Guild Wars 2

We all know you can’t use your skills while you’re downed, downed bar replaces them and you can only manage to survive with those….unless you’re a ranger..

..why do rangers can still use their F1-4 skills while downed and any other class can’t, considering they probably already have the strongest downed state in the game?

I’m not whining off course i’m just looking for a simple answer from a dev…since “managing” your ai pet just because you have it sounds illogical, both mesmers and necros have ai minions\phantasms but you can’t control\shatter them while downed (And it’s fine)…so this difference still makes no sense to me..

Anet dont like to talk about their mistakes.
/thread

Sad but true. Still trying to not let this question die before getting a reasonable answer.

the main reason I can think of is this..

a ranger is the only pet mechanic class in the game end of..

the reason i say this is simple.. a ranger HAS to take his pet into a fight.. necro minions are optional.. clones on the other hand kinda have to be use/taken but they are just clones of you.. you go down.. technically they go down..

ranger is a different story.. we have a bond with a separate life for that is still alive if we go down.. and seeing as we have that bond.. he doesn’t want to see me die..

not what you want to hear.. but it’s close to the truth behind the reasoning for this..

Every class should be able to use F1-F4 skills. I want to use
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

I think it’s cool they can still control their pet when downed, it gives an unique flavor to the ranger. I also think it’s not fair though.

Solution? Buff other classes downed states. Maybe a downed state with interchangeable skills, like the utilities?

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

Luthan.5236:

Every class should be able to use F1-F4 skills. I want to use
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

Would be OP imo :p And warrior’s and thief’s would be pretty useless ^^

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Luthan.5236:

Every class should be able to use F1-F4 skills. I want to use
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

yeah because we all want thieves stealing from downed state or necros going in to DS while in downed state sounds fun…

wait actually.. that does sound fun..

but Stop trying to steal my class mechanic.. you have your own.. leave ours alone..

shimzor.6057:

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Problem with necro is that you have death shround on F so it’s not related to minions, i’m not asking for shatter while downed btw…i’m just asking why rangers CAN use F skills if downed while no other class can…

firebreathz.7692:

Luthan.5236:

Every class should be able to use F1-F4 skills. I want to use
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

yeah because we all want thieves stealing from downed state or necros going in to DS while in downed state sounds fun…

wait actually.. that does sound fun..

but Stop trying to steal my class mechanic.. you have your own.. leave ours alone..

As i said you already have the strongest downed state hands down…you can’t kill a downed ranger with dps, fact. Not mentioning underwater cause it’s just a stupid bug (Never fixed of course) …if you add that you’re able to use F skills also…it’s just a little too much isn’t it? A downed ranger can literally down and kill you if you run glass cannon while downed, interrupt, dog interrupt, switch…another dog interrupt, broken lick wounds…and so on…meanwhile you’re down too, and then you have no chance in downed vs downed…if he’s not already up and running…just make ALL classes to use downed skills only and everything would be fine…and maybe a little more balanced too..

Archaon.6245:

shimzor.6057:

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Problem with necro is that you have death shround on F so it’s not related to minions, i’m not asking for shatter while downed btw…i’m just asking why rangers CAN use F skills if downed while no other class can…

to mitigate the fact that our pets literally have to stop every time they want to attack.. so landing an attack with a pet.. is alot harder than you all think..

also the way the ranger is designed.. the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

shimzor.6057:

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Problem with necro is that you have death shround on F so it’s not related to minions, i’m not asking for shatter while downed btw…i’m just asking why rangers CAN use F skills if downed while no other class can…

to mitigate the fact that our pets literally have to stop every time they want to attack.. so landing an attack with a pet.. is alot harder than you all think..

also the way the ranger is designed.. the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

So you’re basically saying that mesmer doesn’t rely upon his clones and phantasms for his dmg and mechanics?

Archaon.6245:

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

shimzor.6057:

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Problem with necro is that you have death shround on F so it’s not related to minions, i’m not asking for shatter while downed btw…i’m just asking why rangers CAN use F skills if downed while no other class can…

to mitigate the fact that our pets literally have to stop every time they want to attack.. so landing an attack with a pet.. is alot harder than you all think..

also the way the ranger is designed.. the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

So you’re basically saying that mesmer doesn’t rely upon his clones and phantasms for his dmg and mechanics?

“and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage difference is we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies”

no, I already tried to explain that

if a mesmer opens a fight with any skill that’s not clone/phantom based then no clones are summoned into the fight..

if a ranger tries the same.. the pet will automatically unstow and start fighting (even tho rangers have asked and asked for them not to auto unstow on combat)

so my point was pets are intrinsically linked to a ranger in this way that no other class is..

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

shimzor.6057:

Archaon.6245:

phantasms are a standalone npc with their own hp and stats and they’re not clones…so i should be able to use them with F skills too since mesmers rely upon clones/phantasms as much as rangers on pets imo, but Anet doesn’t think so…the only class with this broken mechanic is ranger, and there’s still no reasonable explanation to it…

What about minion necro?

Problem with necro is that you have death shround on F so it’s not related to minions, i’m not asking for shatter while downed btw…i’m just asking why rangers CAN use F skills if downed while no other class can…

to mitigate the fact that our pets literally have to stop every time they want to attack.. so landing an attack with a pet.. is alot harder than you all think..

also the way the ranger is designed.. the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

So you’re basically saying that mesmer doesn’t rely upon his clones and phantasms for his dmg and mechanics?

“and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage difference is we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies”

no, I already tried to explain that

if a mesmer opens a fight with any skill that’s not clone/phantom based then no clones are summoned into the fight..

if a ranger tries the same.. the pet will automatically unstow and start fighting (even tho rangers have asked and asked for them not to auto unstow on combat)

so my point was pets are intrinsically linked to a ranger in this way that no other class is..

So if pets automatically follow your target and attack it…why can you use his F2 while downed too? If they’re already " intrinsically linked" why do you need to manage them with F skills? And btw a downed ranger with a stupid pet randomly attacking things would be far better than a downed mesmer (Or anyone else) anyway since you still have your broken lick wounds to exploit….free res on demand? Here we go..

firebreathz.7692:

… the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

Sorry, but your logic is totally fail here.

Rather than pick this apart comparing it to all classes lets just make a comparison to Necromancer. Your pet damage scales with your stats, Necro’s does not (necro can trait for less terrible damage, but still nowhere near what pets can do). The base damage on your weapons is superior to Necro pretty much without exception (look at the numbers, and note that Necro has finishers on only 1 weapon set). Compared to the Flesh Golem Elite, Ranger pet is more survivable, does better damage (when built for damage I have seen pet crits over 10k), is controlable by the player (by comparison), doesn’t take up a Utility or Elite skill slot, can chase across the entire map where minions are all leashed, can be used for defense more effectively, generally has shorter CD’s on their actives and you have 2 of them to swap between.

In terms of design, Necro and Mesmer are both more reliant on AI that is inherently inferior to the Ranger pets. Mesmer because their primary mechanic is entirely dependent on having illusions up, and Necro because their weapons are all balanced on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from minions (which I hate and never use on my necro btw). So yes, Ranger is “slightly different at the core level”. It has an inherent advantage in that its down state is far superior to the other classes that are AI dependent. It is a glaring imbalance.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

firebreathz.7692:

… the pet does a large portion of our damage.. so removing f skills while downed for rangers hurts us alot more than some other classes..
and i know the couter argument will be x class relies on y to do a large portion of there damage.. difference is.. we cannot fight without a pet unless it dies.. everyother class can fight without that y being auto pulled into combat.. so that shows we are slightly different at the core level.. altho it may seem we are the same thing.. we are not..

Sorry, but your logic is totally fail here.

Rather than pick this apart comparing it to all classes lets just make a comparison to Necromancer. Your pet damage scales with your stats, Necro’s does not (necro can trait for less terrible damage, but still nowhere near what pets can do). The base damage on your weapons is superior to Necro pretty much without exception (look at the numbers, and note that Necro has finishers on only 1 weapon set). Compared to the Flesh Golem Elite, Ranger pet is more survivable, does better damage (when built for damage I have seen pet crits over 10k), is controlable by the player (by comparison), doesn’t take up a Utility or Elite skill slot, can chase across the entire map where minions are all leashed, can be used for defense more effectively, generally has shorter CD’s on their actives and you have 2 of them to swap between.

In terms of design, Necro and Mesmer are both more reliant on AI that is inherently inferior to the Ranger pets. Mesmer because their primary mechanic is entirely dependent on having illusions up, and Necro because their weapons are all balanced on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from minions (which I hate and never use on my necro btw). So yes, Ranger is “slightly different at the core level”. It has an inherent advantage in that its down state is far superior to the other classes that are AI dependent. It is a glaring imbalance.

“Your pet damage scales with your stats” – no it does not..

“The base damage on your weapons is superior to Necro pretty much without exception (look at the numbers” – your neglecting all the condition damage you have and not to mention consume conditions..

“Necro because their weapons are all balanced on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from minions” – and rangers are balanced in exactly the same way..on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from pets..

yes this is A perk of being a ranger.. are you saying you have no perks at all?

edit: omfg it’s so unfair a necro can use DS and as a ranger I cant do the same.. /QQ

I had a fight with a ranger in the Underwater PvP map, I downed him 4 times in a row without me being downed, his pet ability lick wounds out heals my damage as well as a glass cannon..
@ firebreathz: Every other class has their abilities replaced by down skilled, that means our DPS is also gone. Your pet will still attack as phantasm’s and minions would but necro’s although not their F ability cant control minions and mesmer’s cant use F abilities either, invul/daze would be just as OP in Downed state for a mesmer..
It is not fair and it should not be this way. Ranger downed vs every class downed = ranger win in most cases.

Ranger should have removed F1-F4 and the pet still could randomyl attack other people. Then it would be the same as other classes. I mean he is downed… how does he want to give commands to the pet if he is downed and can’t do anything else?

If he can do stuff like shouting something to a pet to tell him to do stuff then I’m sure at engineers would be able to press a button to make the turrets use overcharged ability for example. Should not need all your physical strength and still be possible while downed.

For other classes there could be similar stuff.

firebreathz.7692:

“Your pet damage scales with your stats” – no it does not..

Because pets already have insane stats on their own…thing that leads to another broken mechanic aka bunker rangers being able to get a controllable “pocket warrior” allowing them do deal 5+k crits while specced full bunker…all they have to do is spamming random heals, traps and dodges while their pet does the job for them…but this is another point…

I do see the points you all make.. I just dont want my pet to stop loving me..

anyways as for lickwounds underwater.. i aviod underwater combat as i feel it’s way out of hand too.. but i feel on land it’s not that op.. i’ll admit it’s a great class mechanic, just dont take it away from me.. buff ur’s by all means..

but i cant help but feel that this has been accounted for in the stats somewhere
and that it’s balanced for some unknown reasons to us.. but im biased as this skill is pretty handy.. but for tpvp it’s very balanced.. you rarely ever see a ranger actually rally from lick wounds..

Can, maybe, a dev give us an answer once and for all, or they’re just too busy running around with 5 sig wars? Yes, i’m looking at you Karl >.<

firebreathz.7692:

you rarely ever see a ranger actually rally from lick wounds..

I see it quite a lot actually.. Every ranger will stop their downed healing(bandage) ability to use lick wounds as it is far superior. Not only does it istantly revive your pet from being defeated as well as giving it full HP but, it is also like another player is coming to rez you.

I can understand that you like this extra, and taking advantage of it can not be called exploiting.. The matter of the fact though is that this is not a balanced skill.

Even if i tried my sinks and pulls(underwater CC) on the pet ranger it wouldnt interrupt the skill. The only way is too focus and kill the pet when the ranger can just instantly revive it again a few secs later.

F skills while downed and the underwater lick wounds is too OP.. personally lick wounds should be replaced by another skill underwater. On land it is fine…i guess..

Every class needs balancing, i main a mesmer and we just got a PHAT nerf! I am not going to complain about it though.. The more balanced the game the more fun it will be for everyone.

firebreathz.7692:

“Your pet damage scales with your stats” – no it does not..

Sorry, I wasn’t specific enough.
Pet Attribute Bonus is an attribute unique to ranger that improves pet attributes. It is increased by the trait line Beastmastery. Each point spent in this line grants +10 to each of your pet’s primary attributes. THIS scales damage. Plus some traits, plus some utilities. Semantical argument on this at best. Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

firebreathz.7692:

“The base damage on your weapons is superior to Necro pretty much without exception (look at the numbers” – your neglecting all the condition damage you have and not to mention consume conditions..

Consume is a 1.25s slot 6 skill with no bearing whatsoever on weapons, furthermore it is extremely prone to interrupt due to the obvious animation and long cast (not to mention lack of access to stability without 30 trait investment). In terms of condition damage Scepter can apply bleeds marginally better than Short Bow at the cost of 300 less range, no AoE poison, longer CD (by 1s each) on the 2 and 3 skills, no finisher, and no swiftness or evade (apples to apples just looking at 1-3).

firebreathz.7692:

“Necro because their weapons are all balanced on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from minions” – and rangers are balanced in exactly the same way..on the assumption that they are getting passive damage from pets..

Exactly my point. There seems to be an assumption that Ranger is getting less damage from their pets than necro, and that is not the case.

firebreathz.7692:

yes this is A perk of being a ranger.. are you saying you have no perks at all?

edit: omfg it’s so unfair a necro can use DS and as a ranger I cant do the same.. /QQ

Childish.
No, I am not saying that other classes do not have perks. I am laying out an argument that the ability to manipulate your primary mechanic while in down state is imbalanced as the original post inferred, and I used Necro as an example. No other class in the game gets access to their profession mechanic in down, and no other pets have the functionality of Ranger pets. I am simply applying logic without being a DB, and backing that logic with facts and observations. You can disagree, but implying that I came here just to QQ is inaccurate, and silly.

Archaon.6245:

Can, maybe, a dev give us an answer once and for all, or they’re just too busy running around with 5 sig wars? Yes, i’m looking at you Karl >.<

So, you got kitten by a Ranger, and all that you do is coming QQ here? Pets can’t do 5k with every crit, only cats can reach that damage under some conditions (jaguar in stealth + Pet’s Prowess trait vs GCs). And pet’s are easily avoidable , because their attacks are broken.
If you think that a BM ranger is easy to play, just try it.

Use your F1-F4 skills while downed?

I’d be happy just to have a reason to use my 1-5 skills.
The only key I use when my Engineer goes down is M.

wipol.1528:

Archaon.6245:

Can, maybe, a dev give us an answer once and for all, or they’re just too busy running around with 5 sig wars? Yes, i’m looking at you Karl >.<

So, you got kitten by a Ranger, and all that you do is coming QQ here? Pets can’t do 5k with every crit, only cats can reach that damage under some conditions (jaguar in stealth + Pet’s Prowess trait vs GCs). And pet’s are easily avoidable , because their attacks are broken.
If you think that a BM ranger is easy to play, just try it.

This is not about is ranger easy to play or not..no one stated it was easy..
This is about the imbalances within the class mechanics

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Sorry, I wasn’t specific enough.
Pet Attribute Bonus is an attribute unique to ranger that improves pet attributes. It is increased by the trait line Beastmastery. Each point spent in this line grants +10 to each of your pet’s primary attributes. THIS scales damage. Plus some traits, plus some utilities. Semantical argument on this at best. Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

so in replacement of that skill we have “hunger” +1% to life force pool each trait point.. so necro’s get more survive and rangers get more damage.. seems about right and balanced.. the necro verison benifits him.. the ranger his pet.. both have there pro’s and con’s

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Consume is a 1.25s slot 6 skill with no bearing whatsoever on weapons, furthermore it is extremely prone to interrupt due to the obvious animation and long cast (not to mention lack of access to stability without 30 trait investment). In terms of condition damage Scepter can apply bleeds marginally better than Short Bow at the cost of 300 less range, no AoE poison, longer CD (by 1s each) on the 2 and 3 skills, no finisher, and no swiftness or evade (apples to apples just looking at 1-3).

ok forget consume it was an after thought..
first your comparing a 1h wep to a 2h wep.. you mention “no AoE poison, longer CD (by 1s each) on the 2 and 3 skills, no finisher, and no swiftness or evade” but neglect to state you get “Feast of Corruption: Strike your target, dealing additional damage and gaining life force for each condition on them.” apples to bannas more like..

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Exactly my point. There seems to be an assumption that Ranger is getting less damage from their pets than necro, and that is not the case.

not heard of that one

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Childish.
No, I am not saying that other classes do not have perks. I am laying out an argument that the ability to manipulate your primary mechanic while in down state is imbalanced as the original post inferred, and I used Necro as an example. No other class in the game gets access to their profession mechanic in down, and no other pets have the functionality of Ranger pets. I am simply applying logic without being a DB, and backing that logic with facts and observations. You can disagree, but implying that I came here just to QQ is inaccurate, and silly.

srry rereading that it didnt come off as I planned..

my side of the arguement was that there are lots of things we cant do that others can.. thats what makes this an mmo instead of a first person shooter with all the same skills..

im all for balance.. and letting other classes use their f skill is fine by me.. just dont take it away from me

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

Yes, because our damage is split between us and our pet. A Mesmer can hit very hard, with or without clones, we can’t.

Psych.6527:

This is not about is ranger easy to play or not..no one stated it was easy..
This is about the imbalances within the class mechanics

It’s difficult to make comparisons because mechanisms behind ours pets are unique and different from all others class. Pets are part of us for better or worse
But yes, Lick Wounds is a bit OP underwater because there aren’t stomps.

firebreathz.7692:

im all for balance.. and letting other classes use their f skill is fine by me.. just dont take it away from me

Other classes would excel too much in downed state with their F skills.. It would also be more technical too add 7 compared to removing 1..

The best way to balance is leaving everyone without F skills in downed state IMHO..
It is not only that ranger downed abilities that are a problem though, other classes need buffing on downed abilities as well or atleast reworking on the downed skills..

TBH i would much rather have it without the downed state at all, although it is a nice twist and can be the reason for your defeat or victory.. I really hate the downed ability when i take down 1 or 2 people and then before you can stomp them, back up arrives from the other side of the map.. Technically a win, end results says different though.

wipol.1528:

It’s difficult to make comparisons because mechanisms behind ours pets are unique and different from all others class. Pets are part of us for better or worse
But yes, Lick Wounds is a bit OP underwater because there aren’t stomps.

I understand that different mechanics are involved for every class. Yes, pets are meant to be a big part of the rangers damage/mitigation/ Other uses? I am not really keen on going onto pets should be 1/3 of ranger damage and then ranger gets buff..

But, I still think it is kind of unfair you can pull out your full damage(most) while downed. As a phant mesmer myself, They are also a big portion of my damage but their health pool is very low and with long CD’s. My downed state can be very situational being i go down and have 3 Hard hitting phants up, or mitigation phant or even clones. I could end up being with 0 clones up. Every classes mechanics are very much different.

I can not do anything with those phants when i am downed though.. they do what i tell them to do before i go down, and dont you think they care a little bout us as well? i mean I know i have abused my phants and clones and shattered them into billions of butterflies but they are still me..

wipol.1528:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

Yes, because our damage is split between us and our pet. A Mesmer can hit very hard, with or without clones, we can’t.

Psych.6527:

This is not about is ranger easy to play or not..no one stated it was easy..
This is about the imbalances within the class mechanics

It’s difficult to make comparisons because mechanisms behind ours pets are unique and different from all others class. Pets are part of us for better or worse
But yes, Lick Wounds is a bit OP underwater because there aren’t stomps.

“Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.”

so your saying 4k damage per clone shatter + all the phantoms does less damage than a ranger pet? have you even seen a mesmer side point defender in Tpvp?

im usually at half hp of my 16k after the first wave if i cant dodge it.. love to see my pet pull that off as consistently and as fast as this..

firebreathz.7692:

srry rereading that it didnt come off as I planned..

my side of the arguement was that there are lots of things we cant do that others can.. thats what makes this an mmo instead of a first person shooter with all the same skills..

im all for balance.. and letting other classes use their f skill is fine by me.. just dont take it away from me

No worries.

Lets think about what the F skills would do for other classes before we say that would be ok.

Warrior – gets to burst from Down… Hmm. They would still suck, so whatever.

Ele – Swap attunements with no access to weapon skills… Well I dunno what value this would have the attunement bonuses aren’t going to save you.

Mesmer – A burst, Invuln, Interrupt and Condition. Might be a bit tough to kill given that functionality.

Necro – Gets up, walks away, Fears a guy, teleports to another and chills, siphons some LF to stay up a second or two longer… Kinda like Vengeance, only you just go back to down when it ends. Seems tricky, but not wildly OP. I believe this was the original design intent of DS actually.

Engi – Their Down is so bad right now, but Toss Elixir R… Nope, Can’t give them an auto rally every 2 min. That is just stupid.

Guardian – Virtue of Resolve an instant 1.6k+ heal in down state = Invincibility… Can’t do it.

Thief -Shadowstep, possibly stealth(if traited), possibly 2x (if they can steal from another thief)… Might be enough stealth to guarantee a rez sometimes, might not, it would just be annoying, and take forever to kill them. They are already annoying.

I don’t like knee-jerk reaction nerfs, but I think taking away pet mechanics from rangers in Down is the lesser evil than making some classes invincible and not really giving others anything.

firebreathz.7692:

wipol.1528:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

Yes, because our damage is split between us and our pet. A Mesmer can hit very hard, with or without clones, we can’t.

Psych.6527:

This is not about is ranger easy to play or not..no one stated it was easy..
This is about the imbalances within the class mechanics

It’s difficult to make comparisons because mechanisms behind ours pets are unique and different from all others class. Pets are part of us for better or worse
But yes, Lick Wounds is a bit OP underwater because there aren’t stomps.

“Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.”

so your saying 4k damage per clone shatter + all the phantoms does less damage than a ranger pet? have you even seen a mesmer side point defender in Tpvp?

im usually at half hp of my 16k after the first wave if i cant dodge it.. love to see my pet pull that off as consistently and as fast as this..

That is for shatter mesmers.. being a different spec i get 3-4k total damage if i shatter all my phants and clones..

this puts me at a disadvantage though as that is my sustained DPS gone.. Even i get nuked down by shatter mesmers if they connect me..Heck that AoE even knocks out all my DPS..

I have a burst combo most people do.. These combo’s are made to eat away at the health of the opposition. This requires me to use 5 different skills as fast as possible though, not only giving me long CD’s but also easily avoidable.. That makes up for the damage it does.

I do not see the point of downed. Its just delaying death

Psych.6527:

firebreathz.7692:

wipol.1528:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.

Yes, because our damage is split between us and our pet. A Mesmer can hit very hard, with or without clones, we can’t.

Psych.6527:

This is not about is ranger easy to play or not..no one stated it was easy..
This is about the imbalances within the class mechanics

It’s difficult to make comparisons because mechanisms behind ours pets are unique and different from all others class. Pets are part of us for better or worse
But yes, Lick Wounds is a bit OP underwater because there aren’t stomps.

“Fact is that Ranger pet can be made to do far more damage than even phantasm, which can far outclass minions in damage.”

so your saying 4k damage per clone shatter + all the phantoms does less damage than a ranger pet? have you even seen a mesmer side point defender in Tpvp?

im usually at half hp of my 16k after the first wave if i cant dodge it.. love to see my pet pull that off as consistently and as fast as this..

That is for shatter mesmers.. being a different spec i get 3-4k total damage if i shatter all my phants and clones..

this puts me at a disadvantage though as that is my sustained DPS gone.. Even i get nuked down by shatter mesmers if they connect me..Heck that AoE even knocks out all my DPS..

I have a burst combo most people do.. These combo’s are made to eat away at the health of the opposition. This requires me to use 5 different skills as fast as possible though, not only giving me long CD’s but also easily avoidable.. That makes up for the damage it does.

“but also easily avoidable.. That makes up for the damage it does.”

not if your trying to defend a node.. that easily avoidable bit instantly disappears, there is no warning of a shatter about to happen.. if your both on a node.. you can side step my pet all day..

wipol.1528:

Archaon.6245:

Can, maybe, a dev give us an answer once and for all, or they’re just too busy running around with 5 sig wars? Yes, i’m looking at you Karl >.<

So, you got kitten by a Ranger, and all that you do is coming QQ here? Pets can’t do 5k with every crit, only cats can reach that damage under some conditions (jaguar in stealth + Pet’s Prowess trait vs GCs). And pet’s are easily avoidable , because their attacks are broken.
If you think that a BM ranger is easy to play, just try it.

Already playing ranger, just for you to know…and yes…it’s kittening easy to play if you’re already used to mesmer (Wich is definately on another skill cap level)..hunter will soon be my forth champ title, and with no dubt the easiest of them all..and now it also got buffed…let’s go cut some cookies…but some mechanics just feel dumb…and i can’t resist asking why are they supposed to work like that..and still no answer on why ranger can use normal skills outside downed bar while others can’t…i don’t give a kitten to those who only play ranger and obviously love their rupt spamming while downed…i just asked for an answer from dev’s….if it’s ok i wonder why thay can’t just say it, with a decent reason motivating that of course..

firebreathz.7692:

4k damage per clone shatter

sure…in narnia maybe…mesmer managed to shatter for 4k crits some months ago for a brief period due to a bug (Hotfixed after some days)…and meanwhile forum literally exploded…

Archaon.6245:

firebreathz.7692:

4k damage per clone shatter

sure…in narnia maybe…mesmer managed to shatter for 4k crits some months ago for a brief period due to a bug (Hotfixed after some days)…and meanwhile forum literally exploded…

that may well be the case.. but they still output more damage than a ranger pet..

and my point still stands about being at half hp after one shatter combo in tpvp.. and it’s not like im running a CG or anything.. im a full bunker..

so i have 16k hp thats around 8k damage per combo.. and it’s not on a really long CD as it’s not long before the other half of my hp goes..

so clones+phantoms doing less damage than a pet.. from my side of things.. is a complete load of bull

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

firebreathz.7692:

4k damage per clone shatter

sure…in narnia maybe…mesmer managed to shatter for 4k crits some months ago for a brief period due to a bug (Hotfixed after some days)…and meanwhile forum literally exploded…

that may well be the case.. but they still output more damage than a ranger pet..

and my point still stands about being at half hp after one shatter combo in tpvp.. and it’s not like im running a CG or anything.. im a full bunker..

so i have 16k hp thats around 8k damage per combo.. and it’s not on a really long CD as it’s not long before the other half of my hp goes..

so clones+phantoms doing less damage than a pet.. from my side of things.. is a complete load of bull

Oh well i’ve got <15k hp on thief and a shatter combo almost oneshots me, and it’s fine, cause it’s easy to avoid if you know how it works just a little…good players are really hard to hit with a good shatter combo, they usually manage to evade at least part if not all of it every time cause it’s really predictable since you need a chain of 3-4+ skills to pull it out effectively and if you’re facing a shatter mesmer you know, like dps thieves, that they focus on one thing to deal dmg, so you’ve just to wait for it….when it’s gone the will do barely nothing for enough time to kill them…or for just waiting for them to drop due to conditions…since, you know, shatter mesmers don’t have condition removal…

Anyway i made this thread not to talk about who deals more dmg, why pets got buffed while they were already crazy and so on…

I’m just aking why one class doesn’t follow a general rule while downed like everyone else…

warrior goes down. kitten our f1 skill. i want kick! Or a banner to beat them over the head with!

lol, such a laughable thread!

You lot need to try the Engineer downed state, now thats a serious “Just kill me already” moment!

Ranger pet can solo a warrior while ranger is downed because necro golems instantly die when they get wet. Something has to balance out the suckage.

fishybill.6908:

lol, such a laughable thread!

You lot need to try the Engineer downed state, now thats a serious “Just kill me already” moment!

Bet you never tried self res or big ol’ bomb. Try them out before i make you cry blood instead. Love, necro.

firebreathz.7692:

Archaon.6245:

firebreathz.7692:

4k damage per clone shatter

sure…in narnia maybe…mesmer managed to shatter for 4k crits some months ago for a brief period due to a bug (Hotfixed after some days)…and meanwhile forum literally exploded…

that may well be the case.. but they still output more damage than a ranger pet..

and my point still stands about being at half hp after one shatter combo in tpvp.. and it’s not like im running a CG or anything.. im a full bunker..

so i have 16k hp thats around 8k damage per combo.. and it’s not on a really long CD as it’s not long before the other half of my hp goes..

so clones+phantoms doing less damage than a pet.. from my side of things.. is a complete load of bull

So you mean each illusion did 2k plus iPersona not really much per illusion if you think about it. And it is on a fairly long CD considering that a proper mesmer combo is diversion+mindwrack. And on death breakdown from a ranger the top damage applier is the pet. Currently mesmer “power” phantasm SUCKS thanks to Anets top notch programming on the Feb. 26th patch which STILL hasn’t been fixed. Meanwhile rangers can pew pew with their SB+earth sigil bleeding mesmers dry. But the point of this thread us why it isnt fair that ranger can use profession mechanic while downed and no other class can

Guess what? Still no answer…as usual…

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Anet dont like to talk about their mistakes.
/thread

Correction, Anet do not do mistakes. It’s all in our heads.

I want to be able to swap attunement while downed and have access to 12 more abilities while downed.

I think to make it balanced: The pet should be “out of control” and run around randomly attacking even allies(or at least attack no one or only 1 random enemy… but certainly not being able to be commanded to attack 1 specific enemy).

Pet skill should not be able to be used and all the other F1-F4 stuff should not be able to be used.

Then other classes wouldn’t need to be improved. Of course he can still keep the 1-4 downed skills. Pet healing should be allowed since it is not outside the 1-4 and an extra like F1-F4 which other classes don’t have. It is not that much if you just finish 2 times(first time interrupted by 2) if no one else is around to disturb you. Even if he manages to start 3 to heal the next finish kills him. You really need to be very slow… to not finish him…

which probably means other enemies are nearby distracting you and that means it should be harder to kill(they even could rez him).

Luthan.5236:

I think to make it balanced: The pet should be “out of control” and run around randomly attacking even allies(or at least attack no one or only 1 random enemy… but certainly not being able to be commanded to attack 1 specific enemy).

Definately

firebreathz.7692:

the main reason I can think of is this..

a ranger is the only pet mechanic class in the game end of..

the reason i say this is simple.. a ranger HAS to take his pet into a fight.. necro minions are optional.. clones on the other hand kinda have to be use/taken but they are just clones of you.. you go down.. technically they go down..

ranger is a different story.. we have a bond with a separate life for that is still alive if we go down.. and seeing as we have that bond.. he doesn’t want to see me die..

not what you want to hear.. but it’s close to the truth behind the reasoning for this..

…

Pets disappear when the ranger gets moa transformed, and the ranger is unable to use F1-4 skills while moa transformed.

Clearly F1-4 skills are not intended to be available in these situations. It is a bug that F1-4 can be used by downed rangers.