Guild Wars 2

part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063173
part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

Part 1 looks a lot less intense than what it felt like playing. Getting hit by a single stun = death as an engi running a half-decent build.

Being forced to outplay people to such an extent is getting very annoying to a lot of players who don’t play easier classes. That’s what this video is about more so than any individual mistake on my part or the warrior’s.

Lol your a bird mang

You got outplayed, thats all this is, the war lined up his stuns perfectly.

‘You’ are not forced to outplay people as engi! perma vigor, spam grenades, switch bombs when they melee you, its easy not much skill.

Warriors are completely balanced. nothing to see here.

Yeah, the high risk/skill → high reward scheme doesn’t apply to GW2 that much. It’s really sad to see how some classes can dominate while being super easy to play where as other classes have to work so much harder and still cannot keep up, like elementalists.

I’m not sure what I’m looking for here. He caught you. You had no stun breakers.

The reward from the risk you took by not having any stun breakers can be seen in the first vid. The second vid shows the other side of things, when you don’t dodge or back-off at the right time.

I mean there seems to be plenty of Skill vs reward going on on your end.

Dirame.8521:

I’m not sure what I’m looking for here. He caught you. You had no stun breakers.

The reward from the risk you took by not having any stun breakers can be seen in the first vid. The second vid shows the other side of things, when you don’t dodge or back-off at the right time.

I mean there seems to be plenty of Skill vs reward going on on your end.

I don’t find engi to be nearly as strong as what other classes can bring without running a no stunbreak build. I have confidence in myself enough so that I can dodge a large number of stuns and that’s especially true considering I’m one of the most dodge-heavy specs in the game.

It’s not a video intended to convince you of the point I’m attempting to make. I believe that it’s an opinion shared by a large majority of the top level PvP community and it’s more tailored as a bit of criticism towards the game itself as an inside joke.

It’s a common frustration being FORCED to outplay someone based on their specific class/build just because their own class is at such a disadvantage. While this has happened since the game was released it has rarely been to such an extent as it has been lately and it has also recently existed with relation to easy to play classes like necromancer, LB/hammer warrior and spirit ranger

This video just goes to show how strong builds have gotten versus player skill. I understand that I’m running a no stunbreak build against a stun warrior with mace/mace hammer. That should be death and it pretty much is. But in previous incarnations of the game a semblance of skill existed amongst all classes where dynamics like this rarely existed and didn’t exist to such an extent based on crappy balance (RIP stun breaks for engis, RIP)

@Dirame: thanks for a good laugh dawg! ~

This is what happens when “insert class here” dont dodge, use stunbreakers, stand still and do nothing against “insert class here too”.

I totaly agree with your title. It was not the extreme skill of the warrior but the extreme lack of skill of the other player, he let him reach 130 range with the mace and with vigor and 2 dodges to use he just stand there. What to expect?

Ostricheggs.3742:

I don’t find engi to be nearly as strong as what other classes can bring without running a no stunbreak build. I have confidence in myself enough so that I can dodge a large number of stuns and that’s especially true considering I’m one of the most dodge-heavy specs in the game.

It’s not a video intended to convince you of the point I’m attempting to make. I believe that it’s an opinion shared by a large majority of the top level PvP community and it’s more tailored as a bit of criticism towards the game itself as an inside joke.

It’s a common frustration being FORCED to outplay someone based on their specific class/build just because their own class is at such a disadvantage. While this has happened since the game was released it has rarely been to such an extent as it has been lately and it has also recently existed with relation to easy to play classes like necromancer, LB/hammer warrior and spirit ranger

This video just goes to show how strong builds have gotten versus player skill. I understand that I’m running a no stunbreak build against a stun warrior with mace/mace hammer. That should be death and it pretty much is. But in previous incarnations of the game a semblance of skill existed amongst all classes where dynamics like this rarely existed and didn’t exist to such an extent based on crappy balance (RIP stun breaks for engis, RIP)

Every build running without stunbreaker dies that easily to a stun warrior, especially one running with mace.

Engineers have all the tools to counter warriors but of course you won’t prove anything posting a video of you dying to a stun warrior without having a stunbreaker on your bar.

That said, I don’t think that Warriors are balanced right now, but I also don’t think that Engineer is an “hard” class with a skillcap that high that gives you the right to win every fight as you are looking to claim.

Also, in past times balance wasn’t any better than it is now; there are several examples to bring back.

silentnight warrior.2714:

This is what happens when “insert class here” dont dodge, use stunbreakers, stand still and do nothing against “insert class here too”.

I totaly agree with your title. It was not the extreme skill of the warrior but the extreme lack of skill of the other player, he let him reach 130 range with the mace and with vigor and 2 dodges to use he just stand there. What to expect?

Just that you know MAYBE the burden of skill shouldn’t be entirely on one person. I love the whole “yeah op you didn’t pull of that insane skillshot correctly, its your fault!” defense, when the person they were fighting against required basically 0 skill to pull off their win AT ALL. Sheer deluded idiocy.

Everyone loves to play Monday morning quarterback.

I really hope that fixing the sigil of paralyzation will help, but there are multiple specs that really need to be brought down, primarily:

-Warrior stun builds. They can do a ton of hurt (stuns and even damage) while tanking really well and handling condis like a boss.
-Necros: they are also way too tanky given the condi-burst they can still put out. They still dominate the meta and destroy everything except OP Warr
-Spirit Ranger: got a little more skilled, but still put out way too much damage though simply auto-attacks given how tanky they can be, especially with evades
-S/D thieves: survive way too long given their dps, and just crap on the idea of positioning. They aren’t punished for making mistakes yet punish you hard even if you play correctly.

Other classes could use some shaving as well b/c they will be unreasonable when things holding them down are fixed (such as instant-burst ele, shatter and condi-mesmer can be a little crazy, and even engie conditions should be shaved slightly). I really hope the next patch does more than just supply some minor support changes and actually starts cutting away the cheese.

The relative lack of skill that CC warriors/ spirit rangers take is the most frustrating thing about them.

Double stun warriors (Mac and Hammer) are basically an instant win against necro or engineers if they get a stun in on you. In fact, necromancer has even less counter because all a warrior has to do is pop berserkers stance and you don’t even have vigor to keep up dodging.

Warrior is easy as kitten to play right now and anyone who disagrees is a kittening liar. I do better on it than on other classes that I’ve spent over 500 hours playing.

Good play and avoidance in the first video. By the time the teammate showed up you just simply had less health. It wasn’t that you died because a stun build is Op (even though it’s kittened as hell right now.)

The second one has a lot to do with the fact that skull crack animation is almost non-existent… :/

Edit: Also eggs not sure exactly what build you are running but try taking stabilized armor+protection injection. Even as a squishy you can face tank dem stuns a little better

for the people who like to argue everything just to be right:

Mace/Mace

• 1 Daze(15s cd)
• 1 Stun(7-10s cd)
• 1 Knock down 25s cd

Hammer

• 1 Stun 7-10s cd
• 1 Knock Down 24-30s cd
• 1 Push Back 20s cd

Rampage

• 1 push
• 1 Stun
• 1 Knock down

[utility]

• Stomp

so.. Engineers lowest stun break CD is 40s. vs 10 CC’s most in a lower cd, and all the warrior needs to land is 1 stun break or no stun break you realistically have to outplay them, while all the gotta do is land one of the spammable stun on you

Hahah, i had similar thing happen to me lately.
Basicly there was 1 ranger full glass cannon power build i guess, he basicly came on point i was capping, threw a total of >1< skill(that axe pull thingy) it critted and guess what? 12k damage+condi stack that literally 1 shotted my thief with 30 in shadow arts(300 extra toughness). Yeah, i was downed in 1 second by a 900 range single attack.
That’s how balanced and fun gw2 is, where you don’t need more than 1 button press to kill people.

I have to ask a question…

As an engi, I always use protection injection, because I’m afraid of bursts and I feel like any class (warrior obviously included) that wants to burst me down will try to disable me first.

Why I see a lot of people running backpack regenerator? I feel like engis without stunbreaker might be weak to stun.

Said that, I used to play stun warrior, especially before the buff. It has always been extremely strong against necros and engis. Maybe too strong, while at first it was UP in other situations.

redslion.9675:

I have to ask a question…

As an engi, I always use protection injection, because I’m afraid of bursts and I feel like any class (warrior obviously included) that wants to burst me down will try to disable me first.

Why I see a lot of people running backpack regenerator? I feel like engis without stunbreaker might be weak to stun.

Said that, I used to play stun warrior, especially before the buff. It has always been extremely strong against necros and engis. Maybe too strong, while at first it was UP in other situations.

Regenerator? To counter retaliation, you would understand it if you ever played grenade engi and tried to use them in a team fight. WIthout it you will die in seconds.

And yeah, i also run protection injection lately, just to cover lack of stun breaks engis have considering all that stun/fear spam that’s going on now.

I think the days of running around with 0 stun breakers is over, i do appreciate warriors are too strong atm with lots of passive help through cleansing ire and heal sig BUT running around with 0 stun breakers is just asking to die. You need to take some responsibility here.

mindlessly chasing…. ok, do you even play any real time strategy game?…

I found to stand a remote chance against a Warrior right now on my Ranger, I have to run 2 Stun Breakers and Rampage as One.

Anything less, is death …

It takes but 1 stun and they can almost instantly kill me running a Full Bunker build.

All the people trollin this thread must player hammer warrior!

Ostricheggs.3742:

part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063173
part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

Part 1 looks a lot less intense than what it felt like playing. Getting hit by a single stun = death as an engi running a half-decent build.

Well…
In part 1, you survived to a stun at 00:12 in the video (against the same warrior shown in part 2) – and you had nearly half of your health left after the stun expired – which is IMO rather “strong” (prot probably helped).
You didn’t do much in those first 15-20s either, and it would seem that your passive defences saved you.

In part 2, the warrior was a lot more lucky and had 4-5 crits at 2500+ and you weren’t full health at the start of fight (and you didn’t have protection up either).

Being forced to outplay people to such an extent is getting very annoying to a lot of players who don’t play easier classes. That’s what this video is about more so than any individual mistake on my part or the warrior’s.

You certainly did outplay the warrior after the first 30s of the first video, although keep in mind that the only goal of the warrior in the context of this part 1 is to kill you quickly and your goal is to survive as long as possible – but the outcome for you is still death.

By DESIGN though, trying to delay your death for as long as possible is going to be more stressful/intense:
- You have to play reactively and are rarely in control of events,
- You are constantly being harassed/aggressed by someone whose “rotation to kill” is on a 15-30s CD, which means you are facing death all the time,
- You are eventually going to die and are slowly seeing “skills attrition”

Stun warrior feels a bit like a one trick pony and can sometimes be resisted passively (as we have seen). I agree that the “skill” required to pull the move is low-ish, but it is not a guaranteed kill either.
Yes, warrior offensive and defensive capabilities are top notch, and warriors are very strong (but if we were to remove that stun, I doubt you would have died to the warrior at all).
Also, I would imagine that you provide more “utility” than the warrior can with your build.

Sweetbread.2679:

silentnight warrior.2714:

This is what happens when “insert class here” dont dodge, use stunbreakers, stand still and do nothing against “insert class here too”.

I totaly agree with your title. It was not the extreme skill of the warrior but the extreme lack of skill of the other player, he let him reach 130 range with the mace and with vigor and 2 dodges to use he just stand there. What to expect?

Just that you know MAYBE the burden of skill shouldn’t be entirely on one person. I love the whole “yeah op you didn’t pull of that insane skillshot correctly, its your fault!” defense, when the person they were fighting against required basically 0 skill to pull off their win AT ALL. Sheer deluded idiocy.

0 skill? you didn’t see that warrior was running away in the 1st place? why would a class that requires 0 skill to win run away?! i know right! mind blown!

and that warrior actually had defensive trait and stunbreaks.
thats the risk and reward right there and being outplayed for mindlessly chasing.

and you know what, a defensively speced engi can take 3 full hb of a ppv war and not going lower then 70% i know, mind blown as well, war can’t touch a stunned engi, i know, so unreal! not to mention that a single blind and their stun are wasted.

i agree, no stunbreak is harsh but without R engis are pretty meh. it’s kinda the same boat with necros as well, gotta blind/dodge random fear mark or lose (or predict instant cast DS fear lol) but all of our stunbreaks are… pretty bad and i feel like there is no reason to not run R for myself and for my team. you might argue that it’s too good but at the same time we have necromancers and s/d thieves and warriors running around (s/d thief is merely the mobility i can beat them but their back capping is bullkitten)

People seemed to miss the point again. Either that or they’re just trying to insult me or defend stun wars…

If you don’t understand why I don’t run stunbreaks then you don’t understand engis.

Lighter.5631:

Sweetbread.2679:

silentnight warrior.2714:

This is what happens when “insert class here” dont dodge, use stunbreakers, stand still and do nothing against “insert class here too”.

I totaly agree with your title. It was not the extreme skill of the warrior but the extreme lack of skill of the other player, he let him reach 130 range with the mace and with vigor and 2 dodges to use he just stand there. What to expect?

Just that you know MAYBE the burden of skill shouldn’t be entirely on one person. I love the whole “yeah op you didn’t pull of that insane skillshot correctly, its your fault!” defense, when the person they were fighting against required basically 0 skill to pull off their win AT ALL. Sheer deluded idiocy.

0 skill? you didn’t see that warrior was running away in the 1st place? why would a class that requires 0 skill to win run away?! i know right! mind blown!

and that warrior actually had defensive trait and stunbreaks.
thats the risk and reward right there and being outplayed for mindlessly chasing.

and you know what, a defensively speced engi can take 3 full hb of a ppv war and not going lower then 70% i know, mind blown as well, war can’t touch a stunned engi, i know, so unreal! not to mention that a single blind and their stun are wasted.

lol this kid. You really have to stop what you were doing in this forum, check your history by yourself, can you realize that about 90% of your post were talking crap to others? All the things you were saying just wrong. SO WRONG. It is 0 skill indeed, especially when you see a warrior running a full cc set up, you can immediatly understand that this warrior has no skills, the only thing he can do is run a cheesy spec and make himself viable.

sorrow.2364:

Ostricheggs.3742:

I don’t find engi to be nearly as strong as what other classes can bring without running a no stunbreak build. I have confidence in myself enough so that I can dodge a large number of stuns and that’s especially true considering I’m one of the most dodge-heavy specs in the game.

It’s not a video intended to convince you of the point I’m attempting to make. I believe that it’s an opinion shared by a large majority of the top level PvP community and it’s more tailored as a bit of criticism towards the game itself as an inside joke.

It’s a common frustration being FORCED to outplay someone based on their specific class/build just because their own class is at such a disadvantage. While this has happened since the game was released it has rarely been to such an extent as it has been lately and it has also recently existed with relation to easy to play classes like necromancer, LB/hammer warrior and spirit ranger

This video just goes to show how strong builds have gotten versus player skill. I understand that I’m running a no stunbreak build against a stun warrior with mace/mace hammer. That should be death and it pretty much is. But in previous incarnations of the game a semblance of skill existed amongst all classes where dynamics like this rarely existed and didn’t exist to such an extent based on crappy balance (RIP stun breaks for engis, RIP)

Every build running without stunbreaker dies that easily to a stun warrior, especially one running with mace.

Engineers have all the tools to counter warriors but of course you won’t prove anything posting a video of you dying to a stun warrior without having a stunbreaker on your bar.

That said, I don’t think that Warriors are balanced right now, but I also don’t think that Engineer is an “hard” class with a skillcap that high that gives you the right to win every fight as you are looking to claim.

Also, in past times balance wasn’t any better than it is now; there are several examples to bring back.

I know that balance isn’t any worse than what it was in the past. But what previous metas DID have was a semblance of skill vs reward. If I make a mistake on an engi in the current meta then I die, plain and kittening simple. God forbid that the warrior in the first vid made a half dozen mistakes that I capitalized on (zerkers stance too early, I big ol bomb’d cuz i saw he frenzied to break crate stun etc), if I make ONE mistake and get hit by ONE ability I am kittening toast.

Again, it’s an extreme example of what a LOT of good players have complained about recently. Easy to play classes have been at the top for a few months and it’s strangling the game because of simple frustration experienced by top teams.

And why should I sacrifice a very large number of VERY good traits just to be able to handle one player on a five man roster and make myself kitten in situations that don’t involve a stun warrior? If I run a stun break then I don’t have condi clear or utility enough to justify my spot. If I don’t run a stun break I’ll die to warriors. Other classes get both, engi gets to choose his death or outplay his opponent like a beast.

Ostricheggs.3742:

sorrow.2364:

Ostricheggs.3742:

I don’t find engi to be nearly as strong as what other classes can bring without running a no stunbreak build. I have confidence in myself enough so that I can dodge a large number of stuns and that’s especially true considering I’m one of the most dodge-heavy specs in the game.

It’s not a video intended to convince you of the point I’m attempting to make. I believe that it’s an opinion shared by a large majority of the top level PvP community and it’s more tailored as a bit of criticism towards the game itself as an inside joke.

It’s a common frustration being FORCED to outplay someone based on their specific class/build just because their own class is at such a disadvantage. While this has happened since the game was released it has rarely been to such an extent as it has been lately and it has also recently existed with relation to easy to play classes like necromancer, LB/hammer warrior and spirit ranger

This video just goes to show how strong builds have gotten versus player skill. I understand that I’m running a no stunbreak build against a stun warrior with mace/mace hammer. That should be death and it pretty much is. But in previous incarnations of the game a semblance of skill existed amongst all classes where dynamics like this rarely existed and didn’t exist to such an extent based on crappy balance (RIP stun breaks for engis, RIP)

Every build running without stunbreaker dies that easily to a stun warrior, especially one running with mace.

Engineers have all the tools to counter warriors but of course you won’t prove anything posting a video of you dying to a stun warrior without having a stunbreaker on your bar.

That said, I don’t think that Warriors are balanced right now, but I also don’t think that Engineer is an “hard” class with a skillcap that high that gives you the right to win every fight as you are looking to claim.

Also, in past times balance wasn’t any better than it is now; there are several examples to bring back.

I know that balance isn’t any worse than what it was in the past. But what previous metas DID have was a semblance of skill vs reward. If I make a mistake on an engi in the current meta then I die, plain and kittening simple. God forbid that the warrior in the first vid made a half dozen mistakes that I capitalized on (zerkers stance too early, I big ol bomb’d cuz i saw he frenzied to break crate stun etc), if I make ONE mistake and get hit by ONE ability I am kittening toast.

Again, it’s an extreme example of what a LOT of good players have complained about recently. Easy to play classes have been at the top for a few months and it’s strangling the game because of simple frustration experienced by top teams.

And why should I sacrifice a very large number of VERY good traits just to be able to handle one player on a five man roster and make myself kitten in situations that don’t involve a stun warrior? If I run a stun break then I don’t have condi clear or utility enough to justify my spot. If I don’t run a stun break I’ll die to warriors. Other classes get both, engi gets to choose his death or outplay his opponent like a beast.

+1 to this

What are your thoughts on the possibility for engineers to have the rng on AoE stability removed in the next patch?

HGH is back next week

The engineer in the video defeats every single person on the enemy team except for the warrior which has a build that counters that engineer’s particular build. Is it to be expected for one player to be able to defeat every opponent in a match with no possible self-weaknesses?

And even so, the engineer, despite getting caught in a 1v1 with the warrior that supposedly counters the engineer, still manages to pull 60% of the enemy team into that capture point and allow for his own team to control the rest of the map.

In the second video, the engineer needlessly pursues the warrior off the cap point into 130 range EVEN THOUGH he is aware that the warrior has a build that counters the engineer’s particular build. It almost feels staged, just to get that moment on camera to show to the forum and say, “SEE, imba!”

All I see is poor decision making in the videos. I really see no issues of imbalance here.

That warrior ran an unusual, full melee mace/mace/hammer build that normally would not work in a competitive match, but it just so happens to be the one counter to the engineer’s obnoxiously resilient, borderline-immortal build, and therefore it worked that match. Without that warrior’s awkward melee build, that engineer would have run rampant and dominate the entire match with no counters.

Is this a case of Build Wars? Maybe. Imbalance? No.

zone.1073:

That warrior ran an unusual, full melee mace/mace/hammer build that normally would not work in a competitive match, but it just so happens to be the one counter to the engineer’s obnoxiously resilient, borderline-immortal build, and therefore it worked that match. Without that warrior’s awkward melee build, that engineer would have run rampant and dominate the entire match with no counters.

Is this a case of Build Wars? Maybe. Imbalance? No.

It is certainly not the only counter to Ostrich egg’s build. Any condi necro should be near impossible for that build to beat, and there are other counters as well.

I think the sigil of paralyzation fix will help a lot. 50% extra crit chance vs. stunned enemies seems a bit over the top as well, but shaving is good. I think balance is pretty good overall right now, but even I know that stunlock builds are lame in any game.

zone.1073:

That warrior ran an unusual, full melee mace/mace/hammer build that normally would not work in a competitive match, but it just so happens to be the one counter to the engineer’s obnoxiously resilient, borderline-immortal build, and therefore it worked that match. Without that warrior’s awkward melee build, that engineer would have run rampant and dominate the entire match with no counters.

Is this a case of Build Wars? Maybe. Imbalance? No.

I dare you to play my build and tell me it’s immortal.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxShF1LJy4DdGYBiUkfW2nHslcBhA-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC

Stream it for 10 hours total and I’ll give you 50g just for the laughs from watching you after calling it immortal. Not even joking. It’s your free 50g if you show me how to play my build.

I am perturbed that you have the gal to imply that I’d run rampant with a skilless and near immortal build if I wasn’t hard-countered by a stun warrior. This is so far from the truth that I just HAVE to watch you play it. I’ll honestly do anything to watch a few hours of you playing the build I was running in those videos.

Ossies Mad lol
/15

Ostricheggs.3742:

zone.1073:

That warrior ran an unusual, full melee mace/mace/hammer build that normally would not work in a competitive match, but it just so happens to be the one counter to the engineer’s obnoxiously resilient, borderline-immortal build, and therefore it worked that match. Without that warrior’s awkward melee build, that engineer would have run rampant and dominate the entire match with no counters.

Is this a case of Build Wars? Maybe. Imbalance? No.

I dare you to play my build and tell me it’s immortal.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxShF1LJy4DdGYBiUkfW2nHslcBhA-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC

Stream it for 10 hours total and I’ll give you 50g just for the laughs from watching you after calling it immortal. Not even joking. It’s your free 50g if you show me how to play my build.

Please, be my guest.

Sigh never thought I’d say this OE… But if you know the build someone on that team is running and how it can directly counter YOUR specific build why not change it before the match? I mean really all you would need to do is swap some traits around and you become that warriors worst nightmare….

Protection injection+Stabilized armor= The ability to eat a frenzy 100b while stunned.
In all seriousness you could have taken 5 points out of tools and five out of fire arms and got stabilized armor without losing toooo much.

Not saying your build sucks but its hard for others to believe your OP calls when you aren’t using tools available to you. It seems like those two traits are specifically why engis don’t have many stunbreakers because for a 10 point sacrifice (in your case) you could negate almost all damage done to you by that warrior.

I guess I won’t get why people don’t reset their traits at the end of matches then rebuild in that first minute and a half before a match starts. ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNOW YOU ARE FACING THE SAME FREAKING TEAM AND YOU KNOW THEIR BUILDS!

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

zone.1073:

That warrior ran an unusual, full melee mace/mace/hammer build that normally would not work in a competitive match, but it just so happens to be the one counter to the engineer’s obnoxiously resilient, borderline-immortal build, and therefore it worked that match. Without that warrior’s awkward melee build, that engineer would have run rampant and dominate the entire match with no counters.

Is this a case of Build Wars? Maybe. Imbalance? No.

I dare you to play my build and tell me it’s immortal.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxShF1LJy4DdGYBiUkfW2nHslcBhA-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC

Stream it for 10 hours total and I’ll give you 50g just for the laughs from watching you after calling it immortal. Not even joking. It’s your free 50g if you show me how to play my build.

Please, be my guest.

Sigh never thought I’d say this OE… But if you know the build someone on that team is running and how it can directly counter YOUR specific build why not change it before the match? I mean really all you would need to do is swap some traits around and you become that warriors worst nightmare….

Protection injection+Stabilized armor= The ability to eat a frenzy 100b while stunned.
In all seriousness you could have taken 5 points out of tools and five out of fire arms and got stabilized armor without losing toooo much.

Not saying your build sucks but its hard for others to believe your OP calls when you aren’t using tools available to you. It seems like those two traits are specifically why engis don’t have many stunbreakers because for a 10 point sacrifice (in your case) you could negate almost all damage done to you by that warrior.

I guess I won’t get why people don’t reset their traits at the end of matches then rebuild in that first minute and a half before a match starts. ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNOW YOU ARE FACING THE SAME FREAKING TEAM AND YOU KNOW THEIR BUILDS!

See my above post:

“And why should I sacrifice a very large number of VERY good traits just to be able to handle one player on a five man roster and make myself kitten in situations that don’t involve a stun warrior? If I run a stun break then I don’t have condi clear or utility enough to justify my spot. If I don’t run a stun break I’ll die to warriors. Other classes get both, engi gets to choose his death or outplay his opponent like a beast.”

If I lose out on inertial converter I lose elixir R on reset which basically means I shouldn’t run it. Well, if I don’t run inertial converter I’ll die to the two condi class that they have on their team instead of the one stun warrior. If I run protection injection I’m putting myself at a severe disadvantage from not running backpack.

Any person who suggest running stabilized armor clearly does not know how engi builds or TPvP works.

You’re also missing the point, AGAIN. The entire point of this is that YOU HAVE TO OUTPLAY THIS CLASS BY DEFAULT NO MATTER WHAT kittenING CLASS YOU PLAY!!!

Really because I ran engi for months when mesmer became a joke ( you want to talk about a class that has to sacrifice almost everything to build for tpvp).
Stabilized armor+protection injection was staple for my build and always will be because engis can also build automated response which would deal with those condi classes pretty nicely as well. Sounds like you just refuse to change your build in order to win.

I’m not arguing that warriors don’t need a tone down they do greatly. I am arguing that you didn’t use the tools available to you to deal with said situation. And that is not ANET’s fault nor is it a skill v reward situation.

jportell.2197:

Really because I ran engi for months when mesmer became a joke ( you want to talk about a class that has to sacrifice almost everything to build for tpvp).
Stabilized armor+protection injection was staple for my build and always will be because engis can also build automated response which would deal with those condi classes pretty nicely as well. Sounds like you just refuse to change your build in order to win.

I’m not arguing that warriors don’t need a tone down they do greatly. I am arguing that you didn’t use the tools available to you to deal with said situation. And that is not ANET’s fault nor is it a skill v reward situation.

Alright, lemme just go ahead and go 30 30 30 30 30 while I’m at it.

You don’t understand the reality of engis and where their efficacy stems from. To argue with me about engi builds, especially bomb nade builds, is simply asinine.

To leave myself at a severe disadvantage against every other player on their team to get a major advantage against ONE spec is simply ridiculous and is clearly asking too much. Furthermore you’re blowing off inertial converter in an elixir R spec as if it’s a “free” trait point which in and of itself destroys your credibility in arguing over it.

To put it in perspective, I’m fighting four necros and a warrior. So I get 3 stunbreaks, elixir X and a shamans amulet with protection injection and stabilized armor JUST to deal with the warrior. What do I do against the necros?

FINALLY, you tell me I didn’t have the tools in that given situation. As cool as it would be to be able to respec to hard counter your opponents every fight, we play a game where that does not happen. The fact that I have to remind you of this is insane

Dont run into a 5v1?

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Really because I ran engi for months when mesmer became a joke ( you want to talk about a class that has to sacrifice almost everything to build for tpvp).
Stabilized armor+protection injection was staple for my build and always will be because engis can also build automated response which would deal with those condi classes pretty nicely as well. Sounds like you just refuse to change your build in order to win.

I’m not arguing that warriors don’t need a tone down they do greatly. I am arguing that you didn’t use the tools available to you to deal with said situation. And that is not ANET’s fault nor is it a skill v reward situation.

Alright, lemme just go ahead and go 30 30 30 30 30 while I’m at it.

You don’t understand the reality of engis and where their efficacy stems from. To argue with me about engi builds, especially bomb nade builds, is simply asinine.

To leave myself at a severe disadvantage against every other player on their team to get a major advantage against ONE spec is simply ridiculous and is clearly asking too much. Furthermore you’re blowing off inertial converter in an elixir R spec as if it’s a “free” trait point which in and of itself destroys your credibility in arguing over it.

To put it in perspective, I’m fighting four necros and a warrior. So I get 3 stunbreaks, elixir X and a shamans amulet with protection injection and stabilized armor JUST to deal with the warrior. What do I do against the necros?

You could forgo it sacrifice the shaman’s amulet lose all points in tools and firearms put 10 into inventions BAM stabilized armor. Since you no longer have speedy kits you can forgo invigorating speed for protection injection, and the last 10 points can go into automated response which according to you only “bad engis” use, but I know several that use it while still dishing out some very nice damage because they still took a rabid amulet. Or if you insist on keeping your sub-optimal build (Sub-optimal in a defensive manner) as far as trait points go you could get runes of melandru sacrificing the runes of the adventurer.

This is why engi is for the most part balanced they have to give up some things to get others but they are great at them.

Seriously dude. You faced the same team twice, and didn’t think to build yourself to counter it. That is your fault and is in no way a requirement for a QQ.

You now have a way to fight both warriors and necros. While still being useful to

You people don’t get it. The Warrior on the video can have 3-6 defensive cool downs while most Engis builds LEGITIMATELY can not afford to have stun breaks or defensive cool downs to have access to high reward techs and maneuvers.

You people are literally beyond dumb if you don’t understand what Ostrich is trying to say.

Seriously it makes me sick. Stun-lock Warrior took skill around 3-6 months ago because YOU DID NOT HAVE A MILLION TRIES. The only reason why its working is because ANET allows brain dead defense mechanics stacking AND MAKES IT EASY on top of that.

Amir.1570:

You people don’t get it. The Warrior on the video can have 3-6 defensive cool downs while most Engis builds LEGITIMATELY can not afford to have stun breaks or defensive cool downs to have access to high reward techs and maneuvers.

You people are literally beyond dumb if you don’t understand what Ostrich is trying to say.

He can use all the exact same skills if only he were to trait differently which he seemed to just refuse to do.

He can build defensively by going 10 into inventions and 30 into alchemy while keeping the 30 in explosives and the rabid amulet while still doing GREAT damage… He just refused to do so. Why people refuse to adjust to teams they face is what boggles me.

jportell.2197:

Really because I ran engi for months when mesmer became a joke ( you want to talk about a class that has to sacrifice almost everything to build for tpvp).
Stabilized armor+protection injection was staple for my build and always will be because engis can also build automated response which would deal with those condi classes pretty nicely as well. Sounds like you just refuse to change your build in order to win.

I’m not arguing that warriors don’t need a tone down they do greatly. I am arguing that you didn’t use the tools available to you to deal with said situation. And that is not ANET’s fault nor is it a skill v reward situation.

automated response doesnt deal with condi classes, it’s pretty easy to outplay, and it’s pretty bad unless you’re running a bunker engi but then you’re useless you might as well be a guardian instead

Ostricheggs.3742:

I know that balance isn’t any worse than what it was in the past. But what previous metas DID have was a semblance of skill vs reward. If I make a mistake on an engi in the current meta then I die, plain and kittening simple. God forbid that the warrior in the first vid made a half dozen mistakes that I capitalized on (zerkers stance too early, I big ol bomb’d cuz i saw he frenzied to break crate stun etc), if I make ONE mistake and get hit by ONE ability I am kittening toast.

Again, it’s an extreme example of what a LOT of good players have complained about recently. Easy to play classes have been at the top for a few months and it’s strangling the game because of simple frustration experienced by top teams.

And why should I sacrifice a very large number of VERY good traits just to be able to handle one player on a five man roster and make myself kitten in situations that don’t involve a stun warrior? If I run a stun break then I don’t have condi clear or utility enough to justify my spot. If I don’t run a stun break I’ll die to warriors. Other classes get both, engi gets to choose his death or outplay his opponent like a beast.

In my opinion, there wasn’t any semblance of skill vs reward. Warriors and Necromancers were balanced and hard to play professions before the June patch but, though, they were never played because everyone preferred Mesmer (in which the only skill involved was just spamming a rotation), Elementalist (same as mesmer, with the only difference that they had also to switch between attunement) and Engineers (HGH granades spam).

They did wrong by buffing Warriors and Necros bringing them on par with the stupid easy to play professions/builds and now every profession is dumbed down to an extreme point.

Players are complaining about warriors rightfully, as I’ve previously said. It is, among the stupid easy to play professions, the most effective right now but it isn’t the only issue.

Anyway, running with no stun prevention at all doesn’t leave you exposed only to stun warriors, but to any form of hard CC too.
Slick Shoes is a skill I see used on many engis and it gives a stunbreaker on kitten cooldown. I know that it is not enough to save your kitten from every warrior stun, but it is enough to save your kitten when you are stunned and nearly dying.

Why does this thread remind me so much of the time when condition classes (in particular pure condi specced necros) were calling out engis regarding Automated response, and what they got were the typical replies somewhere along the lines of ‘suck less’, ’don’t build for conds only’ and ‘it is a legitimate counter to cond spammers’.

Harhar. What goes around comes around, eh.
Sure, both necro and warr have (unfortunately) been dumbed down to cheese mode, but at least engis have the tools on their hands to fight against it (especially against CC)…or so I have gathered from some replies in this thread.
You can’t have it all at once, but you sure as hell have some (tools).

The devs implemented mechanics that don’t reward skill. This game favors stealth and numbers over skills heavily. Worst of any mmo.

The smart pvpers realized that 3 months into the game and ditched it.

Ostricheggs.3742:

part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063173
part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

Part 1 looks a lot less intense than what it felt like playing. Getting hit by a single stun = death as an engi running a half-decent build.

Being forced to outplay people to such an extent is getting very annoying to a lot of players who don’t play easier classes. That’s what this video is about more so than any individual mistake on my part or the warrior’s.

You remind me of the players in the old FA and JQ or Random Arenas in Guild Wars 1.

“This is ridiculous! I was completely speced to handle the most common build of the meta, then this [insert class here] comes out of no where with a different build and destroys me! OP!!!”.

It is called a counter and it is good the game has them. Engineer is not in a bad spot. The Warrior by himself would not have killed you. Take the death and move on.

Also, it is unwise to not have a stun breaker some where on any build… but if you insist on playing a cheese running-grenade build then it is your fault for letting him catch up to you when he has 0 mobility.

I totally understand the OP.

As I’m Engi I know the situation quite well – I think you can summarize it pretty well:

It feels unfair because your enemy can make mistakes without being punished, whereas you have to play perfect to outlast him and die for doing the tiniest mistake.

I had heaps of fights against Stunlock Warriors aswell – but I run a stunbreaker.

My stunbreaker is on 40sec cooldown – meaning I can “eat” one stun – the remaining 3-4 stuns (or even more) in the 40sec I need to dodge or blind. If I manage to do – I really have great play and the Warrior will go low. When going low the Warrior can still escape in 90% of the time because his huge mobility.
Meaning: I need to play perfect to have him run away and come back 10 seconds later.
If I make one mistake – I’m dead!

The other way round it’s not the same though – the Warrior is not being punished for mistakes. He has pretty much 30-40 seconds to kill me (no matter what happens – he can eat all my damage) if he doesn’t excel – he runs away.

That’s making me mad – I see the Warrior eating all my damage – he’s even hundredbladind with 5 stacks confusion – and is not being punished for it.

It applies for both Warris out there… M/S-GS and LB/H

Still I was happy to have them around because they pretty much destroyed the Necro Meta.