Guild Wars 2

I recently got back after a 1 month break. Game feels dull and boring the AE in this game makes it feel it so weak pointless. There no chain cc or peels its all like bomb this dude when they go to res bomb AE the whole game has become this one big AE Skilless mess with npcs running all over there place theres 60000 thousand rangers running around with pet builds everyone uses rock dog runes and mesmer just blowing kitten up around them its like your constanrly taking splash damage thats why warriors suck its not because of the class needs a buff the whole game needs one big nerf eliminate this AE playstyle its kittened WELLs and traps and engys nades like seriously ? ontop of everything its a node capture game. This game used to feel great now its kittened. We need a direct dmg game. with single conditions we need more cc

Just to clarify; AE = Area Effect (AOE)?

People still cling to the idea that taking someone out of the fight for 8s with a single button takes skill?

Aldizi.5671:

I recently got back after a 1 month break. Game feels dull and boring the AE in this game makes it feel it so weak pointless. There no chain cc or peels its all like bomb this dude when they go to res bomb AE the whole game has become this one big AE Skilless mess with npcs running all over there place theres 60000 thousand rangers running around with pet builds everyone uses rock dog runes and mesmer just blowing kitten up around them its like your constanrly taking splash damage thats why warriors suck its not because of the class needs a buff the whole game needs one big nerf eliminate this AE playstyle its kittened WELLs and traps and engys nades like seriously ? ontop of everything its a node capture game. This game used to feel great now its kittened. We need a direct dmg game. with single conditions we need more cc

The devs mentioned AoE as a problem months ago and have done zero to fix it. Don’t forget engineer aoe to me thats the most annoying aoe in the game right now. Imo if aoe is powerful it should have a tiny range/radius otherwise it should be very weak. Rock Dog shouldnt exist in pvp imo although not sure what it has to do with aoe.

Yep, it’s a departure from the norm.

hint 1: pay attention
hint 2: dodge

AOE might not be so prevalent if it wasn’t the only way to combat stealth, rampant clone/AI generation, or offer the best means to contribute to team fights for classes that aren’t bunkers or built to melee gib someone.

Early on after release, aoe was the widely promoted response for everyone asking how to deal with the above issues.

Careful what you wish for I guess…

AOE is fine. Moving on.

I think someone’s mad because the game punishes you for glass-cannoning badly..

I play a ranger as my main I’m not mad. A trap ranger at that I just feel like both my specs feel so skilless Beastmaster put ur pet on someone and dodge around !!!!! Whew that’s super fun… throw traps in the middle of everything and watch it melt as my short bow does auto shots whewwwww that’s so much fun… The only moment of of excitement is when I shortbow 5 and and interrupt a players heal and then my traps gib him or that auto attack I was talking about. As a ranger im not even effected by most of this ae I just thing like A Scatter trap into and ice trap while I dps another target is much more skillful adds depth.

ALSO Enemy cast bars should be implemented its kittened that if your an asura in the middle of all that ae you cant see wtf there casting… this game just feels like a Picasso

The only reason AoE feels like such is because we have one game mode to work off of, and it just so happens to be the one game mode where AoE probably plays one of if not it’s biggest role. Team needs to have at least 1 player standing on the point and then you can just lay down your AoE without much thought (I’ll either hit him or move them off the point = win/win). This is especially a problem on points with a smaller cap radius. If/when we get more gametypes this would change and wouldn’t be as much of a problem. Seeing as thats not going to be happening deal with all the crap clutter on the screen and do your best. Though, they are at least looking at that part of the problem.

While the game mode definitely promotes AoE, it’s not the whole problem. People AoE, because it doesn’t come at much of a cost. AoEs should have a drop off based on targetkitten, when it comes to damage.

There’s a very obvious theme to current AoE abilities and that’s they will do as much or nearly as much as another ability. Just take a look at Sigil of Air and Sigil of Fire. The first is single target and the second is AoE. Sigil of Air deals all of 10% more damage. Why would you want to hit a target for 1650, when you could just hit multiple targets for 1500.

On top of that you will often hit people that are out of range for you, but if you proc a fire sigil off another target, your AoE will actually hit that target and pressure it regardless. The same goes for targets you can’t see but are still there.

The only means to counter stealth and massive illusion generation is through aoe, like someone has said. Likewise, there’s too much aoe effects, and party support effects are almost always aoe too. This makes AoE king in this game’s combat.

The devs have already said they plan to tone down aoe effects (but that was months ago, not sure if they still intend to do that). However, I also hope, should aoes get nerfed, that generating clones with a mesmer becomes harder, and pets’ across all professions lose some of their HP, to make it actually worth the time hitting them with single target damage. Of course, if tab targetting skipped (most) pets and if stealth did not lose targetting, it would also help tons to counter the problem with pets and stealth.

Med.6150:

While the game mode definitely promotes AoE, it’s not the whole problem. People AoE, because it doesn’t come at much of a cost. AoEs should have a drop off based on targetkitten, when it comes to damage.

There’s a very obvious theme to current AoE abilities and that’s they will do as much or nearly as much as another ability. Just take a look at Sigil of Air and Sigil of Fire. The first is single target and the second is AoE. Sigil of Air deals all of 10% more damage. Why would you want to hit a target for 1650, when you could just hit multiple targets for 1500.

On top of that you will often hit people that are out of range for you, but if you proc a fire sigil off another target, your AoE will actually hit that target and pressure it regardless. The same goes for targets you can’t see but are still there.

Med, you took Sigil of Air and Fire as and example, when you could instead pick Clusterbomb?
I mean, a thief could take pistols and even if the projectile would hit the target, it would deal like 1k damage. But it will probably get blocked by some random clone.
Or a nice 1200 range clusterbomb, for lol 5k crits on AoE.

Not that fire and air are closely balanced.
Fire should probably not deal more than 500 damage.

Aoe is just dull and stupid I cant believe anet wont do anything about this maybe because wvw

I would argue the exact opposite, that AE increases the skill cap and perhaps even the floor by a margin. Area damage allows zoning, requires constant movement, and is entirely avoidable by players. It also requires good placement by the caster. Single target damage requires…

pressing a button.

Your post really does nothing to prove your point of AE actually removing skill of the game. Judging by your attitude of “this takes no skill”, you don’t want single-target button-mashing spells (although you did say “direct dmg spells”), so what DO you want? Single-target, aimed projectiles? In theory that would be fun as hell, but it is unfortunately impractical, because varying latencies and server delays would make the registry wonky as all hell. Not to mention that would just make the game seem more of a cluster-kitten, which seems to be your issue with AE in the first place.

As for CC, I like the minimal CC approach GW2 currently has. Each class has enough CC to do what they have to do, but they don’t have enough to skilllessly lock out an enemy. This is a preference thing, although I don’t think instant 5 second stuns have any place in GW2, and I don’t think stunlocking or fear spamming has any place in any game.

AoE is over the top. Personal opinion. Why bring single target to the fight when you can kill everyone at once?

As a Warrior I wish I had access to more AE damage, because the majority of our skills only affect 1 – 4 people, more if we are position correctly, unfortunately its all PBAoE that we have, which puts us in harms way to deliver the damage… which is fine, if warriors had the sustain to do it without coming out of it at 25% health from all the outside sources of damage.

I will disagree about there being minimal CC in GW2, theres actually quite a lot of it, and Warrior’s have the majority of it through utility and hammer/mace/shield skills.

I can effectively lock out a single target through stuns & kb’s with certain builds until they are downed, but it’s a long chain, easy to mess up, and the amount of stun breakers in the game makes it difficult to execute on anyone, especially Tourney Play.

I actually think it’s sickening to see how many stun breakers other classes get compared to Warriors… you know, the class that actually needs to stay on their target to do damage?… On my Mesmer I have so many stun breaks, that between stealth, clones & those stun breakers, I am almost never incapacitated.

The problem with melees is not the lack of stunbreaks. It’s the fact that they have to go into meleerange in a game where conquest forces ppl to fight on and near a little circle and all the AoE rains down. This makes especially warriors a nearly useless class to play.

Varonth.5830:

Med, you took Sigil of Air and Fire as and example, when you could instead pick Clusterbomb?

I was trying to point out the issue using an example that was easy to understand and reproduce for anybody who wanted to verify the veracity of it.

I mean, a thief could take pistols and even if the projectile would hit the target, it would deal like 1k damage. But it will probably get blocked by some random clone.
Or a nice 1200 range clusterbomb, for lol 5k crits on AoE.

I agree, I don’t think this is balanced either. Obviously there are more considerations to be made when comparing Pistols and Shortbows or say an Unload to a Cluster, but none of these would justify the the fact that AoE is pretty much as strong as single target abilities.

Demonsoul.9271:

I would argue the exact opposite, that AE increases the skill cap and perhaps even the floor by a margin. Area damage allows zoning, requires constant movement, and is entirely avoidable by players. It also requires good placement by the caster. Single target damage requires…

pressing a button.

Your post really does nothing to prove your point of AE actually removing skill of the game. Judging by your attitude of “this takes no skill”, you don’t want single-target button-mashing spells (although you did say “direct dmg spells”), so what DO you want? Single-target, aimed projectiles? In theory that would be fun as hell, but it is unfortunately impractical, because varying latencies and server delays would make the registry wonky as all hell. Not to mention that would just make the game seem more of a cluster-kitten, which seems to be your issue with AE in the first place.

As for CC, I like the minimal CC approach GW2 currently has. Each class has enough CC to do what they have to do, but they don’t have enough to skilllessly lock out an enemy. This is a preference thing, although I don’t think instant 5 second stuns have any place in GW2, and I don’t think stunlocking or fear spamming has any place in any game.

Articulate, rational replies have no place on this forum, sir.

Demonsoul.9271:

I would argue the exact opposite, that AE increases the skill cap and perhaps even the floor by a margin. Area damage allows zoning, requires constant movement, and is entirely avoidable by players. It also requires good placement by the caster. Single target damage requires…

pressing a button.

Your post really does nothing to prove your point of AE actually removing skill of the game. Judging by your attitude of “this takes no skill”, you don’t want single-target button-mashing spells (although you did say “direct dmg spells”), so what DO you want? Single-target, aimed projectiles? In theory that would be fun as hell, but it is unfortunately impractical, because varying latencies and server delays would make the registry wonky as all hell. Not to mention that would just make the game seem more of a cluster-kitten, which seems to be your issue with AE in the first place.

As for CC, I like the minimal CC approach GW2 currently has. Each class has enough CC to do what they have to do, but they don’t have enough to skilllessly lock out an enemy. This is a preference thing, although I don’t think instant 5 second stuns have any place in GW2, and I don’t think stunlocking or fear spamming has any place in any game.

ya hitting someone with AE who has to stay inside a small circle is extreme skill cap brah. Or AoEing people trying to rez somone, mad skillz

AoE isn’t the Problem, it’s the narrow Areas where most Teamfights happen that are the Problem and the fact that most Maps offer a hard to reach spot for ranged AoE-spammers (and of the most common AoE-Heavy builds in sPvP, many of them have a large range, like Nade-Spammers).

There is for example no excuse on Midpoint of Foefire when your Team takes too much DMG from AoE; there’s more than enough room to spread out and have good Positioning, but on Points like Mid on Niflhel or Kyhlo, it’s a whole other story.

Also, I don’t think any AoE besides the builds that are clearly OP (Nade-Engi, but not simply because it’s AoE, but because it’s too strong in general) are a bad influence on the gameplay when considering damaging downed players – it’s simply a thing you’ll have to keep in mind when you set up your Teamcomposition.

Its all about position guys. If you are getting hailed by grenades or what-not from a player that takes a while to get to then that player chose a good spot. Simple as that.

Do you have to stand there and take the hit? NOOOOOOOOO!

You can move elsewhere and possibly get that dude to move out of position.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Its all about position guys. If you are getting hailed by grenades or what-not from a player that takes a while to get to then that player chose a good spot. Simple as that.

Do you have to stand there and take the hit? NOOOOOOOOO!

You can move elsewhere and possibly get that dude to move out of position.

such as moving off the point you’re defending,
or away from your teammate you’re ressing

When I read some of these answers I have the feeling I play a different game. Such as “if you take AoE-Dmg it’s your own fault”. Are you even know how conquest works or are you just hotjoining allday where staying on a node doesn’t matter at all?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

When I read some of these answers I have the feeling I play a different game. Such as “if you take AoE-Dmg it’s your own fault”. Are you even know how conquest works or are you just hotjoining allday where staying on a node doesn’t matter at all?

If one Person is on the Node, there’s no need for other Players to take AoE-DMG. It’s easier said than done though, because of the bad Map-design, which also makes Melee-classes way less useful.

There are AoE-Specs that are too Powerful, but it’s only indirectly linked to the AoE. Nade-Engi can do AoE – I don’t mind, but the Nades are overall too good.

If your Team seriously has Problems with AoE, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the AoE is too strong, because good Positioning can help a lot and atm. good Positioning is very rare in GW2, even at the Top-level. Also, and I don’t like this Point at all, you may need to look at your builds and make changes depending on the Map, because on certain Maps, Chars that do most DMG in Melee (Arcane-Ele, Thief, War, Bomb-Engi etc.) just don’t work too well.

*Edit: It’s IMHO the Combination of different things that can make certain AoE-Builds very very strong:

- Map-layout (small Areas where you need to fight and good Positions for ranged-spammers)
- Being high range: Together with the above Point, those builds not only avoid lots of DMG, but they can also comfortably spamm without having to go into the fight themselves.
- Very strong Builds (there are tons of AoE-Skills and Specs that don’t get played, because they aren’t strong enough)

Focus fire the engineer = no more ‘nades.
If there is a ’nade engineer on the other team and your teammate goes down; do not rez unless you can block projectiles. The engineer’s entire job is to wait for someone to be CC’d or downed so he can shower you with a blanket of grenades while you sit there trying to stomp\rez.
The hgh build most people run hardly has any defense aside from the 3s elixir S.

hackks.3687:

AOE might not be so prevalent if it wasn’t the only way to combat stealth, rampant clone/AI generation, or offer the best means to contribute to team fights for classes that aren’t bunkers or built to melee gib someone.

hackks nailed it.

It is a design issue with the game. Everything is so predicated upon clone generation, pets and other AI gobbledykitten that there needs to be a way to eliminate the garbage, skilless passive damage outputters from the battlefield, and AoE is the way to do it. Sadly it (the AoE) needs to be there. Unfortunately all the PvP has to offer is conquest, so the problem is compounded and it becomes a game of get one guy to stand in the circle while everyone else AoE nukes the bejeezus out of the circle. Whomever can stand in the AoE most effectively while pushing opponents out wins. Unless there is a mojor redesign from the core level the skill requirement for this game will remain low. That is ok, it can still be fun, but this is not, and will never be GW1.

PowerBottom.5796:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

When I read some of these answers I have the feeling I play a different game. Such as “if you take AoE-Dmg it’s your own fault”. Are you even know how conquest works or are you just hotjoining allday where staying on a node doesn’t matter at all?

If one Person is on the Node, there’s no need for other Players to take AoE-DMG. It’s easier said than done though, because of the bad Map-design, which also makes Melee-classes way less useful.

There are AoE-Specs that are too Powerful, but it’s only indirectly linked to the AoE. Nade-Engi can do AoE – I don’t mind, but the Nades are overall too good.

If your Team seriously has Problems with AoE, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the AoE is too strong, because good Positioning can help a lot and atm. good Positioning is very rare in GW2, even at the Top-level. Also, and I don’t like this Point at all, you may need to look at your builds and make changes depending on the Map, because on certain Maps, Chars that do most DMG in Melee (Arcane-Ele, Thief, War, Bomb-Engi etc.) just don’t work too well.

I should tell my mesmer than to take Feedback instead of portal.
On a serious note: legacy is no problem in terms of AoE, even Khylo is not a big deal. But on Forest it’s a heavy design fail of the map. Also I talked with other top-players and it seems like I’m not the only one who dislikes AoE in this game. Before I start to talk nonsense again, I want to agree with you. It’s not the AoE dmg mainly that creates this problem, more over the design of the maps and conquest itself that makes AoE ten times more effective than single target hits.

hackks.3687:

AOE might not be so prevalent if it wasn’t the only way to combat stealth, rampant clone/AI generation, or offer the best means to contribute to team fights for classes that aren’t bunkers or built to melee gib someone.

I don’t really Agree….

1) Stealth: If you don’t stun/immobilize the Target, he’ll just walk out of the AoE. On some builds that deal lots of bursty DMG, it’s a good Option, but that’s not true for AoE in general. When has a Staff-Ele ever killed a stealthed opponent?

2) Pets: Yeah, as if Pets are going to die in the most commonly used Ranger-builds. There’s no Point in damaging them, because most of the Pets that are used are extremely tanky, or the Ranger simply swaps the Pets.

3) Illusions: a good Illusion-Mesmer won’t have all Melee-Illusions that ball up easily, he’ll have a Ranged Pistol-dude, the Defender which is Melee, and the Berzerker, which is all over the place – so AoE won’t really do that much. For a shatter Meser, AoE is again only good, when it’s extremely burst or hinders movement or sth. which not all AoE does.

Look at what Builds with very strong AoE are currently used competetively:

- Nade-Engi: Simply OP, great against downed Players because of very low CD’s, Poison-Fields and long range.

- Thief with Shortbow: Extremely good 2nd Weapon, again with high DPS, Poison Field and you don’t even have to do anything but take the bow with you to make almost perfect use of it on almost any common Thief-build.

- Ele with Arcanes: The fact that he has a lot of AoE isn’t really important: he needs both arcanes for good burst and stuff like the Tooth and Phoenix are very very often single-target DPS. on a DD-Ele, the other Team would have to be braindead to eat lots of AoE on multiple Players, but other than the S/D-Ele, he is at least a bit more reliable against downed-Players. So even though this build has AoE, it really isn’t that strong.

- Necro: Pretty bad atm. Epidemic and Marks and stuff could be pretty good, but the Necro does basically nothing the Engi can do better besides boonstripping…

….what other AoE-Builds are there that are soooo Powerful?

You are all right and OP is wrong.

AoE spamming everything to death is good stuff, coordinated stun/fear/whatever locks are bad.

I just can’t figure out though why WoW ( which is ultimately a PvE game btw ) still has PvP that is more popular than GW2’s we-goin-e-sports PvP. Kinda weird.

Its more the fact that almost everyone has AE’s. Its the combination of necros engis mesmers eles rangers and now thiefs cluster bomb spaming kitten on point. Thats why warrios are broken you engage a guardian as a warrior on point your dead in seconds and not because they are targeting you its because you have no where to run.

Some stupid person said its positioning lol….

Yeah if i sit at my base and let them cap all points i wont get AE’d lol…

Kill the guy thats AOE is the general strat watch him run back to his home point for a loser lap ok get back in the fight try to kill the guard its raining nades wells traps… ITS Stupid and skilless

I think necros would be fixed too if they were the only AE class and maybe mesmers…

Engis should be direct dmg and rangers as well eles as well maybe like cone type e like a warrior small small radius… would fix alot of issues.

Didnt the devs say AE was a bit outof control awhile back so what they do add more??? lol dude when the game first started AE ’wasnt this crazy and it was fun now its like a birage of kitten all over the point.

Back in november well necros were op, but people learned not to stand on the node when they are not a bunker.

Mammoth.1975:

People still cling to the idea that taking someone out of the fight for 8s with a single button takes skill?

YES
Especially in this game where its SO EASY to Dodge or Stability that 2-4 Second Stun or immobilize.

The dodge mechanics in this game are amazing landing a stun or immobolize on a good player is not always easy. I agree in games like wow where you just take it its skilless in this game cc trains would require much more skill.

Blackjack.5621:

Back in november well necros were op, but people learned not to stand on the node when they are not a bunker.

So only guards can take other guards out ? Warriors should just all go rifle or longbow spec and rain kitten down on the guard with there AE teamates.. Thats why people dont take warriors and why Thiefs now are using cluster bomb non stop its the new meta RAIN AE on the Point. How does this seem fun to you guys?

O wow Engys can rain Stuff on point and have huge survive ability. Lets take engys and not necros because necros die fast. See if Necros and Mesmers where the only big AE classes there would be more well rounded teams with different strategy. There would be a point to taking warriors and necros and mixing teams up.

Aoe is the only way to escape having to be the master classes bunker eng/beast ranger/trap ranger/bunker guard/bunker necro in team play. You can just run arround and drop the bomb then.

Sprawl.3891:

Demonsoul.9271:

I would argue the exact opposite, that AE increases the skill cap and perhaps even the floor by a margin. Area damage allows zoning, requires constant movement, and is entirely avoidable by players. It also requires good placement by the caster. Single target damage requires…

pressing a button.

Your post really does nothing to prove your point of AE actually removing skill of the game. Judging by your attitude of “this takes no skill”, you don’t want single-target button-mashing spells (although you did say “direct dmg spells”), so what DO you want? Single-target, aimed projectiles? In theory that would be fun as hell, but it is unfortunately impractical, because varying latencies and server delays would make the registry wonky as all hell. Not to mention that would just make the game seem more of a cluster-kitten, which seems to be your issue with AE in the first place.

As for CC, I like the minimal CC approach GW2 currently has. Each class has enough CC to do what they have to do, but they don’t have enough to skilllessly lock out an enemy. This is a preference thing, although I don’t think instant 5 second stuns have any place in GW2, and I don’t think stunlocking or fear spamming has any place in any game.

ya hitting someone with AE who has to stay inside a small circle is extreme skill cap brah. Or AoEing people trying to rez somone, mad skillz

As opposed to a direct damage spell which can’t miss?

Not to mention AE damage is generally not even close to powerful enough to keep a downed opponent downed when they are being rezzed, nevermind downing a rezzing opponent.

Yes, hitting someone with an AE who has to stay inside a small circle takes more skill than a single-target spell, because it actually requires placement, and acts as a zoning tool, the player has to get out of the AoE as opposed to simply getting hit once and forgetting about it.

I don’t mean to glorify the simple act of placing AE, I just don’t understand how it takes any less skill than any other type of ability in the game. I’m still waiting for you to elaborate on this. What DO you want, and what is it about AE that you think makes the game take less skill? Your only real point thus far seems to be " its like your constanrly taking splash damage," which makes it seem like you just need more skill to deal with this AE… you realize GW2 has very prominent spell sprites and mesmer clones are actual models running at you before they explode, right?

Perhaps you should train a bit more in PvE to learn how to not stand in fire and read boss’s animations before you set foot in TPvP.

AoE is terrible in 8’s.. but it’s perfect in 5’s. The competitive scene is 5’s and what the balance of the game is focused on. You can play 4v4 in SC2, but nobody complains of the imbalance at that level.

Aldizi.5671:

Blackjack.5621:

Back in november well necros were op, but people learned not to stand on the node when they are not a bunker.

So only guards can take other guards out ? Warriors should just all go rifle or longbow spec and rain kitten down on the guard with there AE teamates.. Thats why people dont take warriors and why Thiefs now are using cluster bomb non stop its the new meta RAIN AE on the Point. How does this seem fun to you guys?

melee-only archetype doesn´t fit into this gamemode as roamer.

They said more than once that AOE’s are out of control. Anybody that has played some teamfights know that it’s an AOE spam party. I’m pretty sure most devs and players will say, yes, AOE needs to be toned down.

So why they did nothing ? Well, it’s not a skill, it’s some core part of the game, tone down it and suddenly all the balance flies throught the window.

So AOE sux, but it won’t go away any time soon.

Baldric.6781:

They said more than once that AOE’s are out of control. Anybody that has played some teamfights know that it’s an AOE spam party. I’m pretty sure most devs and players will say, yes, AOE needs to be toned down.

So why they did nothing ? Well, it’s not a skill, it’s some core part of the game, tone down it and suddenly all the balance flies throught the window.

So AOE sux, but it won’t go away any time soon.

I totally Agree with you a ton of work is needed to rework the system but buffing warriors to compensate for how broken the game is. Is not the Answer. They need to tone it down and Warriors and Necros will be in a much better state.

Classes that are fine right now if they fix other classes
Guardians
Warriors
Necros i believe this should be like an AE Class the only one
Mesmers
Elementalist Seem to be in a good state.

Fix Nerf or Buff this means take away and give

Engys
I see this class as a more offensive guardian using ulity and traps to control a not an outta control nade turret

Rangers
Traps and or the new BM specs are both kittened make a more single target oriented power shooter or single target condition spec traps should CC 1 Target and maybe have a longer range

Thief
if they fix cluster bomb and caltrops

make AOE effects friendly fire at a rate of 25% dmg, including to the caster.

promote movement on all sides, and melee won’t be as hurt by having to run in to AOE, so to speak, since it hurts everyone.

ps: give turrets more hit points. (shameless plug for engie fixes)