulet is more than fine. Only 3 classes run that normally engi/war/ele. And you see some warriors with soldiers too. Zerker is more of a problem than celestial after might nerf.

How many teams have Engi/War/Ele in their comp in tournaments? Thanks for valdidating my point

Back on topic
The argument here isn’t Dooms damage but the -33% heal debuff. Whether the duration should be reduced or the healing debuff should be less.

Tank amulet users want a nerf. Dps amulet users are saying no. Condi users are saying, “Don’t nurf Mai dmg kthx!”.

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

adding in a bunch of (potentially undocumented) exceptions is opposite the direction the devs want with balance.. it drastically raises the barrier to entry for new blood

or one could say the opposite, and that by Anet’s own logic having fewer things to choose from makes it easier.

taking lyssa runes… if it had a cutoff at 75 seconds for the 6 piece bonus where if the elite is below 75 sec cd, it only converts 5 condis, and above a 75 sec cd, it converts all. thats just needlessly complicated. it works inconsistently between professions. it makes for a really long tooltip. if you decide to only show the “correct” tooltip for each equipped elite, then there is info hidden from players that can only be accessed by going out of their way to look for it.

i think those 3 things are good enough reason to balance every use case around optimal use cases instead of making exceptions. because at least if one balances around optimality, one does not need to gum up the system with poorly telegraphed, conditional, or excepted info.

and then… what if a player notices air/fire sigils and is like “oh, these are great for burst damage… my teef is a bursty toon… maybe ill try air/fire on his weapons” but then looks at the sigil options for daggers and cant find air/fire? that situation is a real head scratcher for him. it doesnt make sense. he would have to go read all the patch notes ever in order to find out why that is the way it is or something, and therein lies the problem… there is inconsistent functionality, and he would have to go out of his way to get an explanation for why.

i dunno, youre proposing anet targets balance at a really micro level, and i think doing so would overcomplicate the game and make it wayyyy less accessible.

maybe you misread or i didn’t explain clearly. in the lyssa example, if you had signet of rage equipped, then Lyssa would not be one of the options when choosing your rune. it would be grayed out, and if you try to click on it you get the message this rune is not compatible with X so remove X if you want this rune.

I also think some of you are overstating how much Anet cares about keeping the entry barrier low. I mean, look at how great of a tutorial PvP has!