Guild Wars 2

Is it just me that thinks that losing target when players stealth is a huge advantage ?

In a team fight full of minions/clones/spirits/pets , losing targets is a huge advantage

Im seeing way more mesmers/necros/rangers atm just because Trying to Tab target is impossible then when you manage to finally find the player they stealth and lose target lol . Some people actually try n use right click to target , good luck with that also

None player AI is making a mockery of Tpvp

For the life of me I could not understand what you are trying to say.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

For the life of me I could not understand what you are trying to say.

Im saying some classes have huge advantage due to targeting issues

What does that have to do with Necromancers? Or Rangers? As far as I know, Mesmers and Thieves are the only ones with alot of stealth, or alot of clutter.

well in team battles i usually can lock down and chase after the mesmer who is trying to escape amidst the confusion. (pun intended)

its not that hard to re-target them to chase and fire away.

Necromancers cant stealth
And yes, target dropping is an advantage, but only if used right, not sure what youre tryin to say here, did you assume being invisible to enemies isnt an advantage?

Lukin.4061:

Dam those stealthy necromancers, always ambushing me with their #1 staff

Ahahahha thanks for the laughs!

1) No option to move the camera very far back, at least not as far as I would like it.
2) Game mode forces mass fights on tiny nodes.
3) Mass particles everywhere.
4) Poor targeting in general.
5) Someone also said right click targeting is back as well? That also occasionally unintentionally changed your target.

So yeah, those things make it pretty frustrating when you also have classes giving you 4+ things to tab through, or dropping the target altogether when they stealth. You get used to it, but it’s poorly designed IMO. I would be fine with the stealth dropping target thing if everyone didn’t have dozens of clones and minions and pets and turrets and forcing you into tiny corners to defend tiny nodes with a camera distance that doesn’t allow you to see much past what’s right in front of you in tight locations.

Yes, stealth gives you a big advantage. That’s kinda the point of it.

I think OP i strying to say that with mesmers, rangers and necros filling the node with tons of minions, clones, pets, it’s hard to get a target.

So in group fights stealth is even stronger because of game design flaws: it’s not a rule, it’s just that the tools players have for targetig are bad.

By my side, I think every tool aiding the player knowing what’s going on is helpful.

That’s the reason why addons were so succesful in WoW.

Tabbing through Players to find the right target? Good freaking luck with that….

I don’t think there’s another Option in high-End play than to have very good Overview over a battlefield and to pick the right target manually with the mouse. You really need quick reactions and decent aiming, but I don’t think that this diminishes the game in any way – it makes it more challenging, but that’s IMHO a good thing.

So I don’t think you should keep your Target once it goes into stealth.

I do think the devs could make finding targets between all the minions etc. a bit easier, I have several ideas to accomplish this:

- Make Minion-Models and Pet’s smaller
- Diminish Effects so you are able to see stuff more clearly
- Maybe give us a a butto we can press to be able to click “through” minions, teammates, pets to hit a target easier that stands behind them. This Option could also make all the stuff you don’t want targeted a bit more see-through – this could really help IMHO, because even though I think finding and hitting the right target is an important skill to have in GW2, it shouldn’t be the case that you can’t click on it or even see it properly because of tons of pets, minions etc.

Obviously, those features shouldn’t work on Clones, so they still have the effect of distracting the opposing Players, but I see no reason why it shouldn’t work on Phantasms, since they look different than the main Mesmer anyways.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

What does that have to do with Necromancers? Or Rangers? As far as I know, Mesmers and Thieves are the only ones with alot of stealth, or alot of clutter.

Thieves and mesmers can drop target through stealth… But acquiring a target is hard with all the minion necros or the odd spirit ranger…

totaly agree with OP. It gives a huge advantage to some classes because the player needs to target the player many times and whe he does that he is not atacking.

Solution:
The players when go in stealth should lose target as well and only could be able to target again when revealed. Its fair for both sides

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

What does that have to do with Necromancers? Or Rangers? As far as I know, Mesmers and Thieves are the only ones with alot of stealth, or alot of clutter.

Thieves and mesmers can drop target through stealth… But acquiring a target is hard with all the minion necros or the odd spirit ranger…

I like how you conveniently ommitted mentioning mesmer clones/phantasms there.

Stealth, Clones/Phantasms, Minions, Ranger Spirits… Anything that gives a bunch of clutter is basically designed for PvP. I mean, really, does anyone think that MM necroes are even halfway viable in PvE with the current minion AI? Ranger Spirits, again, even less viable in PvE, and stealth is basically (AFAIK) only used to increase Backstab DPS.

Complaining that people are using these distractions for precisely the function they were created just shows a lack of thought about the design and implementation of the game as a whole. Solution to clutter in PvP? Sufficient application of AoE. Solution to stealth? Again, AoE.

As long as a build doesn’t ROFLBBQPWN everyone with little or no player skill and interaction required, I fail to see why it needs to be nerfed. Instead, builds need to be developed that can counter it. That’s what PvP build-creation is all about: you either run with a popular and effective build, or develop strategies to counter said popular and effective builds.

At least, that’s my experience from GW1, I haven’t actually done too much sPvP in GW2 but I doubt that it’ll have changed too much (build-wars-wise I mean, obviously there have been some massive changes to gameplay)

Just take some screenshots of all the screen pollution that happens in game. Then look at them after. Then cry at how ridiculous it is.

Yes loosing target lock on an enemy is HUGE because getting it back is such a pain in the kitten with all the crap running around on screen. Its way too overboard in my opinion and personally I think anet needs to do something about it.

You have to understand that stealth is only a gimmick. When you learn to predict their movement (and timing) from experience…a lot of that damage could be avoided and/or you could kill them through it.

Stealth is not a invuln, it’s simply going invisible…you can still hit them with anything that you would normally be able to hit them with…

Just play more against them and you’ll see that stealth isn’t as strong as you think.

Actually speculating on thief-movements gave me some good times. While Aoe-Bombing in complete rage till everything’s on cooldown – that awkward silence when you notice: “thief’s gone”.

These moments are gold. :D

Amaterasu.6280:

You have to understand that stealth is only a gimmick. When you learn to predict their movement (and timing) from experience…a lot of that damage could be avoided and/or you could kill them through it.

Stealth is not a invuln, it’s simply going invisible…you can still hit them with anything that you would normally be able to hit them with…

Just play more against them and you’ll see that stealth isn’t as strong as you think.

says the thief…

I know thieves and mesmers are 2 of the most op classes right now, but this thing you said its nonsense, think about it, someone disappears in front of you, you dont know where they are, if they appear behind you, you cant know it, if you didnt loose the target there will be no point in these mechanics to be implemented in first place, because when the guy appears you will know inmediatly where they are and this is just not intended to be.

Fenrir.5493:

I know thieves and mesmers are 2 of the most op classes right now.

That’s a pretty bold accusation. Do you have any research or solid facts to back you up? If not, then I could easily say “I know that Bunker Guardians is the most OP class right now” solely due to the fact that I struggle to kill them as my current Thief build and level of skill. On my Mesmer, however, I struggle against a different class. But I don’t play my Mesmer, I play my Thief, so let’s forget that part…

tl;dr – Back up your facts with research/evidence , and if not then express it as an opinion.

In my opinion, Stealth is a Thief’s defense. Mesmers hide in Clones, Guardians have good toughness and great Boons, and so forth. Could you imagine if Thieves had a near-useless Stealth? It would not even be able to compete against other classes. Mesmer’s Clones can be a hassle with regards to targeting, but I understand that it is there as their primary means of defense. They’re Illusionists, as Thieves lurk within the shadows.

tl;dr – Stealth is a Thief’s method of defending himself, other classes have their own method.

I really try to be a sneaky Necromancer. I really do.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

What does that have to do with Necromancers? Or Rangers? As far as I know, Mesmers and Thieves are the only ones with alot of stealth, or alot of clutter.

It’s a valid point. Sometimes necros or even rangers can get AoE stealthed. And rangers have a trait that stealths them on daze.

I main a mesmer myself and regularly use it to break target. I like doing it, but I can’t help but feel that I’m cheating a bit.

A lot of the time it’s not really Player vs. Player, more like Player vs. Player + AI.

In fact, it’s not too dissimilar to PvE – only with another player attacking you as well. I personally feel there are too many “non-human” players in PvP and yes, it gives a massive advantage to certain classes. I realize that pets, minions, etc. are intrinsic to some classes but really, I’d just like to fight other people and not enemy mobs and other people at the same time.

Malidus.8360:

Fenrir.5493:

I know thieves and mesmers are 2 of the most op classes right now.

That’s a pretty bold accusation. Do you have any research or solid facts to back you up? If not, then I could easily say “I know that Bunker Guardians is the most OP class right now” solely due to the fact that I struggle to kill them as my current Thief build and level of skill. On my Mesmer, however, I struggle against a different class. But I don’t play my Mesmer, I play my Thief, so let’s forget that part…

tl;dr – Back up your facts with research/evidence , and if not then express it as an opinion.

In my opinion, Stealth is a Thief’s defense. Mesmers hide in Clones, Guardians have good toughness and great Boons, and so forth. Could you imagine if Thieves had a near-useless Stealth? It would not even be able to compete against other classes. Mesmer’s Clones can be a hassle with regards to targeting, but I understand that it is there as their primary means of defense. They’re Illusionists, as Thieves lurk within the shadows.

tl;dr – Stealth is a Thief’s method of defending himself, other classes have their own method.

Its not an acussation its a FACT, no other classes have the same survivality damage output like those, they are the most played clases right now, rangers too but they are getting nerfed a bit they should nerf they regen too but its an advance…

I have a warrior and then i switched to a mesmer and im just having a blast with him, learning how to use it is just too easy, it is fun to use it, and it has a lot of survivality even when he is downed i manged to escape a lot of very hard situiations that would be an automatic dead to my warrior, then the thieves they have the ability to burst you down without you even knowing what hapened, they can enter stealth anytime in battle, they can heal in stealh, they can recieve damage and they are not poped out of stealth so, yeah they are overpowered, they need to balace the stealth mechanics, i played a rougue in WOW and the stealth mechanics in there were fair, not anyone could just jump in to a rougue and be good with him because first the stealth mechanics like are said was fair and balanced and second they cant burst to dead someone with an opener from stealth, that is the most over powered mechanic right now.

Dropping target via stealth isn’t an issue in small fights. But, in large fights with all the special effects and etc flashing around, it is very advantageous especially if you are being focused.

Ways to counter are to have members of the team mark target if possible so others can just re-target faster.

Enmity.3428:

A lot of the time it’s not really Player vs. Player, more like Player vs. Player + AI.

In fact, it’s not too dissimilar to PvE – only with another player attacking you as well. I personally feel there are too many “non-human” players in PvP and yes, it gives a massive advantage to certain classes. I realize that pets, minions, etc. are intrinsic to some classes but really, I’d just like to fight other people and not enemy mobs and other people at the same time.

Agree 100%, way too much ai/pets in this game
I still feel like with mesmers you fight the game more then the actual player

@kirito.4138
this is exactly how my ninja-neer survives in team fights brah :P!!

@Raijinn.9065
only because my bugged izerker hits people for up to 7k+ dmg on my phantasm build while i chat on facebook doesnt mean you’re not fighting me….

google.3709:

@kirito.4138
this is exactly how my ninja-neer survives in team fights brah :P!!

@Raijinn.9065
only because my bugged izerker hits people for up to 7k+ dmg on my phantasm build while i chat on facebook doesnt mean you’re not fighting me….

Bugged izerker and 7k don’t belong in the same sentence… Seriously.. also that skill sometimes simply does not attack

at all… it just stands there and stares at the mob… Now tell me how that’s OP?

izerker is just about positioning, when you first cast it, it will spawn right next to the person, if they are standing still they will get hit a few times, if they run away from it, it will hit many times, if they run want towards it, it will hits once.. and if they are against a wall, it will do really high hits. damage varies a lot so its really different when people test it on golem than actually using it on real combat.

Decrypter.1785:

Is it just me that thinks that losing target when players stealth is a huge advantage ?

In a team fight full of minions/clones/spirits/pets , losing targets is a huge advantage

Im seeing way more mesmers/necros/rangers atm just because Trying to Tab target is impossible then when you manage to finally find the player they stealth and lose target lol . Some people actually try n use right click to target , good luck with that also

None player AI is making a mockery of Tpvp

Maybe don’t tab targets…just saying…don’t tell me that in a 5ppl team noone is able to call a target after stealth so everyone can just T back on him…are you all looking at your feet or what?

Fenrir.5493:

I know thieves and mesmers are 2 of the most op classes right now, but this thing you said its nonsense, think about it, someone disappears in front of you, you dont know where they are, if they appear behind you, you cant know it, if you didnt loose the target there will be no point in these mechanics to be implemented in first place, because when the guy appears you will know inmediatly where they are and this is just not intended to be.

The nonsense that you speak of comes from experience – and here’s why:

“Someone disappears in front of you, you dont know where they are, if they appear behind you, you cant know it”

^That comes strictly from experience – and I don’t mean from hotjoins. If you’ve 1v1ed thieves enough or know the class well, there shouldn’t be much problem determining where they are after a regular stealth duration (3s) You have to think like a thief. If they stealth when fighting against you, where do you think they are going?…80% of the time they are going BEHIND YOU, to backstab, because that’s the only real reason to go stealth to attack. Even if they can’t get behind you, they will most likely be in melee distance from you. Start AOEing, dodging, blocking, etc…thieves are VERY vulnerable to AOE and it screws them up a lot. If you are AOEing point blank, more often than not the thief will eat most of the damage, or be forced to back off and be unstealthed after 3s.

Stealth is only 3s long untraited, and in combat you can’t travel very far in 3s…as a experienced thief I can tell you that 3s is really just barely enough time to maybe land a backstab properly. That being said, you are wrong that they just disappear and you have no idea where they are…think like a thief and you’ll fight them better. Your thoughts seem to come from a lack of experience. Outside of hotjoins, thieves are one of the hardest classes to play in Tpvp properly…and they are FAR from OP. We’ve been getting nerfed every patch so it boggles me that people are still so persistent in calling them OP…

I never have had trouble targetin people, i dont even understand whats so hard about clicking things….
People here admitted that tab targeting is too slow, but still insist on using it, why O.o?

Tabbing through players to acquire targets…
Options>disable npc names>disable ally names>enable enemy names only

Now rock dogs, minions, clones, pets names are off screen and only enemy player names appear. I hope this helps you with your targeting.

I would also add, an option to disable skill descriptions from popping up whenever you hoover over a skill icon would be awesome. On my most played classes I don’t really need to be reminded what skill does what and at times I personally find it can be distracting from game play.

If I was going to ask for a major biggie…adjustable huds like gw1. A player can re-position their weapon skill slots..move their entire skill bar to side screen, move cond/boon icons, and move mini map/dialogue panels. All these things help improve targeting as a player can position data in places that don’t require them to take their eyes off their intended target so much.

I also kinda feel in PvE when I am standing next to mega dragon and a hit target nearest enemy and nothing happens..so I click on it’s leg, it’s head, it’s body..still no luck..then I click on the ground beneath it’s belly,…bingo..I’ve got my lock now. Seems strange that a target that huge on screen can take a number of attempts to target.

Amaterasu.6280:

Fenrir.5493:

I know thieves and mesmers are 2 of the most op classes right now, but this thing you said its nonsense, think about it, someone disappears in front of you, you dont know where they are, if they appear behind you, you cant know it, if you didnt loose the target there will be no point in these mechanics to be implemented in first place, because when the guy appears you will know inmediatly where they are and this is just not intended to be.

The nonsense that you speak of comes from experience – and here’s why:

“Someone disappears in front of you, you dont know where they are, if they appear behind you, you cant know it”

^That comes strictly from experience – and I don’t mean from hotjoins. If you’ve 1v1ed thieves enough or know the class well, there shouldn’t be much problem determining where they are after a regular stealth duration (3s) You have to think like a thief. If they stealth when fighting against you, where do you think they are going?…80% of the time they are going BEHIND YOU, to backstab, because that’s the only real reason to go stealth to attack. Even if they can’t get behind you, they will most likely be in melee distance from you. Start AOEing, dodging, blocking, etc…thieves are VERY vulnerable to AOE and it screws them up a lot. If you are AOEing point blank, more often than not the thief will eat most of the damage, or be forced to back off and be unstealthed after 3s.

Stealth is only 3s long untraited, and in combat you can’t travel very far in 3s…as a experienced thief I can tell you that 3s is really just barely enough time to maybe land a backstab properly. That being said, you are wrong that they just disappear and you have no idea where they are…think like a thief and you’ll fight them better. Your thoughts seem to come from a lack of experience. Outside of hotjoins, thieves are one of the hardest classes to play in Tpvp properly…and they are FAR from OP. We’ve been getting nerfed every patch so it boggles me that people are still so persistent in calling them OP…

The nonesense you speak of comes from not reading and not uderstanding the point of what is said, i was giving an example of what would happen if someone disapeared in front of you.

And i was actually defending the mechanic smart guy but i will put it simple so you can understand it:

As i said, the mechanic would be pointless if you could recover the target after the enemy disapeared, it has no sense.

By the way, im only defending this, the target, im not defending the thief at all because stealth sure needs a balance its too OP right now, if the stealth mechanics were like in wow, there would be a LOT less thieves in the game for sure.

lol wow is a different game, you cant really compare the mechanics while theres more factors involved such as theives having the lowest baseline health.

but really im more confused by something else….. if your so pleased with wow stealth mechanics……why are you here on gw2?

echo.2053:

lol wow is a different game, you cant really compare the mechanics while theres more factors involved such as theives having the lowest baseline health.

but really im more confused by something else….. if your so pleased with wow stealth mechanics……why are you here on gw2?

Im just comparing fair mechanics with cheap OP ones.