Guild Wars 2

Hey fellow warriors,

As you saw from the next balance changes in Dec 10, hammers are getting nerfed and to be honest I am very happy about this, the question is, is it getting nerfed enough?

As a player from launch I have enjoyed the PvP in this game very much. I started with a thief because I wanted skill-required builds for PvP but It never worked out since the thief’s fighting style was never enough for me, since having stealth felt too safe for PvP.

So then I picked up warrior when they were still in the free kill tier because the old build (axe/shield – GS) required lots of skill and timing to be effective, it was all about using GS for high mobility and trying to catch the distracted enemy to burst them down, The build had alot of disengagement, telegraphed skills which were very dodge-able this lead to the warrior having to force the enemy in wasting their endurance before proceding with the burst while trying to avoid getting hit by key abilitys of the opponent’s class. Needless to say, you had to have ~400% the skill of your opponent in order to win a fight. But BOY WASN’T IT FUN!

All we asked was for a tiny bit more condi removal…. and what we got was the easiest build to be effective with in this game. Seeing how Skill-less and OP the LB/HAMMER build was; just ruined everything special warrior had before the change.

I’m sure we all remember the day were everything changed from being skilled/active play to being brainless/passive play (with lots and lots of AOE spamming).

Enough about how I feel though, I’m making this thread in attempt to raise awareness of how many warrior players want the old/skillful warrior play-style back. And what should be done of the OP warrior build.

I’m not sure why you feel that Warrior’s damage cycles are suddenly just mindless AoE spam. Longbow and Hammer have pretty much remained constant in AoE capability since launch. Still super telegraphed.

Play without Berserker stance and Balanced Stance if you want to instantly have a profession that relies on skill-based timing to be effective. Or take some gear off. Warrior’s fundemental mechanics have never been ‘hard’ – I think you just have a thing for being the underdog. Haha.

Chaith.8256:

I’m not sure why you feel that Warrior’s damage cycles are suddenly just mindless AoE spam. Longbow and Hammer have pretty much remained constant in AoE capability since launch. Still super telegraphed.

Play without Berserker stance and Balanced Stance if you want to instantly have a profession that relies on skill-based timing to be effective. Or take some gear off. Warrior’s fundemental mechanics have never been ‘hard’ – I think you just have a thing for being the underdog. Haha.

The thing is, the viable warriors had little to no passive defence back then, Beserker stance is absolutely disgusting, and the ~20-30 points in defence makes the class’s survival more passive then it should be. The current Viable build makes survival easy, the only skill required is making sure your abilities hit. Which is not all that hard. The old warrior required skill to be efficient in selecting moments to disengage.

I think the hammer nerf was rather harsh, when I play against other warriors I almost never get hit by them because they are very obvious animations. They do need to nerf zerkerstance to like 5-6 seconds from 8 and maybe very slightly reduce the healing on the signet.

You can still play like it was in the beginning. No one is making you play the meta builds so go for it and have fun.

Na that’s a lie , you’re forced to use meta builds unless you wanna lose . The guy is right , people had respect for warriors back then , not anymore with passive signet and Aoe ground target spam . Need to rethink the class mechanic a lil bit .

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

a t s e.9614:

Na that’s a lie , you’re forced to use meta builds unless you wanna lose . The guy is right , people had respect for warriors back then , not anymore with passive signet and Aoe ground target spam . Need to rethink the class mechanic a lil bit .

Still no one is making him play the meta builds. He can even play harder than it was in the begining because the raw damage in traits (moved to GM) and in weapons have been nerfed.

The problem is making all other people play the way someone thinks its the “hardest” way to do. If he wants to play that way he can, nobody is stoping him. But he should not decide what its best for others to play when he have a option to play how he wants.

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

1 ) Just out of curiosity do you play warrior ?
if yes : When did you decide to play warrior class ?
if no : What class do you play ?

2 ) How long you been playing pvp?

3 ) Do you seriously think warrior is balanced compared to other characters ?

If you answer these questions , we can see how reliable your opinion is.

awaiting your answers….

Butnaked.9287:

…

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

Very well stated.

I’m just really confused why they’re going after hammer damage and not healing signet.

Brigg.6189:

I’m just really confused why they’re going after hammer damage and not healing signet.

What´s your problem with healing signet? You know, wars have no port, no stealth, no blink blink …

In short, I think it’s slightly overtuned. Not to beat a dead horse but here’s a couple thoughts:
- I think it’s overshadowing surge and mending
- The passive is so much stronger than the active, you almost never want to activate it. I have no problem with signets, but I want reasons to activate them.
- I can see that it’s frustrating for new and low dps players (hard to out-dps).

And for the hambow build, I think they’re taking a huge chunk out of being able to play hammer as a dps weapon. I know the idea that it was too much sustain+control+dps, but when you can be fairly tanky while running a zerker amulet, seems like the sustain is the problem. Also, I think hammer played better when it felt like you needed to be really careful about landing your hits. With high sustain, it feels like you can whif a couple stuns and it’s no big deal, I think that contributes to the faceroll impression (false) that people have gotten about warrior.

I was really looking for a lowered passive HS component, but a buff to the active.

a t s e.9614:

Na that’s a lie , you’re forced to use meta builds unless you wanna lose . The guy is right , people had respect for warriors back then , not anymore with passive signet and Aoe ground target spam . Need to rethink the class mechanic a lil bit .

I didn’t have respect for zerker warriors who thought zerker was the only way to play back then.

I just killed them. And laughed while I was facetanking their hundred blades with my engi.

IMHO GS/Axe was just a subpar build. And a bit superficial. It looked to me more like a rogue with a big sword.

I don’t know… I felt much more rewarded when I ended up with a working build using sodlier’s amulet, sword/mace and longbow.

GS/LB was much better, though.

hammer is not the problem it’s the longbow. why not just call warriors rangers if they are more effective using longbows. just lame. a warrior’s lb attack is the biggest threat.

redslion.9675:

a t s e.9614:

Na that’s a lie , you’re forced to use meta builds unless you wanna lose . The guy is right , people had respect for warriors back then , not anymore with passive signet and Aoe ground target spam . Need to rethink the class mechanic a lil bit .

I didn’t have respect for zerker warriors who thought zerker was the only way to play back then.

I just killed them. And laughed while I was facetanking their hundred blades with my engi.

IMHO GS/Axe was just a subpar build. And a bit superficial. It looked to me more like a rogue with a big sword.

I don’t know… I felt much more rewarded when I ended up with a working build using sodlier’s amulet, sword/mace and longbow.

GS/LB was much better, though.

GS/Axe is still harder to use than just spamming earthshaker. People played zerk because the class had 0 sustain , it’s kill or be killed. Now it’s a completed joke, Healing signet lol….. No other classes have such a strong passive Healing. Warrior passed from Hard mode to ez mode braindead spam.

a t s e.9614:

redslion.9675:

a t s e.9614:

Na that’s a lie , you’re forced to use meta builds unless you wanna lose . The guy is right , people had respect for warriors back then , not anymore with passive signet and Aoe ground target spam . Need to rethink the class mechanic a lil bit .

I didn’t have respect for zerker warriors who thought zerker was the only way to play back then.

I just killed them. And laughed while I was facetanking their hundred blades with my engi.

IMHO GS/Axe was just a subpar build. And a bit superficial. It looked to me more like a rogue with a big sword.

I don’t know… I felt much more rewarded when I ended up with a working build using sodlier’s amulet, sword/mace and longbow.

GS/LB was much better, though.

GS/Axe is still harder to use than just spamming earthshaker. People played zerk because the class had 0 sustain , it’s kill or be killed. Now it’s a completed joke, Healing signet lol….. No other classes have such a strong passive Healing. Warrior passed from Hard mode to ez mode braindead spam.

Just don’t use hammer. No matter how tanky you build, IMHO GS/LB is harder than hammer.

However, I always felt like that was exactly what a class with no sustain shouldn’t have done: I remember one defensive skill was enough to deal damage to the warrior in order to kill him with my engi. And because of protection off disable no warrior could kill me using burst.

a t s e.9614:

Warrior passed from Hard mode to ez mode braindead spam.

I know this is really popular to spam the forums with these days, but it’s a really strange thing to say. Hammer is not an easy weapon, it’s telegraphed, it’s slow, weak to blind/aegis, and it’s only really effective when you combo your cc well. I really don’t consider it a faceroll weapon at all.

I blame this perception on healing signet. If you have high sustain, you can afford to make mistakes, and it does make it seem easy to play.

It’s not that warrior is a braindead class, it’s just really strong.

Well for any build using hammer the biggest two changes that transitioned warriors to their current state is the change to brawn for cd reduction and the increased access to adrenaline through cleansing ire, burst mastery and berserker’s stance. Then you have the added sustain for healing signet.

Before the patch if hammer was one of your weapon sets you had a very hard time using both burst skills on cd. Now we are honestly able to do so fairly reliably on a 7.25s cd as opposed to 10s unreliably. With this adrenaline influx burst skills become ‘cheap’ and no longer require precise timing to make sure they land. Basically negating what was once the draw back to hammer.

Now post patch we are losing burst mastery and some cd reduction in order to get the 50% crit chance. This will help the spamming issue a bit but hardly make the hammer play how it used to. Personally brawn giving cd reduction needs to be axe’d in favor of something else and adrenaline gain sources needs to be reworked across the board. That, along with healing signet and longbow use has dumbed down the class.

Right now I find warriors in the higher tiers of skill slightly too strong while at lower tiers being extremely over the top. So the objective should be to have a slight net nerf while adjusting the skill floor.

^That’s fair, nicely written. Although I am worried that reducing the damage is just going to make subpar and boring to play. I can understand about the unsuspecting foe though, that seems reasonable.

@Fourth

How do you increase access to adrenaline through cleansing ire?

Before the patch, hammer can already perm lock down someone to death, even easier with frenzy, we had 7 second burst too when they combined those two traits.
Why hammer was never that good? because warrior had no sustain, they need mobility to engage and disengage fast, or they melt, so hammer was not the better choice.

(just by the way, there were unsuspected foe, hammer/gs with switch weapon 100% crit sigil build too when warriors were free kill tier. similar to mace/gs now, but instead of single target, you aoe stun(since mace was 2 sec same as hammer) and switch to gs for 100% crit hundred blade.)

@OP.

warrior will never have the old builds, damage have been nerfed hard right before the stunlock.

Dude just roll a glass ele.. if you want to make it 30/0/0/10/30 warrior level then run d/f for lols. Glass ranger is fun too, and probably stronger than glass warrior ever was.

But yeah it’s not just hammer which is OP, healing sig makes every weapon set easy as hell for warrior.

In other news, went out and bought a 4g dongle today so I’m totally back tomorrow… doubt I’ll be face rolling on warrior outside serious premades though for reasons mentioned above.

To the OP: reduce baseline on healing sig. However, the fact is if you want to min max risk/reward now warrior just isn’t the class for you; for crazy rockstar cleave roll an ele.

And to Chaith: All I’d say is there’s a difference between a rotation heavy class making gameplay demanding and knowing exactly when to use a skill.

It took me to r50 to know exactly when to use 100db, but after the patches in the summer it didn’t matter much. To be fair warrior was in a horrible state when terror necro was running rampant, but IMO ya’ll should of just taken my build advice rather than forcing Anet to make CC sustain OP!

Just have 1 thing to say to this. Thanks for the burst mastery nerf arenanet. My warrior is officially useless in pvp i will play exclusively necromancer until its working again.

tom.7468:

Just have 1 thing to say to this. Thanks for the burst mastery nerf arenanet. My warrior is officially useless in pvp i will play exclusively necromancer until its working again.

The only nerf was in damage bonus. 3%.

They just fixed a wrong tooltip. All it has ever done was reducing burst skill cost by 33%.

Lighter.5631:

@Fourth

How do you increase access to adrenaline through cleansing ire?

Before the patch, hammer can already perm lock down someone to death, even easier with frenzy, we had 7 second burst too when they combined those two traits.
Why hammer was never that good? because warrior had no sustain, they need mobility to engage and disengage fast, or they melt, so hammer was not the better choice.

(just by the way, there were unsuspected foe, hammer/gs with switch weapon 100% crit sigil build too when warriors were free kill tier. similar to mace/gs now, but instead of single target, you aoe stun(since mace was 2 sec same as hammer) and switch to gs for 100% crit hundred blade.)

Cleansing ire used to not provide any condition removal, the adrenaline gain was still there but it was a very underused trait. After the patch everyone took it which grants 3% adrenaline when hit, the same amount as hitting a target. Similarly berserker’s stance became meta along with the new burst mastery trait. That is a lot of adrenaline gain that started to show up, independent of weapon set choice.

I agree the added sustain also had a large role in warriors current strength, but this was in an area warriors were generally seen to be lacking in which went against the role they were designed for. I do think the sustain is a bit too strong and more so too passive but the biggest issue that creates bad gameplay while increasing the warriors strength is having burst skills become spammy even on slow weapon sets.

At least they will have to choose between Unsuspecting/Cleansing Ire/Hammer Mastery/Burst Mastery after dec10

Void.4239:

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

1 ) Just out of curiosity do you play warrior ?
if yes : When did you decide to play warrior class ?
if no : What class do you play ?

2 ) How long you been playing pvp?

3 ) Do you seriously think warrior is balanced compared to other characters ?

If you answer these questions , we can see how reliable your opinion is.

awaiting your answers….

I’ve played nothing but warrior since launch with all of my time invested into pvp(both wvw and spvp). also would like to note that hammer has always been my main weapon.

im gonna come back and answer #3 for you later on, I don’t have enough to time to give you enough of an explanation.

edit

ok, now for # 3. Is warrior balanced compared to other classes. Good way to answer is with another question. Do setups, counters and tactics exist to fight the warrior? Yes. Tactics are the issue here. You would be in shock if you saw how many times I have killed other players that either spam dodges randomly or never dodge, totally ignore any boons or stances(ie trying to condi bomb zerker stance) or my all time favorite fight me point blank with ranged weapons. I hate to say it but that’s the problem.

Yes necro is countered by the meta build but all that means is that necro is fighting from a disadvantage, not a free kill for warrior. Any fighting game player out there is familiar with the idea of fighting bad matchups and the only way to really combat this is with information.

Warrior is a very straight forward class and that also makes it VERY predictable. This is something that everyone should have been exploiting. You see a hamm warr coming and you noe exactly what im doing and you should be playing it accordingly. Details are what make the difference. Like hammer animations, the fact that zerker stance can be hit with CC(this is very effective) or even better just look at the some of the popular builds and see what they got. I try my best to approach anything I play the same way. If something is killing me I stop and think what im doing maybe look it up and 9/10 I see instant improvement.

And then we have an even simpler strategy. Your build doesn’t do well for whatever reason or you just don’t like fighting warr? hit ctrl t and let ur teammates focus fire him out of the game.

Same old story when eles were crazy op months and months ago and every bad around rerolled ele…after nerf good ones kept playing and everyone else just left for another fotm (I’m not talking about this meta, here ele is almost unviable unless you have a team made for it)…after war nerf good wars are still going to play war and nabs just riding fotm (Like 80%+ wars atm) are going to reroll something else….welcome to fotm wars 2…where meta plays you

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

How can you be heard, when you get a “l2p” as reply (it is just as common as “OP”)?
Seriously … do you recall, back when thieves could instagib someone from 100% due to Mug+CnD+BS? I didn’t really die to that 1vs1 with all my cd’s up .. but as soon, as that changed a tiny bit I was insta-gibbed (on almost every class). Yet many thieves defended that for ages … really (just an example .. could have taken ele’s as well).
If people just acknowledged what was brainless, unfun, etc., it would be a LOT easier to communicate. One would think, that it would be with the easy access to all classes, but it isn’t so: People still feel some class is “their class”, and kitten feels threatened if it is nerfed; hence the bias, hence the rage.
Now … in the next patch I see boonwar … I hope some more classes will be able to boonstrip :-S

Poxxia.1547:

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

How can you be heard, when you get a “l2p” as reply (it is just as common as “OP”)?
Seriously … do you recall, back when thieves could instagib someone from 100% due to Mug+CnD+BS? I didn’t really die to that 1vs1 with all my cd’s up .. but as soon, as that changed a tiny bit I was insta-gibbed (on almost every class). Yet many thieves defended that for ages … really (just an example .. could have taken ele’s as well).
If people just acknowledged what was brainless, unfun, etc., it would be a LOT easier to communicate. One would think, that it would be with the easy access to all classes, but it isn’t so: People still feel some class is “their class”, and kitten feels threatened if it is nerfed; hence the bias, hence the rage.
Now … in the next patch I see boonwar … I hope some more classes will be able to boonstrip :-S

Like forsaker already said bunker meta is coming…already getting some 3-4 bunkers teams in tpvp…no wonder after this patch..

Poxxia.1547:

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

How can you be heard, when you get a “l2p” as reply (it is just as common as “OP”)?
Seriously … do you recall, back when thieves could instagib someone from 100% due to Mug+CnD+BS? I didn’t really die to that 1vs1 with all my cd’s up .. but as soon, as that changed a tiny bit I was insta-gibbed (on almost every class). Yet many thieves defended that for ages … really (just an example .. could have taken ele’s as well).
If people just acknowledged what was brainless, unfun, etc., it would be a LOT easier to communicate. One would think, that it would be with the easy access to all classes, but it isn’t so: People still feel some class is “their class”, and kitten feels threatened if it is nerfed; hence the bias, hence the rage.
Now … in the next patch I see boonwar … I hope some more classes will be able to boonstrip :-S

current warrior isn’t instagibing like old thief and neither is it super tanky like old ele was. Warrior is no where near those two builds.

Butnaked.9287:

current warrior isn’t instagibing like old thief and neither is it super tanky like old ele was. Warrior is no where near those two builds.

No … warrior takes some from each world. I can elaborate on that, but that is like … old news.

But my post ins’t about that. My post is about acknowledging that there is a receiving end, and saying you have seen “OP” too many times in conjunction with warriors make me think I have seen the phrase “l2p” too many times when people are biased and feel threatened. It is really that simple.

Simple question: How can you avoid bias if all you play is warrior (or it is your main class)?