A Stronghold Rework?

A Stronghold Rework?

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Posted by: Grandmaster Yo.4327

Grandmaster Yo.4327

With the month being given a “Competitive Feature Pack”, I was saddened to see that Stronghold was not going to be given any love. Almost two years since the mode has been added and the most they’ve given is 1 more mist champion and a couple extra skins? I though by now Anet would realize that it’s time for the mode to have a major overhaul to make a more prominent component of the PvP scene.

I was wondering if the following suggestions would make any other fellow PvP casuals more interested.

First and foremost the mode is supposed to be casual, correct? It was removed from Ranked queue for that very reason. It’s a bridge mode between PvE/WvW and Conquest.

I think the biggest aspect to make the mode a more casual play would be to increase the team cap. 8v8 at minimum, 12v12 at the most (reminiscent of old Alliance Battles). The rest suggestions and numbers operate on the notion that the mode could be 10v10 which I feel would be the optimal amount, capable of being two full parties or any number of iterations with soloers, 2/3/4 man teams.

The biggest barrier for me is the reliance on NPCs to make progress in the mode. Remove that need and make all the actions focused around the players.
*Supply no longer creates doorbreakers or archers but creates bombs as items that players use to breakdown the gates

Bombs have an effect similar to the orb in spirit watch, removing access to skills, specific dodges (i.e. Daredevil dodges) but unlike the orb you allowed to be buffed (both with boons and others like stealth/superspeed). The effect also makes it so that getting hit by an enemy guard or siege causes you to drop the bomb (it also explodes)

Bombs have four skills

  1. – Throw bomb (Range 900) deal damage to target area and inflicts 5% of the gates health if it hits.
  2. – Plant bomb (240 radius, 1 second cast time) deal damage, knockback and inflict 10% of the gates health
  3. – Bomber’s sprint – Leap? 3s Superspeed? 5s swiftness? (something like that) 10-15s cd?
  4. – Bomb (smash?) (3/4s cast) Stun an enemy for 1s – 10s CD

Capturing Mist essence no longer summons an Mist Hero but causes the player who captured it to transform into the Mist Hero they have selected

o The transformation is standard across all professions (i.e. your stats/traits do not matter)

o The stats/abilities of your hero and dependent on which one you have selected

o When transformed you can be buffed but your icon appears permanently on the mini map

o You are given a breakbar

o An F1 charge ability that does massive damage to NPCs (i.e. the Lord) like the current NPCs have

In the scenario where more maps could be added, create certain themes for supply and additional capture points to use.

o For example make the current map siege focused. Add 4 additional ballista points (2 in the neutral area, one additional point in each base) that require two supply to build for team control

o Add an additional capture point that spawns reinforcement guards to bolster defense

o Additional map themes could be traps (supply allows for teams to build on certain trap points or return to their base and create less effective placeable traps), or points that spawn weapons, npcs with specific functions (get a tag that summons assassins, summon a raging beast to disrupt a limited area ), create minor transformations, etc. The possibilities are probably greater than WvW gimmicks.

Another important feature would be to add a quick-add feature for those in a queue (though if this isn’t supported by either players or devs I’d request at least the same kind of feature within a two minute grace period so that even if a player leaves early on, their spot can be filled rather quickly)

What do you all think? What else could they do to buff Stronghold? I think a higher player cap mode in sPvP could go a long ways for casual play. Alongside that even the new 2v2 with additional maps could go a long ways in a queue (though so sad to hear they confirmed it would just be with custom games). Other modes like 3 team King of the hill (5v5v5) could be done on maps that already exist (take out certain portions of the city maps for example)

There’s just so much potential for chaotic and casual modes in unranked queue, it’d be great to see or even at least hear about some progress to the PvP scene that doesn’t revolve around the ranked/competitive scene (which generally gets shot down anyway by complaints about matchmaking, balance, toxicity, leavers, etc.)

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Stronghold rework….this game mode is not played at all.
They are working with the few devs remaining on next unballanced specialisations.
I doubt they will do anything.

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Posted by: NotASmurf.1725

NotASmurf.1725

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

I’m not sure if I agree. Unless you are saying mobas are for pve audiences?

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

I’m not sure if I agree. Unless you are saying mobas are for pve audiences?

Derail topic imminent!

Anywho, I too agree with the above posters. Stronghold isn’t worth Dev time…being… I don’t want a whole year of 0 SPvP content just because they’re working on Stronghold. That’s exactly what will happen. The game mode will just have to wait till the next expansion.

As for suggestions, why not make it more like a Moba? I’d like to earn trait points and create my build throughout the game mode within a period of 15-20minutes.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Stronghold is so counter-intuitive its a terrible choice for PvE players to start PvPing. Offense is better flanked by support builds and defense is better flanked by dps builds. How is anyone supposed to know?

Don’t get me started about the NPC summoning, the supply, the mist champions. None of these things visually denote your success in the game.

Look at DotA, its so simple. Your army moves forward, they attack everything in sight. Towers go down, bases get trashed. You win.

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Posted by: Magnito.6187

Magnito.6187

The biggest barrier for me is the reliance on NPCs to make progress in the mode. Remove that need and make all the actions focused around the players.

Wether devs have the time to rework Stronghold or not,
he makes a very good point. Good job.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

I’m not sure if I agree. Unless you are saying mobas are for pve audiences?

Derail topic imminent!

Anywho, I too agree with the above posters. Stronghold isn’t worth Dev time…being… I don’t want a whole year of 0 SPvP content just because they’re working on Stronghold. That’s exactly what will happen. The game mode will just have to wait till the next expansion.

As for suggestions, why not make it more like a Moba? I’d like to earn trait points and create my build throughout the game mode within a period of 15-20minutes.

I think the problem with stronghold is there are just too many things going on at once. Grabbing supplies, running back to the fort to summon skritt , defending your lane, attacking the enemy lane, destroying enemy treb (if needed), fighting over the hero summon and then finally attacking and defending the lord.

Its just too much. Especially for 5v5. It might felt better if it was 8v8, but who knows.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
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Posted by: Gamble.4580

Gamble.4580

8v8 is a nice idea for guild missions. But knowing anet they will make it 2v2 lmao

[UNTY] Unity guild -AG server
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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Stronghold suffered from the fact ANet didn’t push it at all. They should have actually had tournaments with it instead of “We’ll see what the players compete in” and then only hosting Conquest tourneys during the “trial” period.

After all, why bother playing and getting good at a mode that never will get you actual rewards?

This would have increased attention and given opportunities for iteration on the mode. Instead, they just put it out there and let it fail.

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

I LOVE Stronghold. I much prefer it over Conquest, in fact, but it seems I’m in the minority among the PvP crowd. I remember when it was first introduced, a lot of players derided it with comments like “If I wanted to kill NPCs, I’d just go PvE.” However, I’m more inclined to think that most disliked it because of the sudden need for different “roles” in the game mode. Unlike in Conquest, where you can more or less build for maximum damage and increase your chances of winning (it is, after all, all about making sure you kill the enemy team faster), that won’t necessarily guarantee victory in Stronghold. You need somebody who is mobile and can run supplies/operate the treb, you need someone who is tanky/has enough Stability to summon Heroes, you need someone who can keep your doorbreakers alive long enough to do their job, and then you need your classic DPS guys to kill enemy NPCs and the enemy team.

This variance means that a LOT of different builds which normally wouldn’t fly in Conquest can actually work in Stronghold, because they fulfill two or more of these roles. And build diversity is something that GW2 PvP as a whole could BADLY use more of.

If there is one change I would make to Stronghold, it would be this: Archers need to be made more dangerous. There’s generally very little reason to summon them unless all the gates are broken and there’s no point in sending doorbreakers anymore with spare supplies you have. I would propose making them slightly tougher and giving them a line-based ground attack similar to what the Mordrem Snipers in HoT do; this attack does high damage to players and guards (but only moderate damage against the Lord and light damage against gates), meaning that the enemy team cannot afford to simply ignore Archers as inconsequential apart from killing guards. In larger numbers (say 4+), Archers can easily down an enemy player (especially one that’s focused purely on offense), and even one or two Archers might turn the tide of a battle between players because their ground attack force them to use dodges and changes the battlefield.

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Posted by: Jekkt.6045

Jekkt.6045

when stronghold was in beta players provided an incredible amount of feedback for the devs. the devs didn’t seem to care and didn’t do anything. you release a new game mode and then you let it die at the same time?

first they released courtyard – dead
then they released stronghold – dead
now they release 2v2
see a pattern?

Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

when stronghold was in beta players provided an incredible amount of feedback for the devs. the devs didn’t seem to care and didn’t do anything. you release a new game mode and then you let it die at the same time?

first they released courtyard – dead
then they released stronghold – dead
now they release 2v2
see a pattern?

Yep. Definitely.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

I played it to get the title for it and started to enjoy it. Having a game mode besides conquest is a good thing. That was what I liked the most about halls in GW1. You had to win at several different game modes with the same build to do well at it.

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Posted by: Tyrion.9015

Tyrion.9015

Copy Guild Wars PVP and maybe (and i say maybe cuz i dunnow if it’d fit with gw2’s playstyle) you can see a good PVP.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

Stronghold suffered from the fact ANet didn’t push it at all. They should have actually had tournaments with it instead of “We’ll see what the players compete in” and then only hosting Conquest tourneys during the “trial” period.

After all, why bother playing and getting good at a mode that never will get you actual rewards?

This would have increased attention and given opportunities for iteration on the mode. Instead, they just put it out there and let it fail.

It was in 2 tournaments, 1 at release of the stronghold and 1 later where the Abjured won both for NA.

Even in S1-2 when i did que up for Stronghold those ESL teams were 5 man queing it and it never became more obvious of how broken it was until i saw that.

Literally 5 man groups running with the door breakers and twice i literally said they full 5 man push it so we summoned like 3 archers and 2 door breakers and all 5 of us went to defense and we couldnt kill the door breakers or them.

I find stronghold to be very fun when you just got people running around, fighting each other for champions and playing it like it suppose to be played.

But for competitive play it is the worst thing ive ever seen.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

I’m not sure if I agree. Unless you are saying mobas are for pve audiences?

Derail topic imminent!

Anywho, I too agree with the above posters. Stronghold isn’t worth Dev time…being… I don’t want a whole year of 0 SPvP content just because they’re working on Stronghold. That’s exactly what will happen. The game mode will just have to wait till the next expansion.

As for suggestions, why not make it more like a Moba? I’d like to earn trait points and create my build throughout the game mode within a period of 15-20minutes.

uhhhhh a absolute no, this is the first season of LoL where i did ranked and i lost the interest to play after 20 games.

Silver 5 scrub here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Stronghold is the last thing in the world they should spend dev time at. It’s a failed attempt at copying mobas for an MMO.

Stronghold is PvP for PvE players. PvE players are better off with pure PvE content and PvP players benefit more from new maps and PvP gamemodes. Stronghold has no target audience, or at least not more than a few dozen players.

I’m not sure if I agree. Unless you are saying mobas are for pve audiences?

Derail topic imminent!

Anywho, I too agree with the above posters. Stronghold isn’t worth Dev time…being… I don’t want a whole year of 0 SPvP content just because they’re working on Stronghold. That’s exactly what will happen. The game mode will just have to wait till the next expansion.

As for suggestions, why not make it more like a Moba? I’d like to earn trait points and create my build throughout the game mode within a period of 15-20minutes.

uhhhhh a absolute no, this is the first season of LoL where i did ranked and i lost the interest to play after 20 games.

Silver 5 scrub here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea I dislike Moba games as well. Only thing I can get into is Paragon but even still, the genre just isn’t fun for me. But millions of other people absolutely love the genre so I force myself to like it too lol.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

I the only one who thinks its not PvP tailored for PvE players (as previously mentioned a few times), but for WvW players? You have siege, gates, Defender NPC’s and a lord (All WvW components)

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