Guild Wars 2

Am I right? Discuss.

Pretty harsh to say that they’re no good

abc.5790:

Pretty harsh to say that they’re no good

Which is why the floor is open for debate.

I don’t think you realize the difference of skill level between general ranked PvP and the level of play in the LAN tournaments. AA are definitely top tier PvP’ers.

I will say, however, that the classes that each respective player of AA is best at has fallen out of the meta and they haven’t been able to adjust to the HoT/mesmer comp. Chaithh had to fall back to engi, and they put up two great matches, but they are rigid when it comes to multi classing and that has definitely hurt them since HoT.

I thought people would already notice they just play to take a few dollars home lol

It’s why they changed their team name. They knew that things may not go their way and they didn’t want to ruin the Abjured legacy.

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I don’t think you realize the difference of skill level between general ranked PvP and the level of play in the LAN tournaments. AA are definitely top tier PvP’ers.

I will say, however, that the classes that each respective player of AA is best at has fallen out of the meta and they haven’t been able to adjust to the HoT/mesmer comp. Chaithh had to fall back to engi, and they put up two great matches, but they are rigid when it comes to multi classing and that has definitely hurt them since HoT.

In the first season final, rnk 55 has to have Misha rerolling to necro. But they still managed to beat Astral who has probably the best necromancer in the world.

So I don’t think meta change is the excuse of not performing. They are obviously not as committed as the European teams. I guess lack of strong contenders is the biggest issue. They have slowly fallen down to PZ level recently.

We have a best necro in the world? sorry for the side talk but that is impressive given the punching bag state they have been left in. Real dedication I must look him up.

NA probably just don’t have any high level teams for them scrim vs. Most of the premade on NA are only good at farming solo q’ers and outside of NL/PZ are there really anyone worth mentioning?

Without constant practice/scrims it’s bound to happen so R I P.

They are still the best NA team.

I think it’s unfair to say that, while the meta definitely isn’t working in their favour it shouldn’t be an excuse when other teams have had to reroll people too. I think it’s a combination of NA not having the challenge EU has, the meta not being in their favour and the removal of bunker amulets.

It also probably doesn’t help that 3 years ago most high tier mesmer mains rerolled thief as it outclassed mesmer entirely, so NA didn’t have the practise vs mesmer for now when mesmer isn’t food for thieves in its current build. EU you always had Helseth in the high end community so they always had to know how to deal with portal, this wasn’t the case with NA and it showed when mesmer was a default pick in season 1 and back when the trait revamp came with the double mantra builds.

AA lose because they have a thief, last championship their opponent said the same thing during interview, that they just ignore the thief decapping and wipe them 5v4. they never learn i guess.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

AA lose because they have a thief, last championship their opponent said the same thing during interview, that they just ignore the thief decapping and wipe them 5v4. they never learn i guess.

I don’t think that was really the issue, Toker was doing a great job. You gotta remember that AA actually wiped Vermilion in 1 of those 5v4’s, and weren’t doing too bad in team fights in general.

My expertise is lacking with this level of organization, since I mainly solo or duo-Q but it seems to me AA didn’t rotate well enough, and failed to take advantage of their enemy’s mistakes. On Temple, it was a clear mistake leaving Chaith to deal with Kervv since it resulted in a stalemate that left Nas open to the others of the enemy team. I think that decision cost them the map. Sad as it is, it seems engis job is to babysit the necros in this meta.

Look at the maps they lost on vs the map they won.

I respect AA for sticking to a different company that definitely took more skill to play.

Maybe toker were even trying to make a point on how bad thieves are atm, in a way that devs can see it, top thieves getting slaughtered and being a non-factor at worlds.

Opponents comments after match were basicly “we didnt care about him, we just continued our off point kill game, 5v4 luls”

Exciton.8942:

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I don’t think you realize the difference of skill level between general ranked PvP and the level of play in the LAN tournaments. AA are definitely top tier PvP’ers.

I will say, however, that the classes that each respective player of AA is best at has fallen out of the meta and they haven’t been able to adjust to the HoT/mesmer comp. Chaithh had to fall back to engi, and they put up two great matches, but they are rigid when it comes to multi classing and that has definitely hurt them since HoT.

In the first season final, rnk 55 has to have Misha rerolling to necro. But they still managed to beat Astral who has probably the best necromancer in the world.

So I don’t think meta change is the excuse of not performing. They are obviously not as committed as the European teams. I guess lack of strong contenders is the biggest issue. They have slowly fallen down to PZ level recently.

Misha re-rolling necro is my point. Other teams can multi class and they benefit from it. AA are stuck with their comp, pretty much, because each respective player has much more skill with their main. Ie, Chaithh having to roll back to engi from druid. They have to play thief comp, which is at a disadvantage in the meta, because if Toker rolls to Rev, what is Phanta going to roll to? Already have wakey as ele. And nos is one of the best necros in the game. They are just in tough situations when it comes to adjusting to the meta, and it has definitely hurt them.

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

Exciton.8942:

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I don’t think you realize the difference of skill level between general ranked PvP and the level of play in the LAN tournaments. AA are definitely top tier PvP’ers.

I will say, however, that the classes that each respective player of AA is best at has fallen out of the meta and they haven’t been able to adjust to the HoT/mesmer comp. Chaithh had to fall back to engi, and they put up two great matches, but they are rigid when it comes to multi classing and that has definitely hurt them since HoT.

In the first season final, rnk 55 has to have Misha rerolling to necro. But they still managed to beat Astral who has probably the best necromancer in the world.

So I don’t think meta change is the excuse of not performing. They are obviously not as committed as the European teams. I guess lack of strong contenders is the biggest issue. They have slowly fallen down to PZ level recently.

Misha re-rolling necro is my point. Other teams can multi class and they benefit from it. AA are stuck with their comp, pretty much, because each respective player has much more skill with their main. Ie, Chaithh having to roll back to engi from druid. They have to play thief comp, which is at a disadvantage in the meta, because if Toker rolls to Rev, what is Phanta going to roll to? Already have wakey as ele. And nos is one of the best necros in the game. They are just in tough situations when it comes to adjusting to the meta, and it has definitely hurt them.

That’s a lack of planning or hoping ANet gave them a favourable meta. They have had months to play different classes and even different roles, phanta could have picked up druid or mesmer and let Toker be the thief or revenant as he’s very good within the role. I also don’t think Toker was that bad it’s just thief doesn’t dominate the +1 decap role like it used to. He was certainly minimising the enemy point gain from his decaps and forcing cool downs out from classes between nodes.

I feel their problem was running rev and thief as they had 2 classes in the same role while most other comps had team fighters/team support with the rev as the power damage and spiker.

All I’m saying is the one WTS they won was handed to them due to a very fortuitous patch a week or two prior to the tourney which heavily favoured their comp. Without such circumstances they can’t really do much without a cele meta to carry them.

CptCuddles.8912:

All I’m saying is the one WTS they won was handed to them due to a very fortuitous patch a week or two prior to the tourney which heavily favoured their comp. Without such circumstances they can’t really do much without a cele meta to carry them.

I would have to disagree because they are still the best NA team but if we dig deeper you can see the flaws.

You have seen wakkey and Chaith change classes of fear of it not performing as well when other players are playing it.

Also IMO there best player toker best class is the mot useless class among the Pro League.

You can also see that phanta is taking the multi class literal and you can see that he is just under performing to his opposite because EU players are having mains.

Ultimately it comes down to balance though. Anet has nerfed what they use to like doing which is sustain and let toker/nos play there roles. They can no longer do that since the meta has greatly changed each PvP season when core GW2 PvP had very good game play for awhile.

I think you can definitely say they have struggled far more then the top Eu teams adjusting to the classes they main being crushed at times and still. I mean it was hard to watch toker not engage in any fights really.

Until Anet make it so game play is more important then build structure they will probably struggle with the classes they main all becoming support classes.

People talk a lot about cele but don’t talk about one big difference between UE and NA teams. UE = dominance of Mesmer. NA lacks expert tier Mesmer’s that are must-have like rev in current meta. Thief even great one can’t offer that much utilities and options to influence team fights, rotations and much more.

I think Astral is strong team and if ever something change to moa-portal mechanics they might fast get back to the top. Or they just find somewhere in NA good Mesmer.

Astral’s composition is actually legit with a thief.

They have one thief roaming and controlling two points. The rest of the four team members fighting on the other point. They should win every 4v4 on paper because they have an elementalist while VM doesn’t. This is very obvious on their second map where VM even went for a 5v4 teamfight but still couldn’t gain anything out of it.

What VM did well is to exploit the lack of mobility in Astral’s composition. I think Chaith’s initial pick of druid is to deal with that lack of mobility. Engi is the better team fighter and worse roamer. So the counter to Astral’s teamfighting composition is to have two members roaming around to counter the thief(mesmer and druid in VM’s case) and let the other three take outnumbered fight. Even if they lose the fight they still have the other two points.

Exciton.8942:

Astral’s composition is actually legit with a thief.

They have one thief roaming and controlling two points. The rest of the four team members fighting on the other point. They should win every 4v4 on paper because they have an elementalist while VM doesn’t. This is very obvious on their second map where VM even went for a 5v4 teamfight but still couldn’t gain anything out of it.

What VM did well is to exploit the lack of mobility in Astral’s composition. I think Chaith’s initial pick of druid is to deal with that lack of mobility. Engi is the better team fighter and worse roamer. So the counter to Astral’s teamfighting composition is to have two members roaming around to counter the thief(mesmer and druid in VM’s case) and let the other three take outnumbered fight. Even if they lose the fight they still have the other two points.

Thats great to write down but they never really controlled 2 points ever.

Great in theory but toker never really engaged and won a fight so the word “control” which you used is a big fat lie or illusion if you actually believe that running thief worked.

I remember when somebody from commentators asked Rank 55 member how to counter thief…
His answer: ,,don’t pay to much attention to thief"

Mr Godlike.6098:

I remember when somebody from commentators asked Rank 55 member how to counter thief…
His answer: ,,don’t pay to much attention to thief"

hahahahaha yeah that was Levin who use to main thief

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

Edit: posting in toxic and uninformed thread

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

This was their biggest issue. Astral didn’t really have anything to counter the mesmer far push. Obviously the necro, and power rev were not viable choices for this role. Ele could have been used to force a stalemate, but portal allows mesmer to win any ways since they can go help in the team fight and just get a free decap if wakkey followed. That leaves toker, who could probably win the 1v1 eventually after being decapped and likely full capped, or chaith which ultimately didn’t work out. A ranger would have definitely helped in this instance, but chaith on ranger just wasn’t cutting it.

What is a cele ami?

FiveGauge.1357:

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

I don’t say that’s not true:) I had much more fun watching your team then PZ but still…I think you should consider Mesmer in your roster in this meta :/.

Maybe toker on rev, phanta mes, chaith scrapper. In any case, hindsight is 20/20. It’s easy to look back and critique their plan knowing it didn’t work out.

FiveGauge.1357:

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

Edit: posting in toxic and uninformed thread

Fair enough, it’s easy for me to armchair and critique knowing it didn’t work out, but that’s a fair tradeoff imo.

cyyrix.6105:

Maybe toker on rev, phanta mes, chaith scrapper. In any case, hindsight is 20/20. It’s easy to look back and critique their plan knowing it didn’t work out.

So true man

Alin.2468:

What is a cele ami?

It was a amulet that gave a little to all stats.

Mr Godlike.6098:

FiveGauge.1357:

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

I don’t say that’s not true:) I had much more fun watching your team then PZ but still…I think you should consider Mesmer in your roster in this meta :/.

I hate that should be their option instead of anet just balancing the game. These matches are past them and the next point is moving forward balance wise.

Asking players to switch classes because the game is broken should not be happening. Chaith is easily a top 3 engy in the game. The idea that he should be forced to play a different class is a insult.

Serious question, whats the point of having all the classes if 1-3 will be the OP? ORNG in qualifiers had the best Guardian in the game and the best EU thief in game and they placed 4th because they are not the elite 3. kitten has proven to be the top guardian in NA and he wasnt useful at all. Magic toker is still considered by the many to be the best thief in the game along with Nos as the best necro. Yet they seem to have absolutely no effect in a match and even based on team comp might actually be hurting the team.

Would you suggest Anet or the ESL demand the players play the OP classes?

@OP:

You are clueless. Saying the #1 team in any region is not good just shows jealously.

style.6173:

@OP:

You are clueless. Saying the #1 team in any region is not good just shows jealously.

You caught me. It’s the jealousy. Not esports enough.

kdaddy.5431:

Mr Godlike.6098:

FiveGauge.1357:

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

I don’t say that’s not true:) I had much more fun watching your team then PZ but still…I think you should consider Mesmer in your roster in this meta :/.

I hate that should be their option instead of anet just balancing the game. These matches are past them and the next point is moving forward balance wise.

Asking players to switch classes because the game is broken should not be happening. Chaith is easily a top 3 engy in the game. The idea that he should be forced to play a different class is a insult.

Serious question, whats the point of having all the classes if 1-3 will be the OP? ORNG in qualifiers had the best Guardian in the game and the best EU thief in game and they placed 4th because they are not the elite 3. kitten has proven to be the top guardian in NA and he wasnt useful at all. Magic toker is still considered by the many to be the best thief in the game along with Nos as the best necro. Yet they seem to have absolutely no effect in a match and even based on team comp might actually be hurting the team.

Would you suggest Anet or the ESL demand the players play the OP classes?

Honestly at this point, I feel Toker knew they were using an underperforming comp but kept thief anyways to prove a point. It’s not the first time either, shortly after HoT they did the same.

Toker is good but Thief obviously doesn’t work in this bunker/bruiser meta so, what can Anet do to fix this? Buff the toxic perma dodging staff builds?

Is it really a bunker/bruiser meta if the game at WTS level seems to be about keeping your necro alive long enough so that he gives your enemies cancer? Not to mention, having your rev surge of the mist that kitten up.

The problem in general for NA is there are no mesmers that are on the level of EU’s mesmers and no ranger on par with Rom.

Pretty much its like NFL teams that have 2nd tier QBs or NBA teams with 2nd tier PGs, you’ll never consistently beat the teams with elite QBs/PGs

Kuya.6495:

Is it really a bunker/bruiser meta if the game at WTS level seems to be about keeping your necro alive long enough so that he gives your enemies cancer? Not to mention, having your rev surge of the mist that kitten up.

Necro’s definitely are the exception until they generate enough life force to facetank a truck.

No mesmer and thief were the reasons. If toker or phanta could play mesmer, we could see different result. But, unfortunatly. they can’t. Nos clearly outplayed Snowball, but who gives a kitten when vM res their necro with engi, rev under mesmers distortion and your ele can’t do kitten, cause he is almost solo resing (in earth 5, rest of team gets corrupted and cced).

Again, not having a mesmer is not the excuse.
They lost to VM, not 55 rnk or TCG.
TCG and 55 rnk each had a mesmer specialist. But VM doesn’t have one.
The lost simply because they didn’t keep up with the EU teams in their play level.

Exciton.8942:

Again, not having a mesmer is not the excuse.
They lost to VM, not 55 rnk or TCG.
TCG and 55 rnk each had a mesmer specialist. But VM doesn’t have one.
The lost simply because they didn’t keep up with the EU teams in their play level.

I agree except for the last part. As you said Mesmers are good but overated, don’t need one to suceed, but if Toker was anything but a Thief they would have done lots better.

Saiyan.1704:

Exciton.8942:

Again, not having a mesmer is not the excuse.
They lost to VM, not 55 rnk or TCG.
TCG and 55 rnk each had a mesmer specialist. But VM doesn’t have one.
The lost simply because they didn’t keep up with the EU teams in their play level.

I agree except for the last part. As you said Mesmers are good but overated, don’t need one to suceed, but if Toker was anything but a Thief they would have done lots better.

I agree if duplicate profession is allowed, Astral will do better with double revenants.
But with current rule, thief is their best bet.
They did have 4 very close games with 55 rnk last tournament with a thief.

I would even go as far to say they would beat 55 and gave TCG a run if they played the super aggressive necro build last tournament. Unfortunately this necro composition is only discovered afterwards.

Saiyan.1704:

kdaddy.5431:

Mr Godlike.6098:

FiveGauge.1357:

XGhoul.7426:

Kervv farmed Chaith in 1v1s to always decap him (sometimes beat him outright and always force a +1) and they never had a good chance to replace someone in the fight to 1v1 a mesmer with a theif teamcomp so they were always kitten. If they replaced someone else to 1v1 kervv they lose out on their teamfight potential, and 55 always took advantage of that.

Yeah you’re really biased, fighting Mesmer for 3 games straight and dying once before switching to Lyssa/Sneak Gyro in the first game – that’s all well and good, Mesmer wins every other matchup on the comp we ran so nullifying moa, portal plays, and holding a point neut was not a bad outcome.

I don’t say that’s not true:) I had much more fun watching your team then PZ but still…I think you should consider Mesmer in your roster in this meta :/.

I hate that should be their option instead of anet just balancing the game. These matches are past them and the next point is moving forward balance wise.

Asking players to switch classes because the game is broken should not be happening. Chaith is easily a top 3 engy in the game. The idea that he should be forced to play a different class is a insult.

Serious question, whats the point of having all the classes if 1-3 will be the OP? ORNG in qualifiers had the best Guardian in the game and the best EU thief in game and they placed 4th because they are not the elite 3. kitten has proven to be the top guardian in NA and he wasnt useful at all. Magic toker is still considered by the many to be the best thief in the game along with Nos as the best necro. Yet they seem to have absolutely no effect in a match and even based on team comp might actually be hurting the team.

Would you suggest Anet or the ESL demand the players play the OP classes?

Honestly at this point, I feel Toker knew they were using an underperforming comp but kept thief anyways to prove a point. It’s not the first time either, shortly after HoT they did the same.

Toker is good but Thief obviously doesn’t work in this bunker/bruiser meta so, what can Anet do to fix this? Buff the toxic perma dodging staff builds?

I hope not, anything that would promote more use of the staff dodge build or the D/D dodge build i would be against but come on the idea that playing a class in a game makes the team weaker is mind boggling.

You can literally name 5-7 ESL players who wear the gold of there classes but will lose to a good player at the OP class.

During the broadcast they brought up that ROM is the best duelist in the game and followed it up by saying that helseth on a mesmer was winning the 1 vs 1 vs the druid.
Im fine with this because supposedly druid should win but when toker cant win a fight vs anyone and its not because a lack of skill but because the class is straight doo doo at ESL level.

I have no idea what the answer is and im pretty sure Anet doesnt have a clue either. Every PvP season has looked different from the other in Meta classes and style of play. Anet flooded us with mesmer/rev season 1 and necros season 2 and warriors s3 and now DH s4.

Lots of people have made threads on how to buff other things, nerf certain things, basically giving Anet the guide on a class and they didnt change anything in PvP. They nerfed ele for raids.

If toker and AA took a fall to show hey builds need a better skill cap im all for it. I do not not want Anet to go the simply route like they did on warrior. (warrior lacks sustain, so i guess we will make F1 skills spammable for heals)

apharma.3741:

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

Exciton.8942:

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

I don’t think you realize the difference of skill level between general ranked PvP and the level of play in the LAN tournaments. AA are definitely top tier PvP’ers.

I will say, however, that the classes that each respective player of AA is best at has fallen out of the meta and they haven’t been able to adjust to the HoT/mesmer comp. Chaithh had to fall back to engi, and they put up two great matches, but they are rigid when it comes to multi classing and that has definitely hurt them since HoT.

In the first season final, rnk 55 has to have Misha rerolling to necro. But they still managed to beat Astral who has probably the best necromancer in the world.

So I don’t think meta change is the excuse of not performing. They are obviously not as committed as the European teams. I guess lack of strong contenders is the biggest issue. They have slowly fallen down to PZ level recently.

Misha re-rolling necro is my point. Other teams can multi class and they benefit from it. AA are stuck with their comp, pretty much, because each respective player has much more skill with their main. Ie, Chaithh having to roll back to engi from druid. They have to play thief comp, which is at a disadvantage in the meta, because if Toker rolls to Rev, what is Phanta going to roll to? Already have wakey as ele. And nos is one of the best necros in the game. They are just in tough situations when it comes to adjusting to the meta, and it has definitely hurt them.

That’s a lack of planning or hoping ANet gave them a favourable meta. They have had months to play different classes and even different roles, phanta could have picked up druid or mesmer and let Toker be the thief or revenant as he’s very good within the role. I also don’t think Toker was that bad it’s just thief doesn’t dominate the +1 decap role like it used to. He was certainly minimising the enemy point gain from his decaps and forcing cool downs out from classes between nodes.

I feel their problem was running rev and thief as they had 2 classes in the same role while most other comps had team fighters/team support with the rev as the power damage and spiker.

cyyrix.6105:

Maybe toker on rev, phanta mes, chaith scrapper. In any case, hindsight is 20/20. It’s easy to look back and critique their plan knowing it didn’t work out.

Actually, Phanta on Rev is the most logic choice. That guy is a beast in 1v2 situation and wins that a lot. He is your far push guy.

I think Toker should play mesmer. Both thief and mesmer carry rotations hard. They play the same games. But could he do that?

Chaith on scrapper is better than druid. Chain is a cc teamfights that make sure you are able to win team fights.

So they have Druid or Mesmer to bring on their comp and one guy that play the worse class (thief) at esl level, so he is obviously need to work on some other thing to make their comp work.

Don’t forget the necro need to get babysit in fights with 2+.

Seems pretty unanimous. People don’t think they can win without a meta catering to their strengths. History shows the same.

CptCuddles.8912:

Seems pretty unanimous. People don’t think they can win without a meta catering to their strengths. History shows the same.

doesnt that go for anything competitive? Steph curry isnt that good without the 3 point line, the gracie’s got destroyed in Japan in MMA when fighters could kick and knee to the head when they are not on their feet.

Think about how muffins and toker were both thief mains. They are now either forced to play mesmer/rev or in this case force thief to work.

Its like asking shaq to make his free throws. The game should have more to it then making free throws which atm GW2 does not.

The only time they won something noteworthy they had to have a balance patch and meta tailored to the only comp they could run. Plenty of other teams have adapted but they can’t. That’s just being inadequate plain and simple.

Abjured get carried by cele amulet, yes. However, they are still the best team NA even now, the reason why every tournament they keep getting worse and worse is because there is no competition in NA, PZ and NL are the only close contenders for abjured. A team cannot get better by playing teams worse than themselves. A team can only improve by playing teams of equal or better skills level than themselves. And if a team scrims against teams worse than them long enough, their skills and rotations level will eventually regress.

This shown very clearly in how little mistakes are made on EU vs NA teams. NA rely too much on team fights while EU rely on outsmarting each others. Rotations trump mechanical skills. Abjured can’t improve themselves if there is no team equal to them, PZ and NL came close to them but they still worse than abjured. I am not fanboying abjured, I’m just putting things into perspectives, saying they are no good with cele amulet is just dumb. They can use the same “kitten” comp they used in WTS and probably will still stomp most teams on NA.