Guild Wars 2

Then you should just imagine if anet actually makes the class skill-based.. you’d probably do better.

FOX.3015:

The annoyance in this game comes from equal reward not being given for equal effort.

Spamming one or two buttons cannot be effective for any class in this game, because it discourages players to become better.

Why should I play the class that requires a ton of effort, when I can just play another class that spams one button and is still effective, and even multitask coffee sipping.

You can’t have two classes with similar roles have vastly different skill requirements, in regards to effective mechanical play, in a competitive environment.

For this game to not only be competitive, but fun, there needs to be EFFECTIVE counter-play to fighting anything a single player may come across.

Counter: “To move, act, or respond so as to be in opposition.”

This game needs to be all about counter-play. Anet needs to give every class appropriate tells to every ability of concern to other players.

All one-shot mechanics need to be removed or given proper tells/timings so that they may be avoided by other players.

An example of this is ‘backstab’ for thieves. Backstab is nearly instant and can one-shot, but the counter-play for this is that a thief requires stealth to backstab. So when a thief stealths, typically the other player knows that there is at least a 3-second window where they may in fact be backstabbed. This player has been given time to react to the thief stealthing, and may now prepare for the backstab.

The fresh-air burst on elementalist is almost another good example. The fresh-air trait has a 5-second cooldown, so after it’s used once, the other player know’s they have 5 more seconds before they have to worry about it again. The only problem here is that there is no requirement to use this ability at any time, meaning that good player will simply bait you’re dodges and force you to eat it every time. Against a good player, there really is no counter-play, except to eat/random dodge the burst and pressure them down before the next one.

So just so we are clear here: you believe a stealthed up thief HAS counter play because they will hit you in the next 3 seconds and isnt a means to bait out defensive cooldowns and dodges from their victim, but some how fresh air ele can?

LOL this whole post is a contradiction. Hope off thief and actually try to play fresh air ele or any zerk amulet outside of thief and medi guard in soloQ, then comeback and edit or delete your post.

Frost

Battle sense, calculating your next best move (ie. should I go beast or try to 1v1 thief at home to get it back at 465-475 score?), and thinking strategically is more important in ranked arenas than memorizing the 145223512315123125123123 combo you read from meta websites. If you want to show off your keyboard piano skills, do it on mindless 1v1 duel maps.

Patchi.9061:

Again, have you read my post? This is not about Competitive play whatsoever, however it indirectly effects it, and here’s why:

Getting into competitive play actually requires the person to be motivated and interested in improving as a player first, then improving as a team. That being said, rotations, communication, mechanics, and positioning etc.. come into play. However, how do you expect people to enjoy this game knowing that they got “outplayed” by someone who just summons turrets and runs around, spams 1 and waits for procs, etc etc…

That being said, you cannot compare IP with spinal shivers. IP does not result in a 1 shot 1 kill. You just can’t compare the two passives. There is a lot of way you can deal with burns, engi is a problem but not that big of a problem AT THE MOMENT.

Stop focusing on complaining about every single aspect in this game, it won’t lead to nowhere… haven’t you learned that anet can’t multitask?

Like i said in my post, celestial engi/ele/warrior are by far not balanced. However, this is irrelevant to this post. This post is about MINDLESS gameplay. Positioning, rotations, communication and all those cool stuff come with ANY CLASS YOU PLAY. However, when you play a class that requires 0 brain skills, and 0 inteligence aside from what I mentioned above that makes you a “better” player…. then those classes do not reward SKILL what so ever.

Skill in my opinion (this is where i am subjective) is how you OUTPLAY your opponents. How do necros outplay? they don’t…their passives do. How do turrets engis outplay? they don’t…their turrets do. How do rangers outplay? they don’t they are in a very bad position at the moment and require a rework.

Now dear sir, to summarise this post for you one last time and I hope I don’t have to repeat myself….

The classes I mentioned are brainless, I am NOT saying that the cele builds are not broken. What I am saying…in order for this game to have more teams…more players..better leaderboards..and generally a better and more competitve community… it all is on ANETS hand to reward skilled gameplay and punish brainless ones. Promote and encourage players to play classes and builds that actually requires your brain to function rather than just kiting around or spamming 1. Please tell me more about how you can be a better power necro by positioning… I don’t wanna repeat myself anymore..whenever you are writing the next post re-read what I said i’m pretty sure the answer is there.

Mindless gameplay is just your personal interpretation of it.

“Oh, geez, I just tanked a necro to the point spinal shivers procs on me. Of course, I didn’t do anything wrong at all in that encounter!” Seems to be your rationalization of it. Usually when I get rekt by either of those classes, I look at what I could have done better in the situation. And if I got +1ed by ranger and necro fighting something else, so be it. Any class besides necro or ranger has the ability to put a lot of pressure on me unless the person I am already fighting is bad enough where I haven’t jettisoned my CDs to survive.

Ask any thief or mesmer who has happened to run out of CDs whether they would prefer dying to burning or spinal shivers. They may have an opinion on it, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter which killed them. They still have to respawn. And burning might actually delay them dying and respawning as fast.

You can talk about all this to the end of times, but at the end of the day, it’s just your personal opinion and not really objective facts.

You know what? you are right.
Anet is not wrong at all, it needs to make these builds for you guys since you guys are really stupid and can only play such classes. Enjoy your broken game.

I apologies anet, your interest was indeed for the player base, I guess.
I can’t believe people are defending power necros…sigh.

Patchi.9061:

You know what? you are right.
Anet is not wrong at all, it needs to make these builds for you guys since you guys are really stupid and can only play such classes. Enjoy your broken game.

I apologies anet, your interest was indeed for the player base, I guess.
I can’t believe people are defending power necros…sigh.

The spec is bad. Its more surprising that you’re so upset about it. at least in my opinion.

Plus you’re being a hypocrite about IP on engineers.

simple != mindless

also having 1million skills spread over 4 weapon setups with no cooldown doesn’t equal skill in my book, it just means you’re better at pressing lots of buttons?

if anything, a power necro has to manage 2 resources = life force and death shroud cooldown, engi doesn’t really need anything of that except for keeping in mind the cooldown of your kit skills.

such skill.

Yes turn this post into power necro vs cele engi, coz thats exactly what this post is about. Lmao later buds.

Patchi.9061:

You know what? you are right.
Anet is not wrong at all, it needs to make these builds for you guys since you guys are really stupid and can only play such classes. Enjoy your broken game.

I apologies anet, your interest was indeed for the player base, I guess.
I can’t believe people are defending power necros…sigh.

Considering when you were paired with me on a team while I was duo-queuing with a frand on my engineer (no voice comm), and you continuously got yourself rekt at far for no real good reason while I don’t believe I even died once from being aware what I was pushing and what was going to push me before it happened. I would write it off as a bad game for you, but I saw you face tank Falselights into oblivion, a known burnguard, and solid counter to engie. I would refrain from personal insults, as you seem to fall into the “I’m so good, nothing I ever do is wrong” mindset.

I have ~25 games on necro. A few were power a few were terrormancer. I don’t enjoy the class all that much. On the other hand, I don’t get upset if a necro procs me when I am equally capable of proc’ing them in a fight, and have methods of not dying to them at my whim when I play intelligently. Ranger I believe I have only once player power on. And the rest were condi. Which in my opinion is way more “cheesy” of a build than the power variant.

I get why you don’t like certain things. AI builds shouldn’t really exist because unlike anything else in the game, it doesn’t promote skillful play and allows a player to develop the essentials all other builds including those dastardly power rangers and necros. If rangers and necros were entirely skilless and braindead classes then all necros and rangers should be equally skilled at it.

adozu.6398:

simple != mindless

also having 1million skills spread over 4 weapon setups with no cooldown doesn’t equal skill in my book, it just means you’re better at pressing lots of buttons?

if anything, a power necro has to manage 2 resources = life force and death shroud cooldown, engi doesn’t really need anything of that except for keeping in mind the cooldown of your kit skills.

such skill.

Yes, you are perfectly right. lol’d.

i insist that chaning engi pull with prybar, then rifle cc and then nade spam isn’t any more skillful than having to build up lifeforce then chaining DS cc and lifeblasts. oh yes, necro will get chill at 50%, at least you keep above 50% to counter that. can’t really do kitten about engi burn.

No. You are just making foolish comments. Like “YOU CAN’T COMPARE TWO PASSIVES LIEKOMGZORS.” You have been strawmanning the entire time. Like trying to say anyone defending the two classes of being anything other than brainless is stupid or skill-less. Even if in my own main is engie, and the other classes are just stuff I feel like playing when I’m bored.

If I was stupid I would revert to ad hominems like you are doing. Or I would type stuff like, “I don’t know why I am discussing this any longer. Bye!” and continue to keep posting.

(offtopic: to be perfectly fair, anectodes about how he’s played bad on a certain match to discret his point already fall into the category of ad hominem)

It was a retort. I am a gentleman until someone starts casting stones.

I agree with much of what have said.
I was trying to complete some pvp achievements today, so played 2 matches and give up. On the last match we faced a complete pre made team of guardians. Once we saw it we already knew the match was lost since we were all solo.

" Anet…. expansion is coming…this is your real last chance to prove to everyone to coming back to this game that there is esports….The first thing the old players are gonna do is solo q or even team q….your game is flooded with turrets, liches, and mindless gameplay. What do you think their first reaction will be? Do you honestly wanna pursue esports or are you just a making a terrible saddistic joke out of us and slowley killing your game?"

offensive passives like IP and Chill of death are both bad for pvp in gw2.
If there had to be passives in the game they shouldnt be that decisive in the way u play or how the fight ends.

defensive passives are the same problem for me. A passive stunbreak punishes the opponent who tried to interrupt a keyskill. At least make those visible for gods sake.

AI builds should never be more effective than any non AI build. If we wanted to play against npcs we would play pve.

One of the main dmgsources of powernecros is sadly spamming ds 1. Id like to see some changes in ds and also weapons skills for power necros that they dont just have to spam the 1.

Power Lb Ranger. The Problem with ranged dmg is, you dont have to set up your burst. You can just press the buttons and do a lot of dmg. You simply can´t dodge as much as there are arrows flying in your direction. At least tone down the range id say..

Weez.6315:

offensive passives like IP and Chill of death are both bad for pvp in gw2.
If there had to be passives in the game they shouldnt be that decisive in the way u play or how the fight ends.

defensive passives are the same problem for me. A passive stunbreak punishes the opponent who tried to interrupt a keyskill. At least make those visible for gods sake.

AI builds should never be more effective than any non AI build. If we wanted to play against npcs we would play pve.

One of the main dmgsources of powernecros is sadly spamming ds 1. Id like to see some changes in ds and also weapons skills for power necros that they dont just have to spam the 1.

Power Lb Ranger. The Problem with ranged dmg is, you dont have to set up your burst. You can just press the buttons and do a lot of dmg. You simply can´t dodge as much as there are arrows flying in your direction. At least tone down the range id say..

I take that back, not everyone in the community is stupid. Thank you sir.

If your gonna complain about some passives, you have to complain about all of them. That means everything that happens automatically. As a necro, I’m all for removing Chill of Death, but the means IP and a slew of other things have to go aswell. The problem is one, this requires a lot of work, and two, how do you differentiate between passive and uncounterable stuff. For instance, COD is completely passive, but at least you know it’s coming at 50% health were as a medi guard damage isn’t passive, but is completely uncounterable against someone who knows what they are doing. As developers, were is Anet supposed to draw that line because I’d argue meditation guard is far more unfair than COD.

I think paw made some really good points and I strongly agree with a lot of them. There are certain builds you cannot tell a good player from a bad player (turret engi, power ranger) other than positioning and general game knowledge.

And he brings up something very important in my opinion. only a few of us actually participate in tournaments where the player skill is high enough where these builds are not optimal. The fact of the matter is that these builds are extremely optimal for the majority of the player base, which are in solo/team ques.

I do think that balance should be for high tier play, which in my opinion is pretty balanced (just looking at the comps of different high tier teams and how diverse they are). But i also think that balance should be at least a little focused on casual play. maybe make builds like turret engies, where there is little risk for high reward in unorganized play (solo q) less viable.

I do know players who have quit pvp and tried to come back to it, only to end up quitting again due to so many annoying “no-skill” builds like turret engies being so popular.

On the other hand you do have to consider nerfing turret engies might effect the pvp population negatively because there are so many people who play this build only. But imo for the over all health of the game (especially with old player coming back to try the game again with he expansion) it will be better to get rid of some of these builds that frustrate players to the point of quitting