Guild Wars 2

Before i get started i little background about my self. I played 3 out of the 4 GW1 “expansions”, Played years of WoW, played years of LoL. Now, im sort of still new to GW2, ill give you that, but i can sort of get the feeling already about its pvp.

This critique is mainly about sPvP, which was sort of a core feature in GW1.
IHMO problem with GW2 revolves around there being too much damage flying round, too long of cooldown on support skills and no dedicated support classes. Yes there are classes that support classes that can sort of bring some utility to the game, but truth be told and as is to be expected with this paradigm, they will essentially be blown out of the water by high damage long range classes.

1rst Problem: No support.
There is no class in the game that can effectively Heal its group, and i mean spam healing, reduce damage intake. The Guardian can sort of do this, but not really being all his healing CDs on 20+ seconds. You get some Damage reduction CDs Like protector´s strike, that are again on a 15 to 20+ second CDs.

2nd Problem: Melee classes not really viable.
Given P1 the obvious P2 arises, since you have no support what so ever, and limited healing the only really viable builds are those that either burn you out from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds flat or Kite you to death. If you think about it, they only class that you see fight melee are thieves which essentially do the former, they don’t stay melee in the strict seance of the word.

3rd Problem: UI extremely clunky.
No macros, Action bar customization, Managing multiple action bars. I understand that you will need to implement multiple action bars for the different weapons, i am not new to this concept, i used to play a feral druid in WoW. How ever, why is it that i can not position the skills on my action bar as i see fit?. Say i need to play a combo sequence involving 2 skills from the main weapon and then switch and cast 3 of the other. Why is it i can not position the skills so that is 1, 2, mouse 3, 1, 2, 3 ?, why does it need to be 1, 3, mouse 3, 4, 1, 3? what is the point on that?, its not like i would be requesting a macro god forbid, but this is extremely exacerbated on classes like Elementists or Engineers.

4rd Problem: CDs upon CDs upon CDs.
So you have your Healing skill CD, you Weapon Switching CD, you Individual Skill CD, Your support Skill CD. To make matters worst, the game is designed in such a way that you essentially should not spam anything but your “1”, which is nice and all but it breaks the flow of the game, instead of a steady combat, you have combos that will break combat one way or the other.

5th Problem: No class Differentiation.
Armor on this game is borderline pointless, yes it reduces damage, but so much focus is put on dodging, skill combination, kiting, condition damage, and X second damage immunity skills that armor on it self is almost relevant, so Defensive damage reduction through armor is about the same for everyone.
All classes have self sustain.
All classes can fight melee or ranged, yes melee sucks in general, but every one can suck just the same or fight ranged and kite.
All classes can spam conditions far beyond any other class capability of removing them.
All classes have some sort of ranged/alfa strike build.
Differences between classes are minimal, they all do all they just do it differently.

Bottom line, i expected more, GW1 had a fantastic pvp system, where did that go?, it was dated for sure and needed a face lift, but not this.

Another person who flings his experience in other games around like it means something, calls for a dedicated healer in a game that was clearly advertised as not having the old trinity, and expects things to work like WoW.

Yawn. You could have at least used the search function to find similar threads instead of starting this one again.

This isn’t GW1 and it never will be. GW2 is its own beast entirely. If you can’t get used to that, then I don’t know what to tell you…but most people agree that not having a Monk isn’t an issue.

tldr; You expected a rehash, didn’t get quite what you expected, and think that making the game a copy of GW1 or other trinity MMOs would make things ten times better.

1- no need
2- soon
3- option change buttons or learn this like a new game.
4- agree
5- agree
6- agree Seryi about search function etc

The cooldowns are a trade-off for energy (what most games use).

Shukran.4851:

1- no need
2- soon
3- option change buttons or learn this like a new game.
4- agree
5- agree
6- agree Seryi about search function etc

Option to change buttons does no work, if i change 1 say to 2 on my main weapon set it will also change it on my secondary weapon set, which may not (and most of the time is not) be what i would want.

For the record, I agree there are some major issues with GW2’s PvP at the moment, I’m getting rather tired of hearing WoW or GW1 vets coming in here and calling for a Monk or other dedicated healer/support profession like it would miraculously make things better.

Most people in GW2 came here in the first place to get away from that, it was at the core of the advertising.

so u have to learn to play gw2 as a new game. custom ui is the most wanted and never received feature. so deal with it.

i agree with butch but still shourter cds (with a rebalanced skillsets) would help dynamics in game imho.

edit: seryi honestly i think that on 26th of august 2012 (gw2 release) more than 50% of community was formed by gw1 players. just random numbers ofc i can’t prove it.

butch.8136:

The cooldowns are a trade-off for energy (what most games use).

Now you know why other games do not do it this way. The ones that pull it off, do not do it by implementing 100 different CDs, they reserve long CDs to significant skills and tie all other skills to the CDs of a single/multiple (1 to 3 or so) clocks/resources. Call Runes in the DK class in wow, weapon overheating and reloading on FPSes and so on.

Seryi.7936:

For the record, I agree there are some major issues with GW2’s PvP at the moment, I’m getting rather tired of hearing WoW or GW1 vets coming in here and calling for a Monk or other dedicated healer/support profession like it would miraculously make things better.

Most people in GW2 came here in the first place to get away from that, it was at the core of the advertising.

Really? i came here because i liked GW1, i could bet a great many deal of players are satisfied returning customers, just like in any other business. Actually i find it rather ironic that a game as GW1 renowned for its PvP and with an average at best PvE, managed to pull a 180 on this on its sequel.
It irks me to no end and i find the “Downed” system a poor substitute for a proper support role.

1: This game is fine without Support classes. Other then the group of players that enjoy playing a dedicated support, there is no reason for Anet to implement this role (IMO). As it is, you can make a strong argument that there actually are support builds that can do this role, although not as obviously as a healer from another game.

2: What makes you even think this? There are many melee builds and classes in this game. D/D ele, bunker ranger, gaurdian, warrior (although this has been nerfed to hell), and thief (as you have mentioned) are all things that can role entirely melee.

The only one of those that isn’t competitive and 100% viable is warrior, too.

3: I can agree with this complaint, except for the macro part. However, I don’t think its that big a deal, you’ll get used to it.

4: This complaint is, and sorry for the unconstructive opinion here, stupid. Learn to manage your CDs; everyone else has.

5: Class differences are actually quite large. Your looking for the class differences seen in other MMOs and games. The class differences in GW2 are different.

The biggest difference is what mechanics they can fulfill, (peeling, stomping, bunkering, rezzing, killing, providing utility, support, teammate condi clears, condis, CC, mobility, etc.) and how well they can do it. This is really just an issue with you being not yet 100% familiar with the game.

P.S.: I get that you are not happy with GW2, but stop with the whiny/negative comments in other threads. Try to keep the forum environment constructive and positive

Baam.2493:

The biggest difference is what mechanics they can fulfill, (peeling, stomping, bunkering, rezzing, killing, providing utility, support, teammate condi clears, condis, CC, mobility, etc.) and how well they can do it. This is really just an issue with you being not yet 100% familiar with the game.

P.S.: I get that you are not happy with GW2, but stop with the toxic comments in other threads. Try to keep the forum environment constructive and positive

I made no toxic comments, this are realities that many of us dislike. I am glad you are happy with the current state of the game, how ever a rather large majority seems not to be. When a game renown for its pv kitten alvaged thanks to its pve, then there is clearly an issue there. When so many people leave and complain the about the same things then you should pay attention to it, i own GW1 expansions and I would not buy GW2 expansion even if they were 50% off, heck i would take a reimbursement if they offered one on the GW2 core set. They experimented with the Design and it failed, there is no reason the game cant be salvaged yet, Its pve will not keep it alive forever.

PS: Now that is a rant and a toxic comment.

Alright. I edited out the words toxic comment

Apolo.5942:

Baam.2493:

The biggest difference is what mechanics they can fulfill, (peeling, stomping, bunkering, rezzing, killing, providing utility, support, teammate condi clears, condis, CC, mobility, etc.) and how well they can do it. This is really just an issue with you being not yet 100% familiar with the game.

P.S.: I get that you are not happy with GW2, but stop with the toxic comments in other threads. Try to keep the forum environment constructive and positive

I made no toxic comments, this are realities that many of us dislike. I am glad you are happy with the current state of the game, how ever a rather large majority seems not to be. When a game renown for its pv kitten alvaged thanks to its pve, then there is clearly an issue there. When so many people leave and complain the about the same things then you should pay attention to it, i own GW1 expansions and I would not buy GW2 expansion even if they were 50% off, heck i would take a reimbursement if they offered one on the GW2 core set. They experimented with the Design and it failed, there is no reason the game cant be salvaged yet, Its pve will not keep it alive forever.

PS: Now that is a rant and a toxic comment.

There was nothing toxic about your comments. I don’t think what you’ve said has been well received because the people responding probably never played gw1 pvp, so they have no idea what you are saying.

I’m a gw1 vet, gw2 pvp isn’t even close to the level of gw1 pvp. Many fans of the original migrated to gw2 in hopes to experience the next level of pvp. But instead they got something that is far inferior to gw1. The roles have significantly reversed, while gw1 pve was lackluster but pvp phenomenal. Gw2 pve is great but pvp is generally lacking.

And I suspect just as in the original gw1, were they couldn’t fix pvp due to the basic mechanics gw1 revolved around. Gw2 pvp may suffer the same fate.

I am not satisfied with the current state of PvP at all. I just dislike Apolo’s attitude and I feel that his threads are entirely unconstructive and made with a negative attitude.

Sorry if what i’m doing offends anyone, I just don’t like people that give uninsightful, negative, whiny, unconstructive feedback so FORCEFULLY on the forums.

All those adjectives are my strong opinion, and I stand by them.

Aza.2105:

There was nothing toxic about your comments. I don’t think what you’ve said has been well received because the people responding probably never played gw1 pvp, so they have no idea what you are saying.

I’m a gw1 vet, gw2 pvp isn’t even close to the level of gw1 pvp. Many fans of the original migrated to gw2 in hopes to experience the next level of pvp. But instead they got something that is far inferior to gw1. The roles have significantly reversed, while gw1 pve was lackluster but pvp phenomenal. Gw2 pve is great but pvp is generally lacking.

And I suspect just as in the original gw1, were they couldn’t fix pvp due to the basic mechanics gw1 revolved around. Gw2 pvp may suffer the same fate.

Well i don’t think GW2 has received a death sentence yet, CD mechanic can still be salvaged, its all about redefining the classes and their roles and balances. How ever I dont think the player base actually realizes how Critical it is they act on it pronto. This aint WoW, there is no subscription fee in place. Much of this game´s future relies on how well its expansions sell, and at this point in time, i dont really think they would sell all that good, thou this is completely my opinion and i have no hard data what so ever to back it up, i dont consider the expansions would sell all that well based solely on the pve aspect of the game.

Also Baam, i dont know if you ever played GW1, and i dont want to sound condescending or insulting, but all the roles you described were already there in GW1, and they were much more complex than their current incarnation.

Been Playing the game some more, since I was told repeatedly, that The Thiefs are a good melee class, i thought i would give it a go and see if it was true.
Turns out it was true, how ever, WHY was it true?, because of a little skill called HeartSeeker. This one skill, includes everything that every other proper melee class lacks, it is a No CD, High Damage, Gap Closer, all rolled into 1. Now in the game of kiting of course a class with a skill like this can work and even then, it is still far more optimal to kite and shot from the distance and then close in for the kill. Does this mean it should be nerfed? Certainly not, something like this with toned down damage to compensate for their durability should be included for every weapon for Guardians and Warriors (with the exception of the Guardian weapon you should set aside for the proper support role).

6th Problem: Stacking effects Mechanic.
Other things I found that are clunky and bothersome are Staking Boons and Conditions. I understand why you need to Stack conditions from a design point of view, with out proper support and the far reduced diversity in conditions and hexes from GW1, you needed a way to make Condition builds viable, thus condition stacking. But was there really a need to stack them 25 high?, why not something more reasonable like 5, it all depends on how well you can spam it any way. This game suffers from this in some many different lvls, you went for the multiple less significant, shorter CD/Duration route on everything, rather than longer significant ones, as was generally speaking done on GW1 (and most other games for that matter). This is again exacerbated by Problem 3. Also, and this is entirely cosmetically, but why is it that every Dot in this game has its damage described as total over the total time?. Its a DOT, what we are interested for comparison is how hard it hits over a consistent amount of time (typically a second) not how much damage does total, specially not if we will be stacking it or trying to extend its duration.