Guild Wars 2

Ignavia.7420:

The first matchup of orng vs. The Abjured was way more fun to watch than the finale. It’s like orng lost focus in those last games; they did so many blunders.

Yeah that was amazing. Especially loved the orng lord win on foefire with only a couple seconds remaining. That was one of the best games I’ve seen. And the stillness comeback play on temple as well.

Why sPvP eles don’t have enough skill play S/D?

Toker really is MVP. He did everything every other thief was suppose to do and he did it amazingly well. Decaps, rezzing, plus ones, and he barely ever died.

Junkpile.7439:

Why sPvP eles don’t have enough skill play S/D?

It’s not about skill. If you want to win a tournament, you obviously play the team comp that you think gives the highest chance of winning. But given your signature, you are trolling anyway.

Ele is too strong.

But did it matter in the context of this WTS?
Not really, every single on of them knows what’s strong and what’s not. If they can’t adapt, then that’s on them.

Congrats to The Abjured!!! Well deserved win and props for never giving up.

Gmtsai.6349:

I believe that Abjured changed their comp after they lost WTS 2 to ORnG. They found out something’s broken, they change their classes. Simple fact. The reason why they are playing double DD Eles again is because of this new patch. And everyone including themselves know that DD Ele / Nerco / Engi is broken.

Well to be fair, double ele has been extremely common in NA ESL’s, in fact the onlyteam that the abjured came even close to losing a map against (but didn’t) was Mime’s team, which ran both double pre-nerf mantra mesmer and double elementalist, yet they still won despite that team having a more brokenly OP comp at the time.

I don’t know wakkey as much, but phantaram has a ton of experience playing elementalist and is considered to be among the best in the game, it’d be strange for him not to play it. Granted in their prepatch comp they didn’t run an ele at all because shoutbow was overall better support at the time and medi-guard had overall more surivability. Now look at the trait changes, medi guard isn’t as good as it was before, and shoutbow was gutted aside from that odd settler’s build that lypion used. Yes they could have gone bunker guard and rampage warrior instead, but ele being indirectly buffed by being able to take fire seemed like a better choice.

And I also disagree that necro and engi are broken. I think necromancer is balanced in its current state, but lacks build diversity becuase you need to go cele or soldiers to stay alive as well builds and condi builds fold to focus fire too easily. And engi I’d argue as underpowered, because condis were buffed while engi still has weak cleanse, and traitline changes and power creep made cele suck for engi, so you either have to be a tanky CC support soldiers build, or go burst engi and hope mesmer/thief doesn’t look at you.

Also, as a necro main who knows the potential, and limitations of the class, its furstrating to see so many people hate on Nos, when all he’s doing is being the best player in the world at the class he mains..

nearlight.3064:

Gmtsai.6349:

I believe that Abjured changed their comp after they lost WTS 2 to ORnG. They found out something’s broken, they change their classes. Simple fact. The reason why they are playing double DD Eles again is because of this new patch. And everyone including themselves know that DD Ele / Nerco / Engi is broken.

Well to be fair, double ele has been extremely common in NA ESL’s, in fact the onlyteam that the abjured came even close to losing a map against (but didn’t) was Mime’s team, which ran both double pre-nerf mantra mesmer and double elementalist, yet they still won despite that team having a more brokenly OP comp at the time.

I don’t know wakkey as much, but phantaram has a ton of experience playing elementalist and is considered to be among the best in the game, it’d be strange for him not to play it. Granted in their prepatch comp they didn’t run an ele at all because shoutbow was overall better support at the time and medi-guard had overall more surivability. Now look at the trait changes, medi guard isn’t as good as it was before, and shoutbow was gutted aside from that odd settler’s build that lypion used. Yes they could have gone bunker guard and rampage warrior instead, but ele being indirectly buffed by being able to take fire seemed like a better choice.

And I also disagree that necro and engi are broken. I think necromancer is balanced in its current state, but lacks build diversity becuase you need to go cele or soldiers to stay alive as well builds and condi builds fold to focus fire too easily. And engi I’d argue as underpowered, because condis were buffed while engi still has weak cleanse, and traitline changes and power creep made cele suck for engi, so you either have to be a tanky CC support soldiers build, or go burst engi and hope mesmer/thief doesn’t look at you.

Also, as a necro main who knows the potential, and limitations of the class, its furstrating to see so many people hate on Nos, when all he’s doing is being the best player in the world at the class he mains..

That’s why I was saying that this game is sad because the balance team decides champion team in the game.

If this year, balance team decide to nerf ele and buff warrior, ROM will be unstoppable while phantaram just a mediocre player that plays hes own class at the high level.

4 bruisers and a shadow arts thief, esports

Gmtsai.6349:

nearlight.3064:

Gmtsai.6349:

I believe that Abjured changed their comp after they lost WTS 2 to ORnG. They found out something’s broken, they change their classes. Simple fact. The reason why they are playing double DD Eles again is because of this new patch. And everyone including themselves know that DD Ele / Nerco / Engi is broken.

Well to be fair, double ele has been extremely common in NA ESL’s, in fact the onlyteam that the abjured came even close to losing a map against (but didn’t) was Mime’s team, which ran both double pre-nerf mantra mesmer and double elementalist, yet they still won despite that team having a more brokenly OP comp at the time.

I don’t know wakkey as much, but phantaram has a ton of experience playing elementalist and is considered to be among the best in the game, it’d be strange for him not to play it. Granted in their prepatch comp they didn’t run an ele at all because shoutbow was overall better support at the time and medi-guard had overall more surivability. Now look at the trait changes, medi guard isn’t as good as it was before, and shoutbow was gutted aside from that odd settler’s build that lypion used. Yes they could have gone bunker guard and rampage warrior instead, but ele being indirectly buffed by being able to take fire seemed like a better choice.

And I also disagree that necro and engi are broken. I think necromancer is balanced in its current state, but lacks build diversity becuase you need to go cele or soldiers to stay alive as well builds and condi builds fold to focus fire too easily. And engi I’d argue as underpowered, because condis were buffed while engi still has weak cleanse, and traitline changes and power creep made cele suck for engi, so you either have to be a tanky CC support soldiers build, or go burst engi and hope mesmer/thief doesn’t look at you.

Also, as a necro main who knows the potential, and limitations of the class, its furstrating to see so many people hate on Nos, when all he’s doing is being the best player in the world at the class he mains..

That’s why I was saying that this game is sad because the balance team decides champion team in the game.

If this year, balance team decide to nerf ele and buff warrior, ROM will be unstoppable while phantaram just a mediocre player that plays hes own class at the high level.

If that was the case phanta would probably just play guardian or Mesmer both of which he is proficient with. This is why multi-classing is so important, as you never know what the devs will do as ultimately they determine what is strong. Everyone still has access to all the same tools. they just have to chose which ones they use.

Thanks to anyone who has kind words The Abjured and I really appreciate it.

Special shoutout to nearlight and infantrydiv. I really like your guys analytical posts and not just for this post you do them other times too. Though I did like the ones in this thread especially.

As most of you saw we were super hyped after we beat TCG. We scrimmed them quite a few times lately and almost never won more than we lost. Especially about 2 days before we left I think we actually went something like 0-8 in one scrim against them which wasn’t encouraging to say the least. There were some close ones but 0 wins during a scrim session is still 0 wins.

Be it the difference in lag from always scrimming on EU servers and then going to LAN, or TCGs lack of lan experience causing nerves or something, or us just playing especially well, or a combination of this and more things, we were able to come out with that win.

And I really have to thank TCG because our scrims against them helped us a ton and taught us a new way to rotate which everyone in this thread and others is noticing via toker fanboy/girling which I’ll join that club anyday. Anyways, in the past we always leave our dps middle and me and nos handle outers nodes. During WTS we started putting a tank middle/whatever node is being fought on and immediately give toker the freedom to rotate anywhere. Heck we’d often just put 1 tanky person on node to stall/die/suicide (hello plague form that thing is awesome) and the rest of us would immediately rotate away. Which was a beautiful thing to do against Tages ridiculously strong bunker guard which we would avoid fighting at all costs. We learned if Tage is in a fight we’d lose that fight 100% so we’d just let someone die/troll the node and everyone else rotate out immediately. Essentially delay tactics which TCG taught us is extremely valuable and we sort of mirrored it. Anyways, I do not think this new way of rotating is the end all be all. There are reasons we rotated the way we did before it’s just that we needed to adapt to how EU plays. Although I will say it works especially well with a necro. Necro has no mobility so if a fight looks sour we can just call for nos to die on node and the rest of us rotate and be useful. Nos can rez and +1 or fight a 1v1 at home, both of which is something Necro is extremely proficient at.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent here. Back to the main story line. So I actually heard ROM say this before the tournament and I thought the exact same thing I just didn’t discuss it with him/others until after the tournament but TCG, ORNG, and us had a sort of rock paper scissor thing going on. TCG beats us, We beat ORNG, and ORNG beats TCG. This was all based on comp vs comp knowledge and scrims vs TCG. Which ORNG heard about our scrims against TCG somehow so that’s why they had the same suspicions we did about the rock paper scissor thing cause they knew we weren’t doing so hot against TCG.

So after we beat TCG this is why we were so darn hyped. We had just beaten the rock to our scissor and had paper to fight in the grand finals. Albeit a very skilled paper that we had just lost a BO3 too. We were playing so well and we had gotten the rotating down to a T against TCG so my suspicions were we were going to ride this hype train into wins against ORNG which I had originally thought we should be beating. I just needed to confirm my suspicions. After our first win in the Grand Finals of the first Bo3 on forest those suspicions were confirmed. At this point I think we would have originally been completely exhausted knowing we had to do two whole Bo3s but the hype just kept us alive for 3 more games to take the finals. Me and Nos are typically extremely calm dudes and we both lost our voices. The hype was real.

It was really awesome meeting so many of you peeps out there in real life at the convention so thanks for that.
Shouts outs to all the competitors in WTS. We all hung out like friends and had good times before and after the tournament.

Last but not least I’d like to give a huge thank you to Grouch. That man has done more for the pvp community than we will ever know. ROM and Denshee toasted to grouch at the dinner after the tournament thanking him and it was awesome.

Grouch also wanted me to tell you all that he loves it when you whisper him about when you will get your gems. So keep that up

The sad part about EU is that, Warrior + Guardian counters Nos and is just as much of an easy mode combo as Double Ele. The game was essentially a 4v5 until Abjured learned how to out-rotate EU’s comp and take advantage of their inferior individual mechanics. Like no offense to ROM, but if you need a Guardian to be effective on Warrior then you were NEVER a good Warrior at all. That’s a big part of why ORNG lost.

GG Abjured. Well-played out-played.

What’s actually sad is that anet has buffed Mesmer so much, and yet we only saw one Mesmer out of these top three teams. To me, double ele was not surprising at all, but double guard, one was condi-guard, was surprising. Anyway, congrats to Abjured, and well deserved win there. They lost the first round, almost lost to TCG, but survived and came back strong in the final round.

Phantaram.1265:

Thanks to anyone who has kind words The Abjured and I really appreciate it.

Special shoutout to nearlight and infantrydiv. I really like your guys analytical posts and not just for this post you do them other times too. Though I did like the ones in this thread especially.

As most of you saw we were super hyped after we beat TCG. We scrimmed them quite a few times lately and almost never won more than we lost. Especially about 2 days before we left I think we actually went something like 0-8 in one scrim against them which wasn’t encouraging to say the least. There were some close ones but 0 wins during a scrim session is still 0 wins.

Be it the difference in lag from always scrimming on EU servers and then going to LAN, or TCGs lack of lan experience causing nerves or something, or us just playing especially well, or a combination of this and more things, we were able to come out with that win.

And I really have to thank TCG because our scrims against them helped us a ton and taught us a new way to rotate which everyone in this thread and others is noticing via toker fanboy/girling which I’ll join that club anyday. Anyways, in the past we always leave our dps middle and me and nos handle outers nodes. During WTS we started putting a tank middle/whatever node is being fought on and immediately give toker the freedom to rotate anywhere. Heck we’d often just put 1 tanky person on node to stall/die/suicide (hello plague form that thing is awesome) and the rest of us would immediately rotate away. Which was a beautiful thing to do against Tages ridiculously strong bunker guard which we would avoid fighting at all costs. We learned if Tage is in a fight we’d lose that fight 100% so we’d just let someone die/troll the node and everyone else rotate out immediately. Essentially delay tactics which TCG taught us is extremely valuable and we sort of mirrored it. Anyways, I do not think this new way of rotating is the end all be all. There are reasons we rotated the way we did before it’s just that we needed to adapt to how EU plays. Although I will say it works especially well with a necro. Necro has no mobility so if a fight looks sour we can just call for nos to die on node and the rest of us rotate and be useful. Nos can rez and +1 or fight a 1v1 at home, both of which is something Necro is extremely proficient at.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent here. Back to the main story line. So I actually heard ROM say this before the tournament and I thought the exact same thing I just didn’t discuss it with him/others until after the tournament but TCG, ORNG, and us had a sort of rock paper scissor thing going on. TCG beats us, We beat ORNG, and ORNG beats TCG. This was all based on comp vs comp knowledge and scrims vs TCG. Which ORNG heard about our scrims against TCG somehow so that’s why they had the same suspicions we did about the rock paper scissor thing cause they knew we weren’t doing so hot against TCG.

So after we beat TCG this is why we were so darn hyped. We had just beaten the rock to our scissor and had paper to fight in the grand finals. Albeit a very skilled paper that we had just lost a BO3 too. We were playing so well and we had gotten the rotating down to a T against TCG so my suspicions were we were going to ride this hype train into wins against ORNG which I had originally thought we should be beating. I just needed to confirm my suspicions. After our first win in the Grand Finals of the first Bo3 on forest those suspicions were confirmed. At this point I think we would have originally been completely exhausted knowing we had to do two whole Bo3s but the hype just kept us alive for 3 more games to take the finals. Me and Nos are typically extremely calm dudes and we both lost our voices. The hype was real.

It was really awesome meeting so many of you peeps out there in real life at the convention so thanks for that.
Shouts outs to all the competitors in WTS. We all hung out like friends and had good times before and after the tournament.

Last but not least I’d like to give a huge thank you to Grouch. That man has done more for the pvp community than we will ever know. ROM and Denshee toasted to grouch at the dinner after the tournament thanking him and it was awesome.

Grouch also wanted me to tell you all that he loves it when you whisper him about when you will get your gems. So keep that up

Thank you for this post. Seriously. Well spoken, intelligent, good sportsmanship.

Congrats on your win. I’ve started following GW2 tourney PvP more lately and while I credit a good bit of that to really enjoying Jebro’s shoutcasting, a lot of this comes from really good players who can both be smart and skilled in games as well as professional and awesome outside of games too.

I wish the best for you and Abjured, but I also hope that yall get some fiercer competition in NA as well. =P

I really had no favorite team, but the clear loser here is GW2 PvP.

Phantaram.1265:

Thanks to anyone who has kind words The Abjured and I really appreciate it.

As most of you saw we were super hyped after we beat TCG. We scrimmed them quite a few times lately and almost never won more than we lost. Especially about 2 days before we left I think we actually went something like 0-8 in one scrim against them which wasn’t encouraging to say the least. There were some close ones but 0 wins during a scrim session is still 0 wins.

Be it the difference in lag from always scrimming on EU servers and then going to LAN, or TCGs lack of lan experience causing nerves or something, or us just playing especially well, or a combination of this and more things, we were able to come out with that win.

And I really have to thank TCG because our scrims against them helped us a ton and taught us a new way to rotate which everyone in this thread and others is noticing via toker fanboy/girling which I’ll join that club anyday. Anyways, in the past we always leave our dps middle and me and nos handle outers nodes. During WTS we started putting a tank middle/whatever node is being fought on and immediately give toker the freedom to rotate anywhere. Heck we’d often just put 1 tanky person on node to stall/die/suicide (hello plague form that thing is awesome) and the rest of us would immediately rotate away. Which was a beautiful thing to do against Tages ridiculously strong bunker guard which we would avoid fighting at all costs. We learned if Tage is in a fight we’d lose that fight 100% so we’d just let someone die/troll the node and everyone else rotate out immediately. Essentially delay tactics which TCG taught us is extremely valuable and we sort of mirrored it. Anyways, I do not think this new way of rotating is the end all be all. There are reasons we rotated the way we did before it’s just that we needed to adapt to how EU plays. Although I will say it works especially well with a necro. Necro has no mobility so if a fight looks sour we can just call for nos to die on node and the rest of us rotate and be useful. Nos can rez and +1 or fight a 1v1 at home, both of which is something Necro is extremely proficient at.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent here. Back to the main story line. So I actually heard ROM say this before the tournament and I thought the exact same thing I just didn’t discuss it with him/others until after the tournament but TCG, ORNG, and us had a sort of rock paper scissor thing going on. TCG beats us, We beat ORNG, and ORNG beats TCG. This was all based on comp vs comp knowledge and scrims vs TCG. Which ORNG heard about our scrims against TCG somehow so that’s why they had the same suspicions we did about the rock paper scissor thing cause they knew we weren’t doing so hot against TCG.

So after we beat TCG this is why we were so darn hyped. We had just beaten the rock to our scissor and had paper to fight in the grand finals. Albeit a very skilled paper that we had just lost a BO3 too. We were playing so well and we had gotten the rotating down to a T against TCG so my suspicions were we were going to ride this hype train into wins against ORNG which I had originally thought we should be beating. I just needed to confirm my suspicions. After our first win in the Grand Finals of the first Bo3 on forest those suspicions were confirmed. At this point I think we would have originally been completely exhausted knowing we had to do two whole Bo3s but the hype just kept us alive for 3 more games to take the finals. Me and Nos are typically extremely calm dudes and we both lost our voices. The hype was real.

I heard helseth broke his shoulder can you confirm this? lol. And yes watching the great rotations was so epic to watch, i would keep seeing nos dying again and again but i was thinking the whole time that it was part of the strategy as even when tcg or orng beat your guys in some team fights, abjured was still holding more points and was still winning the score. Some people who aren’t top level pvpers think that winning fights wins games but you guys prove it wrong as there are more ways to win by rotating efficiently well played and gratz.

Thanks for the shoutout phanta, I’ll be sure to drop by your stream if you stream anytime soon!

Grats to all the teams for putting on a good show. I watched the action at a summer cottage from my minuscule phone, so I wasn’t able to get into the hype or troll the Twitch chat as much as I would have wanted to. Tiny screen is tiny.

We have three teams that are all able to take games from eachother, and the tourny really demonstrated how important form of the day and momentum are in coming out on top. The finals could have easily been ORNG-TCG or Abjured-TCG, which bodes well for the competitiveness of the WTS season ahead. When/if the Chinese scene develops to the extent that they are able to mount a serious title challenge, we can actually look forward to an entertaining second season.

Next step: leveraging the league system and the influx of new HoT players to grow the sPvP scene exponentially. The dream.

Why do people always have to try to discredit wins, in defense of their ego?
When Abjured won China, the forums exploded saying that Celestial won abjured the china wts, when TCG ran the same number of celestials on their team.

In Boston, oRNG ended up beating abjured with 3 celestial; compared to abjured’s also 3 celestial comp. Once again both teams ran 3 celestial, but no-one seemed to complain or comment at all on abjured’s loss, and how oRNG “only won because celestial and dps guard/shoutbow to counter nos bla bla”.

and now in Germany, Abjured managed to win after losing to both TCG and oRNG, and all people can say instead of congratulations, is that abjured only won because of celestial. Nothing prevented oRNG and TCG from copying Abjured’s comp. But they didn’t because they didnt think abjured’s comp was better. Nothing prevented oRNG from swapping their compositions before WTS Boston, so they changed to what they thought worked, and what they could play.

Stop discrediting a well deserved win. Every team’s comp in this wts had something going for it.
Congrats to the abjured for winning Germany, Congrats to oRNG. All of the games were intense and fun to watch, and im glad were all happy the peasant came in 3rd. (:

I said it already couple of times.
Give us the ability to create amulets ourselves by giving a pool of points with certain cap on each value and let us distribute those points.

No more whining regarding Celestial amulet, no more whining which amulet is bad or good or OP or w/e else.

If you’ll distribute points badly toward your traits, skills and weapon sets then it’s your own fault.

No more annoying this amulet wins – would be a step closer to “personal skill matters” not some technical annoyance.

Why not make system than just give all players some random spec? That would be more interesting than watch some ele spam all skill in one place and spam air auto after that.

Chokolata.1870:

I really had no favorite team, but the clear loser here is GW2 PvP.

This a million times over. It is simple ideas like this that are so frequently missed by anet.

Thanks you phanta and everybody in the WTS, you made my night of 0 sleep worth it!

The matches were spectacular, I couldn’t watch your series vs TCG but I saw the first vs oRNG and the grand finals.

You guys literally played at the best of what you can do, we always say and see Abjured dominating ESL and winning without effort, but yesterday we really saw the true level of these guys.

People were bashing noscoc(myself included) in the first matches but in grand finals I realized he was doing what we know what he can do, kitten and plus fights.

People saying ele is OP, yes it is indeed very strong right now and it needs to be toned down I agree, but what phanta and wakkey did in the WTS 99% of us would never do.
Many think Toker was the MVP but the true MVP was Wakkey, dude 1vs2 even 1vs3 vs oRNG and TCG? will anybody in this forum would able to do the 5% of what wakkey did? I don’t think so, props to him.

Chaith and Toker were splendid, I was expecting to Toker to play this well he always does but he played even better, he did what every SA thief needs to do playing the support role instead of the burst role, going for resses, disengage allies, DECAPS, and if you have enough time then plus fights.
Chaith surprised me, people always understimate him but he played as a beast, did he fail any moa? I don’t think so and even with soldier amu he was doing enough dps to pressure foes.

Thanks again Phanta for the best WTS so far.

Elxdark.9702:

Chaith surprised me, people always understimate him but he played as a beast, did he fail any moa? I don’t think so and even with soldier amu he was doing enough dps to pressure foes.

Not bashing Chaith or anyhting, but you realise that the animation on mesmer moa is far more recognisable and therefore easier to dodge than the AoE moa skill from elixir?

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

butch.8136:

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

More than deserved? Like destiny? Sounds about right from winning straight out of the losers’ bracket for a finals’ double 2-0. Man can only do so little against predestination.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Elxdark.9702:

Chaith surprised me, people always understimate him but he played as a beast, did he fail any moa? I don’t think so and even with soldier amu he was doing enough dps to pressure foes.

Not bashing Chaith or anyhting, but you realise that the animation on mesmer moa is far more recognisable and therefore easier to dodge than the AoE moa skill from elixir?

Well ya, you have a point.
But He threw the moas in the right moment(rampage, cleave, disengage) I remember that AoE moa when orng was ressing rom and all died from that play.

Velimere.7685:

butch.8136:

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

More than deserved? Like destiny? Sounds about right from winning straight out of the losers’ bracket for a finals’ double 2-0. Man can only do so little against predestination.

Huh? What?

Destiny?
They deserve the win because they played good. I didn’t know this implies destiny. English isn’t my mother tongue.

butch.8136:

Velimere.7685:

butch.8136:

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again EU fan boys can’t handle the fact that NA rocked your world. We might not have any competition but you can’t deny Abjured outplayed your best teams. Now continue with your crying about how they used “cheese” to win…and Abjured will still be carrying the trophy home.

They outplayed them.
I do feel like both TCG and Orng really underperformed too. (Which doesn’t mean it takes away from Abjured’s more than deserved win).

More than deserved? Like destiny? Sounds about right from winning straight out of the losers’ bracket for a finals’ double 2-0. Man can only do so little against predestination.

Huh? What?

Destiny?
They deserve the win because they played good. I didn’t know this implies destiny. English isn’t my mother tongue.

It isn’t mine either. I was trying to be funny; I guess I failed.

Elxdark.9702:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Elxdark.9702:

Chaith surprised me, people always understimate him but he played as a beast, did he fail any moa? I don’t think so and even with soldier amu he was doing enough dps to pressure foes.

Not bashing Chaith or anyhting, but you realise that the animation on mesmer moa is far more recognisable and therefore easier to dodge than the AoE moa skill from elixir?

Well ya, you have a point.
But He threw the moas in the right moment(rampage, cleave, disengage) I remember that AoE moa when orng was ressing rom and all died from that play.

Elixer moa is 1/2 second cast time + slow moving projectile for a fairly small radius aoe while signet moa is 1 second cast time but more range and no travel time so it is pretty balanced in that regard.

However the key thing is that it seemed like everytime Chaith threw down the moa it was at the perfect moment. On top of your example he did a great job at stopping ROM’s rampages generally only allowing him to get off one or 2 skills.

Phantaram.1265:

Necro has no mobility so if a fight looks sour we can just call for nos to die on node and the rest of us rotate and be useful. Nos can rez and +1 or fight a 1v1 at home, both of which is something Necro is extremely proficient at.

I turned down my friends 3am drunken grub run to Denny’s for WTS Friday night.

Appreciate you sharing the scrims w/ EU and backstory towards the development of your rotations. Also, I’m glad you explained the role of the necromancer. The anti-necro sentiment on twitch chat was excessive. I wanted to say things were probably going as planned with necro but twitch chat isn’t the best place to reason w/ people.

Phantaram.1265:

Thanks to anyone who has kind words The Abjured and I really appreciate it.

Special shoutout to nearlight and infantrydiv. I really like your guys analytical posts and not just for this post you do them other times too. Though I did like the ones in this thread especially.

As most of you saw we were super hyped after we beat TCG. We scrimmed them quite a few times lately and almost never won more than we lost. Especially about 2 days before we left I think we actually went something like 0-8 in one scrim against them which wasn’t encouraging to say the least. There were some close ones but 0 wins during a scrim session is still 0 wins.

Be it the difference in lag from always scrimming on EU servers and then going to LAN, or TCGs lack of lan experience causing nerves or something, or us just playing especially well, or a combination of this and more things, we were able to come out with that win.

And I really have to thank TCG because our scrims against them helped us a ton and taught us a new way to rotate which everyone in this thread and others is noticing via toker fanboy/girling which I’ll join that club anyday. Anyways, in the past we always leave our dps middle and me and nos handle outers nodes. During WTS we started putting a tank middle/whatever node is being fought on and immediately give toker the freedom to rotate anywhere. Heck we’d often just put 1 tanky person on node to stall/die/suicide (hello plague form that thing is awesome) and the rest of us would immediately rotate away. Which was a beautiful thing to do against Tages ridiculously strong bunker guard which we would avoid fighting at all costs. We learned if Tage is in a fight we’d lose that fight 100% so we’d just let someone die/troll the node and everyone else rotate out immediately. Essentially delay tactics which TCG taught us is extremely valuable and we sort of mirrored it. Anyways, I do not think this new way of rotating is the end all be all. There are reasons we rotated the way we did before it’s just that we needed to adapt to how EU plays. Although I will say it works especially well with a necro. Necro has no mobility so if a fight looks sour we can just call for nos to die on node and the rest of us rotate and be useful. Nos can rez and +1 or fight a 1v1 at home, both of which is something Necro is extremely proficient at.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent here. Back to the main story line. So I actually heard ROM say this before the tournament and I thought the exact same thing I just didn’t discuss it with him/others until after the tournament but TCG, ORNG, and us had a sort of rock paper scissor thing going on. TCG beats us, We beat ORNG, and ORNG beats TCG. This was all based on comp vs comp knowledge and scrims vs TCG. Which ORNG heard about our scrims against TCG somehow so that’s why they had the same suspicions we did about the rock paper scissor thing cause they knew we weren’t doing so hot against TCG.

So after we beat TCG this is why we were so darn hyped. We had just beaten the rock to our scissor and had paper to fight in the grand finals. Albeit a very skilled paper that we had just lost a BO3 too. We were playing so well and we had gotten the rotating down to a T against TCG so my suspicions were we were going to ride this hype train into wins against ORNG which I had originally thought we should be beating. I just needed to confirm my suspicions. After our first win in the Grand Finals of the first Bo3 on forest those suspicions were confirmed. At this point I think we would have originally been completely exhausted knowing we had to do two whole Bo3s but the hype just kept us alive for 3 more games to take the finals. Me and Nos are typically extremely calm dudes and we both lost our voices. The hype was real.

It was really awesome meeting so many of you peeps out there in real life at the convention so thanks for that.
Shouts outs to all the competitors in WTS. We all hung out like friends and had good times before and after the tournament.

Last but not least I’d like to give a huge thank you to Grouch. That man has done more for the pvp community than we will ever know. ROM and Denshee toasted to grouch at the dinner after the tournament thanking him and it was awesome.

Grouch also wanted me to tell you all that he loves it when you whisper him about when you will get your gems. So keep that up

I <3 u. thanks for being a cutie and not a neckbeard.

ArthurDent.9538:

Elxdark.9702:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Elxdark.9702:

Chaith surprised me, people always understimate him but he played as a beast, did he fail any moa? I don’t think so and even with soldier amu he was doing enough dps to pressure foes.

Not bashing Chaith or anyhting, but you realise that the animation on mesmer moa is far more recognisable and therefore easier to dodge than the AoE moa skill from elixir?

Well ya, you have a point.
But He threw the moas in the right moment(rampage, cleave, disengage) I remember that AoE moa when orng was ressing rom and all died from that play.

Elixer moa is 1/2 second cast time + slow moving projectile for a fairly small radius aoe while signet moa is 1 second cast time but more range and no travel time so it is pretty balanced in that regard.

However the key thing is that it seemed like everytime Chaith threw down the moa it was at the perfect moment. On top of your example he did a great job at stopping ROM’s rampages generally only allowing him to get off one or 2 skills.

Well he is kittening great at the game so no suprise there. I didnt see all the game, but caith didnt go down a lot afaik. He was pretty kitten good.

MagicToker said after the win why oRNG had lost.

Abjured could not win a fight when Tage was in it, Tage healed superbly and made unbelievable res. So Abjured took the fights always away from Tage with the horrible mobility of the bunker guardian, it was right thing to do.

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

But reality if D/D Ele is superior for support because of the awesome mobility.

And the all the people complaining about Ele is OP, you know after the patch Ele is lost considerable amount of healing power from attributes disappearing from trait lines and Cele nerf and major cleanse function is now in 20s CD. D/D Ele bunkering is at the moment in a worst place then it was before the patch but burning damage is out of control for all the classes that is using it.

Burning again should not be stackable more then 3 stacks and Auto Cleansing Fire should only cleanse 1 condition and give only one stack of might this will again bring Ele in line as damage wise.

D/D Ele is fine. Burning is fine.

Velimere.7685:

D/D Ele is fine. Burning is fine.

Totally.

Lol the amount of people who have posted on here taking this one WTS win as an example of US dominance….tbf it’s not like it is unexpected, it was only a matter of time.

Also I kinda agree the Ele needs to be toned down, it hasn’t been toned down properly for a long time, it’s likely to get worse when Tempest hits so Anet should get on that tout suite.

Can someone please post a link to a video of this…. I was buying a house and missed it… I need to see it .-. Can’t find it anywhere

meeflak.9714:

Can someone please post a link to a video of this…. I was buying a house and missed it… I need to see it .-. Can’t find it anywhere

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

Cheers!

It’s nice to know that a year later, people are still running around like braindead chickens (no offence to the chickens out there) winning tournaments with double d/d cele ele. SMH. #ESPORTSlol.

On a more serious note, some of the Orng and Abjured games were epic.

I just can’t stand double cele ele comps being carried by the setup over more skilled (relying on rotations and co-ordinated burst) teams like TCG. Got NO time for that. (and its not an NA v Eu thing. I hated Cheese Mode for the exact same reason, except Abjurd are 10x more kitten)

And i really wish people would stop saying what amazing players they are.

My nan can run around self sustaining herself as d/d ele on a node. It’s the total opposite of what top tier team pvp play should be about, and no one can convince me otherwise.

Don’t let these braindead cele eles tell you how amazing they are. Watch the clutch plays from thief/mes/engi and then look at the ele plays…./15chars

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Chaith.8256:

meeflak.9714:

Can someone please post a link to a video of this…. I was buying a house and missed it… I need to see it .-. Can’t find it anywhere

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

Cheers!

Ahh it’s not working!!! I’ll assume it’s just because I’m trying to do it from my phone atm. I’ll try again at hime after work, thank you so Much though!!!!! <3

Liam McColgan.7689:

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Guardian is a superior bunker to D/D Ele but lack the mobility. So if you took a Guardian you have to search team fights and if your enemy denies that you have to either adapt your strategies or bite the bullet.

And if you mean only want to have compositions bursting instantly the opposition, like 5 mesmers bursting you out of stealth.

Then sir, you do not get my vote. I am against one shot meta, or like while warrior having an awesome Elite as Rampage and Ele must live with Fiery Greatsword.

I rather prefer to survive a burst that somebody does from stealth and do something about it.

posthumecaver.6473:

Liam McColgan.7689:

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Wait a second you mean only want to have composition bursting instantly the opposition, like 5 mesmers bursting you out of stealth.

Then sir, you do not get my vote. I am against one shot meta, or like while warrior having an awesome Elite as Rampage and Ele must live with Fiery Greatsword.

I rather prefer to survive a burst that somebody does from stealth and do something about it.

Where anywhere did i say i want a 1 shot burst 5x mesmer meta? Just because i think a SINGLE d/d cele ele is op let alone DOUBLE. doesnt mean i want a 5x mesmer 1 shot meta. You are just..i dont even…..you’ve literally just made that up in your head xD

EDIT: for the record, a 5x mesmer 1 shot burst comp v 5x cele d/d eles would be 10000x more fun to watch from the mesmer point of view so again, not sure wtf you are on about dude….
At least we agree Rampage is pretty silly in its current state

Liam McColgan.7689:

posthumecaver.6473:

For whole the people giving the blame the oRNG lost because of double Ele, you know oRNG also had one Ele, they could have a 2nd one if Tage bring an Ele instead of Guardian but Tage is awesome in its Guardian so it is unfair to Tage to ask something like that.

So what you are saying is, because eles are OP, to counter/be at their level, you should stack d/d eles too? And because they didn’t, they inevitably lost.

Just stop defending the fact they stacked braindead bunkers to out comp everyone else.

Just because x counters y, it doesnt mean people have to stack x to stand a chance/win. Thats the definition of killing competition/ a competitive scene.

Read what I just said. Tage was destroying them in team fights, so they have to out-rotate them. They had Denshee to mirror an ele who will back cap, and then they have Tage in the team fights where he is SO MUCH STRONGER than either phanta or wakkey. Key word is TEAM FIGHTS, oRNG could not force it. They had the mobility which is Denshee to mirror 1 D/D ele, and then all they had to do was cap 2 points and ignore the 3rd.

oRNG had the cards to win and they showed it by putting Abjured in the lower bracket. They just played very badly on the finals. I don’t know why I have to teach rotations to a person who will NEVER understand why oRNG had the upperhand realistically.

Well thanks for the ‘lesson’. You dont even know anything about me to assume i know nothing. Your condescending attitude sucks. Of course oRNG played bad in the finals. They over extended, over rotated, focused too much on getting the down states rather than the caps and just left toker to backcap them whole series. Thats good play from the THIEF, hence why most say toker was MVP. But at the end of the day, Abjured won as the ONLY team who stacked the same bunker class and it hasn’t been the first time either. It’ just happened to be the class and amulet most people accept is op, or at the very least out of line with other builds attempting to play the same role. Their necro was also cele, and the engi has been too, up till latest patch, but i have slightly more respect in terms of those classes. Get it? No? Don’t bother replying then please. People defending cele bunker comps either play said classes or are happy with the fact running around a node is classed as skillful. I just have a different view on skill. Again, look at the ‘plays’ each class does and then tell me which requires a brain and which does not.

I think people who argue that DD Cele is not OP are delusional. Is it not a good thing for OP builds to be toned down? I really do not think anyone here wants the DD cele to be removed from the game entirely but its clear as day that the build is over performing. Every team had the class/build and the winning team had 2.

So out of 20 slots, 5 were taken by the DD cele, does this not speak for itself?

Liam McColgan.7689:

Well thanks for the ‘lesson’. You dont even know anything about me to assume i know nothing. Your condescending attitude sucks. Of course oRNG played bad in the finals. They over extended, over rotated, focused too much on getting the down states rather than the caps and just left toker to backcap them whole series. Thats good play from the THIEF, hence why most say toker was MVP. But at the end of the day, Abjured won as the ONLY team who stacked the same bunker class and it hasn’t been the first time either. It’ just happened to be the class and amulet most people accept is op, or at the very least out of line with other builds attempting to play the same role. Their necro was also cele, and the engi has been too, up till latest patch, but i have slightly more respect in terms of those classes. Get it? No? Don’t bother replying then please. People defending cele bunker comps either play said classes or are happy with the fact running around a node is classed as skillful. I just have a different view on skill. Again, look at the ‘plays’ each class does and then tell me which requires a brain and which does not.

Which class exactly require ‘brain’ for you description, stealth bursting Mesmers may be?

High end Ele play is one of most difficult ones, it has only one skill that can hit for 7K and it is on 40s CD cooldown and it is one of the most difficult skills to land in the game.

All of other skills are hitting one third of any other class attack skills. A Mesmer, Thief coming here and just saying their class require brains to play is only laughable.

Ele, engineer and necro because of the class mechanics are most complex classes to master in my opinion.

Only thing out of line with Ele at the moment compared to their tankiness is burn damage which is only there because of newly implemented burn stacking, which should not exist in this game.

A DOT that can tick for 2.5K common……

Mesmer pre patch required skill, mainly because you were forced to take 0 condi removal. Engi and necro takes skill to be at the top, i agree. But Stop defending a class that is the jack of all trades. I’m only talking about d/d cele ofc. I happen to think staff and fresh air scepter eles require alot of skill and knowledge of other classes to be effective but they simply do not exist in a competitive environment because its obviously easier and more braindead to go cele. You honestly think being effective at d/d cele ele requires the same or more skill than any other class right now? Are you sure thats what you are saying? Ask yourself why d/d cele eles are the only class being stacked right now at top tier play. It’s certainly not because they are hard to master/high skill capped.